Legal International Child Custody

[OdGreen]

Hi,

I gave birth to my son two months ago with my argentine boyfriend. Since the birth, things have been quite bad and he has threatened to take him on a number of occasions. Its gotten to the point that I don't want to be here.

I have already gotten him his US citizenship, and so I want to know what rights I have as a technically "single mother" to taking him back to the states. Argentina isn't apart of the hague countries and I wouldn't dream of "abducting" my child, but I know that we would be much better on living in the states.

Does anyone have any recommendations for an international custody lawyer? As I think I need to talk to someone asap to get all of this information in writing.

Also, keep the nasty remarks to a minimum please... I'm just looking for some help to get myself and my child out of a terrible situation.

 

[NigjeFs]

Are you sure things won´t improve? Paternity does have a weird effect on some men, maybe things will settle? If the baby was born here and carries the father´s name you are in for some rough dispute Were things bad before and during pregnancy? Maybe you should talk to a counselor to get an objective opinion. Hormones go crazy for us too after giving birth...I don´t know the details but maybe the 3 of you deserve a chance? Good luckl! Sorry I can´t be of much help

 

[Mart]

ufff - sorry to read this. Unfortunately, the father would have to give formal consent for you to take the child out of the country and you have to present that documentation when leaving the country.

Perhaps give it some time to see if things improve? I don't know of any good international custody lawyers unfortunately. You may wish to speak to someone at the US Embassy to see if they can give you any guidance.

 

[MelodyMirt]

If you have residency in Argentina (temporary or permanent), it is imposible to leave the country with your child, unless the father is with you or unless you have a letter from the public notary (signed by the father) saying you can travel alone with your child.

For kids under 14 year you need such a permission from the notary each time you leave the country. At 14 you can put 3 countries of destination in them that is valid until they are 18 and can travel on their own....

It is completely impossible to leave the country without the permission. They asks you at check in and at passport control. They check every word in the letter and are extremely strickt about it.

 

[ClemaMotors]

What happens if the father or mother are not residents but perm-tourists?

 

[MelodyMirt]

What happens if the father or mother are not residents but perm-tourists?

I suppose that if you aren't in 'the system' this law doesn't apply to you...

They started asking us for the document as soon as they saw the (1 year) visa stamp in our passport.

 

[Chesse]

What happens if the father or mother are not residents but perm-tourists?

It doesn't matter, if the child is a permanent resident or a citizen.

My sister-in-law's parents aren't even here as perma-tourists (they live in Paraguay) and we have to jump through hoops every time she wants to go home to see the family just because she's now a permanent resident here.

The law (as it affects permanent residents who are minors, not citizens - that part was always there) actually went into effect December last year and caught MANY people by surprise. Including us. I took her and her cousin to the airport last year in the middle of December and she was not allowed on the plane. We had traveled back and forth many times, requiring only a permission to leave Paraguay previously.

USExpatMom, I'm sorry but you will have no recourse to bring your child out of Argentina that I'm aware of, without the father's permission.

The good news is that I don't think he would ever win a custody hearing to take him from you here (unless, maybe, you were to try to remove him from the country without his permission).

However, don't take our word for it. Go see a lawyer and make certain that you have no recourse. Unfortunately, I only know immigration lawyers. I wish I could help with a referral.

BTW - I'm assuming the father is listed on the birth certificate? If not, things could be a little different, and if he hasn't sued to be placed on the birth certificate. If that's the case, you might want to think about leaving now.

I know a family (expat husband, Argentine wife, daughter from the mother before the marriage) where the father of their daughter's child was not on the birth certificate (he didn't want to have much at all to do with her during the pregnancy, was an asshole and the girl didn't want anything more to do with him) - none of the three wanted him on it and the hospital didn't put him on it, jut the mother. within a month or so of the birth, the father sued for parental rights and was placed on the BC upon DNA testing to prove he was the father.

 

[ClemaMotors]

It doesn't matter, if the child is a permanent resident or a citizen.

My sister-in-law's parents aren't even here as perma-tourists (they live in Paraguay) and we have to jump through hoops every time she wants to go home to see the family just because she's now a permanent resident here.

The law (as it affects permanent residents who are minors, not citizens - that part was always there) actually went into effect December last year and caught MANY people by surprise. Including us. I took her and her cousin to the airport last year in the middle of December and she was not allowed on the plane. We had traveled back and forth many times, requiring only a permission to leave Paraguay previously.

USExpatMom, I'm sorry but you will have no recourse to bring your child out of Argentina that I'm aware of, without the father's permission.

The good news is that I don't think he would ever win a custody hearing to take him from you here (unless, maybe, you were to try to remove him from the country without his permission).

However, don't take our word for it. Go see a lawyer and make certain that you have no recourse. Unfortunately, I only know immigration lawyers. I wish I could help with a referral.

BTW - I'm assuming the father is listed on the birth certificate? If not, things could be a little different, and if he hasn't sued to be placed on the birth certificate. If that's the case, you might want to think about leaving now.

I know a family (expat husband, Argentine wife, daughter from the mother before the marriage) where the father of their daughter's child was not on the birth certificate (he didn't want to have much at all to do with her during the pregnancy, was an asshole and the girl didn't want anything more to do with him) - none of the three wanted him on it and the hospital didn't put him on it, jut the mother. within a month or so of the birth, the father sued for parental rights and was placed on the BC upon DNA testing to prove he was the father.

Sorry but that doesnt answer my question if the mom/father(argentine) can take the kid(Argentine) abroad without the consent of father/mother(perm tourist)

 

[Chesse]

Sorry but that doesnt answer my question if the mom/father(argentine) can take the kid(Argentine) abroad without the consent of father/mother(perm tourist)

I'm not sure why it doesn't. Perhaps I wasn't detailed enough.

In the case I mentioned, both parents are not residents or citizens of Argentina.

In the case you mention, one is a resident (citizenship status) and the other is not a legal resident or citizen.

It doesn't matter if one parent is Argentine and one is perma-tourist (non-resident), or in the case I mentioned, if both are non-residents.

If the kid is a citizen or permanent resident of Argentina, it does not matter the residency status of either (or both) parent(s). The permission of both parents is required for the kid to leave Argentina. The parentage is determined by the birth certificate that is presented on leaving and if both signatures are not on an apostilled document saying the kid has permission to leave, immigrations will not permit that kid to leave (certainly not without some monetary encouragement, at the least - I can attest to that but with no further comment).

Having said that, that is why I mentioned to the OP that if by some chance the father was not listed on the birth certificate, she may have a chance to leave the country. Of course, that may bring up other complicated issues, but it's a complicated situation anyway...

 

[ClemaMotors]

I'm not sure why it doesn't. Perhaps I wasn't detailed enough.

In the case I mentioned, both parents are not residents or citizens of Argentina.

In the case you mention, one is a resident (citizenship status) and the other is not a legal resident or citizen.

It doesn't matter if one parent is Argentine and one is perma-tourist (non-resident), or in the case I mentioned, if both are non-residents.

If the kid is a citizen or permanent resident of Argentina, it does not matter the residency status of either (or both) parent(s). The permission of both parents is required for the kid to leave Argentina. The parentage is determined by the birth certificate that is presented on leaving and if both signatures are not on an apostilled document saying the kid has permission to leave, immigrations will not permit that kid to leave (certainly not without some monetary encouragement, at the least - I can attest to that but with no further comment).

Having said that, that is why I mentioned to the OP that if by some chance the father was not listed on the birth certificate, she may have a chance to leave the country. Of course, that may bring up other complicated issues, but it's a complicated situation anyway...

So that means that ALWAYS the consent of the other parent is needed if one parent wants to travel with an Argentine kid out of Argentina?

 

[Chesse]

I'd be willing to bet that if the father was a foreigner who never visited or supported the child, it could happen. At the very least maybe the courts would give permission to travel without removing the father's legal right as father apart from travel.

I'm not a lawyer for sure, I just know very well the part about what's required to get a kid out of Argentina having been saddled with that problem repeatedly. The part about the courts awarding mother sole custody under certain circumstances were just a supposition.

Otherwise, I completely agree about father's rights here. not an option for the OP, I think.

Unless the father is not named on the BC and she leaves Argentina before that fact is accomplished.

 

[earlyretirement]

So that means that ALWAYS the consent of the other parent is needed if one parent wants to travel with an Argentine kid out of Argentina?

This is EXACTLY correct. What the other posters said are correct. Anytime you have a situation where your child was born in Argentina it makes them a local. It doesn't matter if you aren't a resident or anything else.

The laws are VERY strict there. I had two children born in Buenos Aires and they could never leave Argentina without showing their DNI's, we had to show our birth certificates for them and we even had to show our marriage certificate (but I'm sure if you're not married you can get around that). They are VERY strict about leaving the country without both parents being there or having a Certified letter signed by the other parent if they aren't with the mother and child on the trip.

It's not just Argentina but other countries in South America do the same thing as well. My sister in law who is 14 years old went out of Argentina last year and while they got the special letter to leave Argentina that her dad signed, my mother in law assumed that it would be enough as the letter that was notorized stated the travel dates and which countries she was going to and when she was coming back. Well, the other country she went to wouldn't let her leave as they also demanded a separate letter from their Embassy so they missed their flight and her dad had to go to an Embassy in Buenos Aires and sign another form and they faxed it to the police at the airport.

In your situation, it will be impossible to legally bring your child out of Argentina without his express written consent. The laws are very strong for parent's rights. While you will be allowed to go back to the USA, your child will not unless your husband signs the paperwork.

This is an ugly situation. I'd advise anyone in this similar situation before they have the baby to fly back to there home country to have the baby. The baby can still later get a DNI and Argentina passport if they want but it just complicates things tremendously.