What happens if Argentina gets too expensive? What are alternative cities/countries to move to when it's overpriced in Argentina?

[Larry]

You want to hear a crazy story @Betsy Ross? When I first moved to Buenos Aires back in the early 2000's to do my startup, I came across several Americans that saw that I was successful starting a business so tried other businesses. Almost all of them completely failed. They underestimated how tough Argentina business environment is.

I met this one American female and she met with me for a consultation. She was trying to buy an apartment for herself. I gave her advice on doing that and she bought a place. She told me about a business she was going to start. I was an Entrepreneur and had started another company in the USA before moving to BA and was pretty good at figuring out if a business could make it or not so I asked her what she was going to do.

She told me she was going to start an all female gym. I told her I didn't think that would work in Buenos Aires. Then she told me the location and I told her it definitely wouldn't work. She was doing it downtown, which was majority of males working downtown. The more I heard the more I told her that wasn't a good idea.

Well it turns out she did do that gym and it flopped. But the worst thing is she leased the space on a short-term lease. I think only 3 years. She did renovations including making a bigger bathroom. Well her business flopped and I think she tried to get out of her lease early due to lack of business. But the owner was smart enough to put a clause in the contract saying if she didn't finish her lease she had to return the property in the same condition it was in. When she leased it, it was a dumpy property and she fixed it up but he held her to the lease of returning the property like it was. The lady lost a fortune on that.

Every time I hear about someone starting a business here and not owning the building on a short-term lease I think about that woman. Many leases the tenants might get a good deal but with inflation being what it is, they almost always jack up the rent after the lease ends. Many restaurants are in that situation. Not many places own their own building and they lease.

Many restaurants will fold with this Milei administration price increases. Increasing electricity and water 400% suddenly will turn out to be a horrible decision. So many are going out of business or will soon.

 

[Vero]

The Economist should start a Starbucks index. I was in Vancouver, BC recently and a grande coffee was $2.15 at the current exchange rate vs $3.25 to $3.50 in most US Starbucks. Canada has high taxes and labor costs (BC especially) so I can't imagine what accounts for the difference. Eating out was also cheap.

All my normal coffee places in BA are going for 5,000 pesos for a coffee. So $4.25 dollars each which makes it almost double of Vancouver. It's difficult to find a coffee for less than that in BA now. ☕😢

 

[CraigM]

I'm surprised to hear this. Real estate is expensive in Vancouver and the minimum wage is something like $17.50 Canadian dollars per hour or $12.50 per hour in dollars and I believe they have a minimum living wage that can take it even higher. Hard to believe Starbucks is so affordable there. $2.15 seems incredibly cheap.

I was surprised too and just double checked my app. C$3.10 which is US$2.15. I'm at a US Starbucks right now drinking the same coffee for US$3.19. Restaurants were basically the same in Canadian dollars as they are in here in USD, glass of wine for C$12-15, pint of beer C$7. But it makes sense because salaries in Canada have really stagnated the past decade.

 

[Anchor Baby]

I was surprised too and just double checked my app. C$3.10 which is US$2.15. I'm at a US Starbucks right now drinking the same coffee for US$3.19. Restaurants were basically the same in Canadian dollars as they are in here in USD, glass of wine for C$12-15, pint of beer C$7. But it makes sense because salaries in Canada have really stagnated the past decade.

Salaries in some parts of the US now are $20 an hour.

 

[CraigM]

Salaries in some parts of the US now are $20 an hour.

That would certainly explain part of the price gap.

 

[earlyretirement]

Salaries in some parts of the US now are $20 an hour.

Yes. Here in Southern California minimum wage at fast food places are $20 an hour. And many have to actually pay more than that to get people. My local Chick-filet has signs out on their building paying $24/hour to high school kids. In-N-Out has some signs for $25 an hour! And there are cars all day long in line and they are all packed.

That would certainly explain part of the price gap.

Yes, as you guessed, with minimum wages that high everything is inflated in price. I don't go anywhere in the world now where I am shocked by prices dining out. Almost everywhere seems cheap compared to Southern California. You can go to a ho hum place that has healthy food here like True Foods and for the 5 of us in my family (wife and 3 kids) it can routinely be $300 by the time you add on sales tax, tip, and many restaurants have these bogus mandatory 4% "healthcare fees for employees".

 

[CraigM]

Many restaurants will fold with this Milei administration price increases. Increasing electricity and water 400% suddenly will turn out to be a horrible decision. So many are going out of business or will soon.

Larry you might want to look into Mexico City. I was just there on a layover, ubers and restaurants both very cheap. A friend directed me to a restaurant overlooking an archaeological site in the center of town - three delicious tacos for $13, and it was the most expensive thing on the menu. Everyone was well dressed so it was clearly a nice place. A meal of that quality in the US would easily be $35 after tax and tip.

 

[Avocado]

Larry you might want to look into Mexico City. I was just there on a layover, ubers and restaurants both very cheap. A friend directed me to a restaurant overlooking an archaeological site in the center of town - three delicious tacos for $13, and it was the most expensive thing on the menu. Everyone was well dressed so it was clearly a nice place. A meal of that quality in the US would easily be $35 after tax and tip.

I just visited DF 2 months ago. Indeed they have delicious food for very affordable prices. Also the supermarket there amazing! I wish Argentina have delicious tacos like DF. People also so kind. Only thing I did not like was terrible traffic!

 

[earlyretirement]

Larry you might want to look into Mexico City. I was just there on a layover, ubers and restaurants both very cheap. A friend directed me to a restaurant overlooking an archaeological site in the center of town - three delicious tacos for $13, and it was the most expensive thing on the menu. Everyone was well dressed so it was clearly a nice place. A meal of that quality in the US would easily be $35 after tax and tip.

Mexico City is an awesome city. I have permanent residency in Mexico and it's awesome. I have an apartment in Puebla about 90 minutes south of Mexico City and the food is some of the best in the world. You can eat very inexpensive there in Mexico. Great supermarkets too. You can have a great quality of life for not too much money.

 

[Digital Nomad]

Mexico City is an awesome city. I have permanent residency in Mexico and it's awesome. I have an apartment in Puebla about 90 minutes south of Mexico City and the food is some of the best in the world. You can eat very inexpensive there in Mexico. Great supermarkets too. You can have a great quality of life for not too much money.

Mexico City is great! Best food in Latin America. The only thing I hate there is the traffic. Brutal brutal. Many Americans there now. I went last month and there were a lot of Russian girls there too which surprised me.

 

[MikeYoung]

I am here now in BA and prices are all over the place! Jumping around. Maybe with the blue jumping up this past week stores and restaurants are raising their prices. They were fairly stable for a few months but I noticed things change in days! I went to a verduleria and 2 kg of tomatoes was 1000 pesos one day and then the same place had 1 kg for 2200 pesos! I bought some chicken and one day it was about 18,000 pesos and the next was almost 29,000 pesos.

It probably will get crazy until elections or the IMF money comes in. Inflation is heading back up.

 

[Larry]

Larry you might want to look into Mexico City. I was just there on a layover, ubers and restaurants both very cheap. A friend directed me to a restaurant overlooking an archaeological site in the center of town - three delicious tacos for $13, and it was the most expensive thing on the menu. Everyone was well dressed so it was clearly a nice place. A meal of that quality in the US would easily be $35 after tax and tip.

I have been to DF many times. You are correct delicious food at low cost. Unfortunate the price of nice properties there to rent are much higher than BA. Food in BA has gotten too out of hand. Just on friday the cost of chicken jumped up about 24% in my local butcher.

I own my own apartment in Palermo already so that helps on costs. But I enjoy having a coffee out daily and going out to eat a few times a week and that is impossible now. Many restaurants now are 75,000 pesos for a starter and entree and a glass of wine for one person. Go to one of the more popular parillas and you will pay over 130,000 pesos per person now.

 

[Betsy Ross]

I am here now in BA and prices are all over the place! Jumping around. Maybe with the blue jumping up this past week stores and restaurants are raising their prices. They were fairly stable for a few months but I noticed things change in days! I went to a verduleria and 2 kg of tomatoes was 1000 pesos one day and then the same place had 1 kg for 2200 pesos! I bought some chicken and one day it was about 18,000 pesos and the next was almost 29,000 pesos.

It probably will get crazy until elections or the IMF money comes in. Inflation is heading back up.

I noticed chicken prices on Friday jumped up! I didn't see what caused this but where I go it jumped up 20%. People were cutting back on beef and going to chicken and pork because it was cheaper but now those prices are jumping up too.

 

[LyellLanatone]

Mexico City is an awesome city. I have permanent residency in Mexico and it's awesome. I have an apartment in Puebla about 90 minutes south of Mexico City and the food is some of the best in the world. You can eat very inexpensive there in Mexico. Great supermarkets too. You can have a great quality of life for not too much money.

How would you compare it for dangerousness to someone whose never been to Mexico City but spent about a decade in Buenos Aires. For someone who always walks around late at night without caring in Buenos Aires is it similar.ar

 

[earlyretirement]

How would you compare it for dangerousness to someone whose never been to Mexico City but spent about a decade in Buenos Aires. For someone who always walks around late at night without caring in Buenos Aires is it similar.ar

I don't find DF "dangerous" just like I don't find Buenos Aires dangerous. I'd say there are more scams in DF and you have to be careful around several neighborhoods. It's not a cheap city overall after you factor in rent in nice neighborhoods and there are a lot of expats there now. I really love DF. It's a great city. I just don't like the traffic and weather there. I own an apartment in Puebla about 90 minutes south and that entire area has some of the best food in the world.

You can walk around in nice neighborhoods at night. I've never had any issues in Mexico City but usually in the upscale areas.

 

[FuturoBA]

Looking at our spending over the past couple of months, we're between 3 and 4k USD a month, including rent, utilities and expensas. A good bit of that was also furnishing our place, since we rented a completely empty apartment. With the furnishing expenses starting to fade, it's looking like it'll be closer to 2k-2.5k including rent and expensas for March.

If I wasn't married, I could probably pare that down to about 1100-1200/month with a modest lifestyle.

Context: Married couple in our 30s living in a 3-bed 2-bath in Colegiales.

BowtiedMara stated he'd be able to cut down to around your range at $1350, that is still married and without rent.

 

[Marleny]

BowtiedMara stated he'd be able to cut down to around your range at $1350, that is still married and without rent.

Not sure how his OSDE is so cheap. I'm paying way more than that just for my policy.

 

[Darksider415]

BowtiedMara stated he'd be able to cut down to around your range at $1350, that is still married and without rent.

His OSDE is a lot cheaper than mine, his property taxes are somewhere around 80% lower (renters pay those in most contracts here) and he doesn't have building expenses. Also, his grocery bill is lower, though I think part of that is that we get some things that are imported (read: more expensive) because we prefer them.

 

[Larry]

His OSDE is a lot cheaper than mine, his property taxes are somewhere around 80% lower (renters pay those in most contracts here) and he doesn't have building expenses. Also, his grocery bill is lower, though I think part of that is that we get some things that are imported (read: more expensive) because we prefer them.

I don't believe his numbers. Just a few weeks ago I saw a post he made on X where he was complaining how his cost of living has more than doubled. I am sorry but people charging other people for consults to come to Argentina are probably just making numbers up. I will try to find the post but just go on his X and it was not long ago he was talking about how expensive things got. I remember it because he responded to one of the posters here @StatusNomadicus.

Maybe he has the post.

 

[Blockchain]

I don't believe his numbers. Just a few weeks ago I saw a post he made on X where he was complaining how his cost of living has more than doubled. I am sorry but people charging other people for consults to come to Argentina are probably just making numbers up. I will try to find the post but just go on his X and it was not long ago he was talking about how expensive things got. I remember it because he responded to one of the posters here @StatusNomadicus.

Maybe he has the post.

I remember that post too Larry. Sounds like he is flip flopping. Even with the devaluation that didn't help him. That should have hurt him as the blue dollar was higher. No expat is paying anything with official dollars. If anything it sounds like things are going to go up not down for a while. Inflation sounds like it's heading back up.