Newcomer Pros and cons of getting married/having kids in Argentina vs USA?

[drewst]

My Argentine girlfriend and I are contemplating marriage and are curious about the factors to consider when choosing the location. We're tentatively considering living in Argentina for a few years to save up, as I can work remotely. Afterward, we might move to the United States. Could getting married in Argentina pose visa or green card issues later on? And what about having children? I assume it might be better to have them in the US to ensure they become US citizens, right? Just trying to gather information before making any decisions here. Thanks!

 

[wonka]

I'm not sure why moving to the United States for retirement would be a good idea. I'm considering doing the opposite. Argentina is much more affordable to live on U.S. Social Security.

Honestly, I don't see many practical benefits in moving to the United States. Your current situation sounds perfect.

Your children will be U.S. citizens regardless of where they are born. I also understand that they will be Argentine even if born outside of Argentina.

If that's the case, it might be better to choose a third country to give birth, for example, Ireland... that way, as Irish citizens, they could live anywhere in the EU and also in the UK. With three passports, they could travel visa-free to almost every developed country, with some exceptions, for example, Australia requires visas for everyone.
It doesn't matter which country you get married in; what matters is in which country the children are born.

 

[earlyretirement]

I'm not sure why moving to the United States for retirement would be a good idea. I'm considering doing the opposite. Argentina is much more affordable to live on U.S. Social Security.

Honestly, I don't see many practical benefits in moving to the United States. Your current situation sounds perfect.

Your children will be U.S. citizens regardless of where they are born. I also understand that they will be Argentine even if born outside of Argentina.

If that's the case, it might be better to choose a third country to give birth, for example, Ireland... that way, as Irish citizens, they could live anywhere in the EU and also in the UK. With three passports, they could travel visa-free to almost every developed country, with some exceptions, for example, Australia requires visas for everyone.
It doesn't matter which country you get married in; what matters is in which country the children are born.

BRAVO! This is spot on target. The USA is NOT the country to retire in. Even/especially as a multi-millionare I can't think of a worst country to retire to. I can afford to live in the USA but life is much better in retirement in other countries vs. the USA. High cost of living, high tax base, piss poor food quality compared to other countries. Healthcare is HORRIBLE and expensive and the doctors just don't care. Not sure why anyone would want to retire in the USA. I'm doing the opposte as charlesfradley suggested.

The only benefit to the USA is raising kids here. I find the quality of life for raising kids is much much better than Argentina. I purposely moved back to the USA when my oldest was 3 years old. I find schools for the most part disgusting in Buenos Aires compared to the USA. We had some friends that had their kids molested in Buenos Aires top tier schools. I just find the environment mostly toxic in Argentina compared to the USA for raising kids. Kids see their parents and others with a lazy attitude and stab one another in the back type of culture. Raising them in the USA was the best thing I could have done and don't regret it for a minute. But once they are older we plan to move back to Buenos Aires.

I'm a USA citizen and I got married in Argentina. I had 2 kids that were born in Buenos Aires. My wife easily got USA permanent residency just by marrying me and then got her citizenship after 5 years of being married. Was very easy. My kids automatically got USA citizenship right when they were born and have the best of both worlds having USA passport and Argentina Passport. I applied for their social security numbers at the USA Embassy in Buenos Aires and it arrived within 2 weeks of applying. I wouldn't have it any other way.

wonka is spot on target and 100% correct. The median Social Security check per month in the USA is $1,730. You can't do jack with that in the USA. But in Argentina if you have a paid off place, you can live like a King/Queen.

 

[drewst]

BRAVO! This is spot on target. The USA is NOT the country to retire in. Even/especially as a multi-millionare I can't think of a worst country to retire to. I can afford to live in the USA but life is much better in retirement in other countries vs. the USA. High cost of living, high tax base, piss poor food quality compared to other countries. Healthcare is HORRIBLE and expensive and the doctors just don't care. Not sure why anyone would want to retire in the USA. I'm doing the opposte as charlesfradley suggested.

The only benefit to the USA is raising kids here. I find the quality of life for raising kids is much much better than Argentina. I purposely moved back to the USA when my oldest was 3 years old. I find schools for the most part disgusting in Buenos Aires compared to the USA. We had some friends that had their kids molested in Buenos Aires top tier schools. I just find the environment mostly toxic in Argentina compared to the USA for raising kids. Kids see their parents and others with a lazy attitude and stab one another in the back type of culture. Raising them in the USA was the best thing I could have done and don't regret it for a minute. But once they are older we plan to move back to Buenos Aires.

I'm a USA citizen and I got married in Argentina. I had 2 kids that were born in Buenos Aires. My wife easily got USA permanent residency just by marrying me and then got her citizenship after 5 years of being married. Was very easy. My kids automatically got USA citizenship right when they were born and have the best of both worlds having USA passport and Argentina Passport. I applied for their social security numbers at the USA Embassy in Buenos Aires and it arrived within 2 weeks of applying. I wouldn't have it any other way.

wonka is spot on target and 100% correct. The median Social Security check per month in the USA is $1,730. You can't do jack with that in the USA. But in Argentina if you have a paid off place, you can live like a King/Queen.

To clarify, I'm 38 years old and not considering retirement anytime soon. I'm behind on saving for retirement and contributing to Social Security, and I hope to catch up while living in Arkansas and earning in dollars for a while. Moving to the U.S. in a few years would be for the exact reason you mentioned: to raise kids there. We plan to start having kids soon (she's 34), but it seems there's no immediate need to move back to the U.S. for citizenship reasons as we feared. So perhaps we'll stay in Argentina, saving up before the kids reach school age.

 

[earlyretirement]

To clarify, I'm 38 years old and not considering retirement anytime soon. I'm behind on saving for retirement and contributing to Social Security, and I hope to catch up while living in Arkansas and earning in dollars for a while. Moving to the U.S. in a few years would be for the exact reason you mentioned: to raise kids there. We plan to start having kids soon (she's 34), but it seems there's no immediate need to move back to the U.S. for citizenship reasons as we feared. So perhaps we'll stay in Argentina, saving up before the kids reach school age.

If you're already 38 and you don't have much savings or haven't been paying much into SS you're kind of screwed unless you earn a sh*t ton in the next several years. The time to do that stuff is when you're young. 38 isn't exactly too young. I don't mean to be Debbie Downer on you. I just always like to give honest and practical advice.

Also, if you're planning on earning lots of dollars, I'm not sure I'd recommend living in Argentina to do that. Unless you can make a lot of $$$$ being a digital nomad or something. If so, then sure that's a good place to earn dollars and spend pesos. I've found Argentina to be one of the MOST DIFFICULT places to earn a lot of money.

If you're girlfriend is 34 realistically she really has to start soon. It doesn't always happen right away. A friend is dating a 36 year old and he is 54 and the funny thing was when the doctor told the girl SHE was a "geriatric pregnancy" and "high risk". The girl was shocked as she thought she was young. But the doctor clued her in. Your girlfriend already falls into that category so you better hurry up. This girlfriend of my best friend thought the risk would be on my friend as he was older but the doctor told her he already had 3 successful kids (previous marriage). It would be HER that is the issue.

Your goal should be earning as much as you can if you plan on having kids. And realistically if you don't have much/any savings you couldn't move back to the USA anyway as things are so expensive here now.

How much do you earn per year in Argentina? I do a lot of investment analysis for clients and also friends and some people are shocked when I tell them that they really can NOT afford to have kids. It's an eye opener for them. Kids are freaking expensive. Especially raising them in the USA. Lots of people think they are really young still in their late 30's but they really aren't that young.

 

[drewst]

If you're already 38 and you don't have much savings or haven't been paying much into SS you're kind of screwed unless you earn a sh*t ton in the next several years. The time to do that stuff is when you're young. 38 isn't exactly too young. I don't mean to be Debbie Downer on you. I just always like to give honest and practical advice.

Also, if you're planning on earning lots of dollars, I'm not sure I'd recommend living in Argentina to do that. Unless you can make a lot of $$$$ being a digital nomad or something. If so, then sure that's a good place to earn dollars and spend pesos. I've found Argentina to be one of the MOST DIFFICULT places to earn a lot of money.

If you're girlfriend is 34 realistically she really has to start soon. It doesn't always happen right away. A friend is dating a 36 year old and he is 54 and the funny thing was when the doctor told the girl SHE was a "geriatric pregnancy" and "high risk". The girl was shocked as she thought she was young. But the doctor clued her in. Your girlfriend already falls into that category so you better hurry up. This girlfriend of my best friend thought the risk would be on my friend as he was older but the doctor told her he already had 3 successful kids (previous marriage). It would be HER that is the issue.

Your goal should be earning as much as you can if you plan on having kids. And realistically if you don't have much/any savings you couldn't move back to the USA anyway as things are so expensive here now.

How much do you earn per year in Argentina? I do a lot of investment analysis for clients and also friends and some people are shocked when I tell them that they really can NOT afford to have kids. It's an eye opener for them. Kids are freaking expensive. Especially raising them in the USA. Lots of people think they are really young still in their late 30's but they really aren't that young.

I value your candidness! I might have wasted some time, but I believe I can make a decent recovery. Soon, I expect to earn a six-figure income (in dollars) while living frugally with pesos. Your reminder about the biological clock is appreciated. Both of us had almost given up on the idea of having a family until we found each other, and now those dreams are rekindled somewhat late in the game. We're aware that time is limited, so we're determined to use it wisely, avoiding mistakes that could derail our late-stage comeback.

 

[earlyretirement]

I value your candidness! I might have wasted some time, but I believe I can make a decent recovery. Soon, I expect to earn a six-figure income (in dollars) while living frugally with pesos. Your reminder about the biological clock is appreciated. Both of us had almost given up on the idea of having a family until we found each other, and now those dreams are rekindled somewhat late in the game. We're aware that time is limited, so we're determined to use it wisely, avoiding mistakes that could derail our late-stage comeback.

No problem at all. I do this all the time with my friends and they always thank me. That's awesome that you can recover! If you're making 6 figure income for the next many decades until you retire, you'll have time. Just remember that you have to be paying into SSA for 30+ years. Save, save, save. Invest into income generating assets. Don't waste money.

That's amazing that you found your one true love. She still has time so just plan and make a good game plan. Argentina is a great place to live if you can earn US dollars. If you're earning 6 figure income and spending pesos you'll be in good shape. But make sure you're paying into SSA.

 

[Rio99]

If you're already 38 and you don't have much savings or haven't been paying much into SS you're kind of screwed unless you earn a sh*t ton in the next several years. The time to do that stuff is when you're young. 38 isn't exactly too young. I don't mean to be Debbie Downer on you. I just always like to give honest and practical advice.

Also, if you're planning on earning lots of dollars, I'm not sure I'd recommend living in Argentina to do that. Unless you can make a lot of $$$$ being a digital nomad or something. If so, then sure that's a good place to earn dollars and spend pesos. I've found Argentina to be one of the MOST DIFFICULT places to earn a lot of money.

If you're girlfriend is 34 realistically she really has to start soon. It doesn't always happen right away. A friend is dating a 36 year old and he is 54 and the funny thing was when the doctor told the girl SHE was a "geriatric pregnancy" and "high risk". The girl was shocked as she thought she was young. But the doctor clued her in. Your girlfriend already falls into that category so you better hurry up. This girlfriend of my best friend thought the risk would be on my friend as he was older but the doctor told her he already had 3 successful kids (previous marriage). It would be HER that is the issue.

Your goal should be earning as much as you can if you plan on having kids. And realistically if you don't have much/any savings you couldn't move back to the USA anyway as things are so expensive here now.

How much do you earn per year in Argentina? I do a lot of investment analysis for clients and also friends and some people are shocked when I tell them that they really can NOT afford to have kids. It's an eye opener for them. Kids are freaking expensive. Especially raising them in the USA. Lots of people think they are really young still in their late 30's but they really aren't that young.

Certainly, for financial guidance... If you're employed by a U.S. company, request them to deduct Social Security taxes from your paycheck if they're not already doing so. To optimize your U.S. Social Security benefits, it's essential to work on U.S. payrolls and contribute to Social Security for at least 35 years. In case your U.S. employer refuses, consider filing your U.S. taxes as self-employed and covering the self-employment taxes, even though it's pricier (double) compared to employee payroll taxes. This strategy allows you to retire at 62, or if you delay retirement until 70, your retirement benefits will increase by 8% for each year beyond 62 that you defer.

 

[earlyretirement]

Certainly, for financial guidance... If you're employed by a U.S. company, request them to deduct Social Security taxes from your paycheck if they're not already doing so. To optimize your U.S. Social Security benefits, it's essential to work on U.S. payrolls and contribute to Social Security for at least 35 years. In case your U.S. employer refuses, consider filing your U.S. taxes as self-employed and covering the self-employment taxes, even though it's pricier (double) compared to employee payroll taxes. This strategy allows you to retire at 62, or if you delay retirement until 70, your retirement benefits will increase by 8% for each year beyond 62 that you defer.

Just saw this. Yep, I just commented about paying into SSA for 35 years. People sometimes don't know this and automatically think they will quality for Medicare and SSA benefits without barely paying in. And lots of ex-pats aren't paying the self-employment taxes.

 

[drewst]

Certainly, for financial guidance... If you're employed by a U.S. company, request them to deduct Social Security taxes from your paycheck if they're not already doing so. To optimize your U.S. Social Security benefits, it's essential to work on U.S. payrolls and contribute to Social Security for at least 35 years. In case your U.S. employer refuses, consider filing your U.S. taxes as self-employed and covering the self-employment taxes, even though it's pricier (double) compared to employee payroll taxes. This strategy allows you to retire at 62, or if you delay retirement until 70, your retirement benefits will increase by 8% for each year beyond 62 that you defer.

I'm soon obtaining my therapist license in the U.S. and plan to work remotely, aiming to establish a private practice. Consequently, I'll eventually need to cover self-employment taxes, unfortunately.

 

[earlyretirement]

I'm soon obtaining my therapist license in the U.S. and plan to work remotely, aiming to establish a private practice. Consequently, I'll eventually need to cover self-employment taxes, unfortunately.

That's awesome! Actually that's a good field. I have a lot of therapist friends in the USA and they are all very very busy. After COVID, most of them don't even go into an office anymore. As you mentioned, they are all making multiple 6 figures a year.

However, be careful In this digital age. I just posted this - https://baexpats.org/threads/amazing-therapist-for-ex-pats-or-locals-super-affordable.46228/

There are amazing therapists that are only charging $25 US per hour. And you're going to be competing against this new world of technology where people will refuse to pay $250+ hour. Most of my friends in California were paying as much as $300 US per hour with their USA therapists but I have referred them to mine and now they pay $25 for 45 minutes and they all have told me she is 10X better than the one they had in the USA. There is no correlation with how good someone is vs. how much they are paying. I actually hope there comes a day when healthcare and therapy is a commodity where people utilize technology and no one can charge those obscene prices like they are charging in the USA. All my local Porteño friends are paying around $25/hour too.

It's my belief that people will gear more towards people like this above. These people just don't know how to market but there are already industries that are sprouting up disrupting industries.

 

[Rio99]

That's awesome! Actually that's a good field. I have a lot of therapist friends in the USA and they are all very very busy. After COVID, most of them don't even go into an office anymore. As you mentioned, they are all making multiple 6 figures a year.

However, be careful In this digital age. I just posted this - https://baexpats.org/threads/amazing-therapist-for-ex-pats-or-locals-super-affordable.46228/

There are amazing therapists that are only charging $25 US per hour. And you're going to be competing against this new world of technology where people will refuse to pay $250+ hour. Most of my friends in California were paying as much as $300 US per hour with their USA therapists but I have referred them to mine and now they pay $25 for 45 minutes and they all have told me she is 10X better than the one they had in the USA. There is no correlation with how good someone is vs. how much they are paying. I actually hope there comes a day when healthcare and therapy is a commodity where people utilize technology and no one can charge those obscene prices like they are charging in the USA. All my local Porteño friends are paying around $25/hour too.

It's my belief that people will gear more towards people like this above. These people just don't know how to market but there are already industries that are sprouting up disrupting industries.

That's a wonderful endorsement! I'm delighted that you've found someone who suits your needs so well. It's indeed true that the effectiveness of a therapist doesn't necessarily correlate with their fees. Interestingly, the best therapist I've encountered wasn't even formally trained in therapy. Looking ahead, it seems that my chosen profession will remain in high demand for the foreseeable future, and people are willing to pay a premium for it. I must admit, there's a sense of guilt about this, which is one reason I've decided to pursue my license now that I'm motivated to start a family. It would be imprudent to turn away those willing to pay higher fees while I'm working to recover from lost time. Nevertheless, I plan to engage in a significant amount of pro bono work and even obtain a license to practice in Argentina (charging reasonable rates for locals, of course) to ensure that those in greatest need also have access to assistance.

 

[andy]

Just saw this. Yep, I just commented about paying into SSA for 35 years. People sometimes don't know this and automatically think they will quality for Medicare and SSA benefits without barely paying in. And lots of ex-pats aren't paying the self-employment taxes.

I understand your perspective, and you raise valid points about the potential benefits of investing instead of contributing to Social Security. If the individual making $100k per year invests $12k annually with an 8% annual return over 30 years, they could accumulate $1,538,365 USD. These figures, of course, are static, and the investable percentage may increase with inflation over time.
It's crucial to consider individual circumstances and financial goals when making decisions about Social Security contributions. Some may prioritize the potential for higher returns through private investments, as you've outlined. However, it's also important to acknowledge that Social Security provides a guaranteed income stream in retirement, and for some individuals, this reliability can be a valuable aspect of their overall financial plan.
Regarding Medicare, you rightly point out that the current qualification criteria, based on 40 quarters of minimum wage part-time work, offer a relatively accessible path to comprehensive healthcare coverage. This stands in contrast to the uncapped Medicare tax paid by those with higher incomes throughout their working lives. Each person's situation is unique, and it's advisable to carefully evaluate the pros and cons based on their specific financial circumstances and goals.

 

[earlyretirement]

That's a wonderful endorsement! I'm delighted that you've found someone who suits your needs so well. It's indeed true that the effectiveness of a therapist doesn't necessarily correlate with their fees. Interestingly, the best therapist I've encountered wasn't even formally trained in therapy. Looking ahead, it seems that my chosen profession will remain in high demand for the foreseeable future, and people are willing to pay a premium for it. I must admit, there's a sense of guilt about this, which is one reason I've decided to pursue my license now that I'm motivated to start a family. It would be imprudent to turn away those willing to pay higher fees while I'm working to recover from lost time. Nevertheless, I plan to engage in a significant amount of pro bono work and even obtain a license to practice in Argentina (charging reasonable rates for locals, of course) to ensure that those in greatest need also have access to assistance.

Thanks! Yes, she is amazing. NO, do NOT feel guilty about charging fair market rates for your work. I always say you should charge as much as you can. If you're good at what you do, people should be willing to pay for it.

That's amazing that you will do pro-bono work. I think you will love your profession. There is a certain satisfaction with helping people no matter the profession. I've had thousands of clients over the past 25 years. I mostly work with investments and I'm always satisfied helping people. It's part of the reason I have spent so much of my life on forum like this one and many others. I get a satisfaction with sharing information. To me, that's what life is about.

Pay it forward and do some pro-bono work. You sound like you have an amazing head on your shoulders and I wish you the best with your new bride, having a baby and your career.

I actually think for a male it's better to wait to have kids until you're in your mid-late 30's. You live life and have fun. I wouldn't do it any other way. And I can tell you that once you have a child, it's the single biggest satisfaction I have in my life. I have 3 kids and pretty much everything I do has been for them since they were born.

It will be the single most important thing you do in your life. And you know what? You will absolutely LOVE it.

 

[earlyretirement]

I understand your perspective, and you raise valid points about the potential benefits of investing instead of contributing to Social Security. If the individual making $100k per year invests $12k annually with an 8% annual return over 30 years, they could accumulate $1,538,365 USD. These figures, of course, are static, and the investable percentage may increase with inflation over time.
It's crucial to consider individual circumstances and financial goals when making decisions about Social Security contributions. Some may prioritize the potential for higher returns through private investments, as you've outlined. However, it's also important to acknowledge that Social Security provides a guaranteed income stream in retirement, and for some individuals, this reliability can be a valuable aspect of their overall financial plan.
Regarding Medicare, you rightly point out that the current qualification criteria, based on 40 quarters of minimum wage part-time work, offer a relatively accessible path to comprehensive healthcare coverage. This stands in contrast to the uncapped Medicare tax paid by those with higher incomes throughout their working lives. Each person's situation is unique, and it's advisable to carefully evaluate the pros and cons based on their specific financial circumstances and goals.

Oh no, I'm not advocating anyone pay 1 cent more than they need to.