Newcomer My wife (Argentinian) claims you can live "well" on $1500 a month in Argentina. True?

[Frisel]

I've reviewed a number of scary threads on here about how terrible it is to live in Argentina, and in BA in particular. And that it is also actually pretty expensive. My wife is Argentinian, we currently live in the US in a major city, and she *really* wants to move back to Argentina now that she is pregnant because she wants the child to be Argentinian and grow up around her family. I've been to Argentina about 5 times over the past two years and, while it has its faults and certainly lacks the convenience of the US (and recognizing I have actually not lived there), I've never had a meaningfully negative experience there. On the other hand, I don't have a particularly strong desire to move there, and while I could work remotely, my income as an independent contractor in my field would be substantially less -- maybe $5000-$6000 per month at best, and I would lose US health insurance and a 401k.

Anyway, my wife claims you can live just fine for $1500 a month. Everything I've read here though suggests the number is more like $4000. Curious as to anyone's more recent thoughts.

 

[MenClerk]

the $1500 is not even enough to cover a monthly rent for a 2 bedroom apartment in a decent barrio, unless you luck out by some miracle. The rest depends on the lifestyle you want to have - car / no car, buses / taxis, eating out / cooking at home, private school / public school, etc etc etc.
3 people can comfortably live on another 1000 bucks a month, but if you don't want to count every penny add an extra 500. That doesn't include medical coverage, as the cost depends a lot on the level and company you choose. The dollar doubled in the past 4 months and the inflation hadn't caught up yet, and almighty himself doesn't even know how the dollar is going to behave tomorrow, let along a year from now, so the cost of living here will vary wildly...The considerations should be other than money in the first place - the lack of basic conveniences you take for granted in US, safety, access to a decent education, nightmarish red tape, terrible customer service and everything else our little community is incessantly complaining about here. Those of us who have been living here for a long time are used to tolerate the inconveniences, but moving here when you are young and expecting a baby would be a big disadvantage...My 3 cents.

 

[earlyretirement]

t's all relative and subjective. "Living good" to one person means something totally different to another person. The problem with Expats is many are accustomed to a certain lifestyle in their home countries and it's difficult adjusting when in BA. Many of my employees in BA have a much simpler life. Many live at home until they are married. They don't have many bills.

But life there adds up. I can't see anyone really having a decent life with kids and only making $1,500 US a month.

 

[Lenono]

My wife and I (no kids, just two cats) live in Recoleta. We don't rent because we own our apartment and we have no car. We have spent on average per month $3300 this year, and that does not include any money for travel. We have health insurance that we really like, but not with the top providers. We eat out some (once or twice a week). It all adds up, but life here is cheaper than in the States. Safety is one of my biggest concerns, but not big enough that I will leave. We really like it here (most days, anyway).

 

[earlyretirement]

My wife and I (no kids, just two cats) live in Recoleta. We don't rent because we own our apartment and we have no car. We have spent on average per month $3300 this year, and that does not include any money for travel. We have health insurance that we really like, but not with the top providers. We eat out some (once or twice a week). It all adds up, but life here is cheaper than in the States. Safety is one of my biggest concerns, but not big enough that I will leave. We really like it here (most days, anyway).

The biggest benefit is you own your own place. Rental or housing costs in a nice apartment in the Capital would be most people's biggest expenses. I totally agree if you own your own place it's much easier but still your number of $3,000 to $4,000 per month is accurate. That's about what my friends there spend with no kids but including a bit of travel around Argentina.

My friends here that have kids are really suffering as they are sending their kids to private schools and complain prices keep going up.

 

[NigjeFs]

After reading this post, I am starting to seriously question my own numbers. My background is middle - middle class ( own apartment, car, travel one month during the year, private insurance, private school ). My husband moved here about 15 years ago. We live on 2500 usd a month and we save and invest the rest. It has always been like that since we have been together. We are two adults and a child. We live in Recoleta. In general we are somewhat frugal by choice: we like to go to parks, fairs, walks, museums, etc. I cook 90% from scratch ( as I think it is healthier ) and I am very picky when I decide to give my money to a restaurant. We do not have fun " shopping " for stuff we won't use, and we do not get bored when we are not shopping ( I know that for a lot of people this is very important and is almost cultural ). We live in a building with central services and 24 hs security, own a car and keep it in a garage. I guess we all live differently. Note: this budget does not include travelling abroad.

 

[earlyretirement]

After reading this post, I am starting to seriously question my own numbers. My background is middle - middle class ( own apartment, car, travel one month during the year, private insurance, private school ). My husband moved here about 15 years ago. We live on 2500 usd a month and we save and invest the rest. It has always been like that since we have been together. We are two adults and a child. We live in Recoleta. In general we are somewhat frugal by choice: we like to go to parks, fairs, walks, museums, etc. I cook 90% from scratch ( as I think it is healthier ) and I am very picky when I decide to give my money to a restaurant. We do not have fun " shopping " for stuff we won't use, and we do not get bored when we are not shopping ( I know that for a lot of people this is very important and is almost cultural ). We live in a building with central services and 24 hs security, own a car and keep it in a garage. I guess we all live differently. Note: this budget does not include travelling abroad.

That's awesome you can get your budget down so low. The biggest difference I see from reading your post and all the people that I know there is no matter how bad things get it seems like they are always eating out. Medialunas in the morning, coffees throughout the day, and dinner out quite a bit. I'm always surprised how often most of them eat out no matter how bad they seem to be doing financially.

For my monthly cost of living spreadsheet I include all of these things. Many people forget to include everything and think they are spending less than they are because they don't include everything.


Monthly Cost of Living


-Mortgage or Rent (if you don't own outright)
- Property taxes if you own
-Phone (Land line and Cell phone)
- Utilities (gas, water, electricity, cable, internet, etc)
- HOA fees/expensas each month
- Maintenance and repairs (if you own a property)
- Car payments
- Car insurance
- Auto Fuel each month for each car
- Registration fees for your car each year
- Maintenance on your car to include car washes and oil changes
-Parking (various times when you're out and about plus if you don't have a garage in your apartment and have to rent one)
- Home/rental insurance for your property
- Life insurance
- Health insurance premiums
- Dental insurance premiums
- Medical/Dental expenses (what insurance won't cover)
- Prescription medications
- School expenses for kids (tuition, stuff for school, ballet classes, etc)
- Babysitter expenses
- Annual fee for Credit Cards
- Clothes for kids and yourself
- Toys for kids
- Dry Cleaning
- Health club / gym
- Taxi/Uber fares which are inevitable.
- Beauty (hair salon for hair cuts, color, nails, make up, etc)
- Extracurricular activities dues/fees
- Entertainment (movies, theatre, plays, Zoo, concerts, sporting events, etc --)
- Magazine/newspaper/Ipad subscriptions
- Dining out at restaurants
- Grocery budget
- Retirement savings contributions
- Kids college fund savings contributions
- Charity/donations
- Travel / vacation expenses
- Federal/State/local income taxes
- Any revolving debt payments you might have
- Bad habit type stuff (alcohol, smoking, etc)
- Emergency savings fund for any major health issues
- Non reimbursed office/work expenses and supplies


Many people if they are living alone and own their own place and don't have any kids can get away with not spending a lot. But the wild card for me is having several kids. Kids aren't cheap.

 

[SerchMinm]

My wife and I (no kids, just two cats) live in Recoleta. We don't rent because we own our apartment and we have no car. We have spent on average per month $3300 this year, and that does not include any money for travel. We have health insurance that we really like, but not with the top providers. We eat out some (once or twice a week). It all adds up, but life here is cheaper than in the States. Safety is one of my biggest concerns, but not big enough that I will leave. We really like it here (most days, anyway).

3,300 USD? More than double the U$S 1,500 figure and you OWN. You have no car; you have second tier health insurance. You imply that you spend modestly and don't mention children. One has to conclude from your comments that Fiscal would need a lot more since he presumably will have to rent and eventually will have steep private school bills. He may or may not want a car. Churchill is unfair in saying that expats here are being negative. I have known expats who, for personal reasons, have lived very modestly (like lower middle class or middle class Argentines) for personal reasons. For example, one woman had to stay in Argentina as she was divorced and the father would not allow the son to leave the country. She had few job opportunities but with the help of parents from abroad and the little income she earned, she was able to stay but her standard of living would be considered very basic in her own country. Others married Argentines of varying backgrounds. I know expats from countries like the UK, Canada and the US who married Argentines of different economic/social backgrounds. One who married into a wealthy family had an easy life but last time we spoke he was bored and wanted to return to his home country however the wife would not permit it. Others married partners from the middle or lower middle classes and have been struggling to make ends meet. In all cases that I know it has been the wife who was very attached to her family and unwilling to leave. These expats have settled down and adapted to Argentina and the way of life here. It can be done but it means flexibility, adjustment and a willingness to go with the flow which equates to unpredictability, instability and in most cases a lower material standard of living. While I'd say that U$S 1,500 is not realistic, double that amount might be if adjustments are made but Fiscal will have to understand what he's getting into. And there will be tax issues as well. If he's a permanent resident with a family he will have to justify where his money comes from. He should talk to an accountant familiar with expat issues in Argentina and the US. None of this is being negative. It's being realistic. Fiscal is talking about uprooting a FAMILY, not a solo lark in an interesting city.

 

[Frisel]

3,300 USD? More than double the U$S 1,500 figure and you OWN. You have no car; you have second tier health insurance. You imply that you spend modestly and don't mention children. One has to conclude from your comments that Fiscal would need a lot more since he presumably will have to rent and eventually will have steep private school bills. He may or may not want a car. Churchill is unfair in saying that expats here are being negative. I have known expats who, for personal reasons, have lived very modestly (like lower middle class or middle class Argentines) for personal reasons. For example, one woman had to stay in Argentina as she was divorced and the father would not allow the son to leave the country. She had few job opportunities but with the help of parents from abroad and the little income she earned, she was able to stay but her standard of living would be considered very basic in her own country. Others married Argentines of varying backgrounds. I know expats from countries like the UK, Canada and the US who married Argentines of different economic/social backgrounds. One who married into a wealthy family had an easy life but last time we spoke he was bored and wanted to return to his home country however the wife would not permit it. Others married partners from the middle or lower middle classes and have been struggling to make ends meet. In all cases that I know it has been the wife who was very attached to her family and unwilling to leave. These expats have settled down and adapted to Argentina and the way of life here. It can be done but it means flexibility, adjustment and a willingness to go with the flow which equates to unpredictability, instability and in most cases a lower material standard of living. While I'd say that U$S 1,500 is not realistic, double that amount might be if adjustments are made but Fiscal will have to understand what he's getting into. And there will be tax issues as well. If he's a permanent resident with a family he will have to justify where his money comes from. He should talk to an accountant familiar with expat issues in Argentina and the US. None of this is being negative. It's being realistic. Fiscal is talking about uprooting a FAMILY, not a solo lark in an interesting city.

It's not really uprooting a family because my wife has not lived in the United States for that long and the child hasn't been born yet. But it would severely impact my career as I would have to quit my job and get one that pays less (potentially $100K or more less) that allows me to telecommute. I do not have a strong desire to live in Argentina, but my wife does. She loves her country, wants to be close to her family and friends, and really hates the United States and what she perceives to be a more material, colder culture. I am trying to figure out if it can work financially and her primary argument is that it is substantially less expensive to live well in Argentina than in the United States.

 

[AmirJacks]

It's not really uprooting a family because my wife has not lived in the United States for that long and the child hasn't been born yet. But it would severely impact my career as I would have to quit my job and get one that pays less (potentially $100K or more less) that allows me to telecommute. I do not have a strong desire to live in Argentina, but my wife does. She loves her country, wants to be close to her family and friends, and really hates the United States and what she perceives to be a more material, colder culture. I am trying to figure out if it can work financially and her primary argument is that it is substantially less expensive to live well in Argentina than in the United States.

If I were in your shoes I'd do everything possible to have the child born in US. For one thing hospitals here are nowhere as clean as in NA. Even the private ones. And if your child decides to make US his home country once he is grown up, having a US birth certificate would make his life much much easier. I can relate to your wife's feelings, but being Argentine she completely underestimates the huge advantages developed countries have for a young person starting their career...Not only income wise, but more important opportunities wise. Family ties and social support have a huge weight, but the job market for professionals here is a joke. It's all long ways away of course, but it's all has to be considered.

 

[Fetiches]

If I were in your shoes I'd do everything possible to have the child born in US. For one thing hospitals here are nowhere as clean as in NA. Even the private ones. And if your child decides to make US his home country once he is grown up, having a US birth certificate would make his life much much easier. I can relate to your wife's feelings, but being Argentine she completely underestimates the huge advantages developed countries have for a young person starting their career...Not only income wise, but more important opportunities wise. Family ties and social support have a huge weight, but the job market for professionals here is a joke. It's all long ways away of course, but it's all has to be considered.

Problems with cleanliness were not my experience when my son was born here (in a private hospital). Everything went extremely well except that there was not a regular maternity room available right away. My wife still slept in a private room though, and I got lucky and slept on the floor next to her. Next morning we were given a private maternity room.

As for the birth certificate, any child of a US citizen born here gets a US birth certificate for the child if you follow the procedures to report the birth correctly. My son has both a US birth certificate and passport as well as an Argentine birth certificate and passport.

 

[earlyretirement]

Problems with cleanliness were not my experience when my son was born here (in a private hospital). Everything went extremely well except that there was not a regular maternity room available right away. My wife still slept in a private room though, and I got lucky and slept on the floor next to her. Next morning we were given a private maternity room.

As for the birth certificate, any child of a US citizen born here gets a US birth certificate for the child if you follow the procedures to report the birth correctly. My son has both a US birth certificate and passport as well as an Argentine birth certificate and passport.

I agree with this post. I had children born in Buenos Aires and born in the USA as well and the hospital was by far superior in Buenos Aires vs. the USA. If you have great health insurance (OSDE, Swiss Medical, etc) you should have a really good experience as the nice private hospitals there are as good or better than in the USA.

And this poster is correct that you can easily get your child a USA passport and Citizenship even if they are born in Buenos Aires. No problem at all. My kids have both Argentine passport and US passport and dual citizenship.

 

[MarketJule]

I agree with this post. I had children born in Buenos Aires and born in the USA as well and the hospital was by far superior in Buenos Aires vs. the USA. If you have great health insurance (OSDE, Swiss Medical, etc) you should have a really good experience as the nice private hospitals there are as good or better than in the USA.

And this poster is correct that you can easily get your child a USA passport and Citizenship even if they are born in Buenos Aires. No problem at all. My kids have both Argentine passport and US passport and dual citizenship.

Hmm , if that's the case then maybe the parents of the cases I know didn't follow the proper procedures somehow, I'll have to see if I can ask more details...

If the child can easily get USA citizenship with one USA parent despite being born abroad then that'd be great though!!

Hopefully the OP can double check the details with the relevent US authorities etc.

 

[SerchMinm]

Of course if the child is born in Argentina he won't be able to be President of the USA!

 

[earlyretirement]

Hmm , if that's the case then maybe the parents of the cases I know didn't follow the proper procedures somehow, I'll have to see if I can ask more details...

If the child can easily get USA citizenship with one USA parent despite being born abroad then that'd be great though!!

Hopefully the OP can double check the details with the relevent US authorities etc.

Yes, they probably did something wrong because ALL of my friends that had one American and one Porteño that had kids born in Buenos Aires ALL got their kids US citizenship easily just as we did. After the child is born you just have to get the Consular Report of Birth Abroad form filled out. (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/birth-abroad.html ) And at the US Embassy in Buenos Aires you can also apply to get their social security card for them as well as their passport. All was very efficient and quick. The US Embassy is really fantastic in Buenos Aires.

I got to know them well and I processed my wife's application for US Permanent Residency as well via their office and it couldn't have been easier on that as well. All of these things above didn't take more than a few weeks to get which I was amazed about! I got their social security cards super quick!

Of course if the child is born in Argentina he won't be able to be President of the USA!

That's true! Only my kids born in the USA can be president. We joke about that with our kids born in Buenos Aires.

 

[RinderHerts]

Not to be a spoilsport, but check the laws regarding custody of a child born in Argentina should you separate from your wife in the future. Your child may not be allowed to travel until adulthood if she does not allow it.

 

[earlyretirement]

Not to be a spoilsport, but check the laws regarding custody of a child born in Argentina should you separate from your wife in the future. Your child may not be allowed to travel until adulthood if she does not allow it.

Yeah but realistically even if your child gets US citizenship and the mother (Argentine) who lives with the child doesn't want the child to travel, you're going to have a really difficult time. That doesn't matter if the child is a US Citizen or not because they will also be an Argentine citizen and if she lives in Argentina she will have the upper hand. As I've mentioned many times, the judicial system there doesn't really work.

So keep that in mind as well. Really there is NO reason why you wouldn't immediately get US citizenship for your child ASAP they are born there.

 

[Mart]

Children born overseas (unless on a US military base aren't considered "natural born citizens". So probably no on the presidency

I'll also be a debbie downer. You realize if you move to Argentina and the child is born in Argentia, if you divorce, you will need to remain in Argentina until child is 18 unless your wife allows the child to travel. It's a pretty big decision. Just keep in mind.

It's not hard to get your child US citizenship (slightly more difficult when it's the father who has US citizenship rather than the mother).

 

[earlyretirement]

Children born overseas (unless on a US military base aren't considered "natural born citizens". So probably no on the presidency

I'll also be a debbie downer. You realize if you move to Argentina and the child is born in Argentia, if you divorce, you will need to remain in Argentina until child is 18 unless your wife allows the child to travel. It's a pretty big decision. Just keep in mind.

It's not hard to get your child US citizenship (slightly more difficult when it's the father who has US citizenship rather than the mother).

Yep. You can't be President of the USA and be born abroad unless you are on a military base. I'm not sure where gimesalot got their information that you can be born wherever and still become president. Kind of funny how they said it so matter of factly. Ha, ha.

Just out of curiosity citygirl, why is it slightly more difficult when the father has US citizenship over the mother? I had not heard that before. I have many friends that had their kids born in Buenos Aires where their spouse was a Porteño and none of them whether they were male or female had any problems at all getting US Citizenship.

You do have good advice about if the child is born in Argentina and how strong of a position the mother has. Argentina has some of the toughest laws against a child under 18 traveling out of the country. We would have to carry a big bag full of documents every time we traveled with them out of Argentina. Birth certificates, Argentine passports, US passports, marriage certificates, DNI's for the kids and us as well. Crazy but then again the odds of a kid getting smuggled out of Argentina are slim to none flying through an International airport.

 

[FelipeMex]

Harvard Law Review, that's where I got the information... " All the sources routinely used to interpret the Constitution confirm that the phrase “natural born Citizen” has a specific meaning: namely, someone who was a U.S. citizen at birth with no need to go through a naturalization proceeding at some later time. And Congress has made equally clear from the time of the framing of the Constitution to the current day that, subject to certain residency requirements on the parents, someone born to a U.S. citizen parent generally becomes a U.S. citizen without regard to whether the birth takes place in Canada, the Canal Zone, or the continental United States." Source
That's why Ted Cruz was allowed to seek the GOP nomination despite being born in Canada and why all the court challenges to his campaign were unsuccessful source . I state it matter of factly because it is how it works.

Back to the original question... I agree that your child being born in Argentina may complicate matters in case something goes wrong, but my guess is that if your wife really wants to move back to Argentina and you don't, things may go poorly then too.

Yep. You can't be President of the USA and be born abroad unless you are on a military base. I'm not sure where gimesalot got their information that you can be born wherever and still become president. Kind of funny how they said it so matter of factly. Ha, ha.

Just out of curiosity citygirl, why is it slightly more difficult when the father has US citizenship over the mother? I had not heard that before. I have many friends that had their kids born in Buenos Aires where their spouse was a Porteño and none of them whether they were male or female had any problems at all getting US Citizenship.

You do have good advice about if the child is born in Argentina and how strong of a position the mother has. Argentina has some of the toughest laws against a child under 18 traveling out of the country. We would have to carry a big bag full of documents every time we traveled with them out of Argentina. Birth certificates, Argentine passports, US passports, marriage certificates, DNI's for the kids and us as well. Crazy but then again the odds of a kid getting smuggled out of Argentina are slim to none flying through an International airport.