Apartment Rental NYC Airbnb New Regulations, Will BA follow?

[RichardOne]

New York City is cracking down on illegal short-term rentals in a move that will limit the amount of Airbnb-style offerings in the city.

The Short-Term Rental Registration Law, which passed in 2022 and established a litany of rules required to register as a short-term rental, will start being enforced on Sept. 5, The Associated Press reported.

New York City is cutting back on Airbnb offerings. Will other cities follow?

What are the new rules for Airbnb in New York City? Why Airbnb sued New York City. What other cities are banning short-term rentals?

news.yahoo.com

 

[RealLit]

GOD, I hope so. AirBNB is the devil for those who have to actually live in a city, as opposed to visiting it.

 

[Jetreee]

GOD, I hope so. AirBNB is the devil for those who have to actually live in a city, as opposed to visiting it.

They have ruined neighborhoods in Barcelona

 

[earlyretirement]

Nope. Buenos Aires won't ever stop Airbnb. What I actually think they should do is tax owners automatically and give it to the city. Mexico started this earlier this year and although painful having to pay more taxes, most of it is charged to the rental guests but some income tax has to be paid now. Mexico put an even bigger tax if you didn't input your tax ID number. If you put it in, the tax goes down. But all the rental guests are paying the same taxes as hotel. So there is an additional surcharge of like 19% in most cities in Mexico. But it goes straight to the government.

If anything, if Milei gets elected probably there will be more Airbnbs than ever. It would be insane to have to rent your apartment for 3 years under the current law. That's why there are only around 900 long-term rentals available out of a city of 3,000,000 people. It will go down to zero rents soon.

Milei should actually come up with a plan that would be easily to implement that would automatically get revenue. Things like forcing Airbnb to charge X% right on every booking would be an easy fix.

 

[SpaCash]

Great. Western socialists with no understanding of the markets is just what Argentina needs 🤣. Airbnb and short term rentals are NOT the root of the issues.

GOD, I hope so. AirBNB is the devil for those who have to actually live in a city, as opposed to visiting it.

 

[earlyretirement]

Great. Western socialists with no understanding of the markets is just what Argentina needs 🤣. Airbnb and short term rentals are NOT the root of the issues.

I agree. Airbnb isn't the issue. It's the crazy idiotic laws the government created. It makes it so NO owners want to rent out their properties for fair market rents. You have to look at it from both sides. Not just the tenants but also the owners. A compromise has to be reached at both ends.

Actually I think that they need to change the laws with tenants as well. It's too difficult getting someone out that stops paying. And the system of getting someone to co-sign for you and be a guarantor only that owns a property is antiquated.

Someone needs to think totally outside of the box here. Maybe instead of fighting with Airbnb like many other cities, Milei does something pro-business and tries to work with them to structure some good system for long-term rents as well where both sides are getting protected. There is a way it can be done with a rework of the existing laws.

You gotta start somewhere but no way Airbnb is to blame for this. I know lots of people that would rather keep their place empty vs. doing a long 3 year lease in pesos. They would be happy working out some reasonable lease but not this one. Let's hope the Senate passed the amendment.

 

[Jetreee]

I agree. Airbnb isn't the issue. It's the crazy idiotic laws the government created. It makes it so NO owners want to rent out their properties for fair market rents. You have to look at it from both sides. Not just the tenants but also the owners. A compromise has to be reached at both ends.

Actually I think that they need to change the laws with tenants as well. It's too difficult getting someone out that stops paying. And the system of getting someone to co-sign for you and be a guarantor only that owns a property is antiquated.

Someone needs to think totally outside of the box here. Maybe instead of fighting with Airbnb like many other cities, Milei does something pro-business and tries to work with them to structure some good system for long-term rents as well where both sides are getting protected. There is a way it can be done with a rework of the existing laws.

You gotta start somewhere but no way Airbnb is to blame for this. I know lots of people that would rather keep their place empty vs. doing a long 3 year lease in pesos. They would be happy working out some reasonable lease but not this one. Let's hope the Senate passed the amendment.

I feel that I may trigger some controversy but this is my take.

The perspective I tend to find is that, outside the 1%, there are two classes: those with assets, and those without assets. Those with assets want to sustain a certain quality of life off the passive income of those assets meanwhile those without assets want to pursue a reasonable quality of life without giving away too much of their income acquired from labour.

The key problem with airbnb is that it gives so much leverage to asset owners with no, or negative, consideration of those without assets.

The world will always be an amalgamation of those with assets and those without assets.

I’m a fairly keen airbnb user. I’m aware that my use of airbnb perpetuates the inequality of those without assets yet meanwhile I myself am priced out of assets within my own country for the same reason. It doesn’t make me comfortable nor happy to use the services that airbnb provides but at the same time it’s not an evil thing to exercise geographical arbitrage

Airbnb is a symptom, not a cause but it does indeed supercharge the symptoms. I don’t know what the solution is, but I don’t think you should ever demonise those who work to sustain their livelihood.

I maintain that the root of all problems are those with assets that want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury though the biggest problem are the 1% who pits subsets of the 99% against each other

 

[Jetreee]

I feel that I may trigger some controversy but this is my take.

The perspective I tend to find is that, outside the 1%, there are two classes: those with assets, and those without assets. Those with assets want to sustain a certain quality of life off the passive income of those assets meanwhile those without assets want to pursue a reasonable quality of life without giving away too much of their income acquired from labour.

The key problem with airbnb is that it gives so much leverage to asset owners with no, or negative, consideration of those without assets.

The world will always be an amalgamation of those with assets and those without assets.

I’m a fairly keen airbnb user. I’m aware that my use of airbnb perpetuates the inequality of those without assets yet meanwhile I myself am priced out of assets within my own country for the same reason. It doesn’t make me comfortable nor happy to use the services that airbnb provides but at the same time it’s not an evil thing to exercise geographical arbitrage

Airbnb is a symptom, not a cause but it does indeed supercharge the symptoms. I don’t know what the solution is, but I don’t think you should ever demonise those who work to sustain their livelihood.

I maintain that the root of all problems are those with assets that want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury though the biggest problem are the 1% who pits subsets of the 99% against each other

Just for some clarity, as somebody in their twenties, participating in any economy these days feels like starting a game of monopoly when 3/4 of the board is occupied and without the benefit of collecting $20 after passing go. The bulk of what there is to be had, has been had, and even owning a small parcel to live in and call your own is beyond the reach of so many in western economies

 

[earlyretirement]

Just for some clarity, as somebody in their twenties, participating in any economy these days feels like starting a game of monopoly when 3/4 of the board is occupied and without the benefit of collecting $20 after passing go. The bulk of what there is to be had, has been had, and even owning a small parcel to live in and call your own is beyond the reach of so many in western economies

You have some clear and level-headed comments and thought process. However, I could argue the other side of the coin. I feel like many people in their twenties just feel like they are owed something in life. I am certainly NOT saying this is you. I'm just saying that I see this more and more these days. Many complain how life isn't fair and how everything is too expensive.

When I was in my twenties, I was working 70-90 hour weeks most weeks for years on end. I didn't think anything was owed to me and I knew if I wanted something that I had to work hard to get it. I didn't have wealthy parents that could even pay for my University education. I graduated college with over $100,000 in student loans that I had to pay back. People back then said the same thing that it was too expensive. (I was really bitter especially watching fraternity brothers from wealthy families that got unlimited funds and no student loans). I do agree with you that prices are out of control in many places in the USA.

But the "aha" moment for me was when I figured out that complaining about it wasn't going to help. That it would take a road map and a lot of hard work to start out.

If you can't play "monopoly" in the USA or first world country then you have to play it somewhere else. There isn't any excuse for you to not figure out where to play your own monopoly game somewhere else. Or to buy your own place in a great city for an affordable place. Take Buenos Aires for example. It's one of the finest cities in the world. One of the best qualities of life if you are making US dollars.

Prices have fallen the past few years. Even today you can buy a brand new studio apartment in Recoleta/Palermo for under $85,000 US. I'm talking about a really nice place. Many people in the USA are spending more than that on cars. You can turn around and either live in that place or you can rent it out via Airbnb and start to play your own real life "monopoly".

I've purchased real estate in many countries in South America. Most of the times when I was buying it, people were complaining on forums like this saying how it was too expensive. How that country would go to sh*t. How I was stupid and would lose all my money in them. Blah, blah, blah. You know what? On every single place I've purchased real estate, prices went up drastically over the long term. Sure, some places there were years of ups and downs. (COVID was NOT a fun or pretty time and was downright scary!). But in all the places I bought, I bought in the best neighborhoods and all have gone up significantly in value. Every single one of them paid for themselves in 10 years or less of owning them.

Airbnb isn't the one to blame. No one is. You have to either start playing "Monopoly" or sit on the sidelines saying how life isn't fair and it's too expensive and you and you will never own. $85,000 isn't much to own in one of the best world capital cities in the world. Buenos Aires is only one example. There are many others around the world.

Just remember, in life every single person needs a place to live. Pretty much for the rest of their life. So you can either pay rent your entire life to someone else. Or you can own. If you don't have the money then you work your ass off to earn enough money. If you're working your ass off and you still can't make enough then you borrow money so you can buy.

There is NO excuse these days with all the information out there. The power of the internet and the sharing of information and all the facts, figures, videos, blogs, etc. It's all out there. There is literally no excuse at all these days not to figure it out.

One thing you can't do is complain how life is unfair and it's too expensive. Things don't tend to end up well for people that do this. Just my 2 cents.

 

[earlyretirement]

I feel that I may trigger some controversy but this is my take.

The perspective I tend to find is that, outside the 1%, there are two classes: those with assets, and those without assets. Those with assets want to sustain a certain quality of life off the passive income of those assets meanwhile those without assets want to pursue a reasonable quality of life without giving away too much of their income acquired from labour.

The key problem with airbnb is that it gives so much leverage to asset owners with no, or negative, consideration of those without assets.

The world will always be an amalgamation of those with assets and those without assets.

I’m a fairly keen airbnb user. I’m aware that my use of airbnb perpetuates the inequality of those without assets yet meanwhile I myself am priced out of assets within my own country for the same reason. It doesn’t make me comfortable nor happy to use the services that airbnb provides but at the same time it’s not an evil thing to exercise geographical arbitrage

Airbnb is a symptom, not a cause but it does indeed supercharge the symptoms. I don’t know what the solution is, but I don’t think you should ever demonise those who work to sustain their livelihood.

I maintain that the root of all problems are those with assets that want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury though the biggest problem are the 1% who pits subsets of the 99% against each other

We can agree to disagree. Especially about the "those with assets want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury".

You shouldn't try to vilify people that have assets. Yeah, I get there is some generational wealth that just gets passed on from generation to generation. But there are a LOT of hardworking people that just want to live life. They want to be able to retire someday and have food on their plates and a roof over their head. They want to just support their families and raise their kids in a good environment and to provide things to their kids that they never had. To be able to pay for their kids college education since they never had that done for them. This isn't evil. It's just wanting to be a good parent and a good human being.

Not everyone that has assets is evil. When I first started coming to Argentina over 20+ years ago, I just figured out that owning properties in Argentina was better than the USA and I cashed out my 401K and sold my house to do this since you can't leverage here. Things turned out pretty much like I thought they would (even though everyone and their brother told me I'd lose all my money believing in Argentina and how much of a sh*t hole it was).

Now, more than 2 decades later, people tell me that I was "lucky". I laugh and say it wasn't luck. Sure, it was good timing but luck had nothing to do with it. It's about looking at reality and kind of looking down the road predicting how things will be.

When I started making really meaningful local friends I gave them my thesis why they should buy here too. These weren't rich kids from wealthy families. I mean some had families that had some money but none of them were wealthy.

Many of them had been saving for a few years. Many of them got loans from family members and scraped up enough to buy a place. When I started buying you could get a brand new luxury apartment in Palermo in "pozo" (breaking ground new construction phase) for $47,000 US. Jesus they were cheap! And in the early days those units rented on Airbnb were getting $150 US per night. So needless to say those apartments paid for themselves in a few short years.

Many of my friends back then were 20 something kids that figured out they too had to play "monopoly". I only mention this because I think that people that rent forever saying they can't afford it have to remember they have to have a place over their head for the rest of their freaking lives. My Argentine friends that bought their place many years ago, many then bought another one with the rental proceeds. Some another, another another. Now today they are living off their apartments in Buenos Aires during this devastating time with inflation.

These locals aren't evil or "bleeding others day". They are just trying to live a peaceful and normal life.

I take all this time to write this not to seem condescending to you because that is not my intent at all. My intent is for you to really take action and it's not too late. You have to be really smart in your "twenties" as it can have a drastic impact on the rest of your life. Good luck.

 

[Jetreee]

We can agree to disagree. Especially about the "those with assets want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury".

You shouldn't try to vilify people that have assets. Yeah, I get there is some generational wealth that just gets passed on from generation to generation. But there are a LOT of hardworking people that just want to live life. They want to be able to retire someday and have food on their plates and a roof over their head. They want to just support their families and raise their kids in a good environment and to provide things to their kids that they never had. To be able to pay for their kids college education since they never had that done for them. This isn't evil. It's just wanting to be a good parent and a good human being.

Not everyone that has assets is evil. When I first started coming to Argentina over 20+ years ago, I just figured out that owning properties in Argentina was better than the USA and I cashed out my 401K and sold my house to do this since you can't leverage here. Things turned out pretty much like I thought they would (even though everyone and their brother told me I'd lose all my money believing in Argentina and how much of a sh*t hole it was).

Now, more than 2 decades later, people tell me that I was "lucky". I laugh and say it wasn't luck. Sure, it was good timing but luck had nothing to do with it. It's about looking at reality and kind of looking down the road predicting how things will be.

When I started making really meaningful local friends I gave them my thesis why they should buy here too. These weren't rich kids from wealthy families. I mean some had families that had some money but none of them were wealthy.

Many of them had been saving for a few years. Many of them got loans from family members and scraped up enough to buy a place. When I started buying you could get a brand new luxury apartment in Palermo in "pozo" (breaking ground new construction phase) for $47,000 US. Jesus they were cheap! And in the early days those units rented on Airbnb were getting $150 US per night. So needless to say those apartments paid for themselves in a few short years.

Many of my friends back then were 20 something kids that figured out they too had to play "monopoly". I only mention this because I think that people that rent forever saying they can't afford it have to remember they have to have a place over their head for the rest of their freaking lives. My Argentine friends that bought their place many years ago, many then bought another one with the rental proceeds. Some another, another another. Now today they are living off their apartments in Buenos Aires during this devastating time with inflation.

These locals aren't evil or "bleeding others day". They are just trying to live a peaceful and normal life.

I take all this time to write this not to seem condescending to you because that is not my intent at all. My intent is for you to really take action and it's not too late. You have to be really smart in your "twenties" as it can have a drastic impact on the rest of your life. Good luck.

I didn’t find your reply at all condescending, I found it refreshingly honest and matter-of-fact.

In hindsight, I think there’s a certain irony of me redirecting blame to property owners, while I exercise geographical arbitrage for my own economic benefit.

Thank you for the good luck. In many ways I’ve been foolish in my twenties but the thing that I’m glad that I’ve done is see as much of the world as I can. One day I’ll be done with wanting to explore the world. Argentina will always hold a special place in my heart as the place I’ve spent the longest in besides my own country.

One day I’ll have to settle down and become a property owner.

I apologise for being too resentful to those with own property

 

[earlyretirement]

I didn’t find your reply at all condescending, I found it refreshingly honest and matter-of-fact.

In hindsight, I think there’s a certain irony of me redirecting blame to property owners, while I exercise geographical arbitrage for my own economic benefit.

Thank you for the good luck. In many ways I’ve been foolish in my twenties but the thing that I’m glad that I’ve done is see as much of the world as I can. One day I’ll be done with wanting to explore the world. Argentina will always hold a special place in my heart as the place I’ve spent the longest in besides my own country.

One day I’ll have to settle down and become a property owner.

I apologise for being too resentful to those with own property

Nothing to be sorry about at all. The world would be a really boring place if we all thought the same thing. I always believe if people can be civil and kind and calmly explain their point of view the world would be a great place. Now that I'm older, I always approach forums like these kind of as advice I wish I read when I was younger.

Just as you might be envious of some of us with assets. I'm envious of people like you that got to grow up with all this technology and innovation. It's easier than ever to make money being a digital nomad and playing arbitrage living in a place that's cheap and making Dollars, euros or another currency.

You don't have to figure things out right away but everyone thinks they will be young forever. Yes, late 20's is still relatively young but time flies by. So the best thing you can do is map out on paper some of your goals. For example, tell yourself by 35 you will own a property somewhere. It doesn't matter where. But go backwards and figure out how you will make that happen.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Setse]

one day you will realize there is nothing problematic about using airbnb. you have zero to feel guilty about

 

[earlyretirement]

one day you will realize there is nothing problematic about using airbnb. you have zero to feel guilty about

Amen brother. Even by the OP's posts he says he uses them all the time. I stay in hotels quite a bit but when I travel with my family I always stay in Airbnb's. They have made traveling so effortless. And by and large they aren't owned by super wealthy people. Just everyday locals so you're helping out the economy.

In most places I own properties and list Airbnb's that country's government charges the same taxes and fees that hotels charge. Argentina is one of the only places where they still don't charge any taxes. But that's one thing they should do right away no matter who becomes President. There are many simple fixes that can be implemented that will bring in a ton of tax revenue.

They can incentivize locals who register their DNI and are renting to maybe avoid paying these fees. That way they aren't feeling the brunt of that tax increase and the owner has an incentive to rent to a local vs. a tourist. There has to be creative solutions like this in an economy like Buenos Aires.

 

[FrankPintos]

Amen brother. Even by the OP's posts he says he uses them all the time. I stay in hotels quite a bit but when I travel with my family I always stay in Airbnb's. They have made traveling so effortless. And by and large they aren't owned by super wealthy people. Just everyday locals so you're helping out the economy.

In most places I own properties and list Airbnb's that country's government charges the same taxes and fees that hotels charge. Argentina is one of the only places where they still don't charge any taxes. But that's one thing they should do right away no matter who becomes President. There are many simple fixes that can be implemented that will bring in a ton of tax revenue.

They can incentivize locals who register their DNI and are renting to maybe avoid paying these fees. That way they aren't feeling the brunt of that tax increase and the owner has an incentive to rent to a local vs. a tourist. There has to be creative solutions like this in an economy like Buenos Aires.

Our experiences with Airbnb seem to be very different, I would say 90% of my dealings with Airbnb hosts over the past 5 years have been with property managers. And where they're not property managers they're investment properties (e.g. the very nice apartment we stayed in in Encarnacion in Paraguay owned by an Argentinian). The "sharing economy" is a feel-good myth fostered by Airbnb, if it was ever true, it certainly isn't now.

 

[earlyretirement]

Our experiences with Airbnb seem to be very different, I would say 90% of my dealings with Airbnb hosts over the past 5 years have been with property managers. And where they're not property managers they're investment properties (e.g. the very nice apartment we stayed in in Encarnacion in Paraguay owned by an Argentinian). The "sharing economy" is a feel-good myth fostered by Airbnb, if it was ever true, it certainly isn't now.

Sure, many owners have property managers. I mean, most people that own properties have full time jobs and this takes up a lot of time. I just manage mine myself but out of the tens of thousands of Airbnb's in Buenos Aires, how many do you think are owned by locals? Almost all of them but they aren't doing the check-in themselves. They have a manager or person that does this and they get paid a % of the rentals. Most of the foreigners sold their properties at the high. (Or at least most of them that I know did already). Now they are actually looking to get back in with prices low and things could go a bit lower until elections and after elections.

But it's individual owners that own these units. It's not like the USA where REIT's are buying up a lot of real estate. In South America it's mostly owned by locals. Your money is going into their pockets. One thing my local friends all have in common that didn't get forced into moving to Spain or Portugul is that they all own at least an apartment that they are earning US dollars. That totally saved them!

So don't feel bad about renting an Airbnb in Buenos Aires or anywhere else in much of Latin America. You're doing your part to help the economy.

And the others that didn't were ones that were lucky enough to buy an apartment so they don't have to worry about paying rent to an owner or getting socked with 100%+ raise in their rent. HOA Fees are cheaper than ever in US dollar terms for these owners.

 

[RealLit]

I feel that I may trigger some controversy but this is my take.

The perspective I tend to find is that, outside the 1%, there are two classes: those with assets, and those without assets. Those with assets want to sustain a certain quality of life off the passive income of those assets meanwhile those without assets want to pursue a reasonable quality of life without giving away too much of their income acquired from labour.

The key problem with airbnb is that it gives so much leverage to asset owners with no, or negative, consideration of those without assets.

The world will always be an amalgamation of those with assets and those without assets.

I’m a fairly keen airbnb user. I’m aware that my use of airbnb perpetuates the inequality of those without assets yet meanwhile I myself am priced out of assets within my own country for the same reason. It doesn’t make me comfortable nor happy to use the services that airbnb provides but at the same time it’s not an evil thing to exercise geographical arbitrage

Airbnb is a symptom, not a cause but it does indeed supercharge the symptoms. I don’t know what the solution is, but I don’t think you should ever demonise those who work to sustain their livelihood.

I maintain that the root of all problems are those with assets that want to use them to bleed others dry to sustain their luxury though the biggest problem are the 1% who pits subsets of the 99% against each other

A thoughtful and very articulate take on the issue.

It's easy to say that AirBNB is a symptom not a cause, but the root causes of all this cannot be remedied by anything short of revolution, and I do not advocate that. Ergo, treating symptoms is all we can do.

Therefore, I repeat - AirBNB is the devil.

 

[Jetreee]

A thoughtful and very articulate take on the issue.

It's easy to say that AirBNB is a symptom not a cause, but the root causes of all this cannot be remedied by anything short of revolution, and I do not advocate that. Ergo, treating symptoms is all we can do.

Therefore, I repeat - AirBNB is the devil.

I hoped to be thoughtful but I didn’t expect it to be articulate. It was a drunken vent, written from a corner of Andalusia, to distract from a slow-motion relationship breakdown

Despite that I use airbnb to facilitate my lifestyle, I recognise that it is extremely problematic. I hate that I add to the problem for those being continually priced out of their economy

 

[FrankPintos]

I hoped to be thoughtful but I didn’t expect it to be articulate. It was a drunken vent, written from a corner of Andalusia, to distract from a slow-motion relationship breakdown

Despite that I use airbnb to facilitate my lifestyle, I recognise that it is extremely problematic. I hate that I add to the problem for those being continually priced out of their economy

It was a very interesting drunken vent. It's too early to worry, though. You still have your most productive years in front of you, you can make many more mistakes, with relationships (they tend to be more expensive), and without. You can get on the property ladder in your 40s and 50s, if you have say 5 or more stable earning years.

Having made many mistakes, and having a lifestyle that took me from country to country, which is great for experiences, less good for a savings account, that's exactly what I did and am still doing. It's more difficult, not necessarily because of the mistakes, but because banks don't really want to talk to you about mortgages unless you have a steady job.

Quite possibly, for your property investments, you'll need to buy cheap in unstable places (you can buy building land close ot Buenos Aires for $30k, or beachfront apartments in Margarita for the same, or less) and wait for stability to come and for the market to improve. Property prices in most of western Europe are out of reach for someone saving from their job.

 

[earlyretirement]

It was a very interesting drunken vent. It's too early to worry, though. You still have your most productive years in front of you, you can make many more mistakes, with relationships (they tend to be more expensive), and without. You can get on the property ladder in your 40s and 50s, if you have say 5 or more stable earning years.

Having made many mistakes, and having a lifestyle that took me from country to country, which is great for experiences, less good for a savings account, that's exactly what I did and am still doing. It's more difficult, not necessarily because of the mistakes, but because banks don't really want to talk to you about mortgages unless you have a steady job.

Quite possibly, for your property investments, you'll need to buy cheap in unstable places (you can buy building land close ot Buenos Aires for $30k, or beachfront apartments in Margarita for the same, or less) and wait for stability to come and for the market to improve. Property prices in most of western Europe are out of reach for someone saving from their job.

You won't get a mortgage in most of Latin America anyway. It's all cash for the most part. But real estate is a fraction of the cost of the USA. I just put an offer on a place in Buenos Aires today in Palermo. $150,000 for a one bedroom penthouse in a great area. That same apartment here in California would be $500,000+.

Buenos Aires is on sale. It will probably get a bit cheaper in the next year but some of these developers are paying up to $500 US dollars a rent "rent" until the properties are done if you pay cash upfront. That's the deal I negotiated today with a well known developer. But some of these places from reputable developers are as little as $35,000 US down and payments for a year until they finish. If you can't scape that much together then I guess nothing else matters but you can always get a loan from a relative or something.