Politics anti-Milei apartment owners: i will buy your BsAs apartment, if you're leaving the country

[Colin]

Argentina is CASH only society. People really don't want to mess around with crypto here vs. cash. My uncle purchased a property here and I had to go to the closing with him to help him carry cash. Definitely the advice to make sure all the cash is brought in legally is a good one. Many years ago when my friend sold his property, he had issues when he sold it as they wanted to see how he paid for it. He just used a black cueva but you can't use those to say you brought money in. He didn't have enough passport stamps. I think he had to pay a penalty. He hired an accountant to help him.

 

[Finance Prof]

I started looking at some new construction that is breaking ground. Do these new construction projects normally finish on time of when they say or project?

No, almost all of these properties are late. But if the entire shell it already up and they just need to finish the inside of the building then they will finish on time. They will know by the end. The key is to buy with a builder that has done many projects and well known. I can tell you horror stories with friends who thought they had a great deal and never got their apartment. There is a well known Twitter poster in Buenos Aires and I just heard he purchased multiple units many years ago in a property and most likely will NEVER get them.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

the only people that think crypto is cool is the people that are in it.

you gotta read about why Bitcoin was created, bro! it's not just a stock to buy/sell: https://cointelegraph.com/learn/banking-the-unbanked-how-defi-can-help-the-low-income-population
there is a lot of history here. Venezuela's people are 70% unbanked. Cyprus folks woke-up and couldn't withdraw their money. Greece, India, etc.

remember when India in 2016 suddenly outlawed their biggest bill? imagine if Argentina outlawed the 2000 and 1000 bills tomorrow. fiat printed money is inherently risky because you are under full control of the central bank: https://www.npr.org/sections/parall...-the-worth-of-abolishing-high-value-banknotes

read more, there's a lot more to cryptocurrency than just having penny stocks. one cool idea is house titles can be recorded on the blockchain, not needing traditional Title Companies, notaries, etc. to verify liens and ownership

 

[StatusNomadicus]

update on Bitcoin Cash (BCH) acceptance for real estate:

"Thank you for reaching out and expressing your interest in our real estate offerings in Argentina. We are delighted to inform you that we do accept Bitcoin Cash (BCH) as a payment method, and we appreciate your flexibility in this regard. I've notified our legal team, and we will promptly arrange a meeting with the Escribano or lawyer to discuss the financial aspects of the transaction. Your convenience is our priority, and we'll strive to schedule the meeting at the earliest."
-and-
"this is from the owner; 'I have no problem in receiving BCH, but we would do it peer to peer (wallet to wallet). There is no need to get a third party involved (bitpay.com). We can have your escribano to solve all the paperwork, and at the moment of the payment (at your escribano office, instead making a bank transfer, or cash deliver you transfer your crypto funds to my wallet.'"

37 acres / 15 hectares "island ranch" by BsAs: https://cryptorealestate.cc/property/ranch-on-island-15-hectares/

66 acres / 27 hectares land down south: https://cryptorealestate.cc/property/land-in-patagonia-argentina-epuyen-near-el-bolson/

i'm still getting clarification on if their people have ever used Crypto, or if this is all just a plan (because then i'l team their Escribano/lawyer up with G&G and earlyretirement to see if we can make buying apartments in BsAs possible, directly with Crypto), so i'll update as i learn more. this is super niche and uncharted territory for sure

 

[Wally]

update on Bitcoin Cash (BCH) acceptance for real estate:

"Thank you for reaching out and expressing your interest in our real estate offerings in Argentina. We are delighted to inform you that we do accept Bitcoin Cash (BCH) as a payment method, and we appreciate your flexibility in this regard. I've notified our legal team, and we will promptly arrange a meeting with the Escribano or lawyer to discuss the financial aspects of the transaction. Your convenience is our priority, and we'll strive to schedule the meeting at the earliest."
-and-
"this is from the owner; 'I have no problem in receiving BCH, but we would do it peer to peer (wallet to wallet). There is no need to get a third party involved (bitpay.com). We can have your escribano to solve all the paperwork, and at the moment of the payment (at your escribano office, instead making a bank transfer, or cash deliver you transfer your crypto funds to my wallet.'"

37 acres / 15 hectares "island ranch" by BsAs: https://cryptorealestate.cc/property/ranch-on-island-15-hectares/

66 acres / 27 hectares land down south: https://cryptorealestate.cc/property/land-in-patagonia-argentina-epuyen-near-el-bolson/

i'm still getting clarification on if their people have ever used Crypto, or if this is all just a plan (because then i'l team their Escribano/lawyer up with G&G and earlyretirement to see if we can make buying apartments in BsAs possible, directly with Crypto), so i'll update as i learn more. this is super niche and uncharted territory for sure

I don't think anyone is really interested in buying/selling apartments with crypto besides you and maybe a very small fringe amount of people. I've never heard of any friends that want to buy with crypto. Everything in Argentina is done with cash money. I sure as hell wouldn't want crypto as payment if I sold my apartment. I'd just do like all the locals and ask for cash or a bank wire to USA account.

I'd guess even the people that tell you they will do it ultimately will NOT do it at closing. Argentines are flaky. Only crypto people think people want crypto. The vast majority of people don't want to mess around with crypto. The only ones hung ho about it are people that have it.

Great if you found a seller that will accept it. I don't think the process should change too much with the idea of signing the paperwork saying that it's valid once the payment hits their account. However, when I was buying my apartment and wired to the sellers US bank account in US dollars it had a bank account information with bank name, account number, etc. I am not sure if crypto is legal or what information you need to provide on the title deed. Things are much more structured today vs. before.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

I've never heard of any friends that want to buy with crypto

most people are stupid and don't do things unless the crowd tells them it's okay and how big is your friend group? i also don't know anyone, but i'm a loser ahahah. but the fallacy of something not being worthwhile, because of an anecdote of not knowing anyone doing it, doesn't really interest me. in fact, it makes it more interesting

remember this?

didn't age well. here's a longer explanation:

do you agree that people making fun on the Internet in 1995 were lacking in imagination? then you should be excited about the Bitcoin project, that aims to remove the government/Fed/banks from our lives, using peer-to-peer digital cash. i'd be happy to send you some links about cryptocurrency/blockchain, if you want. if you've already decided it's stupid, then no worries! i have 200 grand in precious metals in my safe, zero debt, and other physical assets that i bought with crypto years ago when crypto peaked....so i don't really have a dog in this fight, other than my libertarian desire to liberate the oppressed by banking the unbanked. follow Roger Ver if you want more info on this; he inspired me greatly. and remember that for the past 4 years it has been "popular" to fear COVID which is basically just a common cold, wear cloth masks that don't work, get experimental vaccines, and avoid exercising outdoors in the sun...because "The Science" - so no, appeals to what other people do are quite stupid to me

going back to real estate, have you ever heard of the blockchain holding real estate titles and also maintaining the validity of documents like birth certificates? there are also Smart Contracts that are changing the game in a lot of areas. and for this topic, why would a site exist like this, if no one (i'm a "one" lol) wants to do it? https://cryptorealestate.cc/property-city/argentina/

it's funny you think pallets of $100 USD bills is efficient. i could send you 100K right now with BCH for less than a cent, it would be permanently yours in your "wallet" in 10 minutes or less (6 confirmations), and no government or centralized entity could stop us, as long as you and i had an internet connection. crypto really is a revolution, even if the TV Man didn't say it was yet. Wire Transfers cost at least 25 bucks, you have to sign a USA PATRIOT Act explanation, wait for the funds to confirm in a certain amount of business day(s), and your bank can deny/lose it, it can get rejected, etc. (you don't really own your money, when things get hard. ask people in Cyprus, Greece, Argentina, India, or Canadian truckers).

and just because you don't want crypto (but you hold the worthless-by-definition USD fiat digital money that has no actual value and can be printed to hyperinflation with the whims of the Federal Reserve), doesn't mean other people don't. if you knew BCH was worth $220 USD now, but it would be worth $2,200 in a year, you certainly would want it, right?

i'm not hung-up about anything...that's you projecting some sort of psychological issue onto me, which i don't have. i've been a crypto advocate since 2016 or so, and i love the tech. i agree that the government of Argentina in the end will have the final say, which is why i'm looking for a lawyer who has done it, or wants to do it. i hope this doesn't come off as angry...i just like debating, and i've been quite wrong about things before. i guarantee you are very mistaken about almost everything about Blockchain technology. i still haven't met an enemy of Bitcoin that knows anything about how it works, etc. (in fact, the most vehement are always the ones that can't explain anything at all about it)

 

[Wally]

most people are stupid and don't do things unless the crowd tells them it's okay and how big is your friend group? i also don't know anyone, but i'm a loser ahahah. but the fallacy of something not being worthwhile, because of an anecdote of not knowing anyone doing it, doesn't really interest me. in fact, it makes it more interesting

remember this?

didn't age well. here's a longer explanation:

do you agree that people making fun on the Internet in 1995 were lacking in imagination? then you should be excited about the Bitcoin project, that aims to remove the government/Fed/banks from our lives, using peer-to-peer digital cash. i'd be happy to send you some links about cryptocurrency/blockchain, if you want. if you've already decided it's stupid, then no worries! i have 200 grand in precious metals in my safe, zero debt, and other physical assets that i bought with crypto years ago when crypto peaked....so i don't really have a dog in this fight, other than my libertarian desire to liberate the oppressed by banking the unbanked. follow Roger Ver if you want more info on this; he inspired me greatly. and remember that for the past 4 years it has been "popular" to fear COVID which is basically just a common cold, wear cloth masks that don't work, get experimental vaccines, and avoid exercising outdoors in the sun...because "The Science" - so no, appeals to what other people do are quite stupid to me

going back to real estate, have you ever heard of the blockchain holding real estate titles and also maintaining the validity of documents like birth certificates? there are also Smart Contracts that are changing the game in a lot of areas. and for this topic, why would a site exist like this, if no one (i'm a "one" lol) wants to do it? https://cryptorealestate.cc/property-city/argentina/

it's funny you think pallets of $100 USD bills is efficient. i could send you 100K right now with BCH for less than a cent, it would be permanently yours in your "wallet" in 10 minutes or less (6 confirmations), and no government or centralized entity could stop us, as long as you and i had an internet connection. crypto really is a revolution, even if the TV Man didn't say it was yet. Wire Transfers cost at least 25 bucks, you have to sign a USA PATRIOT Act explanation, wait for the funds to confirm in a certain amount of business day(s), and your bank can deny/lose it, it can get rejected, etc. (you don't really own your money, when things get hard. ask people in Cyprus, Greece, Argentina, India, or Canadian truckers).

and just because you don't want crypto (but you hold the worthless-by-definition USD fiat digital money that has no actual value and can be printed to hyperinflation with the whims of the Federal Reserve), doesn't mean other people don't. if you knew BCH was worth $220 USD now, but it would be worth $2,200 in a year, you certainly would want it, right?

i'm not hung-up about anything...that's you projecting some sort of psychological issue onto me, which i don't have. i've been a crypto advocate since 2016 or so, and i love the tech. i agree that the government of Argentina in the end will have the final say, which is why i'm looking for a lawyer who has done it, or wants to do it. i hope this doesn't come off as angry...i just like debating, and i've been quite wrong about things before. i guarantee you are very mistaken about almost everything about Blockchain technology. i still haven't met an enemy of Bitcoin that knows anything about how it works, etc. (in fact, the most vehement are always the ones that can't explain anything at all about it)

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying crypto is a bad idea. I'm just saying the masses here don't want to receive crypto for apartment sale. Let me know how it goes if you are successful with a property purchase with your BCH but my hunch is you won't be able to complete it. At least not without some headaches. I am not making fun of you however. I am not pointing out cash is king here.

Hey I'm not saying cash is fun. But these days the owner will mostly allow you to wire to their account outside of Argentina. I have lots of friends here that own. Maybe 35 to 40 local friends. I actually agree with you most people are stupid! Including me. But that still doesn't change the fact that you probably won't find a seller where you can truly buy with BCH. I hope I'm wrong and you document it. Crypto isn't going to be popular here to replace cash any time soon. It sounds like you are totally new to Argentina. Stick around and you will see what I'm saying is true.

 

[James Bond]

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying crypto is a bad idea. I'm just saying the masses here don't want to receive crypto for apartment sale. Let me know how it goes if you are successful with a property purchase with your BCH but my hunch is you won't be able to complete it. At least not without some headaches. I am not making fun of you however. I am not pointing out cash is king here.

Hey I'm not saying cash is fun. But these days the owner will mostly allow you to wire to their account outside of Argentina. I have lots of friends here that own. Maybe 35 to 40 local friends. I actually agree with you most people are stupid! Including me. But that still doesn't change the fact that you probably won't find a seller where you can truly buy with BCH. I hope I'm wrong and you document it. Crypto isn't going to be popular here to replace cash any time soon. It sounds like you are totally new to Argentina. Stick around and you will see what I'm saying is true.

I totally agree with Wally. I doubt you will actually be able to do it. But please post about it if you're successful. You will find Argentines are lazy so if it involves more work which this will almost definitely cause it will ultimately fail. You get to choose the lawyer to be used for the closing so ask them first. If they aren't willing to do it then it won't matter if the buyer is. You are new to Argentina and don't know the ropes yet. But it won't take you long to figure out things here don't work like back in Kansas.....

 

[David]

update on Bitcoin Cash (BCH) acceptance for real estate:

"Thank you for reaching out and expressing your interest in our real estate offerings in Argentina. We are delighted to inform you that we do accept Bitcoin Cash (BCH) as a payment method, and we appreciate your flexibility in this regard. I've notified our legal team, and we will promptly arrange a meeting with the Escribano or lawyer to discuss the financial aspects of the transaction. Your convenience is our priority, and we'll strive to schedule the meeting at the earliest."
-and-
"this is from the owner; 'I have no problem in receiving BCH, but we would do it peer to peer (wallet to wallet). There is no need to get a third party involved (bitpay.com). We can have your escribano to solve all the paperwork, and at the moment of the payment (at your escribano office, instead making a bank transfer, or cash deliver you transfer your crypto funds to my wallet.'"

37 acres / 15 hectares "island ranch" by BsAs: https://cryptorealestate.cc/property/ranch-on-island-15-hectares/

66 acres / 27 hectares land down south: https://cryptorealestate.cc/property/land-in-patagonia-argentina-epuyen-near-el-bolson/

i'm still getting clarification on if their people have ever used Crypto, or if this is all just a plan (because then i'l team their Escribano/lawyer up with G&G and earlyretirement to see if we can make buying apartments in BsAs possible, directly with Crypto), so i'll update as i learn more. this is super niche and uncharted territory for sure

Let us know how this turns out! I agree with the others that this is just unheard of in transactions so will be interesting to see if you're ultimately successful.

 

[VINO]

Let us know how this turns out! I agree with the others that this is just unheard of in transactions so will be interesting to see if you're ultimately successful.

My brother who has crypto tried to do the same thing you're doing. In the end he said they were all flaky. He said they always say yes, yes, yes until the end when they told him it was his responsibility to get cash here and then pay them. So in the end he had to pay cash too. But the escribano warned him that he might need to show later how he got money into the country and there are grey issues on the legality of bringing in cash to buy property with crypto. Argentina has very strong anti-money laundering laws. I know someone that couldn't buy an apartment because he got arrested before. He got found not guilty but he still wasn't allowed to purchase a property here.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

Crypto isn't going to be popular here to replace cash any time soon. It sounds like you are totally new to Argentina. Stick around and you will see what I'm saying is true.

but that isn't based on anything objective. it's just like, your opinion, man! cash is bulky, a pain in the ass and expensive to move (what, 4% of real estate cost, so 4 grand for a 100k apartment here? you think technology won't make a 4,000 opportunity more efficient, for less money and less time? that's a silly prediction. cash is only king because the government has made it so everything has to happen in the "Black" market, with everyone being corrupt and lying to make things happen. but there will always be new tech/developments that disrupt the status quo.

i could have said the same thing about that guy selling his house: https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/...pt-bitcoin-for-his-64-million-mansion-9587007

...and from the article's 16Aug2017 through 02Feb2018, you could have been a short-sighted pessimist and said 'no one wants to do that' - but: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5348261/Michael-Komaransky-sold-Miami-mansion-Bitcoin.html

the Seller got Bitcoin! (albeit, BTC, which is inferior to BCH) without any fiat. so, it's impossible until it isn't, just like any tech that humans develop and innovate

and here's a funny (but pioneering) way to use the Blockchain: https://ismikekomaranskydead.com/
(the Seller millionaire's/billionaire's FitBit is tracking his heart rate, posting a transaction on the blockchain with a heartbeat or not, then his server translates that into YES or NO, lol)

i literally posted links where people want BCH for their property, and you comment that no one wants BCH. here's another link, a cool map where you can use BCH, with more and more in Argentina: https://map.bitcoin.com/

you think "the masses" don't want something. i think they just don't know, because when 80% of people are living in a communist shithole with state propaganda 24/7, they aren't as exposed to technologies and ideas that potentially take power from the State. bitcoin is the ultimate anti-State technology. i don't know why people are so dismissive about Blockchain technology. the Bitcoin whitepaper is really short and not that technological. it's a great read you can do right now, instead of reading a couple forum posts.

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

 

[StatusNomadicus]

You are new to Argentina and don't know the ropes yet. But it won't take you long to figure out things here don't work like back in Kansas.....

does everyone in this thread think they are older/wiser/more experienced than anyone else on this forum? so weird. maybe you don't mean to be patronizing or condescending, but that sentence implies that i've only done business in the US, that Argentina is SO unique compared to anywhere else in the world, and that once i have a single bad experience i will just give-up and buy an apartment with USD in an area that everyone else approves of

bruh. use your imagination! in this same mindset, someone could have predicted that Milei wouldn't win, and if i would have consulted them on how to get to Argentina, in case he does win, i might have been faced with:

"I totally agree with [other person telling you 'no']. I doubt [Milei] will actually be able to do it. But please post about it if [he wins and you see the inauguration]. You will find Argentines are [scared of change] so if it involves [something other than socialist populism], which this will almost definitely cause, it will ultimately fail. [...] You are new to Argentina and don't know the ropes yet. But it won't take you long to figure out things here don't work like back in Kansas, [and a Libertarian president will never win the election here]."

and you could have said that flying internationally with a 90-pound dog is too hard, so just don't do it. and any other thing that isn't readily-available-and-popular-to-the-masses that has any sort of challenge to it. dude...i'm an Expat! i don't do what 95% of other people do; that's the entire premise! if i wanted a cushy job in the state i was born in, i would do that. i'm asking questions here to network with entrepreneurs and get real-world answers to maybe-unprecedented things...but just because they haven't happened here, yet, doesn't mean they haven't happened somewhere else (see my previous link to Wally about a 2018 Bitcoin transaction for a house).

i vehemently reject that Argentines are any lazier or any different than any other groups of humans in the world. yes, there are aspects of CABA culture that drive me crazy. you know what drives me crazy in Iceland? it's taboo to mix friend-circles, so you can be friends with your Airbnb host for a week, but his college friends will absolutely refuse to associate with you, from a separate group. you know what i hate in Estonia? people think saying hi and having any sort of physical proximity is an affront to their comfort. know what i hate about middle-eastern culture? you have to act like you give a sh*t about tea/chai for 15 minutes before you're allowed to get to the point of the meeting.

i may not know the ropes about the bureaucracy and inefficiencies of Buenos Aires business deals, but i know human nature pretty well. you ever been to Afghanistan? Iraq? ever lived out of a backpack in Europe for 3 months with no family/friends? ever bought and maintained a travel trailer and towed it around the US and lived out of it for months? been a cop in a city during the post-George-Floyd era? trained for and ran a half-marathon? swam 3 miles without stopping? supervised dozens of security guards from Uganda in another country? maybe other people have learned the 'ropes' in places you'll never go (and the 'ropes' are just basic principles of economics, human psychology, and the hard work of due-diligence research when everyone is telling you "that's a bad idea because i wouldn't do it"). if you have some input about the thread, i'm all ears, but this "you probably won't do it because i think so" and "you have a lot to learn, Bucko [condescending tone, like you're some hotshot who has seen it all]" is boring to me

 

[StatusNomadicus]

this is just unheard of in transactions

funny you mention it, look what just came out 6 hours ago!

1. Indian man buys property with gold bars: https://indianexpress.com/article/t...eal-gold-bricks-each-worth-rs-7-lakh-9074372/

but wait, an 'expert' in the USA says "You first must liquidate and transfer the asset into cash to use your gold assets to purchase a home." https://www.peggyhoag.com/2022/06/23/can-you-buy-a-house-with-gold/#can-you-buy-a-house-with-gold-4

uh oh, PeggyHoag was just debunked today

2. Dubai in 2022 using Stablecoins like USDT (a Blockchain like Bitcoin) for property sales: "Currently, more developers & property owners are eager to accept cryptocurrency payments. In addition, a legislative framework to facilitate such transactions is in the works. Until that time, all cryptocurrencies only pay for transactions through OTC exchanges and in cash." https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/property-buyers-switching-stable-coins-bitcoin-prices-

3. Washington State article says Bitcoin has to change to Dollars beforehand: "[...] buying and selling homes with Bitcoin. While these types of transactions are not very common in the state of Washington, but the trend of home shopping with Bitcoin is starting to track upwards. Before we dive into Bitcoin please remember that lenders do not work with crypto-currencies so these deals are treated as cash sales and there’s no way to show proof of funds which is a legal requirement of escrow." https://www.pnwtkitsap.com/buying-and-selling-with-bitcoin/

that is written a bit ambiguously; on a loan sale, a lender might not yet accept crypto (they will, someday), but cash/crypto sales don't need loans.

4. Tesla might be re-enabling Bitcoin payments for their products: https://electrek.co/2023/07/20/tesla-appears-ready-take-bitcoin-payments-again/

5. gaining traction: "According to The Close, buyers who pay for real property with Bitcoin typically convert it into U.S. Dollars (USD) and transfer the funds to the seller using a service called BitPay. True 'bitcoin-to-bitcoin' transactions, where money is never converted into USD, are rare. Some landlords and developers now accept cryptocurrency as a payment method for rent. Real estate agents have access to training on this subject, such as Crypto Certified courses. Experts predict that it will take the mortgage and title industries longer to widely accept cryptocurrency. With mortgages, many companies require buyers to cash out their cryptocurrency and let the funds “season” in a bank for two months before accepting it. Blockchain has the potential to streamline many components of the title and escrow process, but many manual processes (such as identifying title defects or recording the deed with the county) will be slow or impossible to fully digitize on blockchain." https://www.smartsettlements.com/blog-post/the-basics-of-cryptocurrency-in-real-estate

6. here's an overview of Bitcoin in real estate: https://dilendorf.com/resources/how...k-real-estate-transactions-using-bitcoin.html

@David i'll keep updating this thread, sure. the "unheard of" part is really on the Escribano who is going to process the transaction in the register; i have already met with an apartment owner in Cresp who wants BCH, the link of Crypto Real Estate above where the owner of some acres wants BCH directly, a developer who will use a Cueva to turn BCH into USD cash for them, and a service worldwide called RealOpen that will handle any real estate worldwide with crypto: https://realopen.com/buy

 

[StatusNomadicus]

Argentina has very strong anti-money laundering laws

which is funny because almost every every car and property deal is only listing ~60% value, probably no one pays the taxes the gov't says they should, and Cuevas are moving USD cash around the world with zero idea of how 'dirty' it is on the international crime world

i'm hoping BowTiedMara on twitter will analyze the text for me since he's better at Spanish right now, but i think most helpful will be to read the 1500 pages of Milei law proposals, and 300 pages of DNU/executive orders. because there's a good chance that the anti-money-laundering laws are just corrupt rules so that the Peronist elites can control money and allow their friends to have special deals, while restricting the freedoms of regular Argentines. if the laws are deleted, then Bitcoin/crypto may not even be considered a big deal. and remember, Milei likely has crypto:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1734813410699940271

if your brother would have held-out and waited for a deal without USD, i would have paid him for advice! damnit ahahaha. agreed on Escribano; it's the point of this thread, because there are 3 categories of Escribano and i need the 1% catagory:

A. think Blockchain is a type of stock, and say 'just turn your Bitcoin Cash (BCH) into USD for me' (>89%)
B. think it's a cool tech, but have never dealt with a real-world use case, but are interested in facilitating. (10%)
C. have actually seen or done a deal in Argentina without any USD, and gotten clarity on the legalities of this when it's time to sell (<1% if not 0%).

 

[Wally]

but that isn't based on anything objective. it's just like, your opinion, man! cash is bulky, a pain in the ass and expensive to move (what, 4% of real estate cost, so 4 grand for a 100k apartment here? you think technology won't make a 4,000 opportunity more efficient, for less money and less time? that's a silly prediction. cash is only king because the government has made it so everything has to happen in the "Black" market, with everyone being corrupt and lying to make things happen. but there will always be new tech/developments that disrupt the status quo.

i could have said the same thing about that guy selling his house: https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/...pt-bitcoin-for-his-64-million-mansion-9587007

...and from the article's 16Aug2017 through 02Feb2018, you could have been a short-sighted pessimist and said 'no one wants to do that' - but: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5348261/Michael-Komaransky-sold-Miami-mansion-Bitcoin.html

the Seller got Bitcoin! (albeit, BTC, which is inferior to BCH) without any fiat. so, it's impossible until it isn't, just like any tech that humans develop and innovate

and here's a funny (but pioneering) way to use the Blockchain: https://ismikekomaranskydead.com/
(the Seller millionaire's/billionaire's FitBit is tracking his heart rate, posting a transaction on the blockchain with a heartbeat or not, then his server translates that into YES or NO, lol)

i literally posted links where people want BCH for their property, and you comment that no one wants BCH. here's another link, a cool map where you can use BCH, with more and more in Argentina: https://map.bitcoin.com/

you think "the masses" don't want something. i think they just don't know, because when 80% of people are living in a communist shithole with state propaganda 24/7, they aren't as exposed to technologies and ideas that potentially take power from the State. bitcoin is the ultimate anti-State technology. i don't know why people are so dismissive about Blockchain technology. the Bitcoin whitepaper is really short and not that technological. it's a great read you can do right now, instead of reading a couple forum posts.

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

You just aren't listening to us that all have been in Buenos Aires and gone through the experience. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. Not sure why? We are giving you constructive objective information and telling you that Argentina is UNLIKE any place you have been. The banking system doesn't work here which you should already realize being here only a few days/weeks.

No one is trying to argue the merits of blockchain. But you're not listening to anyone and keep raving about it.

funny you mention it, look what just came out 6 hours ago!

1. Indian man buys property with gold bars: https://indianexpress.com/article/t...eal-gold-bricks-each-worth-rs-7-lakh-9074372/

but wait, an 'expert' in the USA says "You first must liquidate and transfer the asset into cash to use your gold assets to purchase a home." https://www.peggyhoag.com/2022/06/23/can-you-buy-a-house-with-gold/#can-you-buy-a-house-with-gold-4

uh oh, PeggyHoag was just debunked today

2. Dubai in 2022 using Stablecoins like USDT (a Blockchain like Bitcoin) for property sales: "Currently, more developers & property owners are eager to accept cryptocurrency payments. In addition, a legislative framework to facilitate such transactions is in the works. Until that time, all cryptocurrencies only pay for transactions through OTC exchanges and in cash." https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/property-buyers-switching-stable-coins-bitcoin-prices-

3. Washington State article says Bitcoin has to change to Dollars beforehand: "[...] buying and selling homes with Bitcoin. While these types of transactions are not very common in the state of Washington, but the trend of home shopping with Bitcoin is starting to track upwards. Before we dive into Bitcoin please remember that lenders do not work with crypto-currencies so these deals are treated as cash sales and there’s no way to show proof of funds which is a legal requirement of escrow." https://www.pnwtkitsap.com/buying-and-selling-with-bitcoin/

that is written a bit ambiguously; on a loan sale, a lender might not yet accept crypto (they will, someday), but cash/crypto sales don't need loans.

4. Tesla might be re-enabling Bitcoin payments for their products: https://electrek.co/2023/07/20/tesla-appears-ready-take-bitcoin-payments-again/

5. gaining traction: "According to The Close, buyers who pay for real property with Bitcoin typically convert it into U.S. Dollars (USD) and transfer the funds to the seller using a service called BitPay. True 'bitcoin-to-bitcoin' transactions, where money is never converted into USD, are rare. Some landlords and developers now accept cryptocurrency as a payment method for rent. Real estate agents have access to training on this subject, such as Crypto Certified courses. Experts predict that it will take the mortgage and title industries longer to widely accept cryptocurrency. With mortgages, many companies require buyers to cash out their cryptocurrency and let the funds “season” in a bank for two months before accepting it. Blockchain has the potential to streamline many components of the title and escrow process, but many manual processes (such as identifying title defects or recording the deed with the county) will be slow or impossible to fully digitize on blockchain." https://www.smartsettlements.com/blog-post/the-basics-of-cryptocurrency-in-real-estate

6. here's an overview of Bitcoin in real estate: https://dilendorf.com/resources/how...k-real-estate-transactions-using-bitcoin.html

@David i'll keep updating this thread, sure. the "unheard of" part is really on the Escribano who is going to process the transaction in the register; i have already met with an apartment owner in Cresp who wants BCH, the link of Crypto Real Estate above where the owner of some acres wants BCH directly, a developer who will use a Cueva to turn BCH into USD cash for them, and a service worldwide called RealOpen that will handle any real estate worldwide with crypto: https://realopen.com/buy

Nothing in these has to do with anything in Argentina. You're still missing the point. Argentina is not all these places. Things here don't work like USA, Dubai, etc. Real estate market here does not work like back home. That's all we are trying to tell you but you're too gung ho on your crypto. Not saying crypto is good or bad. Just saying no one here deals with it on property closings. Cash is king here or wiring cash you have in USD is the way it's done here.

 

[Che Vos]

You just aren't listening to us that all have been in Buenos Aires and gone through the experience. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. Not sure why? We are giving you constructive objective information and telling you that Argentina is UNLIKE any place you have been. The banking system doesn't work here which you should already realize being here only a few days/weeks.

No one is trying to argue the merits of blockchain. But you're not listening to anyone and keep raving about it.

Nothing in these has to do with anything in Argentina. You're still missing the point. Argentina is not all these places. Things here don't work like USA, Dubai, etc. Real estate market here does not work like back home. That's all we are trying to tell you but you're too gung ho on your crypto. Not saying crypto is good or bad. Just saying no one here deals with it on property closings. Cash is king here or wiring cash you have in USD is the way it's done here.

@Wally he never listen. Many people tell him how it is but he wants pay in his bitcoin. Ha.

 

[FuturoBA]

I don't know enough about cryptocurrency or the ins and outs of buying and selling here, but by all accounts if your end goal is simply to buy a place, using crypto doesn't sound like the best strategy.

But if you want to do to set a precedence, here in Argentina, and further legitimize crypto then I say go and see how it goes. Perhaps you attempt and don't succeed, but if you do, you'll make headlines and maybe convert your newfound knowledge and ability, and proof of concept into some sort of business or consultancy for other would be crypto investors.

It takes two to tango, and unless someone is looking specifically for crypto and willing to go through the hoops with you, it seems like an uphill battle. Either way good luck.

 

[earlyretirement]

I don't know enough about cryptocurrency or the ins and outs of buying and selling here, but by all accounts if your end goal is simply to buy a place, using crypto doesn't sound like the best strategy.

But if you want to do to set a precedence, here in Argentina, and further legitimize crypto then I say go and see how it goes. Perhaps you attempt and don't succeed, but if you do, you'll make headlines and maybe convert your newfound knowledge and ability, and proof of concept into some sort of business or consultancy for other would be crypto investors.

It takes two to tango, and unless someone is looking specifically for crypto and willing to go through the hoops with you, it seems like an uphill battle. Either way good luck.

Spot on target. I agree with the others and I think sometimes when you write/read on forums it's hard to get the tone and sometimes things come across the wrong way. I don't think @Wally @James Bond @VINO are trying to be harsh or saying they are smarter than you. I don't want to speak for them but they are probably giving you info based on their experiences and also those people/friends that they know that have purchased.

@StatusNomadicus I don't think they are trying to be hard on you at all. It sounds like they purchased real estate here and understand how things are here. Read this Wall Street Journal article that I helped prepare the reporter for - https://buysellba.com/news-/-media/f/buenos-aires-lures-foreign-buyers-with-tumbling-prices---wsj?blogcategory=Koh+Investments

I have literally purchased more residential real estate in Buenos Aires than anyone in the world. I've gone through a lot of up and down cycles over the past 22 years. Read that article from 10+ years ago. After that article I purchased many more at good prices when owners wanted to dump at what I thought were low prices. Read the article and you can see even then, I was negotiating deals where buyers wanted to pay with gold bars. I've seen many many things were buyers wanted to pay with various other things vs. cash. Gold, crypto, other smaller properties, etc. In the end, it was always cash.

I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible. Just that I don't see this happening any time mainstream either. There is so much mistrust in the banking system and also in one another here. It's sad but most people operate within a framework of "how is this person going to cheat me". Escribanos have enough to worry about so crypto is the last thing they probably want to deal with.

I TOTALLY agree with you @StatusNomadicus . Cash is totally archaic and complexly bonkers that you can be paying/receiving $100 US bills. But fortunately these days more people are open to receiving wires to accounts outside of Argentina. And on all the new construction I'm buying, I am wiring US dollars from my USA bank to an account outside of Argentina and then the developer is using the bond market to get the cash here. It's all 100% legal and costs me 0% so it would be crazy not to go that route.

Argentina is not moving to that standard any time soon. I hope I'm wrong but I know real estate here better than most people and I'm saying I don't see it happening any time soon. I'm VERY thankful that at least wire transfers are more common than when I started buying in 2002 after the corralito.


Cash from a closing. $300,000 US dollars.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

Argentina is UNLIKE any place you have been

no. you didn't read anything i wrote or any of the links, so no point in debating, because you already know everything and you're certain that Argentina is unique, and no other country in the world is unique.

@earlyretirement it's nice that wires can be used for your network...super appealing. i would love to go back in time a year before you got that started, and suggest that route instead of shipping $100 bills from The Fed for a 4% fee. i suspect the all-knowing pessimists above would tell you that it couldn't be done.

i'm not super worried about if it happens in 1 month or 10 years...and my shoulders are chip-free, but stupid ideas ought to be criticized : P the whole point of the post was to acknowledge that it probably hasn't been done, highlight the difficulties, and network with people who might be able to give guidance. other who aren't going to post "argentina is sooooo unique, and no aspects of the financial/economic system will change in the next decade" are welcome to post some info about the crypto-for-real-estate market!

 

[Bobbie Burgers]

no. you didn't read anything i wrote or any of the links, so no point in debating, because you already know everything and you're certain that Argentina is unique, and no other country in the world is unique.

@earlyretirement it's nice that wires can be used for your network...super appealing. i would love to go back in time a year before you got that started, and suggest that route instead of shipping $100 bills from The Fed for a 4% fee. i suspect the all-knowing pessimists above would tell you that it couldn't be done.

i'm not super worried about if it happens in 1 month or 10 years...and my shoulders are chip-free, but stupid ideas ought to be criticized : P the whole point of the post was to acknowledge that it probably hasn't been done, highlight the difficulties, and network with people who might be able to give guidance. other who aren't going to post "argentina is sooooo unique, and no aspects of the financial/economic system will change in the next decade" are welcome to post some info about the crypto-for-real-estate market!

Let us know how it turns out for you. I'd love to read if you're successful. Locals don't trust anything but cash. It's been like that for a while. Yes it's crazy but it works for them. Remember that as a buyer many times you have no choice. The seller won't sell many times unless you bring cash. Sure you can pass but many times you will lose out on good deals if you don't agree.