Politics anti-Milei apartment owners: i will buy your BsAs apartment, if you're leaving the country

[StatusNomadicus]

para esas personas en el lado contra Milei, si vas a salir Argentina, estoy interesado en comprar tu PH/departamento en BsAs. dime las calles y el precio, y si aceptas Cryptocurrency/Bitcoin parte o todo de la venta.

(this post may not be relevant to anyone here on this upgraded forum, but i no longer have an account on the other forum: for anyone on the anti-Milei side that is leaving the country, i will buy your apartment/PH in Buenos Aires. let me know the asking price, and if you prefer cryptocurrency/Bitcoin for part or all of the transaction)

 

[StatusNomadicus]

and regarding price per square meter, this site says 1250-1631 U$D per m2: https://thelatinvestor.com/blogs/news/buenos-aires-property

...but with prices changing so much, and the collapsing global economy before Milei takes over 10Dec2023, who knows if it's even possible to track prices. regardless, the "Venta" and "Se Vende" signs are ALL OVER Buenos Aires right now 27Nov2023. for others looking, i've seen these listed for USD, showing beds/baths, in (covered) square meters:

62K for a 1/1 PH with 25 meters (Caballito)
69K for a 1/1 apartment with 39 meters (Caballito Norte)
80K for a 2/1 PH with 69 meters (Caballito)
155K for a 2/2 apartment with 76 meters (Villa Crespo)

PH = propiedad horizontal, kind of like a townhouse i guess?

so, it looks like depending on the area and the condition/age/furnishings, people are asking 1160, 1769, 2039, and 2480 dollars per square meter...but of course a lot of these apartments/PH places have sat on the market for months or over a year, so obviously the demand isn't what they think it is. the range is pretty crazy, though. real-world 1160/sqmt and that website's 1250-1631 and stuff at 2480/sqmt and higher show that there isn't as much consistency as the housing market values i'm used to in the USA.

 

[earlyretirement]

Prices are a lot higher than those prices. There is no true MLS system like other countries. You just have to really know prices well to know what they are actually closing at.

For guidance you can go to this neighborhood map that has ALL of the neighborhoods of Buenos Aires with the approximate prices in each neighborhood: https://buysellba.com/buenos-aires-neighborhood (Click on the Learn More in each neighborhood to see prices per sq. meter)

Then you can go on Zona Prop - https://www.zonaprop.com.ar/

You can get a decent understanding of how much prices are in each neighborhood using these tools. But those prices you are quoting are way off. At least in the premium areas of Recoleta or Palermo which should be the only areas you are considering if you're trying to do an Airbnb high ROI yield rental.

 

[FuturoBA]

Prices are a lot higher than those prices. There is no true MLS system like other countries. You just have to really know prices well to know what they are actually closing at.

For guidance you can go to this neighborhood map that has ALL of the neighborhoods of Buenos Aires with the approximate prices in each neighborhood: https://buysellba.com/buenos-aires-neighborhood (Click on the Learn More in each neighborhood to see prices per sq. meter)

Then you can go on Zona Prop - https://www.zonaprop.com.ar/

You can get a decent understanding of how much prices are in each neighborhood using these tools. But those prices you are quoting are way off. At least in the premium areas of Recoleta or Palermo which should be the only areas you are considering if you're trying to do an Airbnb high ROI yield rental.

The approximate prices listed, would you say that's average or is it for something in great condition, recently built, or recently recycled/renovated?

 

[earlyretirement]

The approximate prices listed, would you say that's average or is it for something in great condition, recently built, or recently recycled/renovated?

I'd say it's pretty good quality stuff. But prices you will find are all over the place. It's NOT like the USA where we have an MLS system and we can see what prices properties officially sell for. Price fraud is rampant in Argentina so even if a price sells for $250,000 the owner might only record $175,000 as to not pay the 15% capital gains tax. But take a look at the Zona Prop listing and you can see what true asking prices are. I'm getting stuff lately for about 5% to 7% lower but many owners are firm on their pricing.

Argentina is still like the wild west so you have to make sure you have a dependable and trusted team. The most important is a good rockstar and honest and ethical Escribano. The one we use is a 2-time ex-president of the Buenos Aires Bar Association.

 

[BuySellBA]

The best deals and the best for sale units to buy now are mostly the new construction that is almost done but still has to finish out the inside. You can get GREAT deals on them. You have the benefit of having no risk if you're buying with a large reputable developer. Yet still get discounted pricing. This is the type we are mostly buying now because there is NO risk with Airbnb rentals as the short-term rentals are coded in the HOA rules so you won't have issues like other existing buildings.

 

[Rick]

Prices are starting to go up. Every year before in an election has been DEAD. This is the first year that purchases are speeding up. Now with Milei everyone is taking a look at Argentina. You know things are going to explode when all my siblings in the USA that told me I was crazy to move to Argentina are now asking me if I will manage an Airbnb if they buy one! Ha. You KNOW things are going to explode when my stingy risk adverse sister is saying she wants to buy an apartment in Palermo!

 

[IrishLad]

I started looking at some new construction that is breaking ground. Do these new construction projects normally finish on time of when they say or project?

 

[StatusNomadicus]

I started looking at some new construction that is breaking ground. Do these new construction projects normally finish on time of when they say or project?

I asked a local via email/Airbnb (who is selling his used apartment in Barrio Norte) a similar question. His response was:
"Lo bueno de eses departamentos es que son a estrenar, pero no sabemos cuando lo pueden entregar o terminar, y ademas las construcciones nuevas lamentablemente son muy malas. Igualmente son desiciones personales las de comprar un departamento nuevo o con alguno años."

that being said, he is trying to sell me a used apartment, instead of me investing in a new-build that pays U$S 300/month until it is finished, but it is a good point. although earlyretirement vouches for G&D builders, there are myriad developers/construction companies with absolutely no way to know if there will be vastly-expensive issues with the plumbing/electrical/'bones'/etc.

 

[FuturoBA]

Another realtor I spoke with in the past also specifically vouched for G&D. So I would take it they're the best in town and have been around for 40+ years IIRC.

 

[FuturoBA]

I started looking at some new construction that is breaking ground. Do these new construction projects normally finish on time of when they say or project?

Probably depends on the track record of the developer and another consideration is if they run out of money what happens, the project may not be completed or who knows if it or when it will be.

 

[Howard Stern]

Another realtor I spoke with in the past also specifically vouched for G&D. So I would take it they're the best in town and have been around for 40+ years IIRC.

ANYONE in Argentina that has been around for 40+ years knows what they are doing and reputable. No way you would make it this long not offering quality products or services. Most people fail in Argentina very quickly. Those that have been around 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years are probably the best in industry. I saw earlyretirement has been doing business since 2002 in Argentina. That tells me all I need to know about the guy.

 

[earlyretirement]

I started looking at some new construction that is breaking ground. Do these new construction projects normally finish on time of when they say or project?

No, MOST pozo properties do NOT finish on time. I've purchased hundreds of properties in Buenos Aires since 2002 and most of them finish very late. Some of them you can pretty much add on one 1 to whatever they tell you. Some are better but at least the date they tell you when they are breaking ground is never accurate. Once the building is up then yes it's accurate and they shouldn't be off unless it's a small developer and they run out of money.

I asked a local via email/Airbnb (who is selling his used apartment in Barrio Norte) a similar question. His response was:
"Lo bueno de eses departamentos es que son a estrenar, pero no sabemos cuando lo pueden entregar o terminar, y ademas las construcciones nuevas lamentablemente son muy malas. Igualmente son desiciones personales las de comprar un departamento nuevo o con alguno años."

that being said, he is trying to sell me a used apartment, instead of me investing in a new-build that pays U$S 300/month until it is finished, but it is a good point. although earlyretirement vouches for G&D builders, there are myriad developers/construction companies with absolutely no way to know if there will be vastly-expensive issues with the plumbing/electrical/'bones'/etc.

You MUST use a good developer that has a good track record. GyD I have literally purchased over 60 units in the past 21 years. They have always delivered what they said they would promise. I just spent the past week with them in planning my luxury residential tower. It will be a LOT of work but I want my new building to be ironic. Nothing like it will be in Buenos Aires.

It's hard to find good honest people that deliver what they say they will in Argentina. I simply would't buy a used apartment vs. a new one. For the biggest reason that many in the older building might restrict Airbnb or short-term rentals. The newer buildings mostly have in the HOA rules that the building will be short-term rentals. You MUST check the HOA rules before buying in BA. I'm only building in newer buildings now geared for this. I have owned in residential towers that restricted it after buying. So I learned my lessons ONLY to buy in buildings that have this allowed in the HOA rules.

ANYONE in Argentina that has been around for 40+ years knows what they are doing and reputable. No way you would make it this long not offering quality products or services. Most people fail in Argentina very quickly. Those that have been around 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years are probably the best in industry. I saw earlyretirement has been doing business since 2002 in Argentina. That tells me all I need to know about the guy.

SO true. Anyone in Argentina that has been around for more than 20+ years you know are best in class individuals or companies. It means they know how to navigate business and market conditions. They have survived over 5+ Presidents and administrations. They have great networking contacts most likely around town and also within the political circles. They have best in class banking partners. For example, the banks and private institutions that I partner with have been around in Argentina for 55 years. They aren't going anywhere.

I have been in the Casa Rosado with 2 different Presidents. Met 3 different Mayors.

Probably depends on the track record of the developer and another consideration is if they run out of money what happens, the project may not be completed or who knows if it or when it will be.

Trust me it is NOT fun when the Developer runs out of money. So the way these work is that the earlier you get in, the more money you will make. I have NEVER lost money on a Pozo property. However, keep in mind that one time I got burned. This was on a building in Recoleta on Larrea street. The Developer was M&M which is a pretty decent sized realtor and developer today. But back then in the early 2000's they were just kind of getting going. I bought 2 new units for myself on the penthouse level. I bought about 5 other units. I got a really great price.

The capital appreciation was great. I think by the time it was almost all up I had realized a 60% gain on paper. But then problems starting developing and they ran out of money. They said they couldn't finish the building unless the buyers agreed to pay 20% more than agreed on the contract. I was livid! But their attitude was kind of like, well you can walk away from the contract if you want and we'll refund all your money. Obviously I wasn't going to do that as it had already went up 60%. I made the decision to just pay the 20% more. As soon as the building was all done I flipped my units and made a 35% to 40% gain. I didn't want to have anything to do with that building after that. It left a sour taste in my mouth.

My business partner, Lucho still owns 2 units in that building that he bought with me and it's been a great rental he said. But it's a good lesson you MUST buy with a reputable builder that has a lot of experience.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

update, since i haven't had any takers since Milei has been in office now for 30-something hours, i am working on becoming the first person @earlyretirement knows that has bought an apartment/PH/house with cryptocurrency. a fun read, for any fellow Bitcoin Cash (BCH) users, on BitPay's website, shows how payments can be done fairly easily with crypto: https://bitpay.com/blog/buy-a-house-with-cryptocurrency/

(i am in talks with G&D to see if they will allow bitcoin, but the looming cloud of despair is whether or not the federal/city/province government will even allow a cryptocurrency purchase for the Escritura/title)

 

[Spend Thrift]

ANYONE in Argentina that has been around for 40+ years knows what they are doing and reputable. No way you would make it this long not offering quality products or services. Most people fail in Argentina very quickly. Those that have been around 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years are probably the best in industry. I saw earlyretirement has been doing business since 2002 in Argentina. That tells me all I need to know about the guy.

ANY company ANY where that has been around for over 40 years is not going to make it that long if they are offering a shitty product. This probably holds even more valuable in Argentina. I have only been here a little over a month and I can already see that. Most places are out to rob you blind and don't care if they work with you again.

 

[Spend Thrift]

update, since i haven't had any takers since Milei has been in office now for 30-something hours, i am working on becoming the first person @earlyretirement knows that has bought an apartment/PH/house with cryptocurrency. a fun read, for any fellow Bitcoin Cash (BCH) users, on BitPay's website, shows how payments can be done fairly easily with crypto: https://bitpay.com/blog/buy-a-house-with-cryptocurrency/

(i am in talks with G&D to see if they will allow bitcoin, but the looming cloud of despair is whether or not the federal/city/province government will even allow a cryptocurrency purchase for the Escritura/title)

Wow keep us posted. I'd be surprised if they will accept it for all of it. I asked the owner of the property I am trying to rent for 1-2 years if he would take BTC and he flat out refused and laughed at me. I just read about private bankers and maybe they will let me do that. I have a lot to learn here.

 

[earlyretirement]

update, since i haven't had any takers since Milei has been in office now for 30-something hours, i am working on becoming the first person @earlyretirement knows that has bought an apartment/PH/house with cryptocurrency. a fun read, for any fellow Bitcoin Cash (BCH) users, on BitPay's website, shows how payments can be done fairly easily with crypto: https://bitpay.com/blog/buy-a-house-with-cryptocurrency/

(i am in talks with G&D to see if they will allow bitcoin, but the looming cloud of despair is whether or not the federal/city/province government will even allow a cryptocurrency purchase for the Escritura/title)

@StatusNomadicus Please just keep in mind you MUST make sure you can show how ALL funds legally got into Argentina. Mostly when you are dealing with BCH or BTC, etc, it's not entering Argentina in "white". It CAN be ok if you can justify that amount. For example, you can bring in up to $10,000 USD each passport stamp. So if you're with someone else you can show that you entered and SAY that you came with $9,999 each. So that will cover almost $20,000. You can go to Uruguay and say you brought $20,000 more. But you have to have a plan.

Although Milei might be a kinder, gentler President for foreign transactions, there is NO guarantee the NEXT President will be the same. You ALWAYS have to assume the worst-case scenario. And under the worst-case scenario, you want to make sure that you have at least accounted on paper how you brought funds here to pay for the apartment.

At closing, NO ONE will care how you brought the funds here They just want cash. But keep in mind your liability when you go to SELL that property. Even if you don't plan to sell for a long time. You should still think worst case scenario and they will ask you to document how the cash entered Argentina. It's a bit like chess. It has to be thought out 10 steps ahead of time. That's what protected me and why I was successful in Argentina. Always mapping out a strategy to protect investors. Argentina is NOT a country to make mistakes in while paying 100% in CASH.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

BTC and he flat out refused and laughed at me

which is funny, because the Cueva folks are obsessed with USDT on the Tron TRX-20 network, which is a "stablecoin" and not true cryptocurrency (one single company controls who can use USDT on an expensive and centralized network...the opposite of the Bitcoin project)

check out https://whybitcoincash.com/ if you want to see what i've been stockpiling for years. BCH is super cool and works quickly, virtually free! (i send you $1 and you receive a full $1)

 

[StatusNomadicus]

keep in mind your liability when you go to SELL that property. Even if you don't plan to sell for a long time. You should still think worst case scenario and they will ask you to document how the cash entered Argentina. It's a bit like chess. It has to be thought out 10 steps ahead of time.

great advice for you as well, @Canada Goose when you're buying. i know my 2 experiences buying in the USA match what earlyretirement says about documenting where the money came from, but the onus is on you just for the PURCHASE closing part, never the sale (since the Title Company already did all their lien research and all that).

what's interesting in the cryptocurrency sphere is that in theory, there would never need to be any physical U$S cash, since a seller could technically just accept Bitcoin BCH and keep it (i'm "long" on BCH, compared to the expensive $5 fee per transaction version that is BTC) ... the conundrum only really happens when the seller wants to turn the BCH into physical USD, to deposit into their USD bank account. my hope is that an established payment processor like BitPay (been around many years, and i've purchased physical gold/silver/platinum/palladium bars/coins with them online, using crypto!) can just take my BCH, pay the seller in partial/full BCH or pay them directly into a USD account in Dollars, then there won't need to be any accounting of the cryptocurrency (it never entered the country; it was on the Blockchain the entire time)

time will tell! finding an expert is impossible, since it doesn't sound like anyone in the entire country has ever done such a thing (though it happens in Europe and the USA)

2022 this happened in Portugal, according to NASDAQ, so it's not a crazy idea https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/hou...oin-in-countrys-first-ever-direct-transaction

 

[Canada Goose]

great advice for you as well, @Canada Goose when you're buying. i know my 2 experiences buying in the USA match what earlyretirement says about documenting where the money came from, but the onus is on you just for the PURCHASE closing part, never the sale (since the Title Company already did all their lien research and all that).

what's interesting in the cryptocurrency sphere is that in theory, there would never need to be any physical U$S cash, since a seller could technically just accept Bitcoin BCH and keep it (i'm "long" on BCH, compared to the expensive $5 fee per transaction version that is BTC) ... the conundrum only really happens when the seller wants to turn the BCH into physical USD, to deposit into their USD bank account. my hope is that an established payment processor like BitPay (been around many years, and i've purchased physical gold/silver/platinum/palladium bars/coins with them online, using crypto!) can just take my BCH, pay the seller in partial/full BCH or pay them directly into a USD account in Dollars, then there won't need to be any accounting of the cryptocurrency (it never entered the country; it was on the Blockchain the entire time)

time will tell! finding an expert is impossible, since it doesn't sound like anyone in the entire country has ever done such a thing (though it happens in Europe and the USA)

2022 this happened in Portugal, according to NASDAQ, so it's not a crazy idea https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/hou...oin-in-countrys-first-ever-direct-transaction

For me it is super easy on this property. I just left a cash deposit to take it off the market. And then @BuySellBA is getting my Tax ID # (CDI). I had to sign a power of attorney (POA) so that they could sign the title deed closing and also manage the property when I am not here. It was one document. Then I just wired from my bank in Canada that has US dollars to the developer account. @BuySellBA structured it so I paid $0 in fees. That saved me 4%. One builder that I saw made me pay the costs to get the US dollars here. @earlyretirement told me this method is completely legal and he has been working with the banker for 20+ years.

I couldn't be happier with how easy it was and they saved me money getting it here. I always heard there was no free way to get money here to purchase a property but they helped me do it. Was very easy.

I think the only people that think crypto is cool is the people that are in it. The vast majority of the world doesn't care about it. In Argentina I don't see mass adoption of it. In fact, the numbers looks like they are shrinking. It will probably always be cash here. @StatusNomadicus why don't you just exit out of your crypto and then just deposit the funds into your bank and then wire in like I did. Seems simple, cheap and easy. Or is this some tax dodge technique?