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Economy Argentina's continued collapse by another Redditor in June 2023

Milton12

New member
Just came across this report-

How much of this is true? Looks quite worrisome. :(

"I was just here, it is true they work for visa bank cards that a foreign. But f*ck my life that was the most expensive place I've ever travelled.

They have somehow priced inflation like 6 months ahead, even with double their exchange rate it is very expensive. As the prices they decide on are so far ahead so they don't lose out on anything.

Restaurants have f*ck all food, 1/10 things on a menu they may be able to make. You can't grocery shop and cook yourself, as the super markets are down to bare essentials. Fruit and veg left rotting as the prices are soo high. It's like they are going into war rationing for a fucking blitz.

Normal brands and clothing is at least 8-9 times higher. We tried to buy an Osprey backpack as ours broke. They quoted us 1100 euros for a fuckin backpack! A jacket whilst in Patagonia?? Take a guess? 1600 USD !!!

The place is in freefall and violent crime has shot up. We saw 3 muggings in broad daylight in beunos Aires, nobody bats an eye ! The only way to get the blue dollar rate, is to exchange money with cash on the street, so they know tourists are walking around with a lot of money.

They spot you and stalk you until they find a chance. We got followed a few times, they have nothing better to do and tourists are easy picking.

Certain things are cheap, but not many places accept bank cards they take cash for everything.

Booking.com takes cash only, you arrive at a premise and the host demands you pay in the actual exchange rate though, so you pay double what the website says. Then they force you to pay their booking fees and tax on top as they don't want to register it as a booking.

They know if you disagree and cancel they get the money deposited automatically anyway so you have to agree. This happened 4 or 5 times and booking can't do anything about it.

The whole country is obsessed with having USD that they will lie steal and fucking kill for them, which make their currency weaker by the second. They've made a feedback loop and they keep pushing their currency lower, since nobody is using their currency not even their own population. Every day it's dropping, each day it's a better exchange rate on the street, so it's pointless exchanging all your money at once, as each day it gets a better rate. Leading you to spend your days just walking the streets with wads of cash. It's fucking mad max out there.

I would feel sorry for the Argentinian people, but half of them were cunts and rude the other half just want to rip you off

You aren't seen as anything but a walking wallet to them"
 
I left last month and can’t resonate with any of this post besides that petty theft is extremely common and I’m sure that’s nothing new
 
Can't help imagining this guy arriving as that vulgar gringo at Don Julio "OMG it's soooo cheap, I can literrrrrrally buy everthing on the menu and it is still cheaper than in New York, I like literrrraly own you" until he suddenly felt his real wealth wasn't so great when faced with price tags of some imported brand-name consumer goods and didn't understand how hotel pricing here works... and naturally thereafter everything else turns into war-rations, muggings and tourist scamming.
 
It's actually funny because every Argentine who I know is spending their money ASAP, going to restaurants etc, doing things they usually wouldn't do, because they want to make sure they get their money's worth before it loses value vs the dollar.
 
It's actually funny because every Argentine who I know is spending their money ASAP, going to restaurants etc, doing things they usually wouldn't do, because they want to make sure they get their money's worth before it loses value vs the dollar.
“The boom, in a way, is a facade. Everyone seems to be having a good time. Yet in much of the country, Argentines are barely surviving and hunger is on the rise. And in the more affluent circles, the fever to go out is a symptom of the decline of the middle class that, unable to afford large purchases or trips, chooses to live in the here and now because they do not know what tomorrow will bring or if your money will be worth anything”, considered the article.

Same thing happens in Lebanon... Have a little cash. Can't really save. Can't put it towards your xmas dinner or summer holidays. Can't afford a new car. Can't afford a new home. Can't afford hefty services like private schools or healthcare plans like you could before. Can't afford a trip or shopping abroad... the only thing left to do is spend what you have "leftover" (or more precisely, what doesn't reach what you'd otherwise want or need be spending it on to add real value to your life).

Also many wage/ salary earners here put their night out on the credit card to lock-in the price and hope that when it comes time to pay it, hope like hell that their wages/ salaries will have increased with paritarias or that their bank increases their limit.

 
That article is mostly BS. I've been coming down to BA since the big crash at the end of 2001. YES the economy is shitty. But then again, it's always been pretty shitty. I don't think long-term Argentina can ever get itself out of this mess.

Actually I'm really surprised because things before were always much more expensive than the USA but something really shocked me this trip the past few weeks. I went into the big New Balance store in Palermo Soho and I was shocked that many of the shoes are actually less than the USA. My son wanted some shoes and in the USA with sales tax it was about $120 US. Here they were $85 US at the blue rate.

My wife saw some Golden Goose shoes that are $550 US in the USA that she said she saw here for about $375 US. I've never before seen this before.

Restaurants are still all packed with tourists but also wealthy locals. You have to remember that many locals are very wealthy (no matter what is going on with the local economy). And with these wealthy locals that have their funds stored in US dollars, they have even more to spend.

Case in point, my HOA fees on a few apartments that I own are less today in US dollar terms than 15 years ago. Even with inflation.

Restaurants are MUCH cheaper than the USA now. Been dining out about 2 or 3 times a day with my family and prices are at least 3 times cheaper than the USA. Uber's while very convenient are more than taxis now but still generally less than 3,000 pesos to go from Recoleta to Palermo Soho with surge pricing. Taxis are about 1,700 pesos for the same ride.

I've found a lot fewer taxis vs. a few years ago. And some things are just super crazy cheap compared to the USA. My daughter had her nails done and in the USA it's almost $100 US and today I paid about $17 US (8,000 pesos).

My wife and I got a 1 hour couples massage which is about $250 US in the USA. Today we paid $21 US (10,000 pesos). So some things are just crazy cheap compared to the USA.

For an expat you can have a crazy good life here so that article is totally bogus.

FYI if you're in Palermo and want a good money exchange place there is one right in front of Plaza Serrano at Serrano 1563. It looks like it's a government regulated office. 480 pesos to $1US yesterday. Very convenient if you're staying in Palermo Soho.
 
This article or whatever it is, is pure BS. Argentina got great standards of life. You get great food, great medical, great gym/sports, great social life at a fraction what it’d be in the US! Also; there’s no way to compare Argentina to Lebanon. That’s something like apples to light bulb. Punta is packed by Argentines. Pinamar, Carilo is packed with locals that you have to reserve tables well ahead. People from other SA countries migrating to AR to have a better life and opportunities. So are the people from many other parts of the world. No working professionals sleeping in their cars because they can’t afford the rent. They may complain a lot but they also enjoy themselves. I had a dermatologist consultation where I paid $5 including the medication. There are many great restaurants full of people. Argentina is a true democracy where you can experience the ultimate personal freedom! Massive resources that they can feed the world. To be frank; if I were the EU I’d invite Argentina to join the EU. AR would be a huge added asset to the EU with its natural and human resources! Also a round Of golf in the municipio is like $3 or so.
 
It's a good place to live if your earnings put you in the top say 1% which with a dollar income isn't difficult.

For the average Argentine it's surely a bit of a grind and getting worse every year.
 
Top 1%! :) if one got an income equal to the income of top 1% of the Argentines then why would they live in Arg leaving their own countries? Top 1% of Argentines are all multi millionaires and some billionaires! A teacher in Argentina living a better life than a teacher in the US!
 
Let’s put it this way. People who live in most of the western BA, these are Puertt Madero, Recoleta, Palermo, Belgrano, are millionaires. The property they own is around half a million at least plus the Country houses in pilar etc. it’s a city of 14 million so you do the math! Also; Vicente Lopez, Martinez, Olivos! I can guarantee you that everyone living in Nordelta is a multi millionaire! A population of around 40.000. And I’m not counting in the people in other cities. I know it’s hard to believe but I have been going down there since 1996 and married to one and the amount of money they got is unbelievable! They’re saying there’s at least 100k properties owned by Argentines in Florida. There’s economic problems in Argentina for sure like many other places. But there’s a lot of Argentines with a lot of money. I’m talking about the cash and the assets! So my brother; coming from somewhere in North America or Europe and thinking that this person will be in the upper 1% in Argentina by default would be a big insult to this country!
 
I don't think anyone is saying it's easy for locals because it's clearly not. No one is saying it's a paradise.

However, the points he made are clearly wrong. I dine out about 3 times a day and most places have everything on the menu. Yes, if something sells out then it's not available but most things are available. His "1 out of 10 things on a menu isn't available" is wrong.

He says you can't go to grocery stores as they are down to bare essentials. That's just a lie. Tons and tons of things. He says "fruits and vegetables rotting" is just not the case when you go to all the neighborhood fruit stores. Tons of stuff that is fresh.

One thing that I don't dispute is when he says crime rates have gone up. I agree that's probably the case but I don't notice it more than years ago although I'm sure it is higher now.

Booking.com doesn't "only take cash". That's clearly wrong. Sites like that or Airbnb all take credit cards.

He is saying that "half of the locals are cunts and rude and the other half just want to rip you off". That's just not the case. This guy sounds like a total jerk and my guess is anywhere he goes he has issues.

The typical person won't have this experience in Argentina. I think that's the point that we are making.
I don't think anyone is saying it's any paradise but I think we can all agree it's nothing like he is saying.

Everyone thinks that the USA is some glorious place where life is really easy and full of opportunities. Yes, it's full of opportunities but its also bloody expensive. I have a lot of family that moved to the USA as they thought it would be great. Many of them have 2 or 3 jobs just to make ends meet. They make a lot more than they did in Buenos Aires, but life is also much more expensive in the USA and they don't have much of a quality of life. I honestly think they had a better quality of life in Buenos Aires making relatively nothing compared to their making now but they have to work much harder just to pay bills.
 
It's not easy for locals of course, but people who have decent stable professional jobs still do well earning in pesos. Travelling, buying stuff like electronics, cars, etc, that's where it gets expensive. I know many people - teachers, designers, lawyers, programmers - all of them do fine even with the inflation, though they all wish they had more capacity to save.
 
It's not easy for locals of course, but people who have decent stable professional jobs still do well earning in pesos. Travelling, buying stuff like electronics, cars, etc, that's where it gets expensive. I know many people - teachers, designers, lawyers, programmers - all of them do fine even with the inflation, though they all wish they had more capacity to save.
Yes, same as me. Where my local friends really are hurting is previously in years past they traveled quite a bit abroad. Now, most of them don't go outside of Argentina too often. Flight prices are crazy expensive after COVID. Plus, it's just expensive for them now.

I agree, most of the local friends that I have aren't able to save much if anything at all. However, many of them managed to scrape together enough money to buy their own place with help from family or by living at home with their parents until they were married. Now, their monthly expenses aren't too bad as they have no rent.

The really smart ones were those that bought PH units many years ago. They always told me that they didn't want to get stuck in a situation with high HOA fees. And now they pay NO monthly HOA at all.

Even my friends that rent manage to get by ok. And I recently had an in-law that is going to medical school here in Palermo and she moved from another country. She is renting a place in Villa Crespo for $425 US dollars per month with ALL expenses including internet and all utilities. That's pretty darn good for as high a calibre city as Buenos Aires.

Try going to the USA in a top tier busy city and rent a decent place and you'll be shocked how bad it is now.
 
Let’s put it this way. People who live in most of the western BA, these are Puertt Madero, Recoleta, Palermo, Belgrano, are millionaires. The property they own is around half a million at least plus the Country houses in pilar etc. it’s a city of 14 million so you do the math! Also; Vicente Lopez, Martinez, Olivos! I can guarantee you that everyone living in Nordelta is a multi millionaire! A population of around 40.000. And I’m not counting in the people in other cities. I know it’s hard to believe but I have been going down there since 1996 and married to one and the amount of money they got is unbelievable! They’re saying there’s at least 100k properties owned by Argentines in Florida. There’s economic problems in Argentina for sure like many other places. But there’s a lot of Argentines with a lot of money. I’m talking about the cash and the assets! So my brother; coming from somewhere in North America or Europe and thinking that this person will be in the upper 1% in Argentina by default would be a big insult to this country!
For sure there is a lot of wealth in Argentina. But I don't think you can lump in most of the people in Puerto Madero, Recoleta, Palermo, Begrano as "millionaires". You have to strip out the principal property they live in. You have to remember that many of these properties (besides Puerto Madero which is relatively new) are properties that have been passed down from generation to generation.

I know a ton of people that inherited properties in these areas but they are far from millionaires. Remember that with a non-functional banking system, Argentines didn't really have anywhere to put their money. Sure, many had bank accounts in USA, Uruguay and Europe. But many just preferred to put their net worth into real estate. LOTS of properties are owned by Argentines that just didn't want to have cash sitting in their house. Safest long-term asset in Argentina. People use real estate as piggy banks.

But many owners in many of these neighborhoods you mentioned, bought their properties when they were very cheap. Many are far from millionaires let alone multi-millionaires. But I do agree with you that many of these locals have a high net worth. I always assume conservatively say at least 10% of the Greater Buenos Aires area are very wealthy. In an area of 15+ million people, that is a lot of people with a lot of money.

But many are "house rich" and "cash poor".
 
For sure there is a lot of wealth in Argentina. But I don't think you can lump in most of the people in Puerto Madero, Recoleta, Palermo, Begrano as "millionaires". You have to strip out the principal property they live in. You have to remember that many of these properties (besides Puerto Madero which is relatively new) are properties that have been passed down from generation to generation.

I know a ton of people that inherited properties in these areas but they are far from millionaires. Remember that with a non-functional banking system, Argentines didn't really have anywhere to put their money. Sure, many had bank accounts in USA, Uruguay and Europe. But many just preferred to put their net worth into real estate. LOTS of properties are owned by Argentines that just didn't want to have cash sitting in their house. Safest long-term asset in Argentina. People use real estate as piggy banks.

But many owners in many of these neighborhoods you mentioned, bought their properties when they were very cheap. Many are far from millionaires let alone multi-millionaires. But I do agree with you that many of these locals have a high net worth. I always assume conservatively say at least 10% of the Greater Buenos Aires area are very wealthy. In an area of 15+ million people, that is a lot of people with a lot of money.

But many are "house rich" and "cash poor".
Hello, great to read what you got to say. You’re technically saying the same thing I do! All I was trying to say; it’s an inaccurate or for some others humiliating opinion to think that you will arrive and be in the upper 1% financially! Be it inheritance or earned money, there are a lot of wealthy people in Argentina and a foreigner who has similar money to be in the 1% wouldn’t need to move to Argentina as they would be very fine back home unless they have a different kind of bond with Argentina like family, business etc. Most people move to AR to have a better life for less. I know a lady who has $1500/month coming in and she is very happy to be in BsAs. Another guy getting $2000/month rent from his Ohio property and he is happy here and living a good life. But they’re nowhere near the %1 and should they live the same life back home they wouldn’t be in AR.
 
Hello, great to read what you got to say. You’re technically saying the same thing I do! All I was trying to say; it’s an inaccurate or for some others humiliating opinion to think that you will arrive and be in the upper 1% financially! Be it inheritance or earned money, there are a lot of wealthy people in Argentina and a foreigner who has similar money to be in the 1% wouldn’t need to move to Argentina as they would be very fine back home unless they have a different kind of bond with Argentina like family, business etc. Most people move to AR to have a better life for less. I know a lady who has $1500/month coming in and she is very happy to be in BsAs. Another guy getting $2000/month rent from his Ohio property and he is happy here and living a good life. But they’re nowhere near the %1 and should they live the same life back home they wouldn’t be in AR.
Yes, I think we're both on the same page. Definitely lots of wealthy here. That's for sure. It's evident on how packed the restaurants and bars are no matter how bad the economy is.

I think most of vast majority of the ex-pats from other countries are NOT wealthy back in their home country. After all, those wealthy people don't care as much about cost of living or the price of things. They are insulated. The ex-pats I notice here in BA for the most part (and for the past 20+ years of working and living here) have been people that are retired living on pensions or social security, divorcees that might have previously had more disposable income but now have to cut back. Or people just trying to have a good quality of life without breaking the bank.

Just as many expats have no idea how bad it is for many Argentines. Probably the same % have no idea how good it is for many many locals here.
 
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