Got a job offer to relocate to Buenos Aires - Worth it with 3 children? What budget would I need?

[travelpro]

DO NOT move to BA if you do not speak fluent Spanish and also have local contacts.

Why?

 

[ChaChaK]

You will get totally ripped off and scammed. Continuously. I have worked and lived in more than 10 countries and Argentina has been the worst by far - it is a disaster! I am trilingual and even with no language barrier, I was ripped off (thousands of dollars) my first year in BA. I cannot imagine the pressure of also raising 3 small children in this environment. I suppose if you live in an expat community and only work with expats, you could get by. But chances are that would entail a much higher cost of living than locals.

 

[travelpro]

You will get totally ripped off and scammed. Continuously. I have worked and lived in more than 10 countries and Argentina has been the worst by far - it is a disaster! I am trilingual and even with no language barrier, I was ripped off (thousands of dollars) my first year in BA. I cannot imagine the pressure of also raising 3 small children in this environment. I suppose if you live in an expat community and only work with expats, you could get by. But chances are that would entail a much higher cost of living than locals.

That is terrible. We lived in Mexico City and not speaking Spanish we still got by. My company will help us with contacts. All of my team in BA all speaks English. @ChaChaK can you explain how you got ripped off of thousands of dollars? That is not nice to hear.

I do worry about my kids but they would be enrolled at an all English school. As I understand it, most of the kids are expats's children. We hope to make local friends but admittedly I will probably be in an expat bubble. But my friend that lived in BA managed ok. She did not have children however. She became friends with many of her co-workers who are all locals.

I would love to hear how you got scammed so I can avoid that. We did hear the scam factor in BA was much higher than other places. Thank you for your warning.

 

[Finance Prof]

You will get totally ripped off and scammed. Continuously. I have worked and lived in more than 10 countries and Argentina has been the worst by far - it is a disaster! I am trilingual and even with no language barrier, I was ripped off (thousands of dollars) my first year in BA. I cannot imagine the pressure of also raising 3 small children in this environment. I suppose if you live in an expat community and only work with expats, you could get by. But chances are that would entail a much higher cost of living than locals.

I think the warning about possibly raising kids here is a valid point. It is one thing to move alone with no kids but complicated when you add children into the mix. Especially in a country like Argentina that is not stable. I don't think it is dangerous. Just stressful to worry about things without worrying about kids, school, education, language barriers.

Also if you are trying to work with a fixed budget this is not the best environment. Prices can jump up suddenly on any number of things. Do some research and read some posts. Things like HOA fees can jump up. Utilities are still cheap compared to the US but they can jump up and especially private school tuition keeps going up.

If you work for a major company they will have people they can recommend but it still can be challenging. A few expats I know have left in the past year. It made sense before but they increasingly just found more hassles than upsides.

 

[earlyretirement]

You will get totally ripped off and scammed. Continuously. I have worked and lived in more than 10 countries and Argentina has been the worst by far - it is a disaster! I am trilingual and even with no language barrier, I was ripped off (thousands of dollars) my first year in BA. I cannot imagine the pressure of also raising 3 small children in this environment. I suppose if you live in an expat community and only work with expats, you could get by. But chances are that would entail a much higher cost of living than locals.

I think it is ok to be cautious but any expat coming here with a job move will have plenty of resources vs. the typical expat that doesn't know anyone here. What I WILL say is the scam factor is much much higher in Buenos Aires vs. places like Mexico City. I own a few places in Mexico and I'm also a permanent resident there and do some business there. Mexicans are MUCH harder workers than Argentines. It's not even close. And I would say Mexicans for the most part have less scams where they will provide X service and charge you the same as a local. Where here there is a lot of games and people try to charge you more if you're a gringo. I see that all the time.

For example, I formally owned the largest property management company in Argentina. We were managing hundreds of properties and we worked with most of the big corporations housing their employees and expats. They had local resources, but almost all of them would always contact our company and ask for different people that their company was recommending because prices would be sometimes 2X 3X or even 4X the price just because they were foreigners.

For example, you will get painters here or other tradesmen that will try to charge you insane prices just because you are a foreigner. Some foreigners that contacted us got quoted insane amounts of money to paint their apartment. There are a lot of scams here. People have the propensity to try to scam you and then their excuse is if you are dumb enough to fall for it then it's your fault. A real life example is President Milei and the Libra scam. That gives you an idea of the thought process of many people here. Instead of apologizing they will try to say you are the idiot. That is Argentina in a nutshell.

I would probably agree that it's not the best place to relocate to if you have 3 young kids and none of them speak Spanish and you are on a budget. With kids, you aren't going to be able to do things affordably here when you factor in private schools for all of them. Housing is not much but I'm not sure it would be a hassle free experience.

Argentines love kids so no problems there. I had 2 kids born in Buenos Aires but I didn't want to raise them in Buenos Aires. We moved to the USA one my oldest was 3 as I wanted them to go to school in the USA and don't regret it for a minute.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Hi @travelpro,

You are getting some good advice on this thread. It's great that you have experience living in other Latin American countries. I am not sure how old your other children are but if they are very young and won't have school then you would save some money but the advice is correct about private schooling.

I have 3 children, 2 of which were born in Buenos Aires. We moved from Buenos Aires back to the USA once my oldest was 3 years old as I didn't want to raise them in Buenos Aires. I'm not sure how long your potential work assignment is. I happen to love Buenos Aires and could have made it work raising them in BA.

You have to be careful and things like "comfortable" or "good life" are all subjective terms. It can mean different things to different people. Obviously the more "comfortable" life you live the more it's going to cost. Prices have jumped up since the middle of 2023 when your friend was living there. Things like education, healthcare, restaurants, insurance have all jumped up considerably. Things like utilities are still much cheaper than the USA or even Mexico when you calculate cost per kWh. By that standard they are still "cheap" but you will hear many locals complaining because they were accustomed to super low subsidized pricing so when you hear them say it is expensive it's relative. Expensive means different things to different people.

You can spend a reasonable amount or you can spend a LOT of money in BA. For what you're asking for a larger 4 bedroom property you will pay quite a bit of money to rent a furnished property. I have a lot of friends in Buenos Aires that have 3 or 4 bedroom properties and just their HOA bill alone now is $800 to $900 USD per month. Some of these apartments are the only one on the floor or only 2 units in the floor so their share of expenses are higher. I don't think you will spend less than $2,000 to $2,500 USD per month or more on a property if it's in a desirable area and it's well furnished.

Medical expenses will vastly vary just depending on which company and plan but it is much higher than when your friend was here. To give you an example I'm paying over $525 USD per month for an employee with 1 child. And that is on a mid-level OSDE 310 plan. Not the best and not the worst. A higher plan and I think the other people giving you estimates are correct.

I dine out a lot and you can spend an absolute fortune on that in Buenos Aires. The advice to get a full-time maid or one that comes daily and will cook and clean is a good idea. Not always easy to find that right now but that would make the most sense from cost perspective.

I think the estimates are all reasonable. I think you would need a minimum of at least $7,000 USD per month and obviously it could be much higher depending on what activities you do. Buenos Aires is not nearly as affordable as it was before. And keep in mind inflation is still a factor. Monthly inflation is at least 3% a month and certain things you will hear about prices jumping up more than that.

Don't let people scare you though. You can get by for the most part cheaper than you can live in the USA but it will depend on what kind of lifestyle you lived. I don't think I could get by in BA for less than $10k a month with 3 kids going to private schools but that is a fraction of what we spend in the USA so things are relative.

I've posted this before on other posts about budgeting and cost of living.

In my experience, people always underestimate what they will spend vs. overestimate. Everyone should be making a very detailed spreadsheet of All their expenses that they spend in their home country before they make a move. You should know your costs of what you're spending now. I know exactly what I'm spending each month. But before you move add in all your expenses. Here is my list below. You may have others to add to this.

-Rent (if you don't own your property)
- Property taxes if you own
-Phone (Land line and Cell phone) for each member of your family that will have a phone
- Utilities (gas, water, electricity, cable, internet, etc)
- HOA fees/expensas each month
- Maintenance and repairs (if you own a property)
- Car payments
- Car insurance
- Auto Fuel each month for each car
- Registration fees for your car each year
- Maintenance on your car to include car washes and oil changes
-Parking (various times when you're out and about plus if you don't have a garage in your apartment and have to rent one) Parking has really jumped up in Buenos Aires over the past 2 years.
- Home/rental insurance for your property
- Life insurance
- Health insurance premiums
- Dental insurance premiums
- Medical/Dental expenses (what insurance won't cover)
- Prescription medications
- School expenses for kids if applicable (tuition, stuff for school, ballet classes, etc)
- Babysitter expenses
- Annual fee for Credit Cards
- Clothes for kids and yourself
- Toys for kids
- Dry Cleaning and laundry expenses
- Health club / gym
- Taxi/Uber fares which are inevitable.
- Beauty (hair salon for hair cuts, color, nails, make up, massages, etc)
- Extracurricular activities dues/fees
- Entertainment (movies, theatre, plays, Zoo, concerts, sporting events, etc --)
- Magazine/newspaper/Ipad app subscriptions
- Dining out at restaurants
- Grocery budget
- Retirement savings contributions
- Kids college fund savings contributions
- Charity/donations
- Travel / vacation expenses
- Federal/State/local income taxes
- Any revolving debt payments you might have
- Bad habit type stuff (alcohol, smoking, etc)
- Emergency savings fund for any major health issues
- Non reimbursed office/work expenses and supplies

One final thing I will say is moving with kids can be a stressful situation not only for the kids but also adults. I'm not sure if your husband works from home or if he works remote, etc. But doing this with kids is always much more difficult situation vs. moving alone or with just adults. Moving international is a stressful situation as I'm sure you already know if you've moved to Mexico City and São Paulo. I'm not sure if you did that when you had kids or not but needless to say it is a vastly different experience. The added stress of schooling and language barriers can be stressful.

I think Buenos Aires is a fabulous city. I know many friends and clients that have moved here and were successful but there were still some growing pains. I'm not sure if you already visited Buenos Aires before? What I would suggest before you even think about it is come and visit the city and some of the schools. Go to your office and make that commute that you'd be making if you were to live outside. Meet with a few realtors and ask your company if they would help with finding a place. That is not always an easy process. That process in and of itself can be very stressful. Renting here isn't as easy as most places around the world.

But come here and see in detail and give yourself a glimpse of what your life would look like here before making the move with the family.

Great detailed list of expenses! You got everything covered on that list @earlyretirement!

I think it is ok to be cautious but any expat coming here with a job move will have plenty of resources vs. the typical expat that doesn't know anyone here. What I WILL say is the scam factor is much much higher in Buenos Aires vs. places like Mexico City. I own a few places in Mexico and I'm also a permanent resident there and do some business there. Mexicans are MUCH harder workers than Argentines. It's not even close. And I would say Mexicans for the most part have less scams where they will provide X service and charge you the same as a local. Where here there is a lot of games and people try to charge you more if you're a gringo. I see that all the time.

For example, I formally owned the largest property management company in Argentina. We were managing hundreds of properties and we worked with most of the big corporations housing their employees and expats. They had local resources, but almost all of them would always contact our company and ask for different people that their company was recommending because prices would be sometimes 2X 3X or even 4X the price just because they were foreigners.

For example, you will get painters here or other tradesmen that will try to charge you insane prices just because you are a foreigner. Some foreigners that contacted us got quoted insane amounts of money to paint their apartment. There are a lot of scams here. People have the propensity to try to scam you and then their excuse is if you are dumb enough to fall for it then it's your fault. A real life example is President Milei and the Libra scam. That gives you an idea of the thought process of many people here. Instead of apologizing they will try to say you are the idiot. That is Argentina in a nutshell.

I would probably agree that it's not the best place to relocate to if you have 3 young kids and none of them speak Spanish and you are on a budget. With kids, you aren't going to be able to do things affordably here when you factor in private schools for all of them. Housing is not much but I'm not sure it would be a hassle free experience.

Argentines love kids so no problems there. I had 2 kids born in Buenos Aires but I didn't want to raise them in Buenos Aires. We moved to the USA one my oldest was 3 as I wanted them to go to school in the USA and don't regret it for a minute.

The scams here are high. It is true here people that try to cheat you will blame you if you get conned. They justify that you should know better. The way to go is only using someone that you know referred. It can be a jungle here otherwise. There is a learning curve here but without contacts you are really dead here.

 

[Todd]

I had 2 kids born in Buenos Aires but I didn't want to raise them in Buenos Aires. We moved to the USA one my oldest was 3 as I wanted them to go to school in the USA and don't regret it for a minute.

Why didn't you want to raise them in Buenos Aires?

 

[Anchor Baby]

Why?

I think that is harsh. There definitely is a learning curve here. We moved last year with a 3 year old. We also previously lived in DF. DF was MUCH easier vs. BA. DF also was much more similar to the US with many great grocery stores and supermarkets. By and large here the supermarkets are pathetic compared to DF or anywhere in the USA.

When you hear it is cheap or expensive here you need to keep in mind it's all relative to where people are from. MANY expats came here for the cheap prices and that is it. And those are the ones that are complaining the most.

But I agree that prices went up significantly from last year if you factor in restaurants. Our condo fee in our apartment jumped up about 170% from when we started our lease. At the end of the day we spend about 65% less than we spent in the US.

It is very safe here with kids. You can have a high quality of life if you are making a dollar income. Maybe not as cheap as it was but it is still cheaper than the US. Europeans here consider it very expensive. I always hear people complaining from Europe because restaurants here are expensive. Clothes and electronics are VERY expensive. Groceries are about US prices on many items.

One thing I will say is services are terrible here. Customer service and selection of products is also bad in most places. You can find inexpensive meals by going off the beaten path a little. If something is expensive in Palermo you can typically find it cheaper in another neighborhood that is not as affluent. For locals it is very expensive. It is easy to spend money dining out here.

 

[James Bond]

I think that is harsh. There definitely is a learning curve here. We moved last year with a 3 year old. We also previously lived in DF. DF was MUCH easier vs. BA. DF also was much more similar to the US with many great grocery stores and supermarkets. By and large here the supermarkets are pathetic compared to DF or anywhere in the USA.

When you hear it is cheap or expensive here you need to keep in mind it's all relative to where people are from. MANY expats came here for the cheap prices and that is it. And those are the ones that are complaining the most.

But I agree that prices went up significantly from last year if you factor in restaurants. Our condo fee in our apartment jumped up about 170% from when we started our lease. At the end of the day we spend about 65% less than we spent in the US.

It is very safe here with kids. You can have a high quality of life if you are making a dollar income. Maybe not as cheap as it was but it is still cheaper than the US. Europeans here consider it very expensive. I always hear people complaining from Europe because restaurants here are expensive. Clothes and electronics are VERY expensive. Groceries are about US prices on many items.

One thing I will say is services are terrible here. Customer service and selection of products is also bad in most places. You can find inexpensive meals by going off the beaten path a little. If something is expensive in Palermo you can typically find it cheaper in another neighborhood that is not as affluent. For locals it is very expensive. It is easy to spend money dining out here.

This is a good summary. Customer service is terrible in Argentina. Things like rentals and real estate can be bargains there but things like restaurants are very poor value compared to Europe. Here in Spain food is very affordable. Most of Europe actually. You will hear Europeans complaining more than others because food is inexpensive in Europe.
You will find a lot of videos like this saying Argentina is expensive -

 

[ChaChaK]

That is terrible. We lived in Mexico City and not speaking Spanish we still got by. My company will help us with contacts. All of my team in BA all speaks English. @ChaChaK can you explain how you got ripped off of thousands of dollars? That is not nice to hear.

I do worry about my kids but they would be enrolled at an all English school. As I understand it, most of the kids are expats's children. We hope to make local friends but admittedly I will probably be in an expat bubble. But my friend that lived in BA managed ok. She did not have children however. She became friends with many of her co-workers who are all locals.

I would love to hear how you got scammed so I can avoid that. We did hear the scam factor in BA was much higher than other places. Thank you for your warning.

I was scammed in so many ways. Here's a few: Someone paid me in USD 700 cash and it turned out to be counterfeit bills. They are hard to detect, you need to practice. I bought a "refurbished" stainless fridge, and it broke down after a couple of weeks. I had a tech come to repair it, and he said it had been messed with to LOOK like it would work, something with the fluids...but that it could not be repaired in any way. I ordered a couch and bought it on a credit card. When it came, it was the wrong color. The representative who brought it kept insisting it was the right color. It took me quite a while to figure out how to explain to him that the color was wrong. I had maybe 5 Facebook market scams when I tried to buy some furniture used (new stuff of quality is prohibitely expensive). I hired guys with a truck, because no one transports used stuff (usually) - you have to go get it. So, for example, I bought a used patio furniture set, but when my guys arrived to pick it up, there was substantial damage to 2 of the pieces in the set. Not only did the pictures NOT show the damage, but also the seller told me there was no damage at all (sin detalles). Since the guys with the truck drove an hour to get this furniture, she had me in a tight spot, which of course what she wanted to happen. So she started offering discounts if I would still take the furniture. I refused on principle, but of course I had to pay the guys and the truck rental. I COULD TELL YOU 20 STORIES LIKE THESE. Lying is institutionalized here. Even in legal processes! I have a very pricy lawyer for a lawsuit I am in process with, and on the initial complaint he instructed me what to write, and there were several lies! He said this is the way it is done in Argentina. I rented a country home over the holidays, many family members were coming from several countries. Turns out I was charged DOUBLE what similar places were charging. This landlord lied to me in writing and also verbally. He ruined the entire family experience I wanted and I had spent more than USD 20,000, about half of that to him. I have bought things on MercadoLibre that were advertised as returnable, but the seller later refused to let me return them. Almost every transaction here is different than other places. Each one is frought with suspicious or hidden, untruthful information. So, to do things right and protect yourself, it takes much more time to transact. That's why I said what I did about raising 3 little ones. I did that too, and we lived in Italy for a while with no concerns - nothing at all like Argentina. Your time raising and being with your kids without stress and anxiety will be much less in Argentina. Unless you only transact with the expat community, which for me would be virtually impossible. And if possible, probably will cost you double, eating into the "lower costs" you expected. I could write a book.....

 

[CraigM]

Mexicans are MUCH harder workers than Argentines.

That's interesting Mike. Most of my life I've heard about Argentinians being lazy but of course how would I know. My friend in BA was dating a local and at one point she told him "I'm a lazy person from a lazy country". We had a lot of laughs about that.

 

[Giovanni]

I was scammed in so many ways. Here's a few: Someone paid me in USD 700 cash and it turned out to be counterfeit bills. They are hard to detect, you need to practice. I bought a "refurbished" stainless fridge, and it broke down after a couple of weeks. I had a tech come to repair it, and he said it had been messed with to LOOK like it would work, something with the fluids...but that it could not be repaired in any way. I ordered a couch and bought it on a credit card. When it came, it was the wrong color. The representative who brought it kept insisting it was the right color. It took me quite a while to figure out how to explain to him that the color was wrong. I had maybe 5 Facebook market scams when I tried to buy some furniture used (new stuff of quality is prohibitely expensive). I hired guys with a truck, because no one transports used stuff (usually) - you have to go get it. So, for example, I bought a used patio furniture set, but when my guys arrived to pick it up, there was substantial damage to 2 of the pieces in the set. Not only did the pictures NOT show the damage, but also the seller told me there was no damage at all (sin detalles). Since the guys with the truck drove an hour to get this furniture, she had me in a tight spot, which of course what she wanted to happen. So she started offering discounts if I would still take the furniture. I refused on principle, but of course I had to pay the guys and the truck rental. I COULD TELL YOU 20 STORIES LIKE THESE. Lying is institutionalized here. Even in legal processes! I have a very pricy lawyer for a lawsuit I am in process with, and on the initial complaint he instructed me what to write, and there were several lies! He said this is the way it is done in Argentina. I rented a country home over the holidays, many family members were coming from several countries. Turns out I was charged DOUBLE what similar places were charging. This landlord lied to me in writing and also verbally. He ruined the entire family experience I wanted and I had spent more than USD 20,000, about half of that to him. I have bought things on MercadoLibre that were advertised as returnable, but the seller later refused to let me return them. Almost every transaction here is different than other places. Each one is frought with suspicious or hidden, untruthful information. So, to do things right and protect yourself, it takes much more time to transact. That's why I said what I did about raising 3 little ones. I did that too, and we lived in Italy for a while with no concerns - nothing at all like Argentina. Your time raising and being with your kids without stress and anxiety will be much less in Argentina. Unless you only transact with the expat community, which for me would be virtually impossible. And if possible, probably will cost you double, eating into the "lower costs" you expected. I could write a book.....

Wow! I heard a few bad stories. My grandparents are from Italy and they moved to Argentina where my parents were born. I moved to the USA when I was younger but both my parents and grandparents constantly tell me people in Argentina are not to be trusted. I guess I knew it was bad but did not know it was like this. @ChaChaK will you stay in Argentina?

 

[earlyretirement]

I was scammed in so many ways. Here's a few: Someone paid me in USD 700 cash and it turned out to be counterfeit bills. They are hard to detect, you need to practice. I bought a "refurbished" stainless fridge, and it broke down after a couple of weeks. I had a tech come to repair it, and he said it had been messed with to LOOK like it would work, something with the fluids...but that it could not be repaired in any way. I ordered a couch and bought it on a credit card. When it came, it was the wrong color. The representative who brought it kept insisting it was the right color. It took me quite a while to figure out how to explain to him that the color was wrong. I had maybe 5 Facebook market scams when I tried to buy some furniture used (new stuff of quality is prohibitely expensive). I hired guys with a truck, because no one transports used stuff (usually) - you have to go get it. So, for example, I bought a used patio furniture set, but when my guys arrived to pick it up, there was substantial damage to 2 of the pieces in the set. Not only did the pictures NOT show the damage, but also the seller told me there was no damage at all (sin detalles). Since the guys with the truck drove an hour to get this furniture, she had me in a tight spot, which of course what she wanted to happen. So she started offering discounts if I would still take the furniture. I refused on principle, but of course I had to pay the guys and the truck rental. I COULD TELL YOU 20 STORIES LIKE THESE. Lying is institutionalized here. Even in legal processes! I have a very pricy lawyer for a lawsuit I am in process with, and on the initial complaint he instructed me what to write, and there were several lies! He said this is the way it is done in Argentina. I rented a country home over the holidays, many family members were coming from several countries. Turns out I was charged DOUBLE what similar places were charging. This landlord lied to me in writing and also verbally. He ruined the entire family experience I wanted and I had spent more than USD 20,000, about half of that to him. I have bought things on MercadoLibre that were advertised as returnable, but the seller later refused to let me return them. Almost every transaction here is different than other places. Each one is frought with suspicious or hidden, untruthful information. So, to do things right and protect yourself, it takes much more time to transact. That's why I said what I did about raising 3 little ones. I did that too, and we lived in Italy for a while with no concerns - nothing at all like Argentina. Your time raising and being with your kids without stress and anxiety will be much less in Argentina. Unless you only transact with the expat community, which for me would be virtually impossible. And if possible, probably will cost you double, eating into the "lower costs" you expected. I could write a book.....

I'm sorry that you went through all of these experiences @ChaChaK. I wish I could say I was surprised but all of these things if you don't have a good network of trustworthy local friends are very very common. I've been a consultant helping foreigners in Buenos Aires for the past 24 years. I get phone calls and emails almost every single day from foreigners that got cheated somehow and want advice how to resolve it. Unfortunately once you get scammed there isn't much you can do because the judicial system does not work in Argentina. It is full of fraud and abuse. So the important thing is doing things right the first time.

Fortunately I have not gotten scammed there due to my network of very trustworthy people that I work with over and over again for the past 24 years. I deal with the same lawyers, Escribanos, accountants, bankers and financial people, property developers. It's the only way in this country. It is full of liars and thieves. I've done business all over the world and quite a bit in Latin America. I went as far when I was building my house in Punta del Este to hire my architect and his staff to go and build my house in Uruguay! That's how careful you have to be.

What bothers me is the mindset that they have. They might scam you and then if you fall for it, they actually blame YOU for it. A good example is President Milei with that crypto Libra scam. He scammed people and then he blamed it on them comparing it to going to the Casino. LOL. That sums up the culture of Argentina in a nutshell. There is NO accountability and the country is full of scams.

That's interesting Mike. Most of my life I've heard about Argentinians being lazy but of course how would I know. My friend in BA was dating a local and at one point she told him "I'm a lazy person from a lazy country". We had a lot of laughs about that.

Yes, I also heard it but I wasn't prepared for how bad it was. If you are American you are accustomed to working hard and putting in long hard hours at work. Here even if you're paying great salaries or above market salaries, you always know what time it is because you see everyone leaving the office right at 5 PM on the dot. Everyone. For better or worse, that is how it is here. Some would say they have a healthy respect for work life balance but I think you have to have a balance.

For example, a good example is this past week it was very busy week in the office. We had something like 4 property closings in one week for our foreigner clients. We had a ton of work. I was just coming back from visiting London and Paris and was catching up. I was working like 16 hour days catching up and going over everything. Well, one of my employees was also busy and worked 8 hours extra that week. So they sent me a message saying she thought it was fair since she worked 8 extra hours to get an extra day off of vacation. I mean if that happened in the USA or other places your boss would just laugh at you. But that is the mindset of a local.

I've owned a lot of companies in different countries. And in any business there are lull and peak points where you are busier and you are slower and don't work that much. I think it balances out but here if they work extra they consider it some huge sacrifice. As an American I could never adjust to that. Even after 24 years it is very annoying to deal with.

There is no sense of work ethic in the vast majority of people here They don't like to work. Even if you justify to yourself that you are paying better, giving bonuses, paying 100% of their healthcare, they won't really care. They just look at it as "I am supposed to work 8 hours a day and I worked 9 today so I am owed 1 hour tomorrow". In a nutshell that is why Argentina is so ass backwards and has a lack of productivity and efficiency.

In the USA, we just get stuff done. Never in an executive position would you count hours like they do here.

I love Argentina and all my friends here but they will probably be the first to admit they are lazy and don't like to work. That is the biggest reason I couldn't bring myself to raise my kids here. I had 2 kids born in Buenos Aires but I knew there was no way I would raise them in Argentina. What happens is kids grow up in that environment and think that is normal. Same thing with cheating or stealing or things @ChaChaK mentions. When it happens over and over, kids think that is ok and it becomes almost institutionalized. I wouldn't want to raise kids in that kind of environment.

I don't regret for one minute not raising my kids here. They have Argentine passports and they love Argentina and I'm sure will spend a lot of time here in the future as we own several properties here and have a lot of friends here. But I think Americans have a better mindset and work ethic and value system.

I also am a Permanent Resident in Mexico and own several properties there too and spend a lot of time in Mexico and people in Mexico are mostly very hard workers. You task them with something and they will do it well. They will work hard and dependable and mostly honest and charge you fair prices even if you're a gringo. To an extent, that is very difficult to find in Buenos Aires without a prior existing network of locals that you can count on to refer you to someone good.

 

[Giovanni]

I'm sorry that you went through all of these experiences @ChaChaK. I wish I could say I was surprised but all of these things if you don't have a good network of trustworthy local friends are very very common. I've been a consultant helping foreigners in Buenos Aires for the past 24 years. I get phone calls and emails almost every single day from foreigners that got cheated somehow and want advice how to resolve it. Unfortunately once you get scammed there isn't much you can do because the judicial system does not work in Argentina. It is full of fraud and abuse. So the important thing is doing things right the first time.

Fortunately I have not gotten scammed there due to my network of very trustworthy people that I work with over and over again for the past 24 years. I deal with the same lawyers, Escribanos, accountants, bankers and financial people, property developers. It's the only way in this country. It is full of liars and thieves. I've done business all over the world and quite a bit in Latin America. I went as far when I was building my house in Punta del Este to hire my architect and his staff to go and build my house in Uruguay! That's how careful you have to be.

What bothers me is the mindset that they have. They might scam you and then if you fall for it, they actually blame YOU for it. A good example is President Milei with that crypto Libra scam. He scammed people and then he blamed it on them comparing it to going to the Casino. LOL. That sums up the culture of Argentina in a nutshell. There is NO accountability and the country is full of scams.


Yes, I also heard it but I wasn't prepared for how bad it was. If you are American you are accustomed to working hard and putting in long hard hours at work. Here even if you're paying great salaries or above market salaries, you always know what time it is because you see everyone leaving the office right at 5 PM on the dot. Everyone. For better or worse, that is how it is here. Some would say they have a healthy respect for work life balance but I think you have to have a balance.

For example, a good example is this past week it was very busy week in the office. We had something like 4 property closings in one week for our foreigner clients. We had a ton of work. I was just coming back from visiting London and Paris and was catching up. I was working like 16 hour days catching up and going over everything. Well, one of my employees was also busy and worked 8 hours extra that week. So they sent me a message saying she thought it was fair since she worked 8 extra hours to get an extra day off of vacation. I mean if that happened in the USA or other places your boss would just laugh at you. But that is the mindset of a local.

I've owned a lot of companies in different countries. And in any business there are lull and peak points where you are busier and you are slower and don't work that much. I think it balances out but here if they work extra they consider it some huge sacrifice. As an American I could never adjust to that. Even after 24 years it is very annoying to deal with.

There is no sense of work ethic in the vast majority of people here They don't like to work. Even if you justify to yourself that you are paying better, giving bonuses, paying 100% of their healthcare, they won't really care. They just look at it as "I am supposed to work 8 hours a day and I worked 9 today so I am owed 1 hour tomorrow". In a nutshell that is why Argentina is so ass backwards and has a lack of productivity and efficiency.

In the USA, we just get stuff done. Never in an executive position would you count hours like they do here.

I love Argentina and all my friends here but they will probably be the first to admit they are lazy and don't like to work. That is the biggest reason I couldn't bring myself to raise my kids here. I had 2 kids born in Buenos Aires but I knew there was no way I would raise them in Argentina. What happens is kids grow up in that environment and think that is normal. Same thing with cheating or stealing or things @ChaChaK mentions. When it happens over and over, kids thing that is ok and it becomes almost institutionalized. I wouldn't want to raise kids in that kind of environment.

I don't regret for one minute not raising my kids here. They have Argentine passports and they love Argentina and I'm sure will spend a lot of time here in the future as we own several properties here and have a lot of friends here. But I think Americans have a better mindset and work ethic and value system.

I also am a Permanent Resident in Mexico and own several properties there too and spend a lot of time in Mexico and people in Mexico are mostly very hard workers. You task them with something and they will do it well. They will work hard and dependable and mostly honest and charge you fair prices even if you're a gringo. To an extent, that is very difficult to find in Buenos Aires without a prior existing network of locals that you can count on to refer you to someone good.

This is exactly what my parents and grandparents told me it was like that in Argentina. Very sad but I guess you have to know how it is.

 

[Betsy Ross]

I was scammed in so many ways. Here's a few: Someone paid me in USD 700 cash and it turned out to be counterfeit bills. They are hard to detect, you need to practice. I bought a "refurbished" stainless fridge, and it broke down after a couple of weeks. I had a tech come to repair it, and he said it had been messed with to LOOK like it would work, something with the fluids...but that it could not be repaired in any way. I ordered a couch and bought it on a credit card. When it came, it was the wrong color. The representative who brought it kept insisting it was the right color. It took me quite a while to figure out how to explain to him that the color was wrong. I had maybe 5 Facebook market scams when I tried to buy some furniture used (new stuff of quality is prohibitely expensive). I hired guys with a truck, because no one transports used stuff (usually) - you have to go get it. So, for example, I bought a used patio furniture set, but when my guys arrived to pick it up, there was substantial damage to 2 of the pieces in the set. Not only did the pictures NOT show the damage, but also the seller told me there was no damage at all (sin detalles). Since the guys with the truck drove an hour to get this furniture, she had me in a tight spot, which of course what she wanted to happen. So she started offering discounts if I would still take the furniture. I refused on principle, but of course I had to pay the guys and the truck rental. I COULD TELL YOU 20 STORIES LIKE THESE. Lying is institutionalized here. Even in legal processes! I have a very pricy lawyer for a lawsuit I am in process with, and on the initial complaint he instructed me what to write, and there were several lies! He said this is the way it is done in Argentina. I rented a country home over the holidays, many family members were coming from several countries. Turns out I was charged DOUBLE what similar places were charging. This landlord lied to me in writing and also verbally. He ruined the entire family experience I wanted and I had spent more than USD 20,000, about half of that to him. I have bought things on MercadoLibre that were advertised as returnable, but the seller later refused to let me return them. Almost every transaction here is different than other places. Each one is frought with suspicious or hidden, untruthful information. So, to do things right and protect yourself, it takes much more time to transact. That's why I said what I did about raising 3 little ones. I did that too, and we lived in Italy for a while with no concerns - nothing at all like Argentina. Your time raising and being with your kids without stress and anxiety will be much less in Argentina. Unless you only transact with the expat community, which for me would be virtually impossible. And if possible, probably will cost you double, eating into the "lower costs" you expected. I could write a book.....

That sounds like a lot of bad luck! For the couch if you bought it with your foreign credit card you can report it as fraud and they will usually make it right if you send the details. Did they eventually change the color?

I had a lot of people that had scams with Facebook Market. Probably can get some deals but frustration factor is high.

People here will be dishonest and they convince themself hey aren't lying. I haven't seen anything like it but that is how I think they justify it. The convince themselves they aren't lying.

What was your lawsuit about @ChaChaK? I have been told many times it is not worth suing because the court system does not work here or will take years.

I'm sorry that you went through all of these experiences @ChaChaK. I wish I could say I was surprised but all of these things if you don't have a good network of trustworthy local friends are very very common. I've been a consultant helping foreigners in Buenos Aires for the past 24 years. I get phone calls and emails almost every single day from foreigners that got cheated somehow and want advice how to resolve it. Unfortunately once you get scammed there isn't much you can do because the judicial system does not work in Argentina. It is full of fraud and abuse. So the important thing is doing things right the first time.

Fortunately I have not gotten scammed there due to my network of very trustworthy people that I work with over and over again for the past 24 years. I deal with the same lawyers, Escribanos, accountants, bankers and financial people, property developers. It's the only way in this country. It is full of liars and thieves. I've done business all over the world and quite a bit in Latin America. I went as far when I was building my house in Punta del Este to hire my architect and his staff to go and build my house in Uruguay! That's how careful you have to be.

What bothers me is the mindset that they have. They might scam you and then if you fall for it, they actually blame YOU for it. A good example is President Milei with that crypto Libra scam. He scammed people and then he blamed it on them comparing it to going to the Casino. LOL. That sums up the culture of Argentina in a nutshell. There is NO accountability and the country is full of scams.


Yes, I also heard it but I wasn't prepared for how bad it was. If you are American you are accustomed to working hard and putting in long hard hours at work. Here even if you're paying great salaries or above market salaries, you always know what time it is because you see everyone leaving the office right at 5 PM on the dot. Everyone. For better or worse, that is how it is here. Some would say they have a healthy respect for work life balance but I think you have to have a balance.

For example, a good example is this past week it was very busy week in the office. We had something like 4 property closings in one week for our foreigner clients. We had a ton of work. I was just coming back from visiting London and Paris and was catching up. I was working like 16 hour days catching up and going over everything. Well, one of my employees was also busy and worked 8 hours extra that week. So they sent me a message saying she thought it was fair since she worked 8 extra hours to get an extra day off of vacation. I mean if that happened in the USA or other places your boss would just laugh at you. But that is the mindset of a local.

I've owned a lot of companies in different countries. And in any business there are lull and peak points where you are busier and you are slower and don't work that much. I think it balances out but here if they work extra they consider it some huge sacrifice. As an American I could never adjust to that. Even after 24 years it is very annoying to deal with.

There is no sense of work ethic in the vast majority of people here They don't like to work. Even if you justify to yourself that you are paying better, giving bonuses, paying 100% of their healthcare, they won't really care. They just look at it as "I am supposed to work 8 hours a day and I worked 9 today so I am owed 1 hour tomorrow". In a nutshell that is why Argentina is so ass backwards and has a lack of productivity and efficiency.

In the USA, we just get stuff done. Never in an executive position would you count hours like they do here.

I love Argentina and all my friends here but they will probably be the first to admit they are lazy and don't like to work. That is the biggest reason I couldn't bring myself to raise my kids here. I had 2 kids born in Buenos Aires but I knew there was no way I would raise them in Argentina. What happens is kids grow up in that environment and think that is normal. Same thing with cheating or stealing or things @ChaChaK mentions. When it happens over and over, kids think that is ok and it becomes almost institutionalized. I wouldn't want to raise kids in that kind of environment.

I don't regret for one minute not raising my kids here. They have Argentine passports and they love Argentina and I'm sure will spend a lot of time here in the future as we own several properties here and have a lot of friends here. But I think Americans have a better mindset and work ethic and value system.

I also am a Permanent Resident in Mexico and own several properties there too and spend a lot of time in Mexico and people in Mexico are mostly very hard workers. You task them with something and they will do it well. They will work hard and dependable and mostly honest and charge you fair prices even if you're a gringo. To an extent, that is very difficult to find in Buenos Aires without a prior existing network of locals that you can count on to refer you to someone good.

I would not want to raise a child here either. I love Argentina but would not want to raise a kid here for the same reasons you mentioned.

 

[Wally]

I was scammed in so many ways. Here's a few: Someone paid me in USD 700 cash and it turned out to be counterfeit bills. They are hard to detect, you need to practice. I bought a "refurbished" stainless fridge, and it broke down after a couple of weeks. I had a tech come to repair it, and he said it had been messed with to LOOK like it would work, something with the fluids...but that it could not be repaired in any way. I ordered a couch and bought it on a credit card. When it came, it was the wrong color. The representative who brought it kept insisting it was the right color. It took me quite a while to figure out how to explain to him that the color was wrong. I had maybe 5 Facebook market scams when I tried to buy some furniture used (new stuff of quality is prohibitely expensive). I hired guys with a truck, because no one transports used stuff (usually) - you have to go get it. So, for example, I bought a used patio furniture set, but when my guys arrived to pick it up, there was substantial damage to 2 of the pieces in the set. Not only did the pictures NOT show the damage, but also the seller told me there was no damage at all (sin detalles). Since the guys with the truck drove an hour to get this furniture, she had me in a tight spot, which of course what she wanted to happen. So she started offering discounts if I would still take the furniture. I refused on principle, but of course I had to pay the guys and the truck rental. I COULD TELL YOU 20 STORIES LIKE THESE. Lying is institutionalized here. Even in legal processes! I have a very pricy lawyer for a lawsuit I am in process with, and on the initial complaint he instructed me what to write, and there were several lies! He said this is the way it is done in Argentina. I rented a country home over the holidays, many family members were coming from several countries. Turns out I was charged DOUBLE what similar places were charging. This landlord lied to me in writing and also verbally. He ruined the entire family experience I wanted and I had spent more than USD 20,000, about half of that to him. I have bought things on MercadoLibre that were advertised as returnable, but the seller later refused to let me return them. Almost every transaction here is different than other places. Each one is frought with suspicious or hidden, untruthful information. So, to do things right and protect yourself, it takes much more time to transact. That's why I said what I did about raising 3 little ones. I did that too, and we lived in Italy for a while with no concerns - nothing at all like Argentina. Your time raising and being with your kids without stress and anxiety will be much less in Argentina. Unless you only transact with the expat community, which for me would be virtually impossible. And if possible, probably will cost you double, eating into the "lower costs" you expected. I could write a book.....

I wish I could say this is a rare experience you had but unfortunately this is par for the course here.

That sounds like a lot of bad luck! For the couch if you bought it with your foreign credit card you can report it as fraud and they will usually make it right if you send the details. Did they eventually change the color?

I had a lot of people that had scams with Facebook Market. Probably can get some deals but frustration factor is high.

People here will be dishonest and they convince themself hey aren't lying. I haven't seen anything like it but that is how I think they justify it. The convince themselves they aren't lying.

What was your lawsuit about @ChaChaK? I have been told many times it is not worth suing because the court system does not work here or will take years.


I would not want to raise a child here either. I love Argentina but would not want to raise a kid here for the same reasons you mentioned.

It is not impossible to raise kids here. I did it. But as a parent you have to work extra hard to instill value systems. But there is no getting around the issue of not wanting to work hard. That is a constant struggle we face. Most of the kids they go to school with are from families with money and the kids don't have to work too hard. It can be difficult to get them into the mindset to work hard.

 

[BuySellBA]

I was scammed in so many ways. Here's a few: Someone paid me in USD 700 cash and it turned out to be counterfeit bills. They are hard to detect, you need to practice. I bought a "refurbished" stainless fridge, and it broke down after a couple of weeks. I had a tech come to repair it, and he said it had been messed with to LOOK like it would work, something with the fluids...but that it could not be repaired in any way. I ordered a couch and bought it on a credit card. When it came, it was the wrong color. The representative who brought it kept insisting it was the right color. It took me quite a while to figure out how to explain to him that the color was wrong. I had maybe 5 Facebook market scams when I tried to buy some furniture used (new stuff of quality is prohibitely expensive). I hired guys with a truck, because no one transports used stuff (usually) - you have to go get it. So, for example, I bought a used patio furniture set, but when my guys arrived to pick it up, there was substantial damage to 2 of the pieces in the set. Not only did the pictures NOT show the damage, but also the seller told me there was no damage at all (sin detalles). Since the guys with the truck drove an hour to get this furniture, she had me in a tight spot, which of course what she wanted to happen. So she started offering discounts if I would still take the furniture. I refused on principle, but of course I had to pay the guys and the truck rental. I COULD TELL YOU 20 STORIES LIKE THESE. Lying is institutionalized here. Even in legal processes! I have a very pricy lawyer for a lawsuit I am in process with, and on the initial complaint he instructed me what to write, and there were several lies! He said this is the way it is done in Argentina. I rented a country home over the holidays, many family members were coming from several countries. Turns out I was charged DOUBLE what similar places were charging. This landlord lied to me in writing and also verbally. He ruined the entire family experience I wanted and I had spent more than USD 20,000, about half of that to him. I have bought things on MercadoLibre that were advertised as returnable, but the seller later refused to let me return them. Almost every transaction here is different than other places. Each one is frought with suspicious or hidden, untruthful information. So, to do things right and protect yourself, it takes much more time to transact. That's why I said what I did about raising 3 little ones. I did that too, and we lived in Italy for a while with no concerns - nothing at all like Argentina. Your time raising and being with your kids without stress and anxiety will be much less in Argentina. Unless you only transact with the expat community, which for me would be virtually impossible. And if possible, probably will cost you double, eating into the "lower costs" you expected. I could write a book.....

Argentina consistently ranks as one of the most corrupt places in the world. It should probably be even lower ranked as this map.

I

 

[James Bond]

That's interesting Mike. Most of my life I've heard about Argentinians being lazy but of course how would I know. My friend in BA was dating a local and at one point she told him "I'm a lazy person from a lazy country". We had a lot of laughs about that.

That is very funny Craig but I think that many will openly admit they are lazy. At least they will admit it. My girlfriend won't consider herself lazy per se but she will say she doesn't like working hard. 🤣

For example, a good example is this past week it was very busy week in the office. We had something like 4 property closings in one week for our foreigner clients. We had a ton of work. I was just coming back from visiting London and Paris and was catching up. I was working like 16 hour days catching up and going over everything. Well, one of my employees was also busy and worked 8 hours extra that week. So they sent me a message saying she thought it was fair since she worked 8 extra hours to get an extra day off of vacation. I mean if that happened in the USA or other places your boss would just laugh at you. But that is the mindset of a local.

I've owned a lot of companies in different countries. And in any business there are lull and peak points where you are busier and you are slower and don't work that much. I think it balances out but here if they work extra they consider it some huge sacrifice. As an American I could never adjust to that. Even after 24 years it is very annoying to deal with.

There is no sense of work ethic in the vast majority of people here They don't like to work. Even if you justify to yourself that you are paying better, giving bonuses, paying 100% of their healthcare, they won't really care. They just look at it as "I am supposed to work 8 hours a day and I worked 9 today so I am owed 1 hour tomorrow". In a nutshell that is why Argentina is so ass backwards and has a lack of productivity and efficiency.

In the USA, we just get stuff done. Never in an executive position would you count hours like they do here.

This drove me crazy. I briefly had a company in Argentina for a few years. I would joke you would always know when it was 5 because everyone would clear out. They don't want to work 1 minute past quitting time.

 

[CraigM]

This drove me crazy. I briefly had a company in Argentina for a few years. I would joke you would always know when it was 5 because everyone would clear out. They don't want to work 1 minute past quitting time.

Gosh I remember that. On my last day there I had to drop something off in Palermo before heading to the airport, it was shortly after 5pm and all these kids in their early twenties were coming home from work. It was like rush hour on the sidewalks. I remember thinking you would never see that in NYC.

 

[Finance Prof]

Gosh I remember that. On my last day there I had to drop something off in Palermo before heading to the airport, it was shortly after 5pm and all these kids in their early twenties were coming home from work. It was like rush hour on the sidewalks. I remember thinking you would never see that in NYC.

🤣 Yes you will always know it is quitting time by seeing the rush of people at 5. I meet up with my friends after work and I would meet with them and without fail by 5:05 they were already at the cafe. Argentines are never on time either. The only time they are on time is when they are rushing to leave work.