Verification of Origin of Funds for real estate purchase in Buenos Aires?

[Yale]

Does anyone have recent first hand experience if escribania requires origin of funds when buying real estate in Buenos Aires? I am in the process of buying a house in CABA and the escribania office is asking me to provide justification on the origin of funds. Not only is she asking me for bank statements but she is asking for tax returns and everything has to get an official translation and get apostilled.

Is this a normal request? I don't understand why I would need to provide tax returns. I have my money legal in American banks and the funds are legal and legitimate. I am not paying in cash. I don't understand how I can provide proof because I have not worked in over a decade. My funds are savings from many years ago. Do they really expect me to prove with tax statements? I don't understand what a tax return will show as I don't have income now and living off interest from investments. This cash has been sitting in my account for a decade.

This seems crazy to me. I thought only government documents could get an apostille seal? Has anyone gone through this process and can verify if his is correct?

 

[Johnny]

Does anyone have recent first hand experience if escribania requires origin of funds when buying real estate in Buenos Aires? I am in the process of buying a house in CABA and the escribania office is asking me to provide justification on the origin of funds. Not only is she asking me for bank statements but she is asking for tax returns and everything has to get an official translation and get apostilled.

Is this a normal request? I don't understand why I would need to provide tax returns. I have my money legal in American banks and the funds are legal and legitimate. I am not paying in cash. I don't understand how I can provide proof because I have not worked in over a decade. My funds are savings from many years ago. Do they really expect me to prove with tax statements? I don't understand what a tax return will show as I don't have income now and living off interest from investments. This cash has been sitting in my account for a decade.

This seems crazy to me. I thought only government documents could get an apostille seal? Has anyone gone through this process and can verify if his is correct?

From what I was told when I bought my property, there are a lot of anti-money laundering laws in Argentina. I was lucky and did not have to pay cash at closing. I went through a financial company and I did have to provide some information but not tax returns. I had to send copies of my bank account where I held the funds. I am told they also do a background check to make sure my name isn't on any watch lists for terrorism or money laundering.

You are wrong @Yale about only government documents getting an Apostille seal. My wife and I had to get several items with Apostille seal on it. Any document can get it. We hired @BuySellBA to handle the closing for us. We had to send in copies of our passports, and they also got our tax ID numbers for us. I think it is called Cdi #. And we also got a Power of attorney document. All of them had to have an Apostille on it. I live in California and we sent in to the Secretary of State's office.

 

[Betsy Ross]

@Yale you can probably get an accountant to send some letter or statement verifying that the funds are legitimate. I bought a long time ago in BA but back then they had a similar system. I had to open up a local account with some financial broker. I had to send copies of tax returns but I didn't have to get an Apostille seal on it. The Escribano was ok with just getting original bank statements where the funds were coming from and also a PDF copy of my tax return.

I don't know if they still require the tax return requirement as I had friends that bought and they did not have to. But they had to send bank statements and they might have had to get a letter from an accountant. Also, at the closing, I had to sign a letter saying the funds were legal and they also took my fingerprint.

The main concern is that the funds are legitimate. I am told now it might be more strict as Argentina is trying to stay off the grey list for international standards.

 

[Wally]

Does anyone have recent first hand experience if escribania requires origin of funds when buying real estate in Buenos Aires? I am in the process of buying a house in CABA and the escribania office is asking me to provide justification on the origin of funds. Not only is she asking me for bank statements but she is asking for tax returns and everything has to get an official translation and get apostilled.

Is this a normal request? I don't understand why I would need to provide tax returns. I have my money legal in American banks and the funds are legal and legitimate. I am not paying in cash. I don't understand how I can provide proof because I have not worked in over a decade. My funds are savings from many years ago. Do they really expect me to prove with tax statements? I don't understand what a tax return will show as I don't have income now and living off interest from investments. This cash has been sitting in my account for a decade.

This seems crazy to me. I thought only government documents could get an apostille seal? Has anyone gone through this process and can verify if his is correct?

This probably is dependent on the lawyer. How did you find this notary? You should really try to get a referral of someone that knows a good escribano so there is some trust. It sounds like the lawyer is suspicious of your origin of funds. Before lawyers could use their judgement and usually a letter from an accountant was enough. I don't remember having to provide any tax returns but I could be wrong.

It does need to be notarized and then the Apostille has to be affixed because documents aren't legal in Argentina without an Apostille seal on it. That was a royal pain because I wasn't in the USA at the time but I remember having my accountant send in a letter. You can mail it to any Secretary of State office in any state and they can mail it back but they will not mail it to Argentina. I had them send it to my accountant and then he DHL'd it to Buenos Aires. It took a few weeks.

 

[Vince]

This probably is dependent on the lawyer. How did you find this notary? You should really try to get a referral of someone that knows a good escribano so there is some trust. It sounds like the lawyer is suspicious of your origin of funds. Before lawyers could use their judgement and usually a letter from an accountant was enough. I don't remember having to provide any tax returns but I could be wrong.

It does need to be notarized and then the Apostille has to be affixed because documents aren't legal in Argentina without an Apostille seal on it. That was a royal pain because I wasn't in the USA at the time but I remember having my accountant send in a letter. You can mail it to any Secretary of State office in any state and they can mail it back but they will not mail it to Argentina. I had them send it to my accountant and then he DHL'd it to Buenos Aires. It took a few weeks.

Wally is right. If the lawyer knows you they might not require all of this. The lawyer will have problems if later it turns out that they did not check on origin of funds. But when I bought my property, we used the Escribano that my wife's family always works with and NO paperwork at all was required.

Some lawyers are pickier than others.

 

[earlyretirement]

@Yale,

Everyone has good comments that are accurate. It is not uncommon for Escribanos to ask for some justification on the origin of funds. For many bank statement copies will be enough. Others, will require an accountant statement. And definitely if you are going through a bond broker and you have to arrange payment in cash to be paid in Buenos Aires they might typically require tax returns or some origin of funds. They also go through a rigorous check on your name for any arrests that have to do with money laundering, drugs, etc.

And even if you were arrested and later found non-guilty they can still not allow you to wire funds in. I once had a client that got arrested for some crazy politically motivated donation where they donated money to a political party and the other person had them arrested. They were found not guilty but they still were not able to open up an account to wire in funds. Most people won't have to worry about this but it just goes to show you that Argentina doesn't mess around sometimes.

Many Escribanos won't ask for any of this and they just want to make the funds. But it's getting more difficult to find Escribanos that won't ask for some verification and paperwork. Several years ago I had some Russian businessmen come to my office and wanted to hire me to buy real estate in Buenos Aires. They wanted to invest tens of millions of dollars. They didn't want to put the real estate in their own name and wanted to set up a company and wanted me to set up the company. I didn't feel comfortable with this. I turned down a lot of money to work with them and later it turns out these Russians were laundering money. I was told that they got arrested and the Escribano that allowed them to purchase without asking for verification of funds also got their license revoked.

There are some alternative ways you can structure the purchase so that you don't have to provide any paperwork. It's 100% legal to wire directly to the sellers account outside of Argentina. So you may want to see if the seller has an account outside of Argentina and you can arrange to wire the funds directly to them.

I imagine you are running into issues because you are trying to get this cash into Argentina which has a lot of controls.

 

[Blockchain]

Wild that you would have to show anything to buy property. I would have thought as long as you had the money that is all that matters. I thought everything was cash in Argentina. But I guess it makes sense people would be worried about money laundering. I was wondering about that.

 

[Uncle Wong]

Wild that you would have to show anything to buy property. I would have thought as long as you had the money that is all that matters. I thought everything was cash in Argentina. But I guess it makes sense people would be worried about money laundering. I was wondering about that.

I read about a Russian that was in Buenos Aires that was laundering money for North Korea. Interesting case but with so much cash and cuevas in BA there is probably a lot of money laundering there.

Russian arrested in Argentina for laundering money for hackers

Argentinian police arrested a Russian national this week suspected of accepting millions of dollars in stolen cryptocurrency from child sexual abusers, financiers of terrorism and North Korean hackers.

therecord.media

Russian laundering millions for Lazarus hackers arrested in Argentina

The federal police in Argentina (PFA) have arrested a 29-year-old Russian national in Buenos Aires, who is facing money laundering charges related to cryptocurrency proceeds of the notorious North Korean hackers' Lazarus Group.'

www.bleepingcomputer.com

 

[import export]

I read about a Russian that was in Buenos Aires that was laundering money for North Korea. Interesting case but with so much cash and cuevas in BA there is probably a lot of money laundering there.

Russian arrested in Argentina for laundering money for hackers

Argentinian police arrested a Russian national this week suspected of accepting millions of dollars in stolen cryptocurrency from child sexual abusers, financiers of terrorism and North Korean hackers.

therecord.media

Russian laundering millions for Lazarus hackers arrested in Argentina

The federal police in Argentina (PFA) have arrested a 29-year-old Russian national in Buenos Aires, who is facing money laundering charges related to cryptocurrency proceeds of the notorious North Korean hackers' Lazarus Group.'

www.bleepingcomputer.com

Argentina is trying to clean up its act. There are many cuevas that won't ask questions but real estate purchases all have to go through a Notary and they can lose their license if funds end up being illegal and they don't do some kind of due diligence.

Even Pablo Escobar's wife has gotten caught laundering money through real estate purchases in BA.

Pablo Escobar's widow and son have been charged with money laundering in Argentina

Escobar's widow and son and a former Colombian soccer player have been accused of participation in a money-laundering scheme involving a Colombian drug trafficker.

www.businessinsider.nl

 

[Vero]

It is normal to have to provide some documentation that the funds are legitimate. I would think it would be easy to provide proof. When my son in law bought here he simply had an accountant provide a letter. The escribano just wants to cover themself in case your funds aren't legal.

 

[Yale]

Thank you all for all this info. It is helpful. I found this lawyer from the realtor that recommended her. She has worked with her before. It has been very frustrating going through the buying process. We found a property that we loved but the seller wouldn't sell it unless we agreed to use 50% of the actual purchase price. I was not comfortable doing that. It is comforting to know other's experiences.

Is it not a good idea to use this lawyer? I don't know any and I thought this would make the process smoother.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Thank you all for all this info. It is helpful. I found this lawyer from the realtor that recommended her. She has worked with her before. It has been very frustrating going through the buying process. We found a property that we loved but the seller wouldn't sell it unless we agreed to use 50% of the actual purchase price. I was not comfortable doing that. It is comforting to know other's experiences.

Is it not a good idea to use this lawyer? I don't know any and I thought this would make the process smoother.

It is not a good idea to use the lawyer that the realtor recommends. Especially if you don't know that realtor. Always research this. Sometimes the lawyer is related to the realtor. Feel free to PM me if you need a recommendation. Others here can probably refer you to a good notary.

 

[Johnny]

Thank you all for all this info. It is helpful. I found this lawyer from the realtor that recommended her. She has worked with her before. It has been very frustrating going through the buying process. We found a property that we loved but the seller wouldn't sell it unless we agreed to use 50% of the actual purchase price. I was not comfortable doing that. It is comforting to know other's experiences.

Is it not a good idea to use this lawyer? I don't know any and I thought this would make the process smoother.

@Yale feel free to PM me. I worked with a great lawyer. She speaks English and fluent. From what I am told having a good escribano is the most important part of buying. There are many sharks in BA. I bought in a new construction so I have to use the lawyer from the building because in new buildings they all use the same lawyer. But I met with a lawyer that got my tax ID number and executed a power of attorney. She also reviewed the paperwork of the developer. Happy to recommend her. She is excellent.

 

[Yale]

It is not a good idea to use the lawyer that the realtor recommends. Especially if you don't know that realtor. Always research this. Sometimes the lawyer is related to the realtor. Feel free to PM me if you need a recommendation. Others here can probably refer you to a good notary.

This is something I didn't think about. You make a good point. I sent you a DM Betsy.

@Yale feel free to PM me. I worked with a great lawyer. She speaks English and fluent. From what I am told having a good escribano is the most important part of buying. There are many sharks in BA. I bought in a new construction so I have to use the lawyer from the building because in new buildings they all use the same lawyer. But I met with a lawyer that got my tax ID number and executed a power of attorney. She also reviewed the paperwork of the developer. Happy to recommend her. She is excellent.

Thank you. I sent you a DM Johnny. I am buying an older property. I couldn't find a new construction at the size that I am looking for. I noticed new properties are much more expensive than older properties. The problem with older properties is I will need to renovate. Does anyone have a recommendation on someone that can renovate that is honest?

 

[Betsy Ross]

Money laundering is a big problem not just in Argentina but Brazil and other countries in Latin America. It didn't work out too well for this guy.

Lavó plata para un cartel, se arrepintió y contó todo a la policía: quién era el criptoempresario fusilado en San Pablo al que "se la tenía jurada" el clan más grande de Latinoamérica

Antônio Vinicius Lopes Gritzbach fue acribillado por un grupo de sicarios cuando llegaba a Guarulhos.Había sido testigo arrepentido tras contar cómo lavó casi 100 millones de reales vía criptoactivos para el Primer Comando de la Capital (PCC).Vivía en un departamento con custodia las 24 horas y...

www.clarin.com