How much money does it take to be in the upper 5% of wealth in Argentina?

[Digital Nomad]

I saw this graph online. Is it accurate? It shows that if you make $4,666 USD per month you're in the top 5% of Argentine wage earners and the Upper class in Argentina. Is this accurate? My girlfriend said it is not accurate and higher than that. What do you all think?

 

[earlyretirement]

I agree with your girlfriend. You have to take these kinds of official statistics with a grain of salt in Argentina. A HUGE % of income for people is off the books and in cash that isn't declared anywhere. You'd be surprised, there are a lot of people that make quite a bit of money in Argentina. It IS true that most people make lower salaries but I would say those figures are probably on the low end.

$1,600 USD per month really doesn't buy too much in Argentina these days for their figures of Upper Middle class. I think these numbers are much higher than this.

 

[Betsy Ross]

I agree with your girlfriend. You have to take these kinds of official statistics with a grain of salt in Argentina. A HUGE % of income for people is off the books and in cash that isn't declared anywhere. You'd be surprised, there are a lot of people that make quite a bit of money in Argentina. It IS true that most people make lower salaries but I would say those figures are probably on the low end.

$1,600 USD per month really doesn't buy too much in Argentina these days for their figures of Upper Middle class. I think these numbers are much higher than this.

Agree with you @earlyretirement about being leery of anything with official numbers on them. The vast majority of people here don't make much money but several lawyers, realtors, accountants that I know make more than friends I have in the States. Most people don't declare anywhere near their true income.

 

[Wally]

I would disagree and say that $4,500+ USD per month is a great salary here! Certainly almost all my friends here are making less than that here. I'm not sure if that is the upper 5% or not but that is great income here!

 

[earlyretirement]

I would disagree and say that $4,500+ USD per month is a great salary here! Certainly almost all my friends here are making less than that here. I'm not sure if that is the upper 5% or not but that is great income here!

I am not disagreeing with you that this amount is not a great salary here. I agree with you on that point. I am just saying I don't think that it is truly top 5% here. There is tremendous wealth here in Argentina and especially Buenos Aires. You will find that many families here are fairly high net worth and well off and many own many properties and also passed down that wealth from generation to generation.

I'm not disagreeing that is a great monthly salary for local standards. My point was that it most likely doesn't reflect actual numbers with Argentina being such a cash society with lots of income under the table.

 

[Spend Thrift]

@Wally USD 4 - 5K is upper middle class here. The clase alta is less than 1% of the population and makes a whole lot of dough.

I can tell a lot of people here have a ton of dough. In my building I can see the same family owns 6 of the 30 units in the building.

 

[Jenn]

@Wally USD 4 - 5K is upper middle class here. The clase alta is less than 1% of the population and makes a whole lot of dough.

Wow! It doesn't take much to be in the upper class! So if I come down with six figure salary then I would automatically get to be in the upper class there. It isn't much for the USA but down there it sounds like I'd be a big shot. My accountant just told me if I am living in Argentina I can also get huge tax breaks on being outside of the USA for most of the year.

 

[Marleny]

Where is this graph from?

 

[Digital Nomad]

Where is this graph from?

It is from this article.

Qué clase social ajustó más en la era Milei y cómo está hoy la pirámide

Este sector de la sociedad comenzó a reducir gastos por encima del promedio general en el bimestre abril/mayo, según un relevamiento privado; para ser considerada de clase alta, una familia tipo debe tener un piso de ingresos mensuales de casi $3 millones

www.lanacion.com.ar

 

[Bob]

Upper MIDDLE class, Jenn.

The Argentine upper class makes a LOT more than six figures and their nest eggs are really BIG. That's where the real wealth is.

So true. Not only that but the upper class own a lot of assets. The friends I know there that are in the upper class own a few properties and many have houses in Nordelta or San Ysidro. And no mortgages on them. The typical friend in the US is saddled with a lot of debt. None of my local friends have any debt at all.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Upper MIDDLE class, Jenn.

The Argentine upper class makes a LOT more than six figures and their nest eggs are really BIG. That's where the real wealth is.

People would be surprised if they knew how much money the true upper class here have. And the reality is that on paper, much of it might not show up on any official government statistic. Many hold offshore investments. Argentines hold a tremendous amount of cash under their mattress too.

I am not disagreeing with you that this amount is not a great salary here. I agree with you on that point. I am just saying I don't think that it is truly top 5% here. There is tremendous wealth here in Argentina and especially Buenos Aires. You will find that many families here are fairly high net worth and well off and many own many properties and also passed down that wealth from generation to generation.

I'm not disagreeing that is a great monthly salary for local standards. My point was that it most likely doesn't reflect actual numbers with Argentina being such a cash society with lots of income under the table.

True. I laugh sometimes because some foreigners think they have a lot and everyone here is poor and that is just not the case here. Look at how full many restaurants are no matter how the economy is doing. That tells a small picture of how much $$ is here.

 

[FuturoBA]

Reading this made me think of the the book: Class: A Guide Through the American Status System which talks about class structure in the US but probably has lots of overlap w Argentina. Esp important are the parts of the top out-of-sight class who conceal themselves and their wealth living in mansions far away from private roads, Uppers living on inherited wealth, and upper-middles earning their way to financial success usually through their profession or business.

wiki provides a great summary

Class: A Guide Through the American Status System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Vince]

Reading this made me think of the the book: Class: A Guide Through the American Status System which talks about class structure in the US but probably has lots of overlap w Argentina. Esp important are the parts of the top out-of-sight class who conceal themselves and their wealth living in mansions far away from private roads, Uppers living on inherited wealth, and upper-middles earning their way to financial success usually through their profession or business.

wiki provides a great summary

Class: A Guide Through the American Status System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This sounds like a great book. I will check it out. Thanks @FuturoBA

 

[Finance Prof]

Reading this made me think of the the book: Class: A Guide Through the American Status System which talks about class structure in the US but probably has lots of overlap w Argentina. Esp important are the parts of the top out-of-sight class who conceal themselves and their wealth living in mansions far away from private roads, Uppers living on inherited wealth, and upper-middles earning their way to financial success usually through their profession or business.

wiki provides a great summary

Class: A Guide Through the American Status System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is a great book. I agree about the top of the sight class who conceal themselves. Many in BA that have a lot of $$$ don't live in lavish mansions and many have nice but modest apartments in the city. Quite a bit of inherited wealth here.

 

[TonyTigre]

I think people focus too much on the typical classifications of socioeconomic classes and top/bottom x%. I believe the following classifications are more helpful:

* Struggling * - struggling (uncertain) to have enough money to fund the basic necessities such as food, shelter, healthcare.

* Stretched * - having enough to fund the basic necessities, but has to watch the budget constantly and make adjustments to purchase certain things.

* Content * - not worried about the basic necessities. Able to purchase some of the things they want, and optimistic about achieving their plans to purchase the other things they want in the future.

* Comfortable * - no worries about money, no budgeting required, working is optional.

* Philanthropist * - People in any class can give to charity because there are always some who are less fortunate than us, but here, I refer to 'philanthropist' as someone who is very 'comfortable' and does not give mainly for tax benefits or having their name on a wall.

The interesting thing about these classifications is that the individual has a lot of control over which class they belong to. Isn't it interesting that some in the upper middle class and perhaps even some from the upper class don't even feel "content" and consider themselves "stretched"? Some have a very warped sense of what are basic necessities and an unlimited appetite for the things they "want" , which are often really just things that others want...so they want them too.

It's also interesting that some who depend on government benefits can feel "content." Some people even think the government should provide enough benefits for people to feel "content" instead of "stretched."

Which class from the above do you belong to?

 

[Digital Nomad]

I think people focus too much on the typical classifications of socioeconomic classes and top/bottom x%. I believe the following classifications are more helpful:

* Struggling * - struggling (uncertain) to have enough money to fund the basic necessities such as food, shelter, healthcare.

* Stretched * - having enough to fund the basic necessities, but has to watch the budget constantly and make adjustments to purchase certain things.

* Content * - not worried about the basic necessities. Able to purchase some of the things they want, and optimistic about achieving their plans to purchase the other things they want in the future.

* Comfortable * - no worries about money, no budgeting required, working is optional.

* Philanthropist * - People in any class can give to charity because there are always some who are less fortunate than us, but here, I refer to 'philanthropist' as someone who is very 'comfortable' and does not give mainly for tax benefits or having their name on a wall.

The interesting thing about these classifications is that the individual has a lot of control over which class they belong to. Isn't it interesting that some in the upper middle class and perhaps even some from the upper class don't even feel "content" and consider themselves "stretched"? Some have a very warped sense of what are basic necessities and an unlimited appetite for the things they "want" , which are often really just things that others want...so they want them too.

It's also interesting that some who depend on government benefits can feel "content." Some people even think the government should provide enough benefits for people to feel "content" instead of "stretched."

Which class from the above do you belong to?

This is a great point @TonyTigre. I guess growing up in the US we always think about upper, middle and lower class. I would say your categories are better not just here in Argentina but probably a good way to look at your level too. Also, what I notice is that a lot of families here like in the USA support their children who may be adults.

I would fall in the content category. I have a good remote job so make decent salary, especially for local standards. But if I wanted to buy a property here I couldn't without the help of my parents. Your levels are subjective as each person's level of content is different. I talked to a homeless guy that is always by my apartment building and he told me he would be content just to eat one meal a day.

I'd love to get to the Philanthropist level where I could help more people.

 

[Vince]

I think people focus too much on the typical classifications of socioeconomic classes and top/bottom x%. I believe the following classifications are more helpful:

* Struggling * - struggling (uncertain) to have enough money to fund the basic necessities such as food, shelter, healthcare.

* Stretched * - having enough to fund the basic necessities, but has to watch the budget constantly and make adjustments to purchase certain things.

* Content * - not worried about the basic necessities. Able to purchase some of the things they want, and optimistic about achieving their plans to purchase the other things they want in the future.

* Comfortable * - no worries about money, no budgeting required, working is optional.

* Philanthropist * - People in any class can give to charity because there are always some who are less fortunate than us, but here, I refer to 'philanthropist' as someone who is very 'comfortable' and does not give mainly for tax benefits or having their name on a wall.

The interesting thing about these classifications is that the individual has a lot of control over which class they belong to. Isn't it interesting that some in the upper middle class and perhaps even some from the upper class don't even feel "content" and consider themselves "stretched"? Some have a very warped sense of what are basic necessities and an unlimited appetite for the things they "want" , which are often really just things that others want...so they want them too.

It's also interesting that some who depend on government benefits can feel "content." Some people even think the government should provide enough benefits for people to feel "content" instead of "stretched."

Which class from the above do you belong to?

Excellent categorization. It is interesting about people having control which class they belong to. A unique way to look at how rich/poor one is. Many people here in Argentina would be content just paying their bills and having a roof over their head and 3 meals a day. I have many friends in the US that have a lot of money but are not content. Some in the Philanthropist category are absolutely miserable and always want more.

I would consider myself in the Comfortable category. Not for myself but because my wife's family owns several businesses. You mentioned parents helping kids but man adults here have businesses that they are helping their parents run and that will be passed down to them. Or in my case, my parents are both elderly and having health problems now.

 

[pennyless]

I think people focus too much on the typical classifications of socioeconomic classes and top/bottom x%. I believe the following classifications are more helpful:

* Struggling * - struggling (uncertain) to have enough money to fund the basic necessities such as food, shelter, healthcare.

* Stretched * - having enough to fund the basic necessities, but has to watch the budget constantly and make adjustments to purchase certain things.

* Content * - not worried about the basic necessities. Able to purchase some of the things they want, and optimistic about achieving their plans to purchase the other things they want in the future.

* Comfortable * - no worries about money, no budgeting required, working is optional.

* Philanthropist * - People in any class can give to charity because there are always some who are less fortunate than us, but here, I refer to 'philanthropist' as someone who is very 'comfortable' and does not give mainly for tax benefits or having their name on a wall.

The interesting thing about these classifications is that the individual has a lot of control over which class they belong to. Isn't it interesting that some in the upper middle class and perhaps even some from the upper class don't even feel "content" and consider themselves "stretched"? Some have a very warped sense of what are basic necessities and an unlimited appetite for the things they "want" , which are often really just things that others want...so they want them too.

It's also interesting that some who depend on government benefits can feel "content." Some people even think the government should provide enough benefits for people to feel "content" instead of "stretched."

Which class from the above do you belong to?

This is easy for me. I'm in the Stretched category. Very difficult making it from one month to the other. Cost of living has gone up tremendously over the past year.

 

[Wally]

I'm somewhere between Content and Comfortable. I'm happy but always have the fear I will run out of money in the back of my mind. I have to budget so I wouldn't fall in your category of just Comfortable. A good way to look at life @TonyTigre.

 

[FuturoBA]

I think people focus too much on the typical classifications of socioeconomic classes and top/bottom x%. I believe the following classifications are more helpful:

* Struggling * - struggling (uncertain) to have enough money to fund the basic necessities such as food, shelter, healthcare.

* Stretched * - having enough to fund the basic necessities, but has to watch the budget constantly and make adjustments to purchase certain things.

* Content * - not worried about the basic necessities. Able to purchase some of the things they want, and optimistic about achieving their plans to purchase the other things they want in the future.

* Comfortable * - no worries about money, no budgeting required, working is optional.

* Philanthropist * - People in any class can give to charity because there are always some who are less fortunate than us, but here, I refer to 'philanthropist' as someone who is very 'comfortable' and does not give mainly for tax benefits or having their name on a wall.

The interesting thing about these classifications is that the individual has a lot of control over which class they belong to. Isn't it interesting that some in the upper middle class and perhaps even some from the upper class don't even feel "content" and consider themselves "stretched"? Some have a very warped sense of what are basic necessities and an unlimited appetite for the things they "want" , which are often really just things that others want...so they want them too.

It's also interesting that some who depend on government benefits can feel "content." Some people even think the government should provide enough benefits for people to feel "content" instead of "stretched."

Which class from the above do you belong to?

The common classes are how society generally views an individual and how they fit into different categories, both on an economic and social level (the two are not the same. this is a pretty good read that talks more about it.) Not saying that's how one should view oneself on an individual level and I agree your classification gives a better idea for how you as an individual are living. Especially given, it allots you more control of how you view your circumstances.