Legal My Divorce From Argentina

[CariBean]

After thinking about it for awhile, I have decided to run as fast as I can away from Argentina.

I arrived approx 3 years ago with tons of spirit, plenty of cash, and a love of Argentina (as I am half Argie). The past two years have been a good lesson which has taught me....come back to Argentina only for vacation. Because living here is a freaking disaster. The other thing it taught me is how lucky I am to be American (yes, everyone on these continents is american, spare me your boredom).

My major reasons for leaving include the pending economic disaster here in Argentina, my frusteration with how inefficient everything is here, the lack of entrepreneurial opportunities (here in Argentina, the rich get richers and the rest just try to live), and currently the price of everything. This is a 3rd world country with 1st world prices at the moment.

The things I will miss about Argentina.........The style....The style of speech, attitude (sort of), and the style of clothes. Beef.........it is lovely here and cheaper than dirt. and the gorgeous women. The things I wont miss are in the hundreds so I wont bother listing them...perhaps just a everything else category.

To look forward to: A ton! Great food (Indian, Mexican, Even home cooked American!), being able to speak english most of the time!, Ebay, an Iphone that doesnt cost a fortune, awesome clothing at great prices, real business opportunities, real life long friends, and plenty more.

In retrospect, if I would do it again, I would pick Brasil.

And Argentina, you cruel difficult girl..........I will come see you from time to time.....but no chance of marriage!

 

[HuxLex]

I've known many people who stay for a while and leave, and they always end up missing everything. Perhaps you'd call it an "open, abusive relationship."

Brazil is a lot like Argentina in my experience. Bureaucratic, corrupt, and more expensive than Buenos Aires. With that said, unless you live in the country's interior, there's probably a beautiful beach nearby. That counts for something!

Hope your return to the U.S. is a good one.

 

[earlyretirement]

Great post and definitely I understand how you feel. I will always love Argentina but I don't have any desire to live there full time anymore. The USA of today is much different than the USA of many years ago.

Everything is on sale today! Back before during the bubble, things were just horribly expensive. Even in desirable cities, you can find real estate that is 35% to 40% cheaper than it was back then.

Great variety of food in the stores (and it's actually fresh), banking system is super efficient and works, everyday life is so great and efficient. Mailing a letter or picking up a package doesn't take all day. Order something on Amazon.com and you have it next day or 2 days. Utilities work. Internet always works. It's safe. Great diversity in restaurants and dining options and it's cheap compared to Buenos Aires now.

Yeah, I love Argentina but when I want to visit, I'll come and visit a few weeks but I absolutely LOVE living in the USA again. I didn't realize how much I missed it until I moved back. Everything actually works and is so efficient. People actually follow traffic lights and pedestrians have the right of way.

The sad thing is things will get worse in Argentina before they get better.

 

[earlyretirement]

I've known many people who stay for a while and leave, and they always end up missing everything. Perhaps you'd call it an "open, abusive relationship."

Brazil is a lot like Argentina in my experience. Bureaucratic, corrupt, and more expensive than Buenos Aires. With that said, unless you live in the country's interior, there's probably a beautiful beach nearby. That counts for something!

Hope your return to the U.S. is a good one.

I totally agree! Brazil is VERY expensive. More so than Buenos Aires. I'm talking major cities like Rio or Sao Paulo. Try buying an equivalent nice apartment in a great area like Recoleta or Palermo in Sao Paulo and you'll pay much more! Groceries, taxis, dining out....it's all VERY expensive in the major cities in Brazil.

Also, there is tons of red tape there as well. Plus their immigration controls for tourists are much stricter. Brazil is great but I don't think moving there is a solution either.

 

[ScotGown]

I'm a local just got back from the US, lived there for a while and you are right about everything. Unfortunately is not easy for us to relocate there. To be honest I don't get it why you guys move it here in the first place. I love my country and all but is very hard to live here just be happy that you are American, many people would give anything to live there, some even risk their lives and believe me is not an easy place to relocate there, many decent workers living like criminals, not very welcoming. Brazil is the same, all the things you hated here are there as well, well the beach is nice but overall is the same or worst. There are bad things everywhere, economy is not booming in the US now, saw many Americans loose their jobs and having a hard time as well. But is cheap to live there right now, like you said food can be better, even meat if you can afford it, and most importantly, you born there...I guess there is no place like home

 

[earlyretirement]

I'm a local just got back from the US, lived there for a while and you are right about everything. Unfortunately is not easy for us to relocate there. To be honest I don't get it why you guys move it here in the first place. I love my country and all but is very hard to live here just be happy that you are American, many people would give anything to live there, some even risk their lives and believe me is not an easy place to relocate there, many decent workers living like criminals, not very welcoming. Brazil is the same, all the things you hated here are there as well, well the beach is nice but overall is the same or worst. There are bad things everywhere, economy is not booming in the US now, saw many Americans loose their jobs and having a hard time as well. But is cheap to live there right now, like you said food can be better, even meat if you can afford it, and most importantly, you born there...I guess there is no place like home

I totally agree with this statement. I always believed that Americans were some of the most fortunate in the world. Sure it has it's fair share of problems but the quality of life is MUCH higher there in most major cities vs. Buenos Aires.

I think the biggest reason before to have moved to Buenos Aires was if you could have taken advantage of an 'arbitrage' type of situation. After the previous crash in 2002 there were several opportunities but for the most part all of those arbitrage situations have totally vanished. Life was not only much cheaper but much easier without all the controls/restrictions/regulations in place now.

Very few ex-pats are truly successful in Argentina these days (especially the ones operating in white). There are several ex-pats that are here illegally. Operate their websites and market to other ex-pats but they don't contribute very much to society in Argentina, they don't pay taxes, etc. To do everything legally in Argentina, while attainable is not really the norm for expats.

From living in Argentina many years I've mainly seen these groups that move there:

1) People that fall in love with someone from Argentina and their significant other can't move to the USA so they are stuck moving there to be with the one they love.

2) People that were laid off or lost their job. They figured they would take a sabbatical and move to Argentina because they heard good things about it or the cost of living was much lower (not now). But the vast majority in this group didn't even take the time to learn Spanish, mostly partied and wasted a possible opportunity to come to Argentina and improve themselves.

3) People that might have lost their jobs but don't even pretend to want to do anything productive. They want to party, they want to goof off and they want to stay here until their money runs out. Then they know they are back to the USA (or wherever they are from).

4) People that are determined to create the next "widget" and get rich in Argentina. They try to start some business but then figure out how brutal it is to do business in Argentina and end up moving back.

5) People that do provide some service but never get their DNI or get legal. They are a perma-tourist and just staying in Argentina year after year. Many of these people are able to work over the telephone or internet so they can earn foreign income and still live here.

6) People that are retired or drawing some stable cash flow in foreign currency or pension and moved here when it was cheap but now that it's more expensive they are having second thoughts. A few bought several properties in Argentina after the crash and although things are more difficult they are still earning very stable income renting out their properties. They truly love Argentina and will probably ride things out there as they have lots of cash flow, no debt and plenty of assets.

7) People that work for a multi-national company or a company that had a division in Argentina where they had the opportunity to transfer to Argentina and get paid in dollars/euros/etc.

There are I'm sure other groups that I'm forgetting but probably 98% of the people I met fell into one of these groups. And most of the people I met already left. Only a small handful of ex-pats I met were truly successful in Argentina in business. A few (including some on this website) but not too many when you look at a city the size of Buenos Aires one of the largest cities in the world.

 

[DavidPost]

Regarding few U.S. people who come here being successful in business, it is a fact that few people who go into business anywhere are successful, including the U.S. The failure of new startups is something like 80% in the U.S. in good times. Probably it's partly because people dream of being in their own business and don't go and work for someone first to learn the business--or whatever they need to prepare. There is more to running a business than doing the job.

Also for those who believe things will get worse in Argentina before they get better, I think we are going to see the same in the States. The economics for real recovery just are not there. Nothing has changed! BUT . . . the buying opportunities are fantastic. Conversely, the time to buy in Argentina is not now. I think it will get to the place where the U.S. is right now, with fantastic opportunities--that is, if the country remains free. A lawyer that I know told me he normally takes the crises here in stride but this time he is seeing some things that raise his concern--they are measures that are more like the military dictatorship and that is worrisome, he says.

 

[Mart]

Regarding few U.S. people who come here being successful in business, it is a fact that few people who go into business anywhere are successful, including the U.S. The failure of new startups is something like 80% in the U.S. in good times. Probably it's partly because people dream of being in their own business and don't go and work for someone first to learn the business--or whatever they need to prepare. There is more to running a business than doing the job.

Also for those who believe things will get worse in Argentina before they get better, I think we are going to see the same in the States. The economics for real recovery just are not there. Nothing has changed! BUT . . . the buying opportunities are fantastic. Conversely, the time to buy in Argentina is not now. I think it will get to the place where the U.S. is right now, with fantastic opportunities--that is, if the country remains free. A lawyer that I know told me he normally takes the crises here in stride but this time he is seeing some things that raise his concern--they are measures that are more like the military dictatorship and that is worrisome, he says.

That may be true but having managed businesses in multiple countries, I will say that Argentina is probably one of the hardest places in the world to make a go of it. Between gov't intervention, high COL, high taxes, restrictive laws, the adversarial relationship between employer and employee (and the lawsuits that are a given here), the inflation, the 20-30% raises, the ineffective banking system, the inability to get your funds out of the country or imports in, etc, etc - this is not a place I would ever recommend for starting up a business. People are far better suited looking at other locations in LATAM.

 

[earlyretirement]

That may be true but having managed businesses in multiple countries, I will say that Argentina is probably one of the hardest places in the world to make a go of it. Between gov't intervention, high COL, high taxes, restrictive laws, the adversarial relationship between employer and employee (and the lawsuits that are a given here), the inflation, the 20-30% raises, the ineffective banking system, the inability to get your funds out of the country or imports in, etc, etc - this is not a place I would ever recommend for starting up a business. People are far better suited looking at other locations in LATAM.

Your post is so very spot on target and correct. I also do business all over the world and I've never seen such a difficult environment like Argentina. Everything is backwards, filled with red tape, doesn't make sense, not efficient, etc.

Besides everything that you mentioned Citygirl....even taking account of those things you still have to deal with the fact that there isn't a working judicial system. So if there is a problem and you are in the right....then you have no recourse. And mostly other businesses and individuals know that the judicial system doesn't work so they use that to their advantage.

 

[Chesse]

I don't mean to jump on you at all, but if you get most of your information regarding what you mention related to poor MERCOSUR citizens residing here from your girlfriend - a word of caution. Many Argentinos are quite prejudiced against poor people from other MERCOSUR countries. Take what she tells you with a grain of salt until you meet some of these immigrants yourself and get to know them.

My wife is Paraguayan, moved here about 7 years ago. Since she and I married, we have brought about half of her immediate family here (6 here - another 6 back home) and many cousins, aunts and uncles, from Paraguay because as screwed up as things are here, there are better (all relative) opportunities here than there for the very poor. I know MANY of these poor immigrants through meeting their friends, and family of friends, in all walks of life here. Only two of all we've brought over I've found to be worthless, and those returned to their poor-prison in Paraguay. The rest are honest, hard-working people.

During our life here together, I've seen many cases of plain, open prejudice directed against them, and many cases that were questionable - i.e., reasons giving for denying them something didn't really make any sense.

As in the States with Mexicans and other poor immigrants (legal or illegal), poor MERCOSUR residents here work their a**es off to make a better life for themselves and send money home to their families. Are there drug dealers and thieves amongst them? Absolutely!

But look beyond the "conventional wisdom" here and understand a little more about what goes on. Believe me, there are plenty of Argentine thieves, drug dealers and other criminals. Plenty. And the laws, the lack of good police protection/prevention and of a fair and equitable justice system make their lives pretty damned easy.

There are TONS of good, hard-working LEGAL immigrants/residents from other MERCOSUR countries contributing to the country as a whole, even though many Argentinos, who don't want to admit that they have a lot of aboriginal blood running through their veins, don't want to admit it.

BTW - I should correct some of my statements - when I mention Argentina here, I really mean Buenos Aires. I'm not qualified to comment on anything outside of the city of Buenos Aires and to the north in the suburbs, between the two where I've lived for 6 years.

And I agree with Camberiu to a certain extent related to immigrations policy here. It is as well about the only thing with which I fairly strongly agree with the government on. Also, the government being a part fo the MERCOSUR, they don't have any choice - that's a MERCOSUR privilege.

Here I am, a citizen of a country that was built on immigrants, and I can't bring my wife to the States for a visit on a tourist visa. I have to spend a lot of money and time to get her a spouse immigrant visa just so my wife can see the country her husband comes from. I don't live in the States any more (I am still a citizen - the only time I'll renounce my citizenship is when Texas secedes ) and I don't want to go through all of that hassle just so my parents can meet their daughter-in-law (they've never met her - they are getting old and frail and my father is going through cancer treatments).

Why won't they let her in just to visit? Because she's from a poor MERCOSUR country, isn't rich herself, immigrated to Argentina and even though married to an American they told her that they fear she might continue her immigration pattern to the US and stay there illegally. Even though she did EVERYTHING 100% legal here to gain her permanent residency and live and contribute here.

How freaking stupid! WHY would she stay illegally in the States if we were going to move there, when I can get her into the country as an immigrant legally??? The US makes less and less sense every day, at least to me.

If Argentina would follow its own laws a little better, they wouldn't have such a crime problem to begin with. If they opened their economy to allow it to perform the way it could, there would be a lot less crime as well because there would be fewer poor people thinking they have a right to take stuff from others - because they would understand better what owning something means and would have opportunities too boot.

MOST Argentinos (just like in the States) would not work where the majority of the poor MERCOSUR immigrants work - what do they do when they feel like they don't have opportunities at the level they think they should be?

In the meantime, in my opinion, Argentina is way ahead of the US in terms of immigration policy. And as many people on the forum could probably tell you, I'm a critic of Argentina in many things, but not this.

 

[earlyretirement]

I don't mean to jump on you at all, but if you get most of your information regarding what you mention related to poor MERCOSUR citizens residing here from your girlfriend - a word of caution. Many Argentinos are quite prejudiced against poor people from other MERCOSUR countries. Take what she tells you with a grain of salt until you meet some of these immigrants yourself and get to know them.

My wife is Paraguayan, moved here about 7 years ago. Since she and I married, we have brought about half of her immediate family here (6 here - another 6 back home) and many cousins, aunts and uncles, from Paraguay because as screwed up as things are here, there are better (all relative) opportunities here than there for the very poor. I know MANY of these poor immigrants through meeting their friends, and family of friends, in all walks of life here. Only two of all we've brought over I've found to be worthless, and those returned to their poor-prison in Paraguay. The rest are honest, hard-working people.

During our life here together, I've seen many cases of plain, open prejudice directed against them, and many cases that were questionable - i.e., reasons giving for denying them something didn't really make any sense.

As in the States with Mexicans and other poor immigrants (legal or illegal), poor MERCOSUR residents here work their a**es off to make a better life for themselves and send money home to their families. Are there drug dealers and thieves amongst them? Absolutely!

But look beyond the "conventional wisdom" here and understand a little more about what goes on. Believe me, there are plenty of Argentine thieves, drug dealers and other criminals. Plenty. And the laws, the lack of good police protection/prevention and of a fair and equitable justice system make their lives pretty damned easy.

There are TONS of good, hard-working LEGAL immigrants/residents from other MERCOSUR countries contributing to the country as a whole, even though many Argentinos, who don't want to admit that they have a lot of aboriginal blood running through their veins, don't want to admit it.

BTW - I should correct some of my statements - when I mention Argentina here, I really mean Buenos Aires. I'm not qualified to comment on anything outside of the city of Buenos Aires and to the north in the suburbs, between the two where I've lived for 6 years.

And I agree with Camberiu to a certain extent related to immigrations policy here. It is as well about the only thing with which I fairly strongly agree with the government on. Also, the government being a part fo the MERCOSUR, they don't have any choice - that's a MERCOSUR privilege.

Here I am, a citizen of a country that was built on immigrants, and I can't bring my wife to the States for a visit on a tourist visa. I have to spend a lot of money and time to get her a spouse immigrant visa just so my wife can see the country her husband comes from. I don't live in the States any more (I am still a citizen - the only time I'll renounce my citizenship is when Texas secedes ) and I don't want to go through all of that hassle just so my parents can meet their daughter-in-law (they've never met her - they are getting old and frail and my father is going through cancer treatments).

Why won't they let her in just to visit? Because she's from a poor MERCOSUR country, isn't rich herself, immigrated to Argentina and even though married to an American they told her that they fear she might continue her immigration pattern to the US and stay there illegally. Even though she did EVERYTHING 100% legal here to gain her permanent residency and live and contribute here.

How freaking stupid! WHY would she stay illegally in the States if we were going to move there, when I can get her into the country as an immigrant legally??? The US makes less and less sense every day, at least to me.

If Argentina would follow its own laws a little better, they wouldn't have such a crime problem to begin with. If they opened their economy to allow it to perform the way it could, there would be a lot less crime as well because there would be fewer poor people thinking they have a right to take stuff from others - because they would understand better what owning something means and would have opportunities too boot.

MOST Argentinos (just like in the States) would not work where the majority of the poor MERCOSUR immigrants work - what do they do when they feel like they don't have opportunities at the level they think they should be?

In the meantime, in my opinion, Argentina is way ahead of the US in terms of immigration policy. And as many people on the forum could probably tell you, I'm a critic of Argentina in many things, but not this.

Chesse,
I agree with much of what you wrote. I do think many locals are biased against others from Mercosur countries. Especially Bolivia and Paraguay. I kind of equate it to Americans that complain about Mexicans stealing opportunities from them yet Mexicans are some of the only ones that are willing/able to do the jobs that no Americans want to do.

I've met many hardworking citizens from other Mercosur countries that live in Argentina so I do agree that statement was totally biased.

I did have one question Chesse. You mentioned that your wife can't get a tourist visa to visit the USA. Why not if she is married to you? I have many friends that married their spouses from other Mercosur countries (Bolvia, Peru, Colombia, etc) and they all were able to get tourist visas for their spouses. I'm just curious why your wife can't get a tourist visa to visit the USA?

Also, just out of curiosity what do you plan to do with a Spanish Lit degree?

 

[Chesse]

Chesse,
I agree with much of what you wrote. I do think many locals are biased against others from Mercosur countries. Especially Bolivia and Paraguay. I kind of equate it to Americans that complain about Mexicans stealing opportunities from them yet Mexicans are some of the only ones that are willing/able to do the jobs that no Americans want to do.

I've met many hardworking citizens from other Mercosur countries that live in Argentina so I do agree that statement was totally biased.

I did have one question ElQueso. You mentioned that your wife can't get a tourist visa to visit the USA. Why not if she is married to you? I have many friends that married their spouses from other Mercosur countries (Bolvia, Peru, Colombia, etc) and they all were able to get tourist visas for their spouses. I'm just curious why your wife can't get a tourist visa to visit the USA?

Also, just out of curiosity what do you plan to do with a Spanish Lit degree?

According to the embassy, in a conversation I had with an official there via email, the biggest reason was what I mentioned related to her being an immigrant here. He literally told me that she was considered a high-risk person because she immigrated to Argentina from a poor country. There was not much more information related to his comment about that.

He also said that marriage does mean anything. Everyone applying for a visa must stand on his or her own, marriage is, if anything, a detriment to a tourist visa, going back to the first comment.

In addition, he wrote that a person needs to prove roots in the country in which they are resident. Usually this means a job, paying taxes, a bank account, owning a car, owning property, a large family, etc. They want to know that the person will return to their country of origin within the parameters of the visa.

My wife held jobs in the black here the first year or so that she lived here, until she met me. She was very unsophisticated about things like opening a bank account and such. Once we got married, she stopped working.

Now, she has a bank account in her name and she does some work, part time, in the black again (she likes to be independent and not feel like she's spending "our" money on herself - I love the attitude, but it was her idea ). We're working on getting her enrolled as a monotributista so she can prove salary and tax payments.

She owns no cars, no property. Her extended family with the actual roots are still in Paraguay, where she is not resident.

I was told by the embassy before she went to her interview that I would not be allowed to accompany her into the interview, even though I had read many forums talking about exactly that be allowed. In my place, I wrote a letter explaining that she was married to me, that we wanted to visit my folks due to their age and condition. I included my bank statements, her banks statements (at the time only about a year and a half of history), our marriage certificate from Paraguay (we've been married for almost five years now, not doing this just to get her a tourist visa), nicely legalized (which I had also registered with the US Paraguayan embassy shortly after we were married), my birth certificate, her birth certificate, our past 4 years of long-term rental contracts, the last 4 years of payments to private schools for her sister (trying to prove commitment to be here), made clear in my letter my business arrangements and showed contracts I had with various contract programmers here, all to prove I had no intent to return to the US permanently any time soon. I think there was more even, but don't recall it all now.

Problem is, most of the important stuff was in my name and not hers. We never considered she would need such a history to get a visa.

This was at the beginning of the year that she was rejected. We are going to try again, in addition to all the other stuff, this time with a notarized letter from my folks asking her to be allowed to come, with some of their medical reports/bills, etc. I'm also going to go with her this time (she didn't want me to go last time - she wanted to do it on her own since they weren't going to let me in - I think that was a mistake on my part the first time) in the hopes that I can have some influence as a citizen, in some manner.

I wonder sometimes if the root of the problem was just that our age difference is significant and they plain didn't believe her - maybe thought the letter, marriage certificate and other things were forgeries or something, that we got divorced shortly after, I don't know.

The officials at the embassy have the discretion as to whether or not to give a visa. My wife told me the official with whom she sat down was very sympathetic, but said she had to ask her supervisor. My wife watched her talk to the supervisor, show the documents we had, and without even reviewing the documents or saying a word to the official conducting the interview, simply shook her head "no" and dismissed the interviewing official.

My poor wife felt humiliated. She cried off and on for days after, and until the last couple of weeks had refused to even try again.

 

[earlyretirement]

According to the embassy, in a conversation I had with an official there via email, the biggest reason was what I mentioned related to her being an immigrant here. He literally told me that she was considered a high-risk person because she immigrated to Argentina from a poor country. There was not much more information related to his comment about that.

He also said that marriage does mean anything. Everyone applying for a visa must stand on his or her own, marriage is, if anything, a detriment to a tourist visa, going back to the first comment.

In addition, he wrote that a person needs to prove roots in the country in which they are resident. Usually this means a job, paying taxes, a bank account, owning a car, owning property, a large family, etc. They want to know that the person will return to their country of origin within the parameters of the visa.

My wife held jobs in the black here the first year or so that she lived here, until she met me. She was very unsophisticated about things like opening a bank account and such. Once we got married, she stopped working.

Now, she has a bank account in her name and she does some work, part time, in the black again (she likes to be independent and not feel like she's spending "our" money on herself - I love the attitude, but it was her idea ). We're working on getting her enrolled as a monotributista so she can prove salary and tax payments.

She owns no cars, no property. Her extended family with the actual roots are still in Paraguay, where she is not resident.

I was told by the embassy before she went to her interview that I would not be allowed to accompany her into the interview, even though I had read many forums talking about exactly that be allowed. In my place, I wrote a letter explaining that she was married to me, that we wanted to visit my folks due to their age and condition. I included my bank statements, her banks statements (at the time only about a year and a half of history), our marriage certificate from Paraguay (we've been married for almost five years now, not doing this just to get her a tourist visa), nicely legalized (which I had also registered with the US Paraguayan embassy shortly after we were married), my birth certificate, her birth certificate, our past 4 years of long-term rental contracts, the last 4 years of payments to private schools for her sister (trying to prove commitment to be here), made clear in my letter my business arrangements and showed contracts I had with various contract programmers here, all to prove I had no intent to return to the US permanently any time soon. I think there was more even, but don't recall it all now.

Problem is, most of the important stuff was in my name and not hers. We never considered she would need such a history to get a visa.

This was at the beginning of the year that she was rejected. We are going to try again, in addition to all the other stuff, this time with a notarized letter from my folks asking her to be allowed to come, with some of their medical reports/bills, etc. I'm also going to go with her this time (she didn't want me to go last time - she wanted to do it on her own since they weren't going to let me in - I think that was a mistake on my part the first time) in the hopes that I can have some influence as a citizen, in some manner.

I wonder sometimes if the root of the problem was just that our age difference is significant and they plain didn't believe her - maybe thought the letter, marriage certificate and other things were forgeries or something, that we got divorced shortly after, I don't know.

The officials at the embassy have the discretion as to whether or not to give a visa. My wife told me the official with whom she sat down was very sympathetic, but said she had to ask her supervisor. My wife watched her talk to the supervisor, show the documents we had, and without even reviewing the documents or saying a word to the official conducting the interview, simply shook her head "no" and dismissed the interviewing official.

My poor wife felt humiliated. She cried off and on for days after, and until the last couple of weeks had refused to even try again.

Wow! This is really horrible and it sounds like a difficult situation but I really encourage you to try again. Especially if you've been married for 5 years now! That just doesn't seem right.

Even with her not having any jobs, not owning property or having assets or a bank account I'd think as long as you had bank statements and also a certified letter stating that you'd be totally responsible for her would be enough.

My now wife (then girlfriend) just got out of school, didn't have a bank account, didn't have any assets and she easily got a tourist visa to visit the USA many years ago and we weren't even married. We were just dating. I also know others in the same situation and they easily got tourist visas for their significant others.

My girlfriend at the time just moved to Argentina from a Mercosur country and didn't need to "prove roots" to Argentina at all. She still applied at the USA Embassy in Buenos Aires due to just having a DNI which I assume your wife has.

DEFINITELY go back to the Embassy and try again. Have as much documentation as you can about YOUR assets and bank statements, etc. You can even get a bank account opened for her in the USA just by applying for an ITIN # which you can easily do and it won't cost you anything at all.

This just doesn't sound right at all.

 

[MarksIa]

According to the embassy, in a conversation I had with an official there via email, the biggest reason was what I mentioned related to her being an immigrant here. He literally told me that she was considered a high-risk person because she immigrated to Argentina from a poor country. There was not much more information related to his comment about that.

He also said that marriage does mean anything. Everyone applying for a visa must stand on his or her own, marriage is, if anything, a detriment to a tourist visa, going back to the first comment.

In addition, he wrote that a person needs to prove roots in the country in which they are resident. Usually this means a job, paying taxes, a bank account, owning a car, owning property, a large family, etc. They want to know that the person will return to their country of origin within the parameters of the visa.

My wife held jobs in the black here the first year or so that she lived here, until she met me. She was very unsophisticated about things like opening a bank account and such. Once we got married, she stopped working.

Now, she has a bank account in her name and she does some work, part time, in the black again (she likes to be independent and not feel like she's spending "our" money on herself - I love the attitude, but it was her idea ). We're working on getting her enrolled as a monotributista so she can prove salary and tax payments.

She owns no cars, no property. Her extended family with the actual roots are still in Paraguay, where she is not resident.

I was told by the embassy before she went to her interview that I would not be allowed to accompany her into the interview, even though I had read many forums talking about exactly that be allowed. In my place, I wrote a letter explaining that she was married to me, that we wanted to visit my folks due to their age and condition. I included my bank statements, her banks statements (at the time only about a year and a half of history), our marriage certificate from Paraguay (we've been married for almost five years now, not doing this just to get her a tourist visa), nicely legalized (which I had also registered with the US Paraguayan embassy shortly after we were married), my birth certificate, her birth certificate, our past 4 years of long-term rental contracts, the last 4 years of payments to private schools for her sister (trying to prove commitment to be here), made clear in my letter my business arrangements and showed contracts I had with various contract programmers here, all to prove I had no intent to return to the US permanently any time soon. I think there was more even, but don't recall it all now.

Problem is, most of the important stuff was in my name and not hers. We never considered she would need such a history to get a visa.

This was at the beginning of the year that she was rejected. We are going to try again, in addition to all the other stuff, this time with a notarized letter from my folks asking her to be allowed to come, with some of their medical reports/bills, etc. I'm also going to go with her this time (she didn't want me to go last time - she wanted to do it on her own since they weren't going to let me in - I think that was a mistake on my part the first time) in the hopes that I can have some influence as a citizen, in some manner.

I wonder sometimes if the root of the problem was just that our age difference is significant and they plain didn't believe her - maybe thought the letter, marriage certificate and other things were forgeries or something, that we got divorced shortly after, I don't know.

The officials at the embassy have the discretion as to whether or not to give a visa. My wife told me the official with whom she sat down was very sympathetic, but said she had to ask her supervisor. My wife watched her talk to the supervisor, show the documents we had, and without even reviewing the documents or saying a word to the official conducting the interview, simply shook her head "no" and dismissed the interviewing official.

My poor wife felt humiliated. She cried off and on for days after, and until the last couple of weeks had refused to even try again.

I am sorry that your wife was put through that. I would definitely ask for help from the Senator or Congressman in whose district you last lived (or one in which you have family). The consular staff at the embassy is there to help you, and by extension, your wife. If you can interest a congressperson in helping, you'll almost certainly have a better outcome. Good luck!

 

[earlyretirement]

I am sorry that your wife was put through that. I would definitely ask for help from the Senator or Congressman in whose district you last lived (or one in which you have family). The consular staff at the embassy is there to help you, and by extension, your wife. If you can interest a congressperson in helping, you'll almost certainly have a better outcome. Good luck!

Absolutely this is good advice and I was also going to suggest you take it a step further. Before you try your Senator/Congressman you should ask to set up a face to face appointment with someone in an authority position at the US Embassy in Buenos Aires.

They are VERY nice there at the Embassy. I've had to go over the years many times and they were always very friendly, police and helpful.

With the exception of your wife having some police arrest record (which I assume is definitely not the case) you should definitely be able to get your wife a simple tourist visa to visit the USA and your family.

I wouldn't try to only do things with emails with the Embassy. Set up a face to face meeting as it's much more personable and they can see you and see your face when you explain the situation. Emails are hard to display things like that.

 

[ThomasTo]

The reason she keeps getting rejected is that she is applying for wrong visa. She should be applying for permanent residence based on marriage with US citizen regardless whether she wants to live in the US or not. Once permanent visa is granted, she can travel to the US and obtain green card. Next step is to apply for Reentry Permit with 2 year validity.

 

[earlyretirement]

The reason she keeps getting rejected is that she is applying for wrong visa. She should be applying for permanent residence based on marriage with US citizen regardless whether she wants to live in the US or not. Once permanent visa is granted, she can travel to the US and obtain green card. Next step is to apply for Reentry Permit with 2 year validity.

I'm not sure this is correct. Back when I was living in Buenos Aires, the US Embassy told us that my wife shouldn't apply for permanent residency until we were ready to live in the USA at least the majority of the time. In fact, there are limits to how long you can stay out of the USA the first 2 years while you have the conditional permanent residency.

Unless something recently changed that was the case when we were going through the permanent residency process. We had to wait until we were ready to move to the USA.

Before that, they told her to just travel on a tourist visa when we'd go to visit the USA.

 

[Chesse]

According to a good buddy of mine, who married an Argentina and has been working on getting her permanent residency in the States, he feels like he need to spend at least 6 months in the US during the first two years of residency, until permanent residency is granted.

It seems the question is the phrase (and I'm paraphrasing the phrase) "must maintain a principle residence in the US." Of course someone can claim to have residence in the US with something as simple as a mail forwarding service that gives you a physical address, but in most places to prove residency for "official" purposes you have to prove you are living there. You have to have utility bills and such in your name, shown being paid. Even that can be gotten around by a family member agreeing to put their light bill in your name.

But according to my buddy's lawyer, there are other federal codes that determine residency, as well as the fact that if you leave the country after you're given your temporary residency, it will be registered with INS, as well as the fact that you didn't come back.

His lawyer advised him to spend at least 6 months a year in the US with his wife so they would not fail to be upgraded to permanent residency, or even have the temporary residency revoked.

Therefore, unless I want to go back and live in the States or fly back and forth and go through the rigamarole of maintaining a "residency" in the States for two years (I don't, not right now anyway, either option) the only other way to visit is a tourist visa (B-2).

B-2 is perfectly valid for a spouse of an American Citizen.

However, here are the problems with getting a visa:

http://www.immihelp.com/visitor-visa/

 

[earlyretirement]

According to a good buddy of mine, who married an Argentina and has been working on getting her permanent residency in the States, he feels like he need to spend at least 6 months in the US during the first two years of residency, until permanent residency is granted.

It seems the question is the phrase (and I'm paraphrasing the phrase) "must maintain a principle residence in the US." Of course someone can claim to have residence in the US with something as simple as a mail forwarding service that gives you a physical address, but in most places to prove residency for "official" purposes you have to prove you are living there. You have to have utility bills and such in your name, shown being paid. Even that can be gotten around by a family member agreeing to put their light bill in your name.

But according to my buddy's lawyer, there are other federal codes that determine residency, as well as the fact that if you leave the country after you're given your temporary residency, it will be registered with INS, as well as the fact that you didn't come back.

His lawyer advised him to spend at least 6 months a year in the US with his wife so they would not fail to be upgraded to permanent residency, or even have the temporary residency revoked.

Therefore, unless I want to go back and live in the States or fly back and forth and go through the rigamarole of maintaining a "residency" in the States for two years (I don't, not right now anyway, either option) the only other way to visit is a tourist visa (B-2).

B-2 is perfectly valid for a spouse of an American Citizen.

However, here are the problems with getting a visa:

http://www.immihelp.com/visitor-visa/

This is what the US Embassy told us as well. In fact, we applied for it while we were still living in Argentina because we were going back and forth. We had a place rented in the USA but we also still had our place in Buenos Aires. They actually hassled my wife when she was coming back into the USA one of the times as they told her that she should be spending the majority of time in the USA. I think the first year we applied it was about half and half.

Yeah, you can probably get around it as you mentioned, but we didn't want to take a chance on her not getting per permanent residency. They first grant you a 2 year CONDITIONAL green card and then you have to renew it. After the 2 years were up and we had to renew it, they ask for a TON of documentation including bank statements for both, health insurance documentation, car loan/car insurance paperwork, utility bills in your name at your primary residence and a few other documents.

And trust me if you're spending the majority of the time outside of the USA, I'm sure they are going to notice it and really question it. I'm not saying it's impossible but my feeling was why take the chance? So we just followed what the US Embassy in Buenos Aires told us which was to wait until right before we were going to permanently head back to the USA.

But I still say there should be NO reason why your wife can't get a tourist visa to visit, especially if you've been married 5 years. I've never heard of anything like that before.

 

[PatrickPt]

According to the embassy, in a conversation I had with an official there via email, the biggest reason was what I mentioned related to her being an immigrant here. He literally told me that she was considered a high-risk person because she immigrated to Argentina from a poor country. There was not much more information related to his comment about that.

He also said that marriage does mean anything. Everyone applying for a visa must stand on his or her own, marriage is, if anything, a detriment to a tourist visa, going back to the first comment.

In addition, he wrote that a person needs to prove roots in the country in which they are resident. Usually this means a job, paying taxes, a bank account, owning a car, owning property, a large family, etc. They want to know that the person will return to their country of origin within the parameters of the visa.

My wife held jobs in the black here the first year or so that she lived here, until she met me. She was very unsophisticated about things like opening a bank account and such. Once we got married, she stopped working.

Now, she has a bank account in her name and she does some work, part time, in the black again (she likes to be independent and not feel like she's spending "our" money on herself - I love the attitude, but it was her idea ). We're working on getting her enrolled as a monotributista so she can prove salary and tax payments.

She owns no cars, no property. Her extended family with the actual roots are still in Paraguay, where she is not resident.

I was told by the embassy before she went to her interview that I would not be allowed to accompany her into the interview, even though I had read many forums talking about exactly that be allowed. In my place, I wrote a letter explaining that she was married to me, that we wanted to visit my folks due to their age and condition. I included my bank statements, her banks statements (at the time only about a year and a half of history), our marriage certificate from Paraguay (we've been married for almost five years now, not doing this just to get her a tourist visa), nicely legalized (which I had also registered with the US Paraguayan embassy shortly after we were married), my birth certificate, her birth certificate, our past 4 years of long-term rental contracts, the last 4 years of payments to private schools for her sister (trying to prove commitment to be here), made clear in my letter my business arrangements and showed contracts I had with various contract programmers here, all to prove I had no intent to return to the US permanently any time soon. I think there was more even, but don't recall it all now.

Problem is, most of the important stuff was in my name and not hers. We never considered she would need such a history to get a visa.

This was at the beginning of the year that she was rejected. We are going to try again, in addition to all the other stuff, this time with a notarized letter from my folks asking her to be allowed to come, with some of their medical reports/bills, etc. I'm also going to go with her this time (she didn't want me to go last time - she wanted to do it on her own since they weren't going to let me in - I think that was a mistake on my part the first time) in the hopes that I can have some influence as a citizen, in some manner.

I wonder sometimes if the root of the problem was just that our age difference is significant and they plain didn't believe her - maybe thought the letter, marriage certificate and other things were forgeries or something, that we got divorced shortly after, I don't know.

The officials at the embassy have the discretion as to whether or not to give a visa. My wife told me the official with whom she sat down was very sympathetic, but said she had to ask her supervisor. My wife watched her talk to the supervisor, show the documents we had, and without even reviewing the documents or saying a word to the official conducting the interview, simply shook her head "no" and dismissed the interviewing official.

My poor wife felt humiliated. She cried off and on for days after, and until the last couple of weeks had refused to even try again.

My Colombian boyfriend (with Argentine DNI) was quaking in his boots when he applied for the U.S. tourist visa. Young, old, rich, poor, they're are always treated like drug mules no matter which country they're trying to go to. Hell, even I got thrown in a room to wait for a full body scan leaving Colombia because I was a young woman traveling alone with a ton of stamps showing years of travel between Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil, and I told security I had been traveling around with my boyfriend. (That was the wrong thing to say, even if it was the truth). It's just the way it is. Sad but true. He had been in Argentina working legally for three years when he applied for the tourist visa, with the same job he'd come to Argentina for. He had all the bank statements and everything, and got the visa, because he was able to prove that he'd go back. His Colombian friends who had visited the U.S. before advised him to not even mention who he was visiting or why, lest they think he was trying to stay in the country. I think he told them he wanted to visit NASA or something.

I am sad to say that I'm not in the least bit surprised that your wife was not granted a tourist visa. I am a little surprised that you thought she'd get it, actually. Because no, marriage does not make a difference. She had nothing to show that she was tied to living in Argentina. If anything, the fact that you were supporting her and paying rent and her sister's tuition might have just made her look like an opportunist. And earlier you said that she did everything 100% legal to immigrate to and have a life in Argentina. Well, if she was working en negro, that's not entirely true. Because now, unfortunately, she doesn't have the years of work records to prove her case. Her only roots in Argentina are financed by you, her American husband. I don't think it matters whether you plan to stay in Argentina or not, since they have told you that the two of you being married makes no difference in her application. I wonder if showing your financial status did more harm than good, I guess is my point. As unfair and unkind as it may be, the two of you are going to get a lot of skepticism thrown at you from the officials due to the fact that she's young, poor and a Paraguayan immigrant, and you're older, considerably wealthier and American. If you were a government official who'd seen it all, what would you think? It does not look good on paper, and that's all they care about. They think she's gonna drop you like a hot potato as soon as she lands, to put it bluntly. It would not be the first time in the history of U.S. immigration, that's for sure. I do not say this to be unkind; I say it to stress that you should not view your marriage as an asset to her case here. They seem to have made that pretty clear.

I sincerely hope that you are able to resolve things somehow, so that she can travel to the U.S. and meet your family. Get going with her monotributista stuff, stat. Good luck!