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“You don't answer because you don't get the gas”, “you take money from the poor”: the strong intersection between Juan Grabois and Ramiro Marra - Infobae
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“No contestás porque no te da la nafta”, “vos les sacás plata a los pobres”: el fuerte cruce entre Juan Grabois y Ramiro Marra
El dirigente social y el legislador porteño de La Libertad Avanza protagonizaron un tenso debate televisivo en el que discutieron por el rumbo de la economía, el aumento de la pobreza y la corrupción en las organizaciones piqueteras, entre otros temas
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May 16, 2024
The social leader and the Buenos Aires legislator from La Libertad Avanza starred in a tense television debate in which they discussed the direction of the economy, the increase in poverty and corruption in picketing organizations, among other topics.
El final del tenso debate entre Grabois y Marra: "Sos un macho bárbaro"
El dirigente social y el diputado porteño discutieron por el rumbo de la economía, el aumento de la pobreza y la corrupción en las organizaciones piqueteras, entre otros temas
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The social leader and the Buenos Aires deputy discussed the direction of the economy, the increase in poverty and corruption in the piquetero organizations, among other topics.
Juan Grabois and Ramiro Marra transferred their conflicts on social networks to a strong television debate in which, between chicanery, insults, grievances and accusations, they exposed their antagonistic visions of country models.
The discussion between the social leader and the Buenos Aires legislator from La Libertad Avanza took place in the studios of Todo Noticias (TN) , in the program A Dos Voces , which organized the agenda to be discussed.
Immediately, the Patria Grande representative began criticizing the broker for having published a tweet in which he celebrated a drop in food prices and pointed out that this happened because "consumption fell by 17%": "This is how it is easy for prices to drop "If people don't have enough to eat, merchants don't have to sell and you triple their prices." “It was a white collar robbery through a mechanism of planned inflation, inflation was a political decision,” denounced Grabois, who defined Javier Milei's project as “an economy of dehumanization and plunder . ”
In turn, Marra highlighted that the libertarian management “began to organize the economy” with the decrease in inflation and “the financial surplus,” and held the Government of Alberto Fernández responsible “for the consequences that we suffer now.” “We avoided hyperinflation that ran at 17,000 percent. This government is supported by the society that understood the mistakes that were made, they understand who made the mistakes. You do not understand economics, you encouraged emissions that generate poverty. We avoided the catastrophe,” considered the deputy of the City of Buenos Aires.
“What Marra says is so counterfactual and ridiculous that the analysis does not hold up ,” Grabois said, raising the level of tension. “17,000% inflation? Let's not mess around. It is such a stupid fallacy to say that it is someone else's fault. What the Milei government does is the Milei government’s fault,” she added.
In this context, Marra reproached Grabois for having been part of the Frente de Todos: “You stole hope from the people, you only left poor people.”
Juan Grabois y Ramiro Marra - La pregunta sin filtro
Juan Grabois y Ramiro Marra - La pregunta sin filtro
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Juan Grabois and Ramiro Marra - The question without a filter
“I can perfectly take charge of a political project that had many frustrations. "You come from being a broker... the stock market rises because you have creditors totally convinced that they are going to privilege them at the expense of retirees," responded the social leader. To which Marra interrupted and pointed out that the deputies of Unión por la Patria “did not accompany the debate to change the retirement formula.” “Is economic policy set by the Legislative Branch? Do you want us to believe that they are lowering the pensions of the elderly because there was no debate in Congress? Your nose is going to grow, Marra ,” Grabois attacked.
For his part, the libertarian leader blamed his rival in the debate for “promoting the inflation tax”: “You sh*t on the poor . ”
After a frantic back and forth, the discussion turned to the role of the State. It was Marra who first explained that he is “in favor of the State helping people” and having “a primary role in security, justice, national defense, health and education, but for people like you who are infatuated with being a candidate for president and having public positions means that we have a critical situation for many Argentines who are given social plans.” “You don't like people to have jobs,” he said and hit Grabois for having been a pre-candidate for president “to have more organizations, more power and more control over the rest of the people.” “We are different, you want more Aerolíneas Argentinas, I want more Mercado Libre, which you hate,” Marra retorted, exacerbating the differences between the two.
It was a turning point in the debate. When his turn came, Grabois clarified that he had never held public office; he reproached the La Libertad Avanza representative for being one of the legislators who "doubled his salary": "You earn more than three bucks, with ours... you act like libertarian but you collect from people's taxes ; I don't, eh, I have lived from my private activity since I was 18, I have never held a public position.”
Then he gave his opinion on the role of the State. “The market does not save you but neither does the State. The State has to guarantee levels of dignity and equal opportunities, what the Constitution says, we do not need a Base Law or the May Pact, we already have a Constitution that establishes the rights that assist people."
“I don't have any problem with private participation, what I don't want is a regime of looting,” he added and clarified that he doesn't hate Mercado Libre: “It seems like a very good company to me, what I don't agree with is that the "The richest kid in the country has tax exemptions for more than 150 million dollars - minimum - per year ," he added about Marcos Galperín and his company.
In his minutes of reply, Marra confronted the social leader who earns “more money than three million”: “I am a businessman. Does it bother you that I win money? If you want to know what I do with my deputy salary, I'll show you, I invested it and made money. “You want to be in the middle of everything, so you intervene in social plans,” the broker questioned.
At that moment, the conversation revolved around the salary of the Buenos Aires legislator. Grabois told him that it seems “high” for “the situation we are experiencing” and “embarrassing” that they have increased it. "It's very clear to me that this guy gets paid by the State, he will have his company but he won't give it away," he criticized and called him out: "I don't think he works very hard, like one of those workers who lost their job."
Marra responded by emphasizing that he is “proud” of his work and stressed that the people chose him: “I don't force anyone.”
“You earn a salary from the State, take charge ,” insisted the former candidate for president of Unión por la Patria, inaugurating a new round trip:
- You take money from people.
- Do you have proof?
- Yes, you manage soup kitchens, social plans...
- I don't administer anything, do you have proof?
Marra mentioned to Grabois the investigation into irregularities in the management of the Socio-Urban Integration Fund (FISU), of which Fernanda Ramona Miño, a member of the Movement of Excluded Workers (MTE), was a member, a group headed by Grabois himself.
“Fallacy by association”; The leader of Patria Grande responded, “annoyed by the accusation” and asked him: “Are you associated with Espert? “Do you have anything to do with Fred Machado's drug plane with which Espert campaigned,” he expressed, reviving an old complaint against the liberal national deputy. For his part, Marra mentioned to Grabois his connection with the leader of the Polo Obrero, Eduardo Belliboni, who is being investigated in the case for alleged extortion of beneficiaries of social plans.
“If you think that's how you're going to provoke me, you're going to be more frustrated than when Karina Milei took you off the block and when they didn't give you the job you wanted in Customs,” Grabois replied. “What little stall? “I work in the private sector, I make a lot of money,” the broker responded. “I don't think you'll earn that much, don't act stupid. Do you know the category of resurrected louse?” provoked the Patria Grande representative.
In one part of the debate, the protagonists had to ask themselves an “unfiltered question.” Grabois began by asking Marra when the poverty rate “which objectively increased in this government” will be below the levels when he took office.
“You make it very easy for me. The poverty we received was from your government. Now we are entering a process of lowering inflation which is the fault of poverty, we are going to see throughout this government that there will be less poverty. It's basic. They clearly didn't understand anything about economics. Every time inflation goes down, there will be less poverty. “I do not promise dates or illusions,” responded the libertarian.
Grabois was not convinced by the answer and told him: “You're not answering because you don't have the gas . ”
In turn, Marra once again mentioned the FISU case and works that were left unfinished: “We all know that they took more than 1 billion dollars and everything was managed by Fernanda Miño, who responded to you. Are you going to take charge? Otherwise I will think that you are naive or useless. Tell me something concrete,” she pressed.
“Everything you say is a lie, obviously the works need to be completed because it is a 20-year process to urbanize popular neighborhoods. I take charge and I am proud to make Fernanda Miño visible, who did not take a cent. The FISU employees are not from the MTE or Patria Grande,” she clarified.
“If they weren't spurts, they were useless. The accounts are not clear ,” said Marra.
Coming to the end of the debate, the thematic block was street closures and anti-picketing protocol. Marra began by pointing out that “cutting a street is a crime”: “I understand that there is nothing wrong with you because you encourage the seizure of land, you get together with people who block companies, you do not respect private property,” he told Grabois. . “Luckily there is a protocol so that they do not block the street, do not commit more crimes, because it is wrong. You are not owners of public space. People voted for us to end you,” she added.
The former UxP candidate interrupted and said: “I don't know if people voted for them to end others... Patricia Bullrich's protocol is stupid that doesn't work. “When there are unmet needs, whether Marra likes it or not, there are going to be protests.”
He then referred to the Government's complaint that claims that more than half of the registered canteens do not exist. “That data but that implies that there are canteens that do exist, but they do not send them food. "If someone took money from someone to block a street or whatever, which is not appropriate, they are committing a crime, and a serious one, it has to be investigated," said Grabois.
For his part, Marra blamed him for having “played on both sides of the counter” during the previous administration: “They stole bags of food, they have no shame, and are you going to say that you have nothing to do with it? “They are your friends,” she accused.
The next thematic block was “social justice.” There Marra spoke of “irregularities” in the organizations, in the distribution of social plans, in “the boxes” managed by the piquetero leaders. However, Grabois interrupted him once again and told him that "as a television prosecutor" he would be "barbarous", but "to govern is to improve people's lives, not to repeat many lies like a parrot, and surely some truth about irregularities of the previous government." ”. In that sense, he recognized that they could have existed both in the administration of Alberto Fernández and in the current one because corruption is “systemic.” Corruption is a terrible evil but it cannot be used as an argument to destroy social rights and the State,” he considered.
Ramiro Marra a Grabois: "Te hacés el pobre"
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“Is stealing land social justice? Would you like me to come into your house? do you think it's OK? They are all the time with a narrative trap of social justice. Here we need justice but without adjectives,” Marra replied.
Grabois reproached the Government for having allied itself with Patricia Bullrich, whom Milei during the campaign called a “murderous bully.” “It bothers you because she doesn't let you take land,” Marra called him out.
“I laugh at Bullrich, he seems like a ridiculous person to me. My organization does not take land, I am totally against it,” he emphasized. “Very well, it means that we are beginning to win the cultural battle... you act poor, but you are not poor, you ate the Che Guevara movie ,” shot the Buenos Aires legislator.
The tension of the debate escalated without restraint, and in part it occurred when near the end in another “unfiltered question” Marra reminded him of an old phrase of Grabois in which he had assured that he would have gone out to steal if he had been a cardboard cutter. The social leader acknowledged that he “messed up” with the way he expressed himself and clarified that her objective was to “revalue the figure of the cartonero.”
“There is no justification for the crime but I like that you recognize your mistake,” said Milei's friend.
In the middle of the strong intersection, Grabois asked him if he was going to vote in favor of the ABL increase in the Legislature of the City of Buenos Aires. “Surely, because it is not an increase, there is an economic problem…” he tried to explain but the MTE representative interrupted him again and accused him of being “trick”: “You said you were in favor of lowering taxes,” he questioned.
“Yes to cut jobs. We will cut your jobs,” declared Marra.
“You didn't cut me anything, I'm still the same as before. You're lying. You have no proof of anything you say. You're a stupid bastard like all the libertine garcas who lie to people , except Milei who doesn't lie, he tells the truth," Grabois replied, raising his voice.
“I thought you were calmer, it's disrespectful,” said Marra, offended.
“I'm laughing at you, you're such a money bag. “I laugh at idiots like you,” Grabois counterattacked.
The debate was diluted in a back and forth of grievances, chicanery and judicial accusations.
“You don't give me respect, you seem like a strong salami to me,” replied the social leader. “You are rude, you steal from the poor,” the libertarian insisted.
While they shook hands at the end of the live debate, the discussion continued behind the camera.
