Don't count Cristina Kirchner out for a comeback

[Avocado]

People say she is done with politics but each week that passes I hear more and more people admit they were better under Cristina than now.

Un operativo clamor y una pregunta que toma vuelo: ¿CFK presidenta del Partido Justicialista? | Dirigentes piden que la expresidenta maneje al partido peronista

Wado de Pedro, Juliana di Tulio y Mayra Mendoza fueron los primeros -en un acto de cadena- que sugirieron que la expresidenta maneje los hilos del PJ. ¿Aceptará?

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[Wally]

People say she is done with politics but each week that passes I hear more and more people admit they were better under Cristina than now.

Un operativo clamor y una pregunta que toma vuelo: ¿CFK presidenta del Partido Justicialista? | Dirigentes piden que la expresidenta maneje al partido peronista

Wado de Pedro, Juliana di Tulio y Mayra Mendoza fueron los primeros -en un acto de cadena- que sugirieron que la expresidenta maneje los hilos del PJ. ¿Aceptará?

www-pagina12-com-ar.translate.goog

Please no. But this is Argentina so anything is possible.

 

[Betsy Ross]

While I don't think Peronismo is dead, I think we can assume Cristina's political days are over.

 

[Scottishgaucho]

People say she is done with politics but each week that passes I hear more and more people admit they were better under Cristina than now.

You must hang about with the wrong type of folk then.

 

[Digital Nomad]

While I don't think Peronismo is dead, I think we can assume Cristina's political days are over.

That isn't what I am hearing from people that live here. Seems like many here still love here and miss her. I'm not sure about that jail sentence but I doubt she will serve any time. These politicians never do.

You must hang about with the wrong type of folk then.

I think the people that hated Milei and voted against him hate him even more. I think the people that really love him still do. It does seem like his approval rating has dropped a bit but not too much. But I do hear some people that still like her. The doorman in my building are always complaining how bad things are now.

 

[VINO]

Argentina is a very divided nation. Not too much different than the USA now. Almost 50% split down the middle.

 

[Avocado]

You must hang about with the wrong type of folk then.

I can't imagine that all of your friends think that Milei is doing a wonderful job? Probably the ones who supported him maybe still do and those who did not support him are even more against him.

The numbers do not lie. More people have a negative opinion of him now vs. when he started. And Cristina is speaking out more against Milei and making her way into public functions. She can blame Alberto the wife beating violent angry man. We will know soon enough by the elections in 2025.

 

[Flamingo]

If you want to know what Milei will say next just watch reruns of the West Wing. 🤡

El día que Javier Milei copió en la ONU al personaje de la serie The West Wing

En el discurso ante la Asamblea General apeló casi textual a un parlamento de Josiah Bartlet, el presidente que interpretaba Martin Sheen en el mítico show, del que es fanático Santiago Caputo

www.lanacion.com.ar

 

[Larry]

If you want to know what Milei will say next just watch reruns of the West Wing. 🤡

El día que Javier Milei copió en la ONU al personaje de la serie The West Wing

En el discurso ante la Asamblea General apeló casi textual a un parlamento de Josiah Bartlet, el presidente que interpretaba Martin Sheen en el mítico show, del que es fanático Santiago Caputo

www.lanacion.com.ar

Parts of his speech were copied word for word. Too surreal to make up.

Argentina’s Javier Milei accused of plagiarising UN speech from West Wing

Populist leader alleged to have ‘copied word for word’ a monologue by TV show’s fictional president Jed Bartlet

www.theguardian.com

 

[VINO]

I can't imagine that all of your friends think that Milei is doing a wonderful job? Probably the ones who supported him maybe still do and those who did not support him are even more against him.

The numbers do not lie. More people have a negative opinion of him now vs. when he started. And Cristina is speaking out more against Milei and making her way into public functions. She can blame Alberto the wife beating violent angry man. We will know soon enough by the elections in 2025.

You must hang about with the wrong type of folk then.

If you talk to many expats they also are not happy with Milei or think he is doing a great job. Sure inflation has slowed down but still a lot of problems and cost of living has gone up. I get that many will say we just want a high blue dollar which is a fair argument. I don't want to see locals suffering but I just think the cost in dollars here is too expensive relative to wages.

I am very curious to see what happens if the government ever ends the CEPO. Many say that once the government stops interfering and just let the market dictate how strong the peso is that it will get weaker. I don't understand how a really strong peso helps and doesn't hurt in some ways.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

the Ks fleeced Argentina for so many years, stole land and sold it to enrich themselves, and live the literal opposite (luxury and decadence) that they impose on their people (asceticism and intentional poverty), yet cultists will continue to worship a DearLeader because of decades of false dialectical between Evil Capitalists and Angelic Communists/Peronists

Argentina's first couple deliver prosperity – for themselves

Nestor and Cristina Kirchner have increased their wealth six times over despite economic downturn

www.theguardian.com

The Argentinian First Family's Shady Real Estate Deals

EL CALAFATE - This town of around 8,000 in Patagonia holds a particular place in the world of Argentinian President Cristina Kirchner. It is full of luxurious hotels that are open, but with barely any tourists, at least now in the (Southern Hemisphere’s) winter. It was full of stray dogs a few...

worldcrunch.com

why no outrage by the commies that the Ks stole land and are billionaires? these doormen complaining about the country...were they always complaining for their entire lives as the country was mired in third-world crap? i highly doubt anyone with libertarian tendencies suddenly gave-up on the intent of their candidate to cut spending and have a harsh 2 years....10 months in. i think commies create these caricatures of "regretful" people.

Milei is doing literally what his party said: cutting spending and allowing investment.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842907631033196784

Official Dollar and Blue Dollar are narrowing. real estate market going up finally. loans available. Amazon coming here. grocery store shelves are stocked and prices are stable or down in Pesos....what, exactly, are they complaining about? utilities going up 3x in price, and no more free Welfare handouts?

 

[Vince]

the Ks fleeced Argentina for so many years, stole land and sold it to enrich themselves, and live the literal opposite (luxury and decadence) that they impose on their people (asceticism and intentional poverty), yet cultists will continue to worship a DearLeader because of decades of false dialectical between Evil Capitalists and Angelic Communists/Peronists

Argentina's first couple deliver prosperity – for themselves

Nestor and Cristina Kirchner have increased their wealth six times over despite economic downturn

www.theguardian.com

The Argentinian First Family's Shady Real Estate Deals

EL CALAFATE - This town of around 8,000 in Patagonia holds a particular place in the world of Argentinian President Cristina Kirchner. It is full of luxurious hotels that are open, but with barely any tourists, at least now in the (Southern Hemisphere’s) winter. It was full of stray dogs a few...

worldcrunch.com

why no outrage by the commies that the Ks stole land and are billionaires? these doormen complaining about the country...were they always complaining for their entire lives as the country was mired in third-world crap? i highly doubt anyone with libertarian tendencies suddenly gave-up on the intent of their candidate to cut spending and have a harsh 2 years....10 months in. i think commies create these caricatures of "regretful" people.

Milei is doing literally what his party said: cutting spending and allowing investment.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842907631033196784

Official Dollar and Blue Dollar are narrowing. real estate market going up finally. loans available. Amazon coming here. grocery store shelves are stocked and prices are stable or down in Pesos....what, exactly, are they complaining about? utilities going up 3x in price, and no more free Welfare handouts?

There are come CFK lifers that don't care what is happening. They will continue to support her. The poverty rates could fall, salaries can go up and unemployment rates go up. What I have learned here is some people will complain no matter what and want it better and think CFK or another Peronista will provide it.

The same thing is happening in the States now. The Democrats have allowed millions of illegal aliens to cross the border, they are bankrupting the country, and doing things I have never seen in my lifetime. Americans see this yet 50% of the population will support them even if they can't afford to pay their grocery bill or their bills or get by. Many are perfectly fine to go down with the ship and blame the other party.

 

[Jerome]

what, exactly, are they complaining about? utilities going up 3x in price, and no more free Welfare handouts?

I don't pretend to understand Argentina but I read some of these increases. What do you think would happen in the United States if they raised the subway or bus 800% over a year. You would have rioting and protests here too. I talked to someone that told me their electricity bills went up 4 time over a few months. If that happened here there would be major problems too. Many of my friends are living paycheck to paycheck. They couldn't handle that kind of increase.

 

[Larry]

he Ks fleeced Argentina for so many years, stole land and sold it to enrich themselves, and live the literal opposite (luxury and decadence) that they impose on their people (asceticism and intentional poverty), yet cultists will continue to worship a DearLeader because of decades of false dialectical between Evil Capitalists and Angelic Communists/Peronists

It may be true that the K's enriched themselves. But that happens in every country in Argentina and you don't think all the other Presidents of Argentina didn't enrich themselves? They did too.

The difference is people could have a living wage and afford to live a normal life. These changes with the chainsaw are making it so poor and middle class can't get by.

I don't pretend to understand Argentina but I read some of these increases. What do you think would happen in the United States if they raised the subway or bus 800% over a year. You would have rioting and protests here too. I talked to someone that told me their electricity bills went up 4 time over a few months. If that happened here there would be major problems too. Many of my friends are living paycheck to paycheck. They couldn't handle that kind of increase.

That is right. If they raised the transportation 800% anywhere people wouldn't stand for it. All utilities have skyrocketed. Not just electricity. Water too. They say gas won't go up this month. Let's see. All expenses have gone up crazy amounts. Don't buy this 4% MoM inflation lies. Add up the true costs of getting by here including paying bills and it is very high.

 

[Uncle Wong]

From outsider looking in with no stake in the outcome I can understand both sides. Rates looked low on things like buses or subways but these kind of monster increases don't make much sense to me. I would think it makes more sense to raise them and then steadily raise them more each year as people's salaries go up if the economy gets better. Raising all of these things during a recession so much seems like you already have 50% that already hate you and if things take too long to improve eventually people will probably fold.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

yet 50% of the population will support them

ah, you just explained all of human political history - as South Park said, "it's always between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich"

i think the poison of Populism has done its job for the elites - make us peasants argue over trivial things, while Epstein's client list isn't released, and we're bombing dozens of countries that are no threat to the citizens at home.

"populism as a phenomenon that is parasitical on (because internal to) representative democracy, which is its true and radical target. This rivalry, I argue, does not necessarily produce more democratic politics, although this is populism's claim. As for its phenomenology, populism is a certain political style or set of rhetorical tropes and figures, yet is more than that because it seeks also state power to implement a political agenda whose main and recognizable character is hostility against liberalism and the principles of constitutional democracy, in particular minority rights, division of powers, and party pluralism. Although 'we simply do not have anything like a theory of populism', in this article I propose the following generalization from historical experience: a populist movement that succeeds in leading the government of a democratic society tend to move toward institutional forms and a political reorganization of the state that change, and even shatter constitutional democracy, like centralization of power, weakening of checks and balances, disregard of political oppositions, and the transformation of election in a plebiscite of the leader." https://shs.cairn.info/revue-raisons-politiques-2013-3-page-137?lang=fr

did the Roman tyrants do anything different than Peron did? promise things, do the opposite actions, give bread and circuses, and rule ruthlessly while seeking more and more power, with occasional tidbits of freedom/'free stuff' to the ever-increasing lower class.

i would even posit another theory, that the most-free countries have the most middle class. conversely, i suspect countries where there is no middle class are likely the most authoritarian and populist/communist

for Peronists and victims of Populism (the oldest politician trick in the book to maintain the power of the Aristocracy), there is always an "evil man" to oppose; look how brainwashed Flamingo, Avocado, Larry etc. here are. Milei could turn Argentina into a utopia, and the Ks could admit they were demons, and these zealots would never change their mind because they are on the side of the angels

Sowell talked about this in 2013: "You can just call 'medical care for all' a 'right' and you are home free with a major part of the public. Those who are more skeptical can be dismissed as people who just are not as compassionate. That puts you on the side of the angels against the forces of evil — and that is a proven winning strategy in politics." https://www.dispatch.com/story/opin...as-sowell-commentary-politics-is/23999732007/

replace 'free' healthcare with subsidized train/bus fares, and subsidized utility bills, and you've got the same phenomenon in Argentina; the people can be fleeced by the Ks forever, if they believe a true-evil dictator is trying to take their country. sadly, the ones seeking to grow their power (Ks and Peron) are the ones committing murder and evil acts to destroy the country, whereas those who reduce their own power (Milei, Massie in the USA, Ron Paul back in the day) are actually in the right

and the commies will lie about anything @Jerome - when i moved to Buenos Aires, there were billboards that said Milei would be selling human organs on MercadoLibre. i still have yet to find any in the USA, Trump will say Kamala is a communist, though he did most of the same policies when he was in, and Kamala will say Trump is a dictator Hitler who tried to coup the federal government, yet Trump was in power and left power just like any other president. it's all a joke, and it's like being tribal to a sports team and wanting to fight the other fans....keep us distracted, so you can take our rights away and inflate-away our spending power every year :/

I don't pretend to understand Argentina but I read some of these increases. What do you think would happen in the United States if they raised the subway or bus 800% over a year. You would have rioting and protests here too. I talked to someone that told me their electricity bills went up 4 time over a few months. If that happened here there would be major problems too. Many of my friends are living paycheck to paycheck. They couldn't handle that kind of increase.

this is the image the populists will lie to you about. be careful listening to @Larry @Flamingo @Avocado who are peronists that brigade this Expat forum - you won't hear any nuance other than "Milei evil" - and they will say anything to justify their tribal superstitions. in reality, there is a HUGE amount of hidden weath in Argentina. of course there are poor people, like any country, but the national debt and currency problems were so bad in 2023 that the people elected the Liberty Advances party to get the economy de-regulated. the first step of that is to stop giving out 'free' sh*t. imagine if in Atlanta you could hide income, claim to be poor, and get 80% of your electricity bill paid for as long as you voted for Harris....and then once Harris was out of office as VP, you ended up having to pay the normal amount of utilities, but someone claimed they "went up 800%" - would you riot? only the 5% loud minority would

in addition, the federal government has no business using taxes to give people artificially-low bus/train tickets. this is provincial/city matter; any Governor or local leader can choose to subsidize these things. no one has, because it's unsustainable and destroys the value of the Peso. if you want a good follow on X/twitter, follow www.w.com/BowTiedMara

@Uncle Wong when you have a cancer tumor, do you cut it out slowly piece by piece, or do you remove the whole thing? some ideas are destructive to the society/economy, like artificial Sube prices and utility-bill handouts. in a free market, people choose to not run their utilities as long, since they have to pay for the costs fully, they insulate their walls and windows. they don't take the bus/train for nonsense multiple errands, and instead become more efficient. these are all realities that Argentina has to face, after living in a fantasy land for decades. the people who voted for "chainsaw" extreme cuts understand that austerity for 2 years means no gov't pet projects for 2 years. again: the local governments can subsidize utilities and buses...why do you think they haven't done it?

 

[IrishLad]

@Uncle Wong when you have a cancer tumor, do you cut it out slowly piece by piece, or do you remove the whole thing? some ideas are destructive to the society/economy, like artificial Sube prices and utility-bill handouts. in a free market, people choose to not run their utilities as long, since they have to pay for the costs fully, they insulate their walls and windows. they don't take the bus/train for nonsense multiple errands, and instead become more efficient. these are all realities that Argentina has to face, after living in a fantasy land for decades. the people who voted for "chainsaw" extreme cuts understand that austerity for 2 years means no gov't pet projects for 2 years. again: the local governments can subsidize utilities and buses...why do you think they haven't done it?

Using that same analogy many people are saying like a cancer patient, Milei is not just doing chemo, he is cutting off not only the leg but he is cutting off all the body pieces too aggressively. People might not disagree with slowly treating that cancer but what he is doing is too much too soon and it will kill the patient.

 

[Bill]

this is the image the populists will lie to you about. be careful listening to @Larry @Flamingo @Avocado who are peronists that brigade this Expat forum - you won't hear any nuance other than "Milei evil" - and they will say anything to justify their tribal superstitions. in reality, there is a HUGE amount of hidden weath in Argentina. of course there are poor people, like any country, but the national debt and currency problems were so bad in 2023 that the people elected the Liberty Advances party to get the economy de-regulated. the first step of that is to stop giving out 'free' sh*t. imagine if in Atlanta you could hide income, claim to be poor, and get 80% of your electricity bill paid for as long as you voted for Harris....and then once Harris was out of office as VP, you ended up having to pay the normal amount of utilities, but someone claimed they "went up 800%" - would you riot? only the 5% loud minority would

This forum seems balanced with some people that like Milei and some that don't. I seriously doubt anyone in any country wouldn't be up in arms if their utility bill went up 800% in a span of a few months. I like much of what this President is doing but I just can't see a successful path just squeezing the lower and middle class. His plan seems to be just getting people to spend their savings they have. I know several that are low to middle class that just always saved in pesos. They would convert each time they got paid whatever they had left and these people are spending their savings just to get by.

This isn't a long term solution putting all of this on the backs of this group of people.

 

[James Bond]

While I don't think Peronismo is dead, I think we can assume Cristina's political days are over.

@Betsy Ross come on. You have lived in Argentina long enough to know never to count CFK out of the race. People are getting too confident. With Alberto going down in flames she can blame it all on him and depending on how things go in 2025 she might be able to blame Milei too even though she is to blame for much of this.

 

[legend]

According to Cristina, "unity needs direction and a plan to build the best Peronism possible in an Argentina that has become impossible for most of its inhabitants." What does she think? That she's going to save the world? We all know that her style of government has always been and will always be "welfare dependency." She has a basic and outdated view of politics and economics, and honestly, we don't need that. Plus, she's corrupt. With Milei in charge, things are finally getting back on track, and even though it's a tough sacrifice for many, I prefer it over this terrible figure who ruined the country with her policies.

Cristina Kirchner se lanzó como candidata a presidir el PJ Nacional y pidió la unidad del peronismo: “Hay que enderezar lo que se torció”

La ex mandataria publicó una nueva carta en la que realizó un breve repaso histórico de las últimas presidencias para exponer el presente del partido justicialista. Agradeció el operativo clamor para que se postule: "Nunca he ocupado un lugar sin tener la certeza de estar capacitada para la...

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