Newcomer Buenos Aires in or out

[DavidPost]

In my opinion, it's not a bad place for retirees with a US$ income despite the inflation and other serious problems. Since the rapid increase in the parallel rate of exchange, the cost of living is not high with US$. Health ins cost and medical expenses are moderate/low. Restaurants and local transportation costs are low.
In addition to the lowered cost of living, BA is a vibrant city full of art, culture, and educated people most of whom manage to maintain an equanimity, even a sense of humor, about the country's quirky problems. For an urban environment BA is still a good place to expat.

 

[CariBean]

In my opinion, it's not a bad place for retirees with a US$ income despite the inflation and other serious problems. Since the rapid increase in the parallel rate of exchange, the cost of living is not high with US$. Health ins cost and medical expenses are moderate/low. Restaurants and local transportation costs are low.
In addition to the lowered cost of living, BA is a vibrant city full of art, culture, and educated people most of whom manage to maintain an equanimity, even a sense of humor, about the country's quirky problems. For an urban environment BA is still a good place to expat.

Let's consider a few RETIREE issues for Americans:

Medical care in the US is 80% covered by Medicare. The remaining 20% can covered by an inexpensive supplemental insurance policy. That policy will be a LOT cheaper than Argentine medical insurance for people 65+. Also consider that most plans will not admit people that age to begin with.

Transportation: Every US city I can think of provides FREE public transportation for seniors. My mother, for example, can travel anywhere where she lives for FREE. She can ride GOOD suburban trains for $1 and she is entitled to a mini-van service that will pick her up and take her anywhere in the city for $4. Her helper travels free if my mother has a doctor's appointment.

Food? If she wants, my mother can have a wholesome full course lunch for $1 at the local Senior Center.

Many cultural institutions in the US offer seniors major discounts which are not available in Buenos Aires. Pick up the phone and a Senior can reserve a subsidized $25 orchestra seat for the Metropolitan Opera -- just one example.

There are many other examples of Senior services, free or very cheap in the US that don't exist here. And I think that those discounts that DO exist in Argentina will not be easily given to foreigners. I really think it is not true that BA is a desirable retirement destination.

 

[earlyretirement]

Cari, I think you make excellent points about retiree issues.

A few years ago I think Buenos Aires was a FABULOUS place to retire. Especially after the last financial crash. It was dirt cheap, salaries were super low, real estate was cheap.

People gripe and moan about medicare care in the USA. I admit there is much to be improved upon but honestly I'm paying about the same as I did in Buenos Aires with OSDE for my family. And I have an excellent plan in the USA. OSDE and all the other top programs from what I hear have gotten much more expensive. I heard it's gone up with inflation so I assume each year it's going up at least 20% to 25% or more.

I believe many of the medical insurance plans in Buenos Aires can ban you over 60 years old if they want. I think if you start before then, they won't kick you out but what if you're already over 60-65?

As far as transportation goes, many cities have excellent public transportation, especially on the East Coast. Other cities not so much. There are great programs in the USA for the elderly.

In Buenos Aires buses and subways are still dirt cheap. What I LOVE about Buenos Aires is the elderly are still walking around in their 70's and beyond! So vibrant even at an old age. I think that's one of the things I really admire about the city.

Food is NOT cheap in Argentina, especially Buenos Aires. In fact, I'd argue that it's more expensive than the USA for the most part with horrible selection and variety of food. You can eat very well in the USA for not too much money if you want to.

And as Chris mentioned, tons and tons of food programs for the elderly out there in the USA.

I'm not saying that retirement would be bad in Buenos Aires because I do plan to spend a few months out of the year in Buenos Aires when I fully retire.

The great thing in Buenos Aires is many of the elderly there own their own places. I know tons of people in their 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s that all own their places in BA. They get some kind of pension that covers their food and their expenses. For the most part they are still fairly independent but almost all of them have a helper to clean, cook, go to the grocery store for them if they want. But I admire the spirit of independence for much of the elderly in Buenos Aires.

I think the key is if you have a paid off place in BA. If not, I don't think it's such a bargain or affordable.

Sure, they have free public healthcare but the public hospitals are not a thing of beauty and no way I'd want to see my grandmother in one of these places getting healthcare.

There are upsides and downsides to retiring in Buenos Aires. Definitely having US dollars will help but you still have to face the tremendous annual inflation and red tape, restrictions and controls.

 

[CariBean]

I agree that it's best not to sell now. Wait and see what happens. My fear, though, is that the electorate is getting increasingly ignorant and could support a Cristina government forever. Extending voting rights to non citizens and kids will only make it worse.

I don't know who expats here hang out with but my Argentine friends (mostly professionals, middle class or better) are very discouraged. Some would leave in a flash if they could.

 

[earlyretirement]

Oh I wasn't saying it's not best to SELL now. My point is it's best not to BUY now. I think if you can sell now for a good price then that would be great if you can sell.

I have several friends that recently sold, including one American friend that sold his flat yesterday and he is SO very happy! Sales are still happening. Just at a very slow pace.

I also worry about Cristina trying to stay in office forever ala Chavez.

I agree about people being very discouraged. I'd love to hear about locals that are happy with the current situation or optimistic?? Heck, even the cheerleaders on this board from yesteryear mostly are gone now.

 

[TrevorOD]

To understand how Argentina is going, there is no point comparing it to Europe and the USA, need to compare apples with apples, ie compare it with economies that are similarly agricultural & commodity based, ie Canada and Australia are not a bad start. Brazil, Chile would probably be the closest in Latin America.

 

[earlyretirement]

To understand how Argentina is going, there is no point comparing it to Europe and the USA, need to compare apples with apples, ie compare it with economies that are similarly agricultural & commodity based, ie Canada and Australia are not a bad start. Brazil, Chile would probably be the closest in Latin America.

Well, I think the comparisons are between where certain expats might originally be from. I'm I am American with permanent residency also in Argentina and those are the two main places I live in..... then I'm going to compare quality of life between those two places.

I'd assume any expat from X country is going to do the same thing.

I don't really care what the quality of life is in Australia, Hong Kong or Canada compared to Buenos Aires. I'll never live in those places so I don't care how great or how terrible quality of life is there.

I only compare quality of life compared between Argentina and the USA, where I'm originally from. And I can tell you that the quality of life for my family (especially my kids) is 10000% better here in the USA.

 

[Mart]

I'm not sure if that discount plan is still available through Medicus? Someone posted earlier it wasn't.

Regular insurers are far more expensive. I was paying around 1500 (pesos) a month for OSDE 310 at age 37.

 

[earlyretirement]

I'm not sure if that discount plan is still available through Medicus? Someone posted earlier it wasn't.

Regular insurers are far more expensive. I was paying around 1500 (pesos) a month for OSDE 310 at age 37.

Yeah, no kidding. Steve if you were/are only paying 600 pesos a month I've NEVER heard of anything like that! I doubt anyone can get anything even close to that.

I was on OSDE 410 as well as my wife and kids and we were paying far more than Citygirl.

The $624 US dollars a month sounds about write what they are charging seniors over 60. It's gotten quite expensive there for private health insurance.

My mother in law who is in her early 50's is on OSDE 310 and it's not cheap at all.

 

[StiveCosae]

I'm not sure if that discount plan is still available through Medicus? Someone posted earlier it wasn't.

Regular insurers are far more expensive. I was paying around 1500 (pesos) a month for OSDE 310 at age 37.

The Medicus group plan for expats is still availabe, but it's actually Medicus coverage that is available though another expat group. There is a signup fee. PM me for details. I am only an individual who is very happy with the services provided by Medicus. I am not paid to refer others to enroll.

 

[earlyretirement]

The Medicus group plan for expats is still availabe, but it's actually Medicus coverage that is available though another expat group. There is a signup fee. PM me for details. I am only an individual who is very happy with the services provided by Medicus. I am not paid to refer others to enroll.

Wow. I've never heard of that kind of discounted rates before. Just out of curiosity Steve... how does Medicus stack up to top tier providers like OSDE?

Is it like OSDE with absolutely no deductible or co-payments?

OSDE was expensive but it was excellent! I was very happy with it and absolutely no complaints at all. We were on the 410 plan. We probably could have settled for the 310 plan as we're all very healthy and still fairly young but they really were wonderful.

If Medicus is that good like OSDE at those kinds of discounted rates it would be amazing!

 

[StiveCosae]

Wow. I've never heard of that kind of discounted rates before. Just out of curiosity Steve... how does Medicus stack up to top tier providers like OSDE?

Is it like OSDE with absolutely no deductible or co-payments?

OSDE was expensive but it was excellent! I was very happy with it and absolutely no complaints at all. We were on the 410 plan. We probably could have settled for the 310 plan as we're all very healthy and still fairly young but they really were wonderful.

If Medicus is that good like OSDE at those kinds of discounted rates it would be amazing!

My plan has no deductibles or co payments and I don't need to get pre-authorizations for doctor visits or general services prescribed by the doctor such as annual blood tests, xrays, ultrasound, etc. I just show my card and sign a form.

I Switched from Omint to Swiss (paying $600/month) in 2008 when Omint went up to $800 pesos per month and from Swiss to Medicus a few months later when I found the expat group discount and was paying Medicus $350 per month in late 2008. The rate has increased by 25% per year and is about to increase by that much again by the end of the year.


I liked the Medicus facilities in Recoleta and Belgano much more than Omint's Clinica Del Sol in Palermo....and I had the option to use hospital Aleman, Italia, or Britanico if needed.

Yeah, no kidding. Steve if you were/are only paying 600 pesos a month I've NEVER heard of anything like that! I doubt anyone can get anything even close to that.

I was on OSDE 410 as well as my wife and kids and we were paying far more than Citygirl.

The $624 US dollars a month sounds about write what they are charging seniors over 60. It's gotten quite expensive there for private health insurance.

My mother in law who is in her early 50's is on OSDE 310 and it's not cheap at all.

Well, it's unfortunate that you haven't heard of anything like this before. I have posted about it several times on other threads.

The rates I quoted above included a basic dental plan as well as travel insurance for emergencies. As previously posted the rate will increase next month by 15% and later this year by an additional 10%. All ages to 70 pay the same rate, and anyone under 68 and one half years of age can enroll. I enrolled at age 58 and my premiums have increased by the same amount as everyone else in the plan...even if they are twenty, thirty, or forty yeas younger than I am.

 

[earlyretirement]

My plan has no deductibles or co payments and I don't need to get pre-authorizations for doctor visits or general services prescribed by the doctor such as annual blood tests, xrays, ultrasound, etc. I just show my card and sign a form.

I Switched from Omint to Swiss (paying $600/month) in 2008 when Omint went up to $800 pesos per month and from Swiss to Medicus a few months later when I found the expat group discount and was paying Medicus $350 per month in late 2008. The rate has increased by 25% per year and is about to increase by that much again by the end of the year.


I liked the Medicus facilities in Recoleta and Belgano much more than Omint's Clinica Del Sol in Palermo....and I had the option to use hospital Aleman, Italia, or Britanico if needed.


Well, it's unfortunate that you haven't heard of anything like this before. I have posted about it several times on other threads.

The rates I quoted above included a basic dental plan as well as travel insurance for emergencies. As previously posted the rate will increase next month by 15% and later this year by an additional 10%. All ages to 70 pay the same rate, and anyone under 68 and one half years of age can enroll. I enrolled at age 58 and my premiums have increased by the same amount as everyone else in the plan...even if they are twenty, thirty, or forty yeas younger than I am.

Thanks so much Stive for taking the time to post this again. I have to be honest, I didn't really pay attention to many posts before. I signed up a few years ago on this board but didn't pay too much attention until recently.

I think the board is much better now and balanced. A few years ago there were a lot of "love it or leave it" types that thought CFK was the greatest thing since sliced bread!

But now it seems like people are very rational and realistic so the board is much better to me and I'm paying attention to more posts now.

Thanks again for sharing the information and taking the time to PM me back. I've always enjoyed your posts.