Spend Thrift
Well-known member
Yep. I looked at tons of places. Only cash. Hell, some places now won't even take US dollars fixed. All these new constructions have inflation based price in pesos! No thanks!
Explore, connect, thrive in
the expat community
Expat Life: Local Discoveries, Global Connections
Paying for real estate in Buenos Aires with Bitcoin or crypto?
- Thread starter Digital Nomad
- Start date
So true @Scottishgaucho! I posted this in another post but posting here too.
Forget buying an apartment in crypto. It isn't really accepted here for anything from the sounds of things. I saw this guy in Argentina now that is big into crypto. He is saying Bitcoin is illiquid here at any price. And even gold and silver with a 50% discount! That is insane. Locals only want cash.
It's crazy but it's not because locals want it that way: it is the result of past governments restrictions (cepo cambiario) on US$ purchasing and international wire transfers that led locals to just keep the US$ in their homes.
That being said, governments and banks anywhere in the world don't like crypto because they don't have control over it. This is not related to crime, drug trafficking, etc. they just want to control it and make you pay taxes:
I agree. It will take time for the system to change. Seems like the governments are hell bent on controlling crypto.
earlyretirement
Moderator
Whether you pay for real estate with cash, crypto or gold..... Prices are heading up!
BuySellBA
Administrator
Yes after falling for 5 years, real estate prices are heading up as @BuySellBA predicted last year that it would. We should see some tremendous appreciation over the next few years now.
Uncle Wong
Well-known member
This is probably why no one wants to transact in bitcoin. This isn't a stable currency. Too much volatility. Imagine one week bitcoin being 70,000+ and a few days later it hits 49,800. No thanks. I think I will just take the cash. If war breaks out, it sounds like crypto is going to go into the toilet. I would have thought when the stock market crashed, crypto would hold up but in a severe recession it seems like everything will sell off and flight of safety to dollar.
StatusNomadicus
Well-known member
like i said in another thread, G&D in BsAs absolutely will arrange crypto for purchase. they might try to get you to pay USD cash for part, then Bitcoin on the illegal/negra hidden part. i didn't get very far in the haggling
if you want to spend a lot of money: https://cryptorealestate.cc/
wtf is that supposed to mean? i've made arguments for the efficacy and technological validity of Blockchain, with BitcoinCash being the closest to the Whitepaper currently. what a moronic comment to say. in that 'logic' then we could conclude that since Starlink is popular in the USA/world, but wasn't popular in 2023, then Argentina will never use Starlink widely, right? maybe sit this one out until you've done some reading, pal. have you ever even make a transaction on the blockchain? or you just comment on topics out of your ass, of which you don't know anything about?
sources are here https://books.google.cl/books?id=IAz8EAAAQBAJ - you too lazy to read about it? then go away and let the adults talk about innovation
guys, i know this is old, but just do a Google search. i've posted many links. Mendoza notaries have done Crypto sales. CABA has several this year. the website above CryptoRealEstate.cc is literally about buying luxury properties directly with Crypto. not sure why this is still something that needs to be repeated so much. if you don't want to believe crypto works as digital cash, cool! but why post unqualified opinions when we know that it's easy enough to just research for 2 minutes? just email a Notary yourself and ask.
"not your keys, not your coins" - having some numbers on Binance's website doesn't mean you have any crypto 😛 cryptocurrency is self-custody, otherwise it's like having a Gold ETF - you don't actually hold any Gold, just numbers on a screen 🙂
the internet was mocked at first. Crypto and Argentina are still VERY early.
current interest has nothing to do with reality of fundamentals; people will want a way out of CBDC fiat fake money
in a recession, isn't every type of scam increased? just recently Payoneer was scammed with fake texts. should we stop using digital banking, too?
i tried to sell my house in the US for crypto. it's still so new, but sales are increasing every year. just gotta have patience. when everyone is doing something and it's considered "normal" then the good deals are already gone (Argentine real-estate included)
Bitcoin is a rejection of government control. that is literally all you need to know; everything else is just cryptographic math
but trusting a guaranteed inflation loss of spending power is silly when there are better options now; this isn't 1970...we have the internet.
cash is hard to carry. $100 USD bills are difficult to carry in any large amount. gold bars would be much easier to move. and governments can outlaw/limit/control cash more easily than turning off the entire internet (impossible)
lots of things didn't happen in 2023...we're in a new year, and when people lose faith in Fiat, they will realize how powerfull a decentralized, permissionless digital currency is more than just a Stock or PayPal:
neither is the Dollar that loses to inflation every day.
but this is a worst-case scenario; you could also buy some at 49k and then sell at 70k. there are VERY FEW people who are just buying all their savings' worth of Crypto at a high, then selling at a low. Dollar-Cost-Average and spend&replace. never invest more than you can afford to lose. and diversify!
if you're so sure, you can get paid 13% immediately to "Short" bitcoin for 90 days. https://bchbull.com/premiums.html
no one knows what anything will do. but e hedge so that no matter what, we're diversified and as mitigated as possible.
there is no safety of the Dollar, long-term. once the US Empire can't afford its wars and the Fed defaults for the first time, the world will shift to a different global reserve currency, or a mix of currencies. the Dollar will have an end at some point, just like Rome had an end.
this isn't a conspiracy theory. Ron Paul has talked about it for decades. it's on Nasdaq.com right there. i would never park any significant part of my savings in the Stock Market or Dollars, but most people wait until it's socially acceptable or commonplace to make changes.
Bitcoin sounds like definitely has potential over the long run but some of it sounds like luck in timing. Probably over the long run it will do ok but I know some people that timed it bad. Seems like the original purpose has changed on it. I see all kinds of financial companies now in it like Blackrock. I wonder what the original founder of bitcoin would think or say about what is going on now?
Betsy Ross
Well-known member
I don't think @StatusNomadicus has any ulterior motives. Just hasn't been in Argentina to understand how things fully work here. There are how things should work and how things work here. I am not saying blockchain wouldn't be easier but I know a lot of lawyers in CABA and all have told me so far no one is doing these kind of transactions. I don't have anything against them but there just seems like there is no interest from sellers. They all still want cash.
Vero
Well-known member
Exactly. We don't want to have to live like this but it is our sad reality. Even with Milei the cepo has not ended and there is no guarantee it will end any time soon. Also, if it ever ends, there is no guarantee what will happen once it does.
All the world the government wants to make you pay more taxes and all the world the government does shady things with the tax money and that's why no one wants to pay more taxes.
StatusNomadicus
Well-known member
can't lose Dollars if you don't sell 🙂
indeed, BTC is broken
lawyers don't do escrituras, Notaries/escribanos do. and several sales happened in CABA and a handful in Mendoza.
i know you're a skeptic, but you really really need to think about that video i shared where Bill Gates was mocked on national TV for saying email and the internet would be revolutionary. Cryptocurrency and Blockchain are here to stay, and you'll be using them soon!
1. "Real estate transactions with Bitcoins - Payments with cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin may multiply to buy or sell real estate. So much so that the College of Notaries of Buenos Aires has a commission dedicated to the subject." https://www.derechoenzapatillas.com/2021/transacciones-inmobiliarias-con-bitcoins/
2. https://www.zillow.com/learn/can-you-buy-a-house-with-bitcoins/
3. https://cryptorealestate.cc/how-to-buy-real-estate-with-bitcoin-crypto/
4. https://www.baancoin.com/property-for-sale/argentina
5. https://cryptoemporium.com/property/south-america/argentina/
6. https://gatewaytosouthamerica-newsb...ells-properties-that-can-be-paid-with-crypto/
7. https://www.infobae.com/economia/20...liarias-se-lanzan-a-operar-con-criptomonedas/
8. https://www.ambito.com/opiniones/cr...nmobiliario-como-comprar-un-inmueble-n5428050
9. https://es.cointelegraph.com/news/a...entives-for-declaring-cryptocurrency-holdings
@Betsy Ross i guess once i buy a house/apartment with Bitcoin, would you change your mind? just because "most" people do something, doesn't mean it's logical or advisable. a ton of Argies smoke, eat processed sugar/carbs, drink Coke and Fernet, sleep like sh*t, drink caffeine 24/7 (mate), don't lift weights or run, and believe in various superstitions like Catholicism that make no sense. why would i follow all these bad ideas? and why would you think that those people following the 'herd' are a good basis of what is possible for humans? Blockchain is the next evolution of the Internet 🙂
Uncle Wong
Well-known member
I am not sure if people are saying that crypto isn't a good idea when buying vs. having to carry around cash. Only that so far it seems like almost everyone in Argentina would rather get cash. That will be great if you can complete a transaction in crypto @StatusNomadicus!
What if you are forced to sell if you need the cash? I don't know enough about crypto but I do know a few friends that bought into cryptos including Bitcoin at the wrong time and needed liquidity and had to sell and sold at a loss. You are right @StatusNomadicus you aren't forced to sell but sometimes life happens and emergencies happen.
I don't think anyone is trying to argue that crypto won't have a future. Only that transactions must be very very low. I read your other post that you are buying a property. Were you successful in paying crypto for it? You were pushing some alternative of Bitcoin. Using your own crypto as an example did the seller accept your crypto? Do you have to convert yours into bitcoin first? Or will they accept your shitcoin?
Uncle Wong
Well-known member
I would love to read about your experience paying for a property with crypto.
Betsy Ross
Well-known member
Please read my post a few above this. I am not mocking you. I did not even say blockchain doesn't have a future or wouldn't be easier. Read my post again. I said that almost everyone here still wants to use cash. Not sure where the confusion is coming from but that is just a fact. Yes I know the difference between lawyers and escribanos but in speaking to several lawyer friends that interact with escribanos and they told me they aren't seeing any interest at all from sellers accepting crypto. I am not trying to argue with you on the merits of the technology. I am only telling you what I am hearing.
Things are getting easier in Argentina with wires. Once the currency controls are lifted, it will get even easier just to make a wire to a seller into their account so cash won't be necessary. Before no one trusted the government to deposit US dollars into a local bank. But that is changing so this will drastically make it easier. Once that happens, it will just be a simple bank transfer from buyer to seller like anywhere else in the world.
I am not trying to argue on what will be the next evolution. Just trying to discuss what most sellers want to receive and that is still just USD not crypto.
Digital Nomad
Well-known member
This has been my experience when looking at properties last year and also this year. @StatusNomadicus what Betsy is saying is correct. I'm glad that you're able to see some properties and transactions where crypto might be allowed but everyone I speak to is saying the same thing as Betsy that cash is king.
This is what my girlfriend's family says. No local likes living like this. But once the cepo is changed it will be easy to send money here. But her family also told me that things could change drastically again. They say change is constant here so just because people trust the banks today doesn't mean they will tomorrow. So everything is always changing here from what it sounds like.
Vince
Well-known member
@StatusNomadicus where you able to find a cueva that accepts BCH? I asked around here in BA and no cuevas seem to deal in BCH. Most seem to prefer USDT only or Bitcoin.
Is your seller accepting BCH or do you have to convert it first to another crypto?
Blockchain
Well-known member
Yeah Argentina seems to prefer using stablecoins. I thought Argentina would be more ahead of the curve with crypto but just don't find that to be the case. Almost everywhere I went the locals still preferred paying for meals with cash. Just about every time I went to a nice place the tourists were paying with credit cards but the locals were all paying with stacks of 1000k notes.
I don't think, this time, that people will choose socialism again. Maybe future governments won't be libertarian, but I don't see them implementing a 'cepo' again.
Similar threads
Engage explore adapt in your expat community.
