Newcomer Argentine rules regarding receival of foreign pension

[Betsy Ross]

Argentina's financial setup right now is still very much broken. everyone wants USD physical $100 bills, but there is no way for anyone to get them (unless you're here already with a DNI, USD account with Galicia/etc., and can withdraw when certain ATMs have Dollars). for 99% of us and especially new arrivals, bringing cash on the plane is the main option, or trying for dollar bills in Chile/Uruguay, or paying a cueva a large commission and trusting them to actually give you cash after the Wire Transfer completes.

There are no ATM machines that will allow foreigners to withdraw US dollars out of the ATM's for non-clients. These people withdrawing dollars out are locals that have USD accounts locally with the banks. I have never heard of any ATM machines here allowing customers that don't have a USD account in Argentina.

There are ATM machines in Uruguay where you can withdraw dollars. There is no way that I know of to get dollars here without paying some fee. The only free way is bringing them from the USA on the plane. You can bring up to $9,999 without declaring it. Crossing into Uruguay and bringing but costs are high when you consider buying Buquebus ticket plus the time. And even then you are limited to what you can take out of ATM machines there.

Cuevas that have been around a long time are generally safe. But you just never know. One of the largest cuevas in CABA last year was shut down. This was before Milei took over but keep in mind that currency restrictions are still in place. Lots of trust in the company you are using.

‘Croatian cueva’ – One of Argentina's biggest illegal trading houses shut down

Nimbus Group, one of the capital's biggest illegal currency traders, shut down by police; Officials say site, headed by 'King of the cuevas' Ivo 'The Croat' Esteban Rojnica, is one of largest operators of 'blue dollar' exchanges in Argentina.

www.batimes.com.ar

 

[Vince]

If you are wiring in money for anything and not using WU or some official source just make sure they have been doing business for many years. Our friend used a cueva that her Airbnb owner recommended to wire in some cash. They wired it to a US bank account and it was supposed to cost them 3.5% but after they made the wire they said it went up to 6%. You are at the mercy of these people. It wasn't too big of an account. Only a few thousand dollars but they wonder what would have happened if they were sending in a large amount. These are not regulated transactions. No one will protect you if things go wrong. We heard of cases where tourists wired in and did not get the money. There is no where you can go to make things right.

Scams can and do happen often times with foreigners because they know there is nothing that can be done. Legal system here doesn't work for locals. Imagine for a foreigner or tourist. If you are using a cueva even making sure on fees there is nothing protecting you if things go wrong.

There are no ATM machines that will allow foreigners to withdraw US dollars out of the ATM's for non-clients. These people withdrawing dollars out are locals that have USD accounts locally with the banks. I have never heard of any ATM machines here allowing customers that don't have a USD account in Argentina.

There are ATM machines in Uruguay where you can withdraw dollars. There is no way that I know of to get dollars here without paying some fee. The only free way is bringing them from the USA on the plane. You can bring up to $9,999 without declaring it. Crossing into Uruguay and bringing but costs are high when you consider buying Buquebus ticket plus the time. And even then you are limited to what you can take out of ATM machines there.

Cuevas that have been around a long time are generally safe. But you just never know. One of the largest cuevas in CABA last year was shut down. This was before Milei took over but keep in mind that currency restrictions are still in place. Lots of trust in the company you are using.

‘Croatian cueva’ – One of Argentina's biggest illegal trading houses shut down

Nimbus Group, one of the capital's biggest illegal currency traders, shut down by police; Officials say site, headed by 'King of the cuevas' Ivo 'The Croat' Esteban Rojnica, is one of largest operators of 'blue dollar' exchanges in Argentina.

www.batimes.com.ar

I remember this happening last year with that company. Actually a lot of smaller cuevas had the same thing happen. There was rumors that they weren't paying bribes to AFIP on time hence the raiding. AFIP knows that all of these cuevas exist. We had a friend that also sent in funds and the cueva they used got raided but they were fortunate the company still paid them. These cuevas know if they exit scam they only can once because no one would ever use them again. But there are tales of some going out of business and then setting shop again under another name.

Most locals use the same company that they have been using for decades. My wife's family has been using the same cueva for decades and decades.

 

[JonJLA]

..Argentina's financial setup right now is still very much broken. everyone wants USD physical $100 bills, but there is no way for anyone to get them (unless you're here already with a DNI, USD account with Galicia/etc., and can withdraw when certain ATMs have Dollars). for 99% of us and especially new arrivals, bringing cash on the plane is the main option, or trying for dollar bills in Chile/Uruguay, or paying a cueva a large commission and trusting them to actually give you cash after the Wire Transfer completes.

i totally understand why earlyretirement succeeds in Argentina (and Mexico, although RIP to that country with its communist president now...Brazil also) because he provides a service that really doesn't exist. if someone can solve the problem of getting USD in and out of Argentina's disconnected banking system, with 1% fees or less, and not needing to trust strangers in illegal mafia networks, they will be rich!

@StatusNomadicus Argentina's banking system has been broken for a long time. I have bought a few apartments in BA. I also sold a few. What you mentioned about @earlyretirement is correct. The reason he is able to be successful in Argentina is because it is difficult to trust anyone there. He has been doing business in Argentina for 20 years. I first hired his company in the early 2000's. I bought my first apartment then. He had a different company back then but was doing the same thing. He helped me wire in my cash and paid the seller. He also handled the purchase of all my furniture and brought in the cash for that. Almost impossible to trust people in Argentina with all that cash.

When I sold my properties I also hired him to handle the sale. Fortunately, I could arrange for the buyer to wire to my US bank but there was still significant amounts of cash to deal with. I had to pay realtors and lawyers and taxes. He guaranteed all of those transactions.

The banks here are terrible. I don't know how much they have improved with Milei but I would guess they are still terrible.

Everyone uses some cueva but there is a big trust factor and you have to hope they do not exit scam or have problems with the government and fees are very high. Fees can be as high as 5% right now getting physical bills to Argentina. Western Union is reliable for getting pesos but you still have to turn around and buy USD with it if you need dollars. Not efficient or cheap.

Agree with the risk on using crypto. It is easy to get funds here but have to deal with the high commissions. If I am not mistaken earlyretirement has been around in Argentina since the corralito. Anyone that has navigated multiple governments/Presidents here successfully will know how to get things done.

It doesn't sound like they are getting rid of currency controls any time soon.

Banks here are very bad. Remember even if they end currency controls there is no guarantee that you won't be dealing with cash. There are some that do not trust the banking system and never will. There is also no guarantee that even if they end currency controls that you won't have another bank run. So cash will probably always be part of the equation in Argentina.

Even if the laws changed and the banks allow Americans or foreigners to open up a US dollar account here I wouldn't recommend keeping large amounts of dollars in the banking system. Research what happened during the corralito in Argentina.

It will be interesting if there ever comes a point when Western Union will allow the transfer of dollars to Argentina.

Dealing with cash in Argentina is a royal pain. I bought an apartment in Palermo last year and fortunately I was able to just make a USD wire to the developer's account. @earlyretirement helped structure that so I did not have to pay any fees. But I had to wire down cash for stamp taxes and my apartment is almost done and I am furnishing it and I had to send down about $25,000 dollars to furnish and decorate my property and only way to do it is with private cuevas. I had to pay 4% getting it to Argentina. But it went smoothly.

I don't know how things can function like that. I didn't worry because I used his company but I don't understand how this is normal. The government needs to fix this. I couldn't open up a bank account there without getting residency there.

@StatusNomadicus the President in Mexico might be a commie but at least things the banking system in Mexico is similar to the United States. I purchased two properties in Mexico and it was effortless and just wired the the funds at closing. No extra fees or hassles. It was simple. I have not seen a banking system like Argentina has with these currency controls.

@Johnny you are lucky. That did not exist when I purchased several of my properties. Even when the seller had a foreign account they did not let me wire to their account because they wanted to keep the cash under the table. On my 3rd property that I purchased the owner would let me wire to him but it was a surreal process. He only would sell it if we used a fake price on the title deed which I discovered is very common in Argentina. I didn't want to agree but had to. So I had to go through a cueva to get the cash in and the wired amount had to match the fake price. Fortunately when I sold that property in 2017 I didn't have to worry about capital gains taxes as there were no capital gains taxes at that time. But I ran into the same problem. This time the buyer wouldn't buy unless we used a fake price. I did not want to do that but I encountered that on multiple buyers. It worked out because I had capital gains taxes to worry about in the U.S. so it worked out. But an eye opener that things here don't work the same way.

I also had to pay a fee to wire in cash for furniture but the fees were more reasonable. That fluctuates based on what the local rate is. It's very high now because many people are sending in USD for the tax amnesty. I heard it is 4% or more now.

 

[earlyretirement]

for those in this situation, the only option for an Argentine bank account that i was successful in was Banco Nacion, opening a Peso (Ahorros/Savings) account using a Precaria and my USA passport (having the CDI number seemed to help; not sure if it's necessary). all of this was done in Cordoba at the Alto Alberdi branch. that being said, without a DNI# you can't use the BNA+ app, use MercadoPago or MercadoLibre, get a phone factura plan, etc. - this was a requirement from Migraciones for me to deposit 1.2 million Pesos to show my Rentista residency was legit.

Banking - Bank Account With Just a Passport and CDI Number (No DNI)

Hi guys, I have a friend who is working on his residency but he's currently here just on a tourist visa. He is going to start making some investments and he needs to get a bank account here. Does anyone know of a local bank who will open an account for someone who only has a CDI number and a US...

www.expatsba.com

and to resurrect this Feb2024 thread, i want to concur:


...Argentina's financial setup right now is still very much broken. everyone wants USD physical $100 bills, but there is no way for anyone to get them (unless you're here already with a DNI, USD account with Galicia/etc., and can withdraw when certain ATMs have Dollars). for 99% of us and especially new arrivals, bringing cash on the plane is the main option, or trying for dollar bills in Chile/Uruguay, or paying a cueva a large commission and trusting them to actually give you cash after the Wire Transfer completes.

i totally understand why earlyretirement succeeds in Argentina (and Mexico, although RIP to that country with its communist president now...Brazil also) because he provides a service that really doesn't exist. if someone can solve the problem of getting USD in and out of Argentina's disconnected banking system, with 1% fees or less, and not needing to trust strangers in illegal mafia networks, they will be rich!

of course, Bitcoin and other self-custody cryptocurrencies already solved this problem of transferring wealth, but the volatility is still too high, and the tech is very 'Wild West' when it comes to maintaining your own Crypto wallet (you lose it, it's gone, no one can get it back).

i think the next 3 years are going to be full of interesting solutions for problems like this.

2016: https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu...ontext=international_immersion_program_papers
Apr2022: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789
May2022: https://www.thedialogue.org/analysis/will-cryptoassets-disrupt-remittances-in-latin-america/
Aug2022: https://www.freethink.com/hard-tech/crypto-argentina-black-market-cash

Sounds like you are figuring out how much of a mess it is here @StatusNomadicus. I told you that cash is king here. Everyone here wants $100 bills. It will most likely stay that way for years to come. People are bringing in USD and depositing them into banks for the amnesty and to launder their money but you will most likely see all of these people pull these funds out as soon as they are eligible to. There is more trust in the banking system but most people don't fully trust the system and much of these funds will go into real estate, automobile purchases and also just go under the mattress again as crazy as that sounds.

People don't understand how difficult the system is here. I appreciate all the kind words from all of you that I have worked with over the years. I agree what my company does is very unique. Even if a local company offered the same service, almost none have a 22+ year track record in Argentina moving hundreds of millions of dollars successfully and working with hundreds and hundreds of clients.

The problem is that the judicial system does not work in Argentina so you only have once chance to do everything correctly from the first time and @BuySellBA is that peace of mind. I can't tell you the number of horror stories we get from people trying to buy real estate on their own. Argentina is not like the USA or first world countries where you have the legal system to protect you.

We do a lot of other things for our clients besides moving money into Argentina without hassles or risk. We take a power of attorney and close for almost all of our clients. That peace of mind is comforting for most people.

Argentina is a great country but the banking system probably will always be a very broken system. Even with President Milei and how much he is improving things, @JonJLA is correct that I wouldn't advocate to keep large amounts of US dollars in a local account. I posted a story on one of these threads about my experience with HSBC bank in Argentina and how they wanted to keep $20,000+ USD of mine.

It is going to take years to sort out the mess of the banking system there.

 

[Larry]

Scams can and do happen often times with foreigners because they know there is nothing that can be done. Legal system here doesn't work for locals. Imagine for a foreigner or tourist. If you are using a cueva even making sure on fees there is nothing protecting you if things go wrong.

That is putting it mildly. When I bought an apartment here I had to pay the owner with a pile of cash. All went ok but when I furnished my apartment I had to pay a deposit for furniture. I paid 50% to make some beds, tables and desks. I went with someone that the seller recommended that made some furniture for her. Long story short I lost my 50% deposit. They ran off with the money. Nothing I could do.