Newcomer Negotiating and making an offer on apartment

[FuturoBA]

Anybody have any insights on how to make an initial offer when finding an apartment for sale?? I take it many properties are going below asking price. I've heard it can be anywhere from around 5-15% on average, so are people offering 20% off with the expectation of meeting at 10-15%?? Or is the offer based on what you think it is worth w room for negotiating??

I'm aware of finding a baseline of the average cost per sq meter as that data is available, but where does one go from there?? There's no comps where you can compare what's listed to what's been sold and see more than just sqm2 such as amenities, floor level, balcony/terrace size etc.

Obvious the caveat is a lot also depends on what the seller is thinking, as some may be over zealous on over-valuing it or more motivated to sell it.

 

[earlyretirement]

Anybody have any insights on how to make an initial offer when finding an apartment for sale?? I take it many properties are going below asking price. I've heard it can be anywhere from around 5-15% on average, so are people offering 20% off with the expectation of meeting at 10-15%?? Or is the offer based on what you think it is worth w room for negotiating??

I'm aware of finding a baseline of the average cost per sq meter as that data is available, but where does one go from there?? There's no comps where you can compare what's listed to what's been sold and see more than just sqm2 such as amenities, floor level, balcony/terrace size etc.

Obvious the caveat is a lot also depends on what the seller is thinking, as some may be over zealous on over-valuing it or more motivated to sell it.

You can make the offer as low as you want. However, after a certain % you just go from being competitive to pissing them off and not wanting them to deal with you. My philosophy is you can always go low but not too low. The worst they can say is no. A better approach is to use ZonaProp and see what other properties in the area are going for. The issue is prices can be all over the place.

I usually always go at least 10% lower even if it's fairly prices. You may try 15% but in this type of market I haven't seen ANYONE get 20% off but you can try. New construction doesn't move much at all. No comps like the USA and even if there were, they are all fake prices they record at the closing. Locals don't want to pay stamp tax, transfer tax, capital gains tax. So many just make you record a false lower price.

 

[FuturoBA]

Yeah it seems like everything is all over the map. I think the best strategy is to make an offer one is comfortable with w/in a few % points and despite what they counter stay within that range. If they say no, it was either too low or they value it too high, either way you won't overpay what you think it's worth. Obviously do some research to get an idea of what's what. If it's not a no, it's a maybe and you're on the right track.

 

[earlyretirement]

Yeah it seems like everything is all over the map. I think the best strategy is to make an offer one is comfortable with w/in a few % points and despite what they counter stay within that range. If they say no, it was either too low or they value it too high, either way you won't overpay what you think it's worth. Obviously do some research to get an idea of what's what. If it's not a no, it's a maybe and you're on the right track.

Yes, exactly. NO ONE is going to accept 20% lower these days. Just not going to happen and more times then not they will think you're an idiot and just tell you not to come back. Negotiating is an art of really seeing what properties in that area are going for per sq. meter. You go too low and they tell you to get lost. I've sold hundreds of properties in Buenos Aires over the past 20 years as well and when I get a total idiot low ball offer, I just tell them now to bother making another offer.

You can get an idea of what general cost per sq. meter and then add up or down based on these things:

- Amenities in the building
- Which floor is it on (higher floor better for natural sunlight, noise, view, etc)
- Neighborhood
- 24/7 security?


New construction doesn't budget too much but my company is buying in bulk so we have been able to negotiate discounts each time we buy. But on pre-existing the typical discount has been around 7% or so these last few months.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

@FuturoBA i'm sure you already read it all, but for anyone else, read everything on https://buysellba.com/step-by-step-guide-to-buy before you start researching.

and yeah the prices are listed high, with tons of apartments sitting on market for 6 months, 2 years. it's crazy! some guy in Villa Crespo trying to sell me a 27 m2 apartment on the top floor is asking (USD) 52k, but it was listed at 65k, and he claims he got an offer for 72k. it's been on the market for like 3 months, and he doesn't seem in a hurry. contrast that with the USA where property taxes, utilities, and an empty house not generating revenue means sellers want to sell as quickly as possible! just seems to be much more slowwwwww here in BsAs.

15% lower offer seems smart, like earlyretirement said. but if they are just listing a shithole apartment for 60k because they see others selling for 60k, you could offer less, but i'm not sure if you are...but i'm in no position to do the extensive reno/projects that i can do in the USA, here in Argentina where i don't know any general contractors/skilled laborers

 

[FuturoBA]

Yes, exactly. NO ONE is going to accept 20% lower these days. Just not going to happen and more times then not they will think you're an idiot and just tell you not to come back. Negotiating is an art of really seeing what properties in that area are going for per sq. meter. You go too low and they tell you to get lost. I've sold hundreds of properties in Buenos Aires over the past 20 years as well and when I get a total idiot low ball offer, I just tell them now to bother making another offer.

You can get an idea of what general cost per sq. meter and then add up or down based on these things:

- Amenities in the building
- Which floor is it on (higher floor better for natural sunlight, noise, view, etc)
- Neighborhood
- 24/7 security?


New construction doesn't budget too much but my company is buying in bulk so we have been able to negotiate discounts each time we buy. But on pre-existing the typical discount has been around 7% or so these last few months.

Exactly what my broker told me as well. You go too low you run the risk of not taking you seriously. Also w sqm have to consider covered vs uncovered and not just total. Something I also learned is that once you make an offer, the other broker is supposed to take the listing off the market, and many listings are repeats bc they're using multiple brokers.

@FuturoBA i'm sure you already read it all, but for anyone else, read everything on https://buysellba.com/step-by-step-guide-to-buy before you start researching.

and yeah the prices are listed high, with tons of apartments sitting on market for 6 months, 2 years. it's crazy! some guy in Villa Crespo trying to sell me a 27 m2 apartment on the top floor is asking (USD) 52k, but it was listed at 65k, and he claims he got an offer for 72k. it's been on the market for like 3 months, and he doesn't seem in a hurry. contrast that with the USA where property taxes, utilities, and an empty house not generating revenue means sellers want to sell as quickly as possible! just seems to be much more slowwwwww here in BsAs.

15% lower offer seems smart, like earlyretirement said. but if they are just listing a shithole apartment for 60k because they see others selling for 60k, you could offer less, but i'm not sure if you are...but i'm in no position to do the extensive reno/projects that i can do in the USA, here in Argentina where i don't know any general contractors/skilled laborers

I thought about a reno as some places were in great areas and great sizes, but decided I don't know the first thing about it here. Purchasing is already difficult enough no need to add another project on top right now.

 

[earlyretirement]

@FuturoBA i'm sure you already read it all, but for anyone else, read everything on https://buysellba.com/step-by-step-guide-to-buy before you start researching.

and yeah the prices are listed high, with tons of apartments sitting on market for 6 months, 2 years. it's crazy! some guy in Villa Crespo trying to sell me a 27 m2 apartment on the top floor is asking (USD) 52k, but it was listed at 65k, and he claims he got an offer for 72k. it's been on the market for like 3 months, and he doesn't seem in a hurry. contrast that with the USA where property taxes, utilities, and an empty house not generating revenue means sellers want to sell as quickly as possible! just seems to be much more slowwwwww here in BsAs.

15% lower offer seems smart, like earlyretirement said. but if they are just listing a shithole apartment for 60k because they see others selling for 60k, you could offer less, but i'm not sure if you are...but i'm in no position to do the extensive reno/projects that i can do in the USA, here in Argentina where i don't know any general contractors/skilled laborers

Yes, you have to remember here there are NO mortgages and expenses are VERY low so people have NO mortgage and no debt on it. Some people just wait until they get their # and they can wait years. I've had clients the same way. They don't care how long it's on the market like the USA where it's a concern. It cost almost nothing for holding cost here in Argentina as utilities are also almost nothing (for now).

Yes, there is an art to negotiating here. Just beware that almost no one is going to negotiate more than 15% off list price. Sure, it COULD happen but think not likely. Renovations you have to be VERY careful. I'll post some stories of people wanting to hire us as they got screwed. I've done over 100 renovations and new builds.

Exactly what my broker told me as well. You go too low you run the risk of not taking you seriously. Also w sqm have to consider covered vs uncovered and not just total. Something I also learned is that once you make an offer, the other broker is supposed to take the listing off the market, and many listings are repeats bc they're using multiple brokers.

I thought about a reno as some places were in great areas and great sizes, but decided I don't know the first thing about it here. Purchasing is already difficult enough no need to add another project on top right now.

There is NO rule of law here. Most realtors here are snakes. The industry is NOT regulated. Read my website of my first apartment purchase in Buenos Aires - https://buysellba.com/my-first-purchase-in-ba

Too many realtors here are snakes.

 

[FuturoBA]

Yes, there is an art to negotiating here. Just beware that almost no one is going to negotiate more than 15% off list price. Sure, it COULD happen but think not likely. Renovations you have to be VERY careful. I'll post some stories of people wanting to hire us as they got screwed. I've done over 100 renovations and new builds.

Working with contractors and renovators can be pretty bad here in the states, I can't imagine how it's like in Argentina and as tempting as it sounds, sounds like something best left to the pros.

 

[earlyretirement]

Working with contractors and renovators can be pretty bad here in the states, I can't imagine how it's like in Argentina and as tempting as it sounds, sounds like something best left to the pros.

It is a freaking nightmare there if you're not careful. I've done over 100 renovations there and all of them turned out well but we did a LOT of renovation management.

You can see some of the cool projects here including the complete build-out of custom homes:

BuySellBA

Don't buy real estate in Buenos Aires without knowing all of the laws, ins and outs and all the possible pitfalls.

buysellba.com

In Argentina, they won't hesitate to stab you in the back. I will post when I have more time about people that cheated their own family members. It's a jungle here.

 

[Digital Nomad]

It is totally true about offering too low. I did this last week and they were so insulted they didn't want to deal with me anymore. Today I followed up to ask them for a counter offer and they just told me the property was already sold. This even though it was available late Friday afternoon. I made the mistake of just contacting the listing on Zona Prop which was the seller's realtor. I should have had my own. The listing agent was obviously fighting for the seller not me.

 

[earlyretirement]

It is totally true about offering too low. I did this last week and they were so insulted they didn't want to deal with me anymore. Today I followed up to ask them for a counter offer and they just told me the property was already sold. This even though it was available late Friday afternoon. I made the mistake of just contacting the listing on Zona Prop which was the seller's realtor. I should have had my own. The listing agent was obviously fighting for the seller not me.

Yes, I have mentioned this many times. This is NOT the market where a seller is going to take 20% off the listing price. You should see what the price is per sq. meter that they are asking and you can see some comparables. You can go to this website and see recent comparables for price per sq. meter for each neighborhood but those are asking prices on the main real estate portals:

BuySellBA

Don't buy real estate in Buenos Aires without knowing all of the laws, ins and outs and all the possible pitfalls.

buysellba.com

You should always have your own buyer's agent that will fight for your best interests. It's never a good idea to just contact listings off of Zona Prop. That is mostly just the seller's agent and they will be fighting for the seller's price not yours as the buyer. Once you contact them directly and see the property they will say that they showed you the property and won't want to work with a buyer's agent. You are going to pay the 4% realtor's fee anyway so you should really use a buyer's agent that will fight for your best interests, write up the offer, etc.


Feel free to PM me and I can recommend some good agents that I have worked with for the past 20+ years.

 

[BuySellBA]

Having your own buyer's agent is absolutely essential. It makes absolutely NO sense to work directly with the seller's agent who will be fighting for the best possible and highest price. As we have mentioned many times, most realtor's in Buenos Aires are horrible. There ARE a few good realtor's that are ethical and hardworking but it is not the norm and this is based on over 20 years worth of buying and selling in Buenos Aires and dealing with buyer's and seller's agents.

The best thing you can do is to work with one that has a long track record and history of providing great service. And always have your own buyer's agent when buying a property.

 

[Digital Nomad]

Having your own buyer's agent is absolutely essential. It makes absolutely NO sense to work directly with the seller's agent who will be fighting for the best possible and highest price. As we have mentioned many times, most realtor's in Buenos Aires are horrible. There ARE a few good realtor's that are ethical and hardworking but it is not the norm and this is based on over 20 years worth of buying and selling in Buenos Aires and dealing with buyer's and seller's agents.

The best thing you can do is to work with one that has a long track record and history of providing great service. And always have your own buyer's agent when buying a property.

This is great advice. I was just contacting off Zonaprop and sometimes it would take forever to hear back if at all. Once I got a realtor things went much smoother. Pablo my realtor is very good and has showed me many units on Zonaprop and also many off-plan new construction properties. To me it seems like the new construction is a safer play. I went into some older units and they were either in poor condition or I could literally smell humidity and mold. I am on a short list of possible options now.

 

[MikeYoung]

This is great advice. I was just contacting off Zonaprop and sometimes it would take forever to hear back if at all. Once I got a realtor things went much smoother. Pablo my realtor is very good and has showed me many units on Zonaprop and also many off-plan new construction properties. To me it seems like the new construction is a safer play. I went into some older units and they were either in poor condition or I could literally smell humidity and mold. I am on a short list of possible options now.

This was also my experience with the real estate portals. It seems strange paying a realtor to buy because in the USA it is the seller that pays but here I'm told both the buyer and seller pay a fee. I guess it is what it is. Annoying.

@Digital Nomad I sent you a DM if you can respond when you get a chance. Thanks.

 

[FuturoBA]

The RE estimate calculator from https://buysellba.com/step-by-step-guide-to-buy , https://lnpropiedades.lanacion.com.ar/servicios/calculadora/valuador was pretty accurate when I recently purchased. I had forgotten about the link, but looking back and comparing what I offered, the the above calculator came pretty close to the final price. Suffice to say pretty accurate in my case with a roughly 8% discount from asking.

 

[Digital Nomad]

The RE estimate calculator from https://buysellba.com/step-by-step-guide-to-buy , https://lnpropiedades.lanacion.com.ar/servicios/calculadora/valuador was pretty accurate when I recently purchased. I had forgotten about the link, but looking back and comparing what I offered, the the above calculator came pretty close to the final price. Suffice to say pretty accurate in my case with a roughly 8% discount from asking.

Yes it is a good tool to see what current prices are like. I am going through the buying process now and it is a bit frustrating as many listings on Zonaprop I am finding are not really available. The process is much much easier in the USA as we can use Zillow and it has all the listings on the market for sale with estimated values. I might have waited a bit too long as some properties I had as options are no longer available now. There are a lot of new construction properties but most aren't available until far into the future several years and I want something that will be finished soon.

People should just know the process is much different here to purchase compared to the US. @FuturoBA were you able to pay for your property directly via wire outside of Argentina?

 

[FuturoBA]

Yes it is a good tool to see what current prices are like. I am going through the buying process now and it is a bit frustrating as many listings on Zonaprop I am finding are not really available. The process is much much easier in the USA as we can use Zillow and it has all the listings on the market for sale with estimated values. I might have waited a bit too long as some properties I had as options are no longer available now. There are a lot of new construction properties but most aren't available until far into the future several years and I want something that will be finished soon.

People should just know the process is much different here to purchase compared to the US. @FuturoBA were you able to pay for your property directly via wire outside of Argentina?

Yeah the seller had an overseas account so I was able to wire it there.

Some sellers also refused to say whether they had or were willing to do wire transfers, which I take it, it would be a point of negotiation if it got there. I got the sense everything's negotiable so some sellers didn't want to seem they were showing their hands too soon.

 

[Digital Nomad]

Yeah the seller had an overseas account so I was able to wire it there.

Some sellers also refused to say whether they had or were willing to do wire transfers, which I take it, it would be a point of negotiation if it got there. I got the sense everything's negotiable so some sellers didn't want to seem they were showing their hands too soon.

That is awesome! That seems like the dream scenario as it is so easy and doesn't cost you anything. My parents prefer to do it that way but not many sellers are willing to allow wire directly to them. I only found one seller that would maybe allow that. Seems like owners don't want to do that as they don't want the Argentina IRS to know they have an account outside Argentina or at least that is what I was told. Congratulations on your purchase. I hope to find something soon.

 

[earlyretirement]

Yeah the seller had an overseas account so I was able to wire it there.

Some sellers also refused to say whether they had or were willing to do wire transfers, which I take it, it would be a point of negotiation if it got there. I got the sense everything's negotiable so some sellers didn't want to seem they were showing their hands too soon.

Great! This is always the preferred route to take when buying an apartment in Buenos Aires if possible but this isn't always possible. Many times the sellers will demand cash in Buenos Aires. And if going the cash route it's important that you structure it so it's all legal to avoid problems when you go to sell the property. It's easy to bring in funds with a cueva but it's not technically legal. Hopefully President Milei makes things easier in the future but it's still important to do everything legal to avoid issues when selling.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Far fewer owners are discounting. My friends have properties for sale and they are holding off for full asking price now. Just read this article and it seems to say price reductions are far fewer as well which wasn't the case last year before the elections.

Real Estate News - The fall in home sales prices stopped: Why 2024 would be a year of recovery after a prolonged real estate crisis - Infobae

The fall in home sales prices stopped: Why 2024 would be a year of recovery after a prolonged real estate crisis - Infobae Source...

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