Does it still make sense to retire in Buenos Aires on fixed income?

[Larry]

For people earning in foreign currency, local prices have roughly 2x’d in dollar terms since December last year.

The Return of the Jaguar

Reasons for the Argentine peso gaining against the dollar and short-term outlook

www.bowtiedmara.io

 

[James Bond]

For people earning in foreign currency, local prices have roughly 2x’d in dollar terms since December last year.

The Return of the Jaguar

Reasons for the Argentine peso gaining against the dollar and short-term outlook

www.bowtiedmara.io

I read this. BowTiedMara is great on X. Fabulous content on Buenos Aires.

https://twitter.com/BowTiedMara

Buenos Aires is not as compelling of an argument for arbitrage and cheap living vs. just last year. It goes to show you how quickly things can change in Argentina. People did not give Milei enough credit for change. I have Porteño friends that moved to Spain and obviously they are making much more than in Buenos Aires. My friends in Spain spend less than in Buenos Aires now. Prices are heading up further. Move here because you love the city not because it is just a cheap destination. It will work out better that way.

 

[Avocado]

I would not recommend to come just because of lower cost of living. That is changing as we speak. Previously Argentina was very expensive. More than Paris. If you have some reason for coming then it might make sense. If only for money go to Spain or Portugal which is more stable and low cost.

 

[Jeb Spencer]

I would avoid Argentina right now until we see how things shake out. That is unless you have some reason like significant other. Many of us ended up moving here partly because of spouse or significant other that is Argentine. I'm not sure I would purposely select Buenos Aires in today's environment with inflation.

 

[Scottishgaucho]

I would avoid Argentina right now until we see how things shake out. That is unless you have some reason like significant other. Many of us ended up moving here partly because of spouse or significant other that is Argentine. I'm not sure I would purposely select Buenos Aires in today's environment with inflation.

Indeed, the only reason I'm here is because my wife is Argentine. We were living in Scotand for years and used to visit here a couple of tmes a year to see the mother in law. When it became obvious her mum was struggling to look after the busness side of things due to her health we decided to move here on a permanent basis. We already had our own house here so it was simply a case of us giving up our jobs, packing up and comīng.
There's no way I'd be here otherwise.

 

[Vince]

Indeed, the only reason I'm here is because my wife is Argentine. We were living in Scotand for years and used to visit here a couple of tmes a year to see the mother in law. When it became obvious her mum was struggling to look after the busness side of things due to her health we decided to move here on a permanent basis. We already had our own house here so it was simply a case of us giving up our jobs, packing up and comīng.
There's no way I'd be here otherwise.

Same here. Also moved here because my wife's family is all here. They don't like flying too much so it was difficult once they got older and their health started deteriorating. I do enjoy Buenos Aires enough but the lower cost of living made up for the hassles. Cost of living is still much lower than USA. I doubt we will move.

 

[Avocado]

Indeed, the only reason I'm here is because my wife is Argentine. We were living in Scotand for years and used to visit here a couple of tmes a year to see the mother in law. When it became obvious her mum was struggling to look after the busness side of things due to her health we decided to move here on a permanent basis. We already had our own house here so it was simply a case of us giving up our jobs, packing up and comīng.
There's no way I'd be here otherwise.

This same for some friends of ours. They came here for their significant other. Argentine people very close with family. It difficult to live far away. But now we have friends they go back to their home country or Spain like all of you mention. Does anyone know how property value cost in Malaga compared to Buenos Aires?

 

[MikeYoung]

I would think it would be difficult to retire anywhere that had prices bouncing around so much. I would think any retiree would need to plan ahead unless they were independently wealthy which most of us are not.

I am curious how those with businesses manage to plan ahead there? How do you do long-term planning and budget forecasting when things are so unstable and a very volatile currency?

 

[Wally]

I would think it would be difficult to retire anywhere that had prices bouncing around so much. I would think any retiree would need to plan ahead unless they were independently wealthy which most of us are not.

I am curious how those with businesses manage to plan ahead there? How do you do long-term planning and budget forecasting when things are so unstable and a very volatile currency?

Argentina is another beast with inflation and previous exchange rates between white and blue. Now the spread isn't so great so the hope is that inflation will slow down but the mindset of Argentine business owners is completely different vs first-world societies. One can't plan for the future here as easily as in a stable economy. Many businesses here are run by fairly well off families and they can ride out chaotic economic times.

I know some business owners here and they would fall into the category of well off and I ask them if they are making money and many times they are not but they personally fund the companies. Some are fine to break even or even lose money if other months they can make up for it. There does not seem to be a care in the world if they get repeat business. They only care if they generally make the monthly # they need to get to pay their bills for that month. It is a strange phenomenon. And many times even when business is bad they will raise their prices to make up for the amount they need to get to pay bills that month.

I don't own a business here and never would own a business here but judging from my wife's cousins and friends and neighbors it was a crazy scenario here and impossible to plan ahead.

 

[earlyretirement]

I would recommend what the others are saying and really decide to live in Buenos Aires because you really love the city vs. because it is affordable today. Buenos Aires goes through many shifts in cost of living. While it may be affordable today it might not be next year. I have seen cycles where expats move in and then they move out. Buenos Aires is still much more affordable vs. the USA. And I believe a better quality of life vs. the USA.

You don't need to own a car in Buenos Aires. It is very safe. Great healthcare (although I acknowledge that it is drastically rising). There is so much to see and do in Buenos Aires. The cultural diversity of things to do is what I like. There are many places in the world where you can move to and it's affordable but I would die of bordom. There is always a lot going on in Buenos Aires. Others that want a more quiet pace of life can select other cities in Argentina. There is something for everyone that I think beats the USA.

Truth is, the costs have skyrocketed on many things in first world countries as well. I do predict that Argentina continues to become more expensive as their economy improves.

I would think it would be difficult to retire anywhere that had prices bouncing around so much. I would think any retiree would need to plan ahead unless they were independently wealthy which most of us are not.

I am curious how those with businesses manage to plan ahead there? How do you do long-term planning and budget forecasting when things are so unstable and a very volatile currency?

Argentina is another beast with inflation and previous exchange rates between white and blue. Now the spread isn't so great so the hope is that inflation will slow down but the mindset of Argentine business owners is completely different vs first-world societies. One can't plan for the future here as easily as in a stable economy. Many businesses here are run by fairly well off families and they can ride out chaotic economic times.

I know some business owners here and they would fall into the category of well off and I ask them if they are making money and many times they are not but they personally fund the companies. Some are fine to break even or even lose money if other months they can make up for it. There does not seem to be a care in the world if they get repeat business. They only care if they generally make the monthly # they need to get to pay their bills for that month. It is a strange phenomenon. And many times even when business is bad they will raise their prices to make up for the amount they need to get to pay bills that month.

I don't own a business here and never would own a business here but judging from my wife's cousins and friends and neighbors it was a crazy scenario here and impossible to plan ahead.

@Wally is spot on target. I've been working in Argentina for 22 years. I've owned several corporations there and it is a crazy place to do business. I have posted about this before but many local businesses there have no sense of creating a long-term mutually beneficial partnership with their customers. They try to extract the most they can and don't care if they do business again. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule and the most successful companies there that have been around a long time have more of the USA or first world mentality of long-term mutually beneficial relationships. But unfortunately that isn't the norm there.

What Wally mentions is true. The most successful businesses there that I know are mostly charging USD for their product or services. I am not sure how some of these places make money. I look at many businesses there and sometimes I do the mental exercise of estimating their monthly expenses and then estimating their monthly income and I can't see how they are earning much money. Then you have businesses like Don Julios that are charging premium for a similar type product that you can get at other places.

It is very difficult to plan there. I remember in the mid 2000's when I owned a large business there. I thought inflation of 35% a year was crazy back then. Even making USD income and paying pesos was stressful because salaries were doubling every 3 years back then. It is difficult to plan in Argentina. It isn't a desirable country to do business in. A better plan is to work somewhere else and enjoy Buenos Aires in retirement.

 

[Scottishgaucho]

Lack of competition has a negative effect on the inflation rate here. In the city of 100,000 inhabitants where we stay there are only two proper supermarkets. Both small with poor parking facilities. Their prices are much the same as your one man run corner shop. Something which I find strange. One has to assume they're forced to keep prices high?

 

[Vince]

Lack of competition has a negative effect on the inflation rate here. In the city of 100,000 inhabitants where we stay there are only two proper supermarkets. Both small with poor parking facilities. Their prices are much the same as your one man run corner shop. Something which I find strange. One has to assume they're forced to keep prices high?

Yes this sort of thing seems normal here. I think the barriers to entry are so high in some industries. I often wonder if there is price collusion or maybe it is the same owner for both shops? In the USA people care about customers but I don't find this to mostly be the case here. There is no telling how well a store is doing here. I think many places are forced to keep raising prices in order to pay their bills.

Now that utility rates are not going to be subsidized and some reports are saying it will go up 300% or more. I would have to believe stores and restaurants are going to be hurting. Some of these places just keep their AC running all the time as it was so cheap. I wonder how restaurants will be affected by these huge utility increases. Same thing as big grocery stores.

 

[Scottishgaucho]

Yes this sort of thing seems normal here. I think the barriers to entry are so high in some industries. I often wonder if there is price collusion or maybe it is the same owner for both shops? In the USA people care about customers but I don't find this to mostly be the case here.

The fruit and veg section in La Anonima is a joke. Last week they had sealed bags of greens rotting away inside yet they were still priced at least a third more than any fruit and veg shop. It's a similar story with most of their 'fresh' produce every week. It's as if they don't care whether they sell it or not. Which makes me think they're forced to sell it at a higher price to protect the smaller shop owners.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

The point more was do you worry about prices spiraling out of control?

anyone telling you this about everyday prices in Argentina is a Peronist lying local, brigading this Expat forum. the main culprits are Avocado, Larry, and CheVos (with a couple others).

i've documented spends, grocery costs, etc. on twitter and here. do some research, look-up menus online, grocery store prices online, and come see the areas iniperson before investing anything. BsAs was fairly different from what i envisioned from Reddit/forums/YouTube.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

I can't afford for it to keep going up at these rates. Utility rates are low. But I worry about that as well if they spike up.

you should get a side job, online if possible, if you're so close to financial collapse. this is a bad model for anyone, anywhere to live in. you should always live below your means and save wealth in more forms than just a USD bank account (eggs in multiple baskets)

also, taking care of your body is much cheaper than paying for crazy medical costs, prescriptions, doctors, etc. - @sophos is a great resource for this. there truly is a financial consequence for living a lazy/sedentary/fast-food lifestyle. are you cooking with Seed Oils like sunflower/canola/margarine/etc.? (even Olive Oil shouldn't be heated-up a lot - there are free-radicals and other cancer-causing links). are you exercising to fatigue and sweat every day for 20+ minutes? are you getting sunlight daily? are you supplementing with D3/K2? are you eating whole, raw vegetables, and avoiding foods from a box/bag? if you've lived like a 6-year-old at a canival, diet-wise, you're going to have medical issues that will cause you great expense (and the Expat lifestyle isn't for 300-pound diabetics with hypertension, needing to go to a doctor every 2 weeks).

as HannibalLector said, people here sometimes conflate the cost in Argentina of these few things like Medical Insurance, as being unique to Argentina. please don't give advice here unless you know the rise in prices are unique in BsAs; most of the world is getting more expensive. this is the cost of over-regulation and crony capitalism, and the over-extension of Empire.

The only thing certain about Argentina is that things are never stable here for long. It is difficult to say if Argentina will get cheaper again but this time it feels different.

thanks for your useless political drivel, as always. "things are never stable" - "this time it feels different" - yes, because your 'good guy' politician lost. stop watching the news on TV; it's making you dumber, and we're all suffering from your stupidity.

add Flamingo to the list of Peronists. @Surfer - you won't get anything other than zealotry and ideological whining.

Poverty levels in Argentina are above 60% which will cause crime to go up and many social issues to come.

so it was a good place to retire when the Peronists were causing the 60% levels, but now that the new president is stopping the bleeding, it's a bad place? again, Larry, you leaving this forum would make it a better place. you should write less, and read more.

@Surfer Wally is a great reference. and earlyretirement. and BetsyRoss, and Vince

a feeling that in a few years time Argentina will no longer be the bargain detination it once was.

but this puts the current situation in a vacuum, just like Climate Change predictions that are always wrong. what about the increased manufacturing, decreased import taxes, overall liberties, more availability of housing, etc.? all of these changes from removing oppressive laws will bring more talented people like @BowTiedMara here. all the federal government needs to do is remove all import costs for electronics/textiles/etc. and life would become cheaper for the average person. this is easy, and i think it will happen! analyzing the economy through a single lens, in a vacuum, doesn't paint a helpful picture.

and with Spain, it may not be politically correct, but the cheap prices comes at a cost of being at the forefront of North-African-Islamist immigration, as well as the Spanish obsession perpetually with Fascism/Communism/Socialism/Collectivism. if Basque and Catalan areas seceded, i would for sure be interested in moving there to see the changes. but the EuroZone is a big risk, just like the USA and UK/Commoweath are risks.

I am not sure how long my cash will last.

come back, live here while it's cheap, and if it gets expensive fly to a close place that is cheaper. NomadCapitalist says "go where you're treated best" - this may be an ever-changing thing, whichis at the heart of the Expat lifestyle (there is no one perfect choice)

I would avoid Argentina right now until we see how things shake out. That is unless you have some reason like significant other. Many of us ended up moving here partly because of spouse or significant other that is Argentine. I'm not sure I would purposely select Buenos Aires in today's environment with inflation.

wtf? things are fine. what's with this trend that you and a few others like ScottishGaucho are spreading? are you reading commie InfoBae articles and watching Peronist TV? i've been in Argentina since before the new cabinet took over, and i keep asking you guys: what are you talking about?? other than medical insurance, which again, you are choosing to pay for that luxury service, what is so unstable? how is the inflation any different than the past 3 years?

 

[Flamingo]

The fruit and veg section in La Anonima is a joke. Last week they had sealed bags of greens rotting away inside yet they were still priced at least a third more than any fruit and veg shop. It's a similar story with most of their 'fresh' produce every week. It's as if they don't care whether they sell it or not. Which makes me think they're forced to sell it at a higher price to protect the smaller shop owners.

Totally agree with you. The large supermarkets have a horrible fruit and vegetable section. I often times find them spoiling and yet they are still there for sale. No markdown as it is getting older. I only buy these things in the chinos or corner stands that have fresh stock. I would love to understand the dynamics of why the larger stores don't just get good variety like corner markets?

you should get a side job, online if possible, if you're so close to financial collapse. this is a bad model for anyone, anywhere to live in. you should always live below your means and save wealth in more forms than just a USD bank account (eggs in multiple baskets)

also, taking care of your body is much cheaper than paying for crazy medical costs, prescriptions, doctors, etc. - @sophos is a great resource for this. there truly is a financial consequence for living a lazy/sedentary/fast-food lifestyle. are you cooking with Seed Oils like sunflower/canola/margarine/etc.? (even Olive Oil shouldn't be heated-up a lot - there are free-radicals and other cancer-causing links). are you exercising to fatigue and sweat every day for 20+ minutes? are you getting sunlight daily? are you supplementing with D3/K2? are you eating whole, raw vegetables, and avoiding foods from a box/bag? if you've lived like a 6-year-old at a canival, diet-wise, you're going to have medical issues that will cause you great expense (and the Expat lifestyle isn't for 300-pound diabetics with hypertension, needing to go to a doctor every 2 weeks).

as HannibalLector said, people here sometimes conflate the cost in Argentina of these few things like Medical Insurance, as being unique to Argentina. please don't give advice here unless you know the rise in prices are unique in BsAs; most of the world is getting more expensive. this is the cost of over-regulation and crony capitalism, and the over-extension of Empire.


thanks for your useless political drivel, as always. "things are never stable" - "this time it feels different" - yes, because your 'good guy' politician lost. stop watching the news on TV; it's making you dumber, and we're all suffering from your stupidity.

add Flamingo to the list of Peronists. @Surfer - you won't get anything other than zealotry and ideological whining.


so it was a good place to retire when the Peronists were causing the 60% levels, but now that the new president is stopping the bleeding, it's a bad place? again, Larry, you leaving this forum would make it a better place. you should write less, and read more.

@Surfer Wally is a great reference. and earlyretirement. and BetsyRoss, and Vince


but this puts the current situation in a vacuum, just like Climate Change predictions that are always wrong. what about the increased manufacturing, decreased import taxes, overall liberties, more availability of housing, etc.? all of these changes from removing oppressive laws will bring more talented people like @BowTiedMara here. all the federal government needs to do is remove all import costs for electronics/textiles/etc. and life would become cheaper for the average person. this is easy, and i think it will happen! analyzing the economy through a single lens, in a vacuum, doesn't paint a helpful picture.

and with Spain, it may not be politically correct, but the cheap prices comes at a cost of being at the forefront of North-African-Islamist immigration, as well as the Spanish obsession perpetually with Fascism/Communism/Socialism/Collectivism. if Basque and Catalan areas seceded, i would for sure be interested in moving there to see the changes. but the EuroZone is a big risk, just like the USA and UK/Commoweath are risks.


come back, live here while it's cheap, and if it gets expensive fly to a close place that is cheaper. NomadCapitalist says "go where you're treated best" - this may be an ever-changing thing, whichis at the heart of the Expat lifestyle (there is no one perfect choice)


wtf? things are fine. what's with this trend that you and a few others like ScottishGaucho are spreading? are you reading commie InfoBae articles and watching Peronist TV? i've been in Argentina since before the new cabinet took over, and i keep asking you guys: what are you talking about?? other than medical insurance, which again, you are choosing to pay for that luxury service, what is so unstable? how is the inflation any different than the past 3 years?

How can you say there is no inflation in Argentina? Are you for real? How can you say healthcare costs don't matter. Sure maybe they are going up in other countries but I can guarantee you that they are not rising 300% more in less than a year in other countries. For you to imply that is just silly. And the solution for many people is not to go uninsured.

Maybe as a tourist just paying an Airbnb you are the one that lives in a vacuum. But for those of us living a real life in Argentina with real worries and expenses the struggle is real!

 

[import export]

you should get a side job, online if possible, if you're so close to financial collapse. this is a bad model for anyone, anywhere to live in. you should always live below your means and save wealth in more forms than just a USD bank account (eggs in multiple baskets)



as HannibalLector said, people here sometimes conflate the cost in Argentina of these few things like Medical Insurance, as being unique to Argentina. please don't give advice here unless you know the rise in prices are unique in BsAs; most of the world is getting more expensive. this is the cost of over-regulation and crony capitalism, and the over-extension of Empire.


thanks for your useless political drivel, as always. "things are never stable" - "this time it feels different" - yes, because your 'good guy' politician lost. stop watching the news on TV; it's making you dumber, and we're all suffering from your stupidity.

add Flamingo to the list of Peronists. @Surfer - you won't get anything other than zealotry and ideological whining.


so it was a good place to retire when the Peronists were causing the 60% levels, but now that the new president is stopping the bleeding, it's a bad place? again, Larry, you leaving this forum would make it a better place. you should write less, and read more.

@Surfer Wally is a great reference. and earlyretirement. and BetsyRoss, and Vince


but this puts the current situation in a vacuum, just like Climate Change predictions that are always wrong. what about the increased manufacturing, decreased import taxes, overall liberties, more availability of housing, etc.? all of these changes from removing oppressive laws will bring more talented people like @BowTiedMara here. all the federal government needs to do is remove all import costs for electronics/textiles/etc. and life would become cheaper for the average person. this is easy, and i think it will happen! analyzing the economy through a single lens, in a vacuum, doesn't paint a helpful picture.

and with Spain, it may not be politically correct, but the cheap prices comes at a cost of being at the forefront of North-African-Islamist immigration, as well as the Spanish obsession perpetually with Fascism/Communism/Socialism/Collectivism. if Basque and Catalan areas seceded, i would for sure be interested in moving there to see the changes. but the EuroZone is a big risk, just like the USA and UK/Commoweath are risks.


come back, live here while it's cheap, and if it gets expensive fly to a close place that is cheaper. NomadCapitalist says "go where you're treated best" - this may be an ever-changing thing, whichis at the heart of the Expat lifestyle (there is no one perfect choice)


wtf? things are fine. what's with this trend that you and a few others like ScottishGaucho are spreading? are you reading commie InfoBae articles and watching Peronist TV? i've been in Argentina since before the new cabinet took over, and i keep asking you guys: what are you talking about?? other than medical insurance, which again, you are choosing to pay for that luxury service, what is so unstable? how is the inflation any different than the past 3 years?

Things are not as easy as you make them out to be. My novia there has two jobs already. Prices across a large basket of items including transportation, healthcare, utilities, groceries have all gone up tremendously. I am not discounting that there has not been inflation under previous administrations because there have been. But previously the government limited how much expenses went up each month. Prices in many areas were not going up by this degree. People have to get to work and pay bills and pay their utilities and expenses.

My novia, all her family members, and all her middle class friends are feeling the crunch. I don't think everyone is trying to blame one party or another. They are just saying that the struggle is real. Salaries are not going up with inflation. Many are struggling just to fill up their tank with gas. Seems strange that people are trying to argue with the true struggles of inflation that is going on when people are paying 2.5 times for fuel and food that they were paying just a few months ago.

 

[Larry]

The fruit and veg section in La Anonima is a joke. Last week they had sealed bags of greens rotting away inside yet they were still priced at least a third more than any fruit and veg shop. It's a similar story with most of their 'fresh' produce every week. It's as if they don't care whether they sell it or not. Which makes me think they're forced to sell it at a higher price to protect the smaller shop owners.

Exactly true. And this is getting worse as many locals don't have the money to pay the prices they ask. It seems stores would rather it rot then sell it for affordable prices.

anyone telling you this about everyday prices in Argentina is a Peronist lying local, brigading this Expat forum. the main culprits are Avocado, Larry, and CheVos (with a couple others).

i've documented spends, grocery costs, etc. on twitter and here. do some research, look-up menus online, grocery store prices online, and come see the areas iniperson before investing anything. BsAs was fairly different from what i envisioned from Reddit/forums/YouTube.

Are you for real or a bot? Are you really trying to tell all of us that everyday prices are not going up?? You are funny. Even Milei admits that prices are going up and continuing to go up. You have to be the only person I ever talked to or read online that try to claim there is no inflation going on for locals. Prices are going up at alarming rates in both pesos and USD prices. Government even is taking action to try to control costs at supermarket.

 

[Faith]

Indeed, the only reason I'm here is because my wife is Argentine. We were living in Scotand for years and used to visit here a couple of tmes a year to see the mother in law. When it became obvious her mum was struggling to look after the busness side of things due to her health we decided to move here on a permanent basis. We already had our own house here so it was simply a case of us giving up our jobs, packing up and comīng.
There's no way I'd be here otherwise.

Same. Husband is from here. But he may get the opportunity to change jobs. If so we might leave. I like the city fine. But the economy has a lot to be desired. Healthcare and other prices jumping around. We will probably stay as long as it is safe.

 

[FuturoBA]

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