What happens if Argentina gets too expensive? What are alternative cities/countries to move to when it's overpriced in Argentina?

[sophos]

Given the title of this site, ExpatsBA, I assume the inquiry is aimed at expats blessed with the capacity to relocate when life in Argentina hits its limit.

So, dear fellow wanderers, I'm genuinely intrigued to know: What would it take for you to wave the white flag of intolerance toward life in Argentina?

Is it the never-ending queues and no supply of pesos at ATMs or issues at Western Union in the throes of a peso apocalypse?

Perhaps the prospect of enduring ceaseless lines and grocery store shelves yawning with emptiness in the wake of a full-blown peso collapse?

Or maybe it's the symphony of constant strikes and protests that orchestrate a logistical chaos, disrupting everything from transportation to the delivery of life's essentials?

Could a surge in street crime, complete with armed restaurant robberies, tip the scales of your endurance?

P.S.: I'd love to declare I'm standing my ground, unwavering in the face of any adversity. But let's be real—a 2-meter tsunami cascading 2 kilometers inland might make me rethink my beachfront property. Thankfully, the anticipated tsunami threatening Argentina won't be surfacing from the ocean depths anytime soon.

 

[earlyretirement]

Given the title of this site, ExpatsBA, I assume the inquiry is aimed at expats blessed with the capacity to relocate when life in Argentina hits its limit.

So, dear fellow wanderers, I'm genuinely intrigued to know: What would it take for you to wave the white flag of intolerance toward life in Argentina?

Is it the never-ending queues and no supply of pesos at ATMs or issues at Western Union in the throes of a peso apocalypse?

Perhaps the prospect of enduring ceaseless lines and grocery store shelves yawning with emptiness in the wake of a full-blown peso collapse?

Or maybe it's the symphony of constant strikes and protests that orchestrate a logistical chaos, disrupting everything from transportation to the delivery of life's essentials?

Could a surge in street crime, complete with armed restaurant robberies, tip the scales of your endurance?

P.S.: I'd love to declare I'm standing my ground, unwavering in the face of any adversity. But let's be real—a 2-meter tsunami cascading 2 kilometers inland might make me rethink my beachfront property. Thankfully, the anticipated tsunami threatening Argentina won't be surfacing from the ocean depths anytime soon.

Great discussions on this thread. Thanks everyone for contributing. I love Buenos Aires and fell in love with it, not because it was cheap and affordable but more so for the quality of life and the zest for living. I will never forget even during the corralito walking by La Biela Cafe at 2 AM and seeing old senior citizens drinking coffees. Let's be honest, in the USA, an exciting night for most senior citizens is ordering a pizza after 10 PM. Boring.

I would still love Buenos Aires if it was as expensive as the USA or London or Paris. In many ways, I believe it's much better. I've spent a large part of my life traveling all over the world. I've been to almost every major world capital city in the world. I still have yet to find one that matches Buenos Aires' quality of life and energy and vibe. It's simply one of the best world capital cities in the world.

I still believe the key to staying in a city like Buenos Aires over the long term if you want to retire there is you MUST own vs. renting. It would be too stressful moving around or being at the whims of a property owner there. I love owning multiple properties there. I purchased when they were cheap. I sold most of them but now I'm buying up again as I forecasted prices hit the bottom a few months ago and everything I forecasted including President Milei winning in a landslide have come true.

It's not all rainbows and happiness in Argentina. It has a long tough road ahead of it. It will be painful. And definitely it will get more expensive. But it had to if Argentina wants to improve over the long term. I foresee it being much more expensive and I for one will be glad I'm an owner there vs. a renter.

I"m really shocked at the # of Expats that have almost no net worth at all and almost no savings and living on very meager social security or pension payments. To be honest, I worry as much for these people as I do poorer groups of Argentine citizens. Argentines are accustomed to diversity and struggles and I think their foreign expat counterparts are mostly spoiled and many of them don't understand how expensive things have gotten back home.

I read posts on this forum and others where people talk about "things in Argentina being the same cost as the USA" and this couldn't be further from the truth. There has been a tremendous amount of inflation in the USA and I doubt these expats that can't afford Argentina could live in most places. At least not any desirable places compared to Buenos Aires. I think this is a great thread so they can get ideas but make no mistake. None of these cities will match up to the lifestyle and beauty of Buenos Aires.

I wish everyone a happy and prosperous 2024 and beyond.

 

[Jeep]

Given the title of this site, ExpatsBA, I assume the inquiry is aimed at expats blessed with the capacity to relocate when life in Argentina hits its limit.

So, dear fellow wanderers, I'm genuinely intrigued to know: What would it take for you to wave the white flag of intolerance toward life in Argentina?

Is it the never-ending queues and no supply of pesos at ATMs or issues at Western Union in the throes of a peso apocalypse?

Perhaps the prospect of enduring ceaseless lines and grocery store shelves yawning with emptiness in the wake of a full-blown peso collapse?

Or maybe it's the symphony of constant strikes and protests that orchestrate a logistical chaos, disrupting everything from transportation to the delivery of life's essentials?

Could a surge in street crime, complete with armed restaurant robberies, tip the scales of your endurance?

P.S.: I'd love to declare I'm standing my ground, unwavering in the face of any adversity. But let's be real—a 2-meter tsunami cascading 2 kilometers inland might make me rethink my beachfront property. Thankfully, the anticipated tsunami threatening Argentina won't be surfacing from the ocean depths anytime soon.

Or another option is NONE OF THE ABOVE.

Alright, listen up, folks! So, I've been rocking this part-time gig since way back in 2003. Yeah, I'm practically a time-traveling part-timer. I've surfed the waves of part-time life, from the lows that make you question your choices to the highs that make you go, "I am the part-time champion!"
But here's the plot twist – the only way you're getting me to ditch this part-time paradise is if my ride-or-die crew decides to bail. I mean, come on, who needs a part-time life without the people you love, right?

Now, get ready for the kicker. In all my years of juggling work and play, the last two months have been a wild ride. Why? Because, out of the blue, my squad has gone full-on Sherlock Holmes, cracking the code of alternative citizenship options. I never thought I'd see the day when my loved ones would become citizenship scholars, but here we are! Life's a comedy, my friends.

 

[Swowbird]

If the banter wanders into the realm of life's unbearable dance with financial crises, and the debate takes an unexpected twist:

Wives buying expenses purses from Lopez and expensive Prada shoes and custom-made British Crockett & Jones shoes from London then we might have a pretty darn good idea who the first victims of this financial and economic mess will be. Can we get this thread back on topic please?

Just for the record, I dont own any Crocket & Jones shoes. nor does my wife have any Prada anything. She did buy one Lopez purse however.

I am actually thinking about coming back to Argentina. I still own a property there and the lease ends.

 

[sophos]

Yes, this post is correct. There are thousands of Americans and Canadians living in Chapala/Ajijic area. It's a fine area. I prefer bigger cities but I almost bought a luxury property in Chapala to rent out facing the lake. I have many friends that live in that area. The weather is very nice. A TON of Canadians.

You can research online and see tons of blogs on living in that area:

Yes, You Can! Retire in Ajijic on Less Than $2,000 A Month - Mexico Relocation Guide

Wondering if you can actually retire in Ajijic on less than $2,000 a month? You can do it! Read this comprehensive guide to learn more!

mexicorelocationguide.com

Mexico is amazing and I own several properties in Mexico in different cities. I've been a 5.5 year permanent resident in Mexico and I could get my passport there and I may do that in 2024. I agree there are a lot of benefits including a stable banking system, proximately to the USA, some of the best food in the world. Real estate has gotten expensive there. I purchased many years ago and it's gone up 100% since I purchased from 5.5 years ago. It's been a strong source of income via luxury Airbnb rentals for me. I just purchased another property in Cabo that they are constructing now and done in 2025.

I believe with near-shoring and NAFTA it will be a great place to be a permanent resident and own assets. I am very proud to be a permanent resident there and I spend a lot of time there now. However, it's gotten more expensive but you can still live there and probably a great option if you find Argentina too expensive. Just keep In mind the exchange rate has shifted. During COVID I loaded up and purchased a lot of pesos at as high as 23.5 pesos to $1 USD and it's now under 16.95 pesos to $1 USD which makes it painful.


I agree with some @Larry that you complain too much about Argentina. I disagree with you that it's "as expensive as the USA now" as I saw in some of your posts. I find it's still very affordable if you have USD or Euro income. It is very easy to get permanent residency there. I posted this on my Twitter but I will copy/paste it here too. I have permanent residency in several countries. This was the first time that I did my entire permanent residency process for a foreign country myself without having to hire a lawyer. It was very easy.

https://x.com/BuySellBA/status/1700915447150072212?s=20

I post on several forums under different handles. I have since the Internet began. I've always enjoyed helping people and also learning from others. On these forums, you can figure out quick who is full of sh*t and who knows their stuff.

Once I start buying real estate in foreign countries, I prefer to get permanent residency in that country if possible. That way in the worst case scenario I can legally stay there forever and I have the same rights and privileges as a local.

I got my permanent residency visa in Mexico 5 years ago and it was super easy. I'd recommend anyone that quality do it.

Forgive me this is so long and detailed but another member on the forum asked for information on how to get your Mexican Permanent resident visa as a retireee. Here was my answer cut/pasted below:

________________

You start the process in the Mexican consulate office in your nearest USA city (I did mine in Santa Ana in Orange County, California). You have to either have a bank statement showing $210,000 US for the past 12 months in a row. Or show income via pension or can be rentals via real estate of $5,186 US dollars per month. I didn't know if one was easier/faster than the other but fortunately I qualified for BOTH methods.

Then you go to Mexico to finish the process. Was really easy. I did it 5 years ago and I can get my Mexican passport now if I wanted. I was amazed how simple it was. They have this email system that keeps you informed of every step of the process. Once I went to give them the application it only took 2 weeks. I couldn't believe it! (This outlines the process if you're interested - https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/sandie...s/g_7a_Permanent_Resident_Visa_Retirement.pdf

The down thing is Mexico has gotten really expensive. I own a few properties there and it's expensive now as the Mexican peso has shifted and gotten really strong so the US$ doesn't go that far there now. All my rentals are in USD and expenses are in pesos. That worked when it was 21 pesos to $1US but it's about 17 :1 now.

HOWEVER, if you don't speak Spanish it will be impossible for you to do it yourself. I recommend you check out this company - https://yucatanexpatriateservices.com/category/resident-services if you don't speak Spanish. They can help you. They have great reviews online and they I talked to Adriana when I was going through the process. I determined after an initial consultation that I could do it myself. The only thing I used her for was she prepared some forms for me to fill out to bring to Guadalajara to finish the process. That was a big help.

Here is the address I went to in Guadalajara to apply:

Alcalde No. 500 4° Piso Palacio Federal, Col. Centro, C. P. 44280 Guadalajara, Jal.

Their office hours are Mon-Fri from 9 AM to 1 PM.

_____________________

Checklist of documents to take to Immigration for the “canje” procedure:

-Original and copy of passport (the original is just to compare with the copy; they will give it back to you the same day).

-Copy of the resident visa stamped in the passport. (You get this from Mexican Consulate office in USA).

-Original of the FMM document (the one you will receive at the airport marked as canje for 30 days).

-Letter requesting the resident card.

-Online form requesting the change of document to permanent resident card.

-Formato básico (basic form).

-Payment of immigration fees for the card. You must go to a bank to do this payment with a form the Immigration officer will provide to you when you submit your documents. (The payment will be done by you).


Dues to Immigration for each procedure


Permanent resident card: $4,828.00 pesos. (I paid this back in 2018 but it could have changed today the amount).

_________________

If you speak Spanish then I don't think you'd need to pay anyone other than maybe just Adriana for an initial consultation to get the forms. Let me see in my files if I still find the form. If so, I'll post it here so it will help you and possibly others.


I speak Spanish so I did it myself. As mentioned, you have to start the process in the USA. But once you get to Mexico, you can't leave Mexico again until you get the Permanent Residency card. (Or at least I was told if you do leave it can complicate things). It only took me 2 weeks to get the PR card once I applied. I applied in the Guadalajara office which was very easy. The toughest thing was finding a place that had those funky small photos.

You don't have to spend any amount of time there in Mexico to keep the card. It's impossible for them to keep track when you cross the land borders when you leave. Only when you enter again. For example, AFTER you get your PR card you can just go to Tijuana and cross back into the USA without doing anything with your Mexican Permanent Residency card. Entry to USA is NOT linked to your Mexican PR card. I just enter with my Global Entry card.

I don't live in Mexico full time. I just always like to get Permanent Residency once I start buying real estate in a country. I like to have the same rights and privileges vs. locals. And in many countries you can't open a bank account without getting permanent residency.

It was all very easy in Mexico and as mentioned, I did it myself. I did it several years ago and was the best decision I ever made. I think anyone that can easily qualify for this for Mexico should do it ASAP. They could change the laws so I'd do it now while it's relatively easy.

It just comes down to having enough money in the bank. Just make sure the name on your bank statement matches exactly the name in your passport. They were sticklers about that. I actually had to go back to the Mexican Consulate office because the first time my middle name wasn't on my bank statement. So make sure before your appointment in the USA at the Mexican Consulate, your name matches exactly from Passport to Bank Statement.


Mexico just wants to make sure you won't be a drain on society so they want to make sure you have enough money to retire down there. I hope that helps.


PS. I found the forms that I needed to fill out and bring with me. It was these attachments. Just make sure you bring 3 copies of "infantile" sized photos. There is a place right near the government office in Guadalajara that did these photos. It was VERY frustrating as I had these photos done in USA but the size was a little off. They have to be exactly that size. There was only 1 place I found near there that would do it.


The lady was REALLY nice at the Mexican office as she told me to come back but she said I could skip the line (I waited 2 hours to get to the front of the line). So I went to do photos again and then skipped up to the line. Go early in the morning right when they open.


Also one thing I forgot to mention that was also a bit frustrating. Once you get to the front of the line and turn in all the documents they will give you a little ticket. You do NOT pay for the resident card there. It was a pain but you have to go to the bank (there was one 2 blocks away). And you have to pay for that fee and then once you do, you have to come back to that office to show them you paid.


So all in I think I was there 3 hours because I turned everything in. Then got to the front of the line. Then they said the photo wasn't the exact size they needed. Then she told me where I could go for that. I had to get photos, go back go finish. Then I had to go to the bank and come back. I didn't have to wait again in line once I paid. You go straight to the front of the line. But it still takes time.

So just plan on going for a few hours. There is a room and it was absolutely packed with Americans going through the same process. Most of them didn't speak Spanish so they had a guide there that was with them that was handling everything. I think Adriana from the website above offers that service as well. I'm not sure. But it was easy enough to do it myself minus the issues with the photos.

You can research online and see where are the best cities to do this. I did it in Guadalajara but there might be better cities. But for me it couldn't have gone easier. And they give you this URL link where you can check the status. And they ask for your email address and they keep you updated of the status. I kid you not! Within 2 weeks after applying I already got an email notice saying my Permanent Residency card was waiting to be picked up.

It was more high tech and efficient than even the USA where it took 3.5 months to get my daughter's passport renewed. Very organized system there in Mexico. I went back to the same address to pick it up. No problems at all. I was in and out in 25 minutes this time with PR card in hand.

I've recommended to friends to get their permanent residency card in Mexico. A few did but they hired people to help them. I qualify next year to get my Mexican passport if I want. I have to take some test but I haven't hassled with it just like I haven't hassled to get my Argentina passport even though I would easily qualify. Maybe in the future.


I hope this information helps you and anyone else considering getting Permanent resident card in Mexico. Mexico is an amazing country and one that I look forward to spending more time in. I purchased a few properties there and they have been amazing investments. Real estate has shot up there over the past several years.

Age has NO bearing at all on the retirement visa. As long as you meet (a) enough money in the bank; OR (b) you can show you make $X each month to meet the criteria. Nothing else matters. I got this in my 40's and they don't care how old/young you are. Mexico wisely makes it easy as they figure if you're retiring there you will be spending money there and will be good for their economy.

Yes, if you speak decent Spanish you could probably navigate as long as you know where to go and what to do (which I already explained in detail - that was the tough thing for me). All of these forms is what I had to fill out. If you have a friend that can go to the office in Mexico you can EASILY navigate it without paying a lawyer. All the folks at the Guadalajara office were really patient and great. Even after I was so frustrated with the photo issue, they were kind and let me cut back in line once I found the smaller photos. I highly recommend that office.

Remember, once you apply you can travel anywhere else in Mexico and just come back to Guadalajara once it's done. I'd guess it takes about 14-20 days. You have to come and pick it up in person.


Let us know how it turns out. Mexico is an amazing country to be a permanent resident in. Also, once you have your RFC (Permanent resident card) you can also invest in their CEDES (government treasuries program - https://cetesdirecto.com/sites/portal/inicio). I bought a ton of pesos when it was 23 pesos to $1 US. Then bought some CEDES. Now I just keep rolling over the 28 day CEDES (1 month). They are paying almost 11.5% interest now . So if you're really planning on retiring in Mexico you might want to consider putting some into their treasury program. I like to stay diversified. And it's a guaranteed peso income every month without doing anything. Obviously you have currency risks but I assume you will keep bulk of your savings in US$ or Canadian $.


It ended up being a GREAT call because the peso went from 23 pesos to $1 uS down to under 17 pesos the other day so I've made money on both sides.

Bravo @earlyretirement! Great write up. FYI it is not difficult to get an FM3 visa (https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/leamington/index.php/non-mexicans/visas/115-temporary-resident-visa) to stay in Mexico year round.

I lived for almost 6 years in Mexico just north of Puerto Vallarta in a town called Sayulita. I lived there before I came to Argentina almost 20 years ago. I have no real desire to ever leave Argentina.

 

[Larry]

I know I may be considered doom and gloom and I know I keep saying Argentina is horrible and too expensive but this time I really really mean it.

I can't help but feel a sense of dread about the state of the financial system in Argentina – it's on the brink of collapse, and us expats are caught in the crossfire. The mere thought that expats might not be able to get their hands on their dollars here is enough to make most of us contemplate a swift exit. Dealing with the labyrinth of hoops just to get a bit of cash is beyond frustrating, and the forecast for the next year doesn't look any better with more financial controls looming.

Trying to make a buck in Argentina these days is like attempting to squeeze water from a stone, especially if you're running a business. The startup costs and taxes are sky-high, the local currency is practically monopoly money, and don't even get me started on the bureaucratic nightmare that is the banking system – it's like a world champion in red tape. You all say Milei will make this easier but I don't buy into your arguments.

My credit cards are turning into ticking time bombs, and I'm seriously considering canceling them. With an interest rate that's skyrocketed to over 170% per year, and the peculiar habit of holding onto debt in dollars until it's paid off, it's like financial quicksand. This kind of monetary madness isn't something you'd find in any other corner of the globe.

And let's talk about the banks – they're like aggressive salesmen on steroids. Miss a payment by just two days, and they're on your case, harassing you for every last cent. Customer service? Yeah, right. We're just seen as walking ATMs to milk dry.

Now, add to this mix the alarming increase in people begging for financial help on the streets – some are downright demanding. Argentinians are known for their resilience, but when desperation kicks in, it's a whole new ball game. Look at Venezuela – a society now teetering on the brink of chaos.

 

[Vero]

I know I may be considered doom and gloom and I know I keep saying Argentina is horrible and too expensive but this time I really really mean it.

I can't help but feel a sense of dread about the state of the financial system in Argentina – it's on the brink of collapse, and us expats are caught in the crossfire. The mere thought that expats might not be able to get their hands on their dollars here is enough to make most of us contemplate a swift exit. Dealing with the labyrinth of hoops just to get a bit of cash is beyond frustrating, and the forecast for the next year doesn't look any better with more financial controls looming.

Trying to make a buck in Argentina these days is like attempting to squeeze water from a stone, especially if you're running a business. The startup costs and taxes are sky-high, the local currency is practically monopoly money, and don't even get me started on the bureaucratic nightmare that is the banking system – it's like a world champion in red tape. You all say Milei will make this easier but I don't buy into your arguments.

My credit cards are turning into ticking time bombs, and I'm seriously considering canceling them. With an interest rate that's skyrocketed to over 170% per year, and the peculiar habit of holding onto debt in dollars until it's paid off, it's like financial quicksand. This kind of monetary madness isn't something you'd find in any other corner of the globe.

And let's talk about the banks – they're like aggressive salesmen on steroids. Miss a payment by just two days, and they're on your case, harassing you for every last cent. Customer service? Yeah, right. We're just seen as walking ATMs to milk dry.

Now, add to this mix the alarming increase in people begging for financial help on the streets – some are downright demanding. Argentinians are known for their resilience, but when desperation kicks in, it's a whole new ball game. Look at Venezuela – a society now teetering on the brink of chaos.

Quite a scary post with a lot of drama. But unfortunately mostly true. I know some expats that are finally throwing in the towel or close to it.

 

[Jeb Spencer]

I'm here for work. I will most likely leave once that is over with as the contract is almost up. Milei might be good for Argentina but this mess will take at least 12 months to sort out. Maybe more. My Novia who is from here is ready to leave the country. She has had enough of this. Life in the USA sounds like paradise to her.

 

[James Bond]

Oh, let's take a moment to revel in the striking similarities between the bustling metropolis of Buenos Aires and the cultural powerhouse that is Asuncion. I mean, come on, BA boasts a mere 650 small theaters – small potatoes, right? And who needs a plethora of music choices when you can have a whopping 4 or 5 different options a night? Not to mention the sheer luxury of having only 10,000 restaurants to choose from. As for the manufacturing scene, well, BA clearly has it all – materials, tools, products galore. Move over, Paraguay!

But wait, there's more! BA doesn't just stop at theaters and restaurants; we've got a lively scene in music, fashion, art, architecture, dance, literature, and film. And let's not forget our highly educated creative class, making Asuncion's Mennonites and old fascists look like they're having a cultural tea party. Oh, and I'm sure Paraguay has some very nice people too, somewhere in the mix.

Now, the burning question – are we all here for the culture, or is it just about the unbeatable price tag? I mean, who wouldn't trade the rich tapestry of Buenos Aires for, well, you know, whatever Asuncion has to offer.

Ah, it warms the heart to see Argentina's cultural offerings basking in the spotlight. We're all just here for the cheap, right?

But hey, let's not forget the other side of the moonlit tango – the not-so-glamorous barrios that apparently have a bad rap. Sure, they might be labeled as 'dangerous,' but my limited experience suggests they're just overflowing with decent, struggling folks who have a knack for survival and a fondness for collective support, usually in the form of family. It's practically a cultural haven, with a touch of politics thrown in for good measure – graffiti art documenting the struggle to survive. Here's hoping it helps them weather the impending storm, or as I like to call it, the tormenta.

 

[Tim Joe]

Oh, let's take a moment to revel in the striking similarities between the bustling metropolis of Buenos Aires and the cultural powerhouse that is Asuncion. I mean, come on, BA boasts a mere 650 small theaters – small potatoes, right? And who needs a plethora of music choices when you can have a whopping 4 or 5 different options a night? Not to mention the sheer luxury of having only 10,000 restaurants to choose from. As for the manufacturing scene, well, BA clearly has it all – materials, tools, products galore. Move over, Paraguay!

But wait, there's more! BA doesn't just stop at theaters and restaurants; we've got a lively scene in music, fashion, art, architecture, dance, literature, and film. And let's not forget our highly educated creative class, making Asuncion's Mennonites and old fascists look like they're having a cultural tea party. Oh, and I'm sure Paraguay has some very nice people too, somewhere in the mix.

Now, the burning question – are we all here for the culture, or is it just about the unbeatable price tag? I mean, who wouldn't trade the rich tapestry of Buenos Aires for, well, you know, whatever Asuncion has to offer.

Ah, it warms the heart to see Argentina's cultural offerings basking in the spotlight. We're all just here for the cheap, right?

But hey, let's not forget the other side of the moonlit tango – the not-so-glamorous barrios that apparently have a bad rap. Sure, they might be labeled as 'dangerous,' but my limited experience suggests they're just overflowing with decent, struggling folks who have a knack for survival and a fondness for collective support, usually in the form of family. It's practically a cultural haven, with a touch of politics thrown in for good measure – graffiti art documenting the struggle to survive. Here's hoping it helps them weather the impending storm, or as I like to call it, the tormenta.

It's truly heartening to witness the acknowledgment and celebration of Argentina's vibrant cultural landscape here. The collective gains are undeniable. However, let's not overlook the shadowed corners of Buenos Aires' moonlit streets, where the unfashionable barrios reveal a different narrative. While commonly labeled as 'dangerous,' 'delinquent,' or 'crime-ridden,' my firsthand encounters in these areas unveil a different truth – bustling communities primarily composed of decent individuals grappling with desperate circumstances. Their cultural expressions revolve around survival and reliance on collective (often familial) support.

Inevitably, much of this cultural fabric is steeped in politics, reflecting the struggle for survival, prominently illustrated through poignant graffiti art. As we acknowledge this cultural richness, it's crucial not to paint an overly optimistic picture, but rather to recognize the resilience embedded in these communities. This cultural resilience becomes a crucial lifeline as they brace for the impending 'tormenta.'

Oh, Paraguay, the land of, you know, oranges – because who needs anything else, right? It's like the orange capital of the world, move over, every other fruit! And guess what? It wasn't just the go-to spot for a vitamin C fix; apparently, it was like Nazi central, but with an Italian twist. Picture this: Mussolini's buddies making a run for it, hiding his stash of cash like it's some twisted treasure hunt.

And let's not forget the thrilling river adventures – smuggling galore! It's like the Paraguayan version of a high-stakes water-based heist. Who knew Paraguay had its own version of a riveting crime saga? Move over, Hollywood – Paraguay's got the real deal!

 

[Frosted Flakes]

I'm here for work. I will most likely leave once that is over with as the contract is almost up. Milei might be good for Argentina but this mess will take at least 12 months to sort out. Maybe more. My Novia who is from here is ready to leave the country. She has had enough of this. Life in the USA sounds like paradise to her.

You sound like you have a cushy job to go back to in the USA but many people don't. I have lots of friends struggling there.

There's this oh-so-thriving "very low income middle class" that's practically living the dream, trying to make ends meet. They're playing this exciting game of survival while competing with those astronomically high housing rentals. And guess what? Some of them end up turning their cars into cozy mobile homes. Who needs a fancy address when you can have a car with a view, right? I think that @StatusNomadicus mentioned he lived in an RV before?

Now, let's talk about these gated communities – the saviors of the job market. Sure, it's mostly an informal setup, but who cares? Jobs are jobs, even if they come with a side of questionable legality. And the best part? No need to bother with those pesky buses or cars; it's like a transportation-free utopia.

Oh, and I've heard expats bragging about avoiding neighborhoods with buses. Because clearly, having a car and a home is the ultimate status symbol. Because, you know, who needs public transportation when you can flaunt your wheels?

But wait, there's more! Forget traditional houses – who needs 'em? We've got these modern marvels made of cheap artificial plastic panelling. And you'd think they'd practically be giving these away, right? Nope, try getting anything under a cool $250,000 USD to $350,000 in some cities. Bargain hunting at its finest!

And let's not forget the country's thriving job market – oh, wait, it's not. It's practically a playground for the very rich. That's why they jet off to underdeveloped countries, where they can have affordable help, restaurants, and taxis. But hey, if you're tired of steaks, just hop over to Mexico for some tacos – because who needs asado when you can have tacos on every corner?

Ah, the wonders of a country falling apart, creating a symphony of poverty, lack of options, and job shortages. But hey, at least construction workers still have their beloved asado tradition. Priorities, right?

 

[Uncle Wong]

You sound like you have a cushy job to go back to in the USA but many people don't. I have lots of friends struggling there.

There's this oh-so-thriving "very low income middle class" that's practically living the dream, trying to make ends meet. They're playing this exciting game of survival while competing with those astronomically high housing rentals. And guess what? Some of them end up turning their cars into cozy mobile homes. Who needs a fancy address when you can have a car with a view, right? I think that @StatusNomadicus mentioned he lived in an RV before?

Now, let's talk about these gated communities – the saviors of the job market. Sure, it's mostly an informal setup, but who cares? Jobs are jobs, even if they come with a side of questionable legality. And the best part? No need to bother with those pesky buses or cars; it's like a transportation-free utopia.

Oh, and I've heard expats bragging about avoiding neighborhoods with buses. Because clearly, having a car and a home is the ultimate status symbol. Because, you know, who needs public transportation when you can flaunt your wheels?

But wait, there's more! Forget traditional houses – who needs 'em? We've got these modern marvels made of cheap artificial plastic panelling. And you'd think they'd practically be giving these away, right? Nope, try getting anything under a cool $250,000 USD to $350,000 in some cities. Bargain hunting at its finest!

And let's not forget the country's thriving job market – oh, wait, it's not. It's practically a playground for the very rich. That's why they jet off to underdeveloped countries, where they can have affordable help, restaurants, and taxis. But hey, if you're tired of steaks, just hop over to Mexico for some tacos – because who needs asado when you can have tacos on every corner?

Ah, the wonders of a country falling apart, creating a symphony of poverty, lack of options, and job shortages. But hey, at least construction workers still have their beloved asado tradition. Priorities, right?

Totally! I think people imagine life in the USA is all perfect. I read some posts and people are totally out of touch with reality on prices in the USA right now in many major metro areas.

Oh, the joys of being part of the middle class! Mortgages, credit card debts, health debts, kids' college debts – it's like a debt buffet! And oh, the thrill of job insecurity – what happens if they lose their job? Well, obviously, they embark on this exciting cross-country adventure, scouring the vast expanse of the USA for the next employment oasis.

But wait, there's more! In the middle-class wonderland, kids are practically left to fend for themselves because both parents are juggling work and, of course, studying to ensure that upward climb on the success ladder. Because nothing says "family time" like everyone going their separate ways.
Oh, and let's not forget the highlight of this suburban paradise – not just poor people have family support here, everybody does! It's practically part of the culture, like breathing or binge-watching reality shows.

Because, you know, it's far better than relying on a teenager making out with her boyfriend and getting stoned. Thank goodness for the moral high ground of middle-class family values – it's practically a Shakespearean drama unfolding in the cul-de-sac.

No thanks. I am in the process of selling my apartment in the USA and thinking about moving down here. I can work remotely so going to do that. Argentina is a fraction of the cost back home in Los Angeles.

 

[JonToronto]

I've read about Expats in Buenos Aires complaining for many years. Sure, some leave but the vast majority are complainers. The reality is most don't have anywhere else to go. Many are very low income and surviving off social security or pensions. I can't see many surviving in god awful places compared to BA and people are crazy if they think they can survive the USA.

People like @Larry are complaining but probably will never leave. No matter how good or bad it is, no matter how cheap. People like @Larry are always saying it's expensive here. Go live in Peru and stop complaining.

 

[Larry]

I've read about Expats in Buenos Aires complaining for many years. Sure, some leave but the vast majority are complainers. The reality is most don't have anywhere else to go. Many are very low income and surviving off social security or pensions. I can't see many surviving in god awful places compared to BA and people are crazy if they think they can survive the USA.

People like @Larry are complaining but probably will never leave. No matter how good or bad it is, no matter how cheap. People like @Larry are always saying it's expensive here. Go live in Peru and stop complaining.

OK this time I super duper really double fingers cross mean it. BA is getting very pricey. I think I will finally throw in the towel. Milei is ruining this country and making it impossible to live. I know in my heart Massa would have done better. My #1 pick is Arequipa, Peru. Very nice city and great weather. Really nice scenery and much lower cost of living. Not to mention the food is 100X better than Argentina.

 

[retiredbanker]

So far none of you have done a convincing job telling me what a real alternative is besides Buenos Aires or Argentina.

So, you know, we've all heard that the grass is supposed to be greener on the other side, but let me tell you, these days, it's more like a sad shade of beige. Like, who even needs lush greenery when you can have the exciting world of beige, right? It's practically the new green – or at least that's what I keep telling myself while I gaze at my less-than-thriving backyard. Oh, the wonders of expectations versus reality!

 

[Used]

So far none of you have done a convincing job telling me what a real alternative is besides Buenos Aires or Argentina.

So, you know, we've all heard that the grass is supposed to be greener on the other side, but let me tell you, these days, it's more like a sad shade of beige. Like, who even needs lush greenery when you can have the exciting world of beige, right? It's practically the new green – or at least that's what I keep telling myself while I gaze at my less-than-thriving backyard. Oh, the wonders of expectations versus reality!

Ah, the age-old dilemma – problems everywhere, and not all of us have the magical flexibility we dream of. Take me, for example. I've got this dream of living in the mystical land of Patagonia, but alas, convincing my dear wife to move more than an hour away from CABA is like trying to teach a cat to tap dance. And trust me, I've tried.

Now, how on earth do I sweet-talk her into willingly packing her bags for a whole new country? I mean, I can barely get her to agree on what to have for dinner! Argentina has its fair share of issues, but I still prefer it over the notorious money-sucking black holes that are the US and Canada. Call me crazy, but I've got a well-paying job here that makes me feel all content and stable – a luxury not everyone in this tango-loving nation can boast about.

But hey, if Argentina decides to throw in the towel and become a failed state, my backup plan is Brazil. Picture this: me, sipping caipirinhas on Copacabana beach. It's practically a telenovela waiting to happen. My wife and I even played this fun game at lunch – where would we flee if Argentina pulled a Venezuela? Brazil it is, and we both agree on that. And hey, if I were living the single life, Brazil would still be my top pick. Maybe Chilean Patagonia, but let's be real – it's basically a vacation destination for the rich and famous. So, maybe Mexico or Italy if I could decode the visa mysteries (made much much easier thanks to @earlyretirement - Thanks!!).

Now, you hear lots of Argentines chirping about moving to Uruguay, but between you and me, it sounds like the worst of all worlds – an even pricier and more boring Argentina. And let's not forget the negative population growth – they might want immigrants, but what's the fun in that if there aren't perks to sweeten the deal? Decisions, decisions!

 

[Floripa]

Oh, gather 'round, folks, because I've got a real estate deal that's hotter than a sizzling churrasco! So, here's the scoop: I'm willing to swap my cozy pad in the super-safe haven of Florianopolis for a property of equal awesomeness in Buenos Aires. We're talking good neighbors, room for days, and a safety level that'll make your grandma jealous. My car door locks are basically ornamental at this point – useless! I even accidentally left money on the dashboard once, and guess what? Still there when I got back. It's like living in a crime-free utopia.

Now, you might wonder why I'm plotting my escape from the tropical paradise of Brazil. Well, it's because the country has decided to take a little detour into the world of communist dictatorship – not exactly my idea of a beach party, you know?

So, here I am, ready to make this epic swap, leaving behind the sunny shores of Florianopolis for the vibrant chaos of Buenos Aires. Because nothing says "I'm out" like trading tropical serenity for the thrilling tango of Argentine life. Adiós, Brazil – here comes the next chapter of my real estate escapade!

 

[Digital Nomad]

Alright, buckle up, folks, 'cause I did this super casual, easy-breezy look-see into Paraguay not too long ago. Word on the street is, it's all stable and budget-friendly, but hey, you better have a love affair with the heat – like, summer vacation in the Sahara kind of love.

Now, I'm no expert, just your friendly neighborhood explorer, but hey, if anyone's got some firsthand tales from the land of heatwaves and budget-friendly dreams, spill the tea. What's Paraguay really like? Is it all sizzling stability and pocket-friendly adventures, or are there hidden surprises waiting to jump out and yell, "Surprise, here's some more heat for ya!"? The curious minds want to know!

 

[Javier Milei]

All you expats stop your crying already. I am doing my best to make Argentina great again! What more do you expect from me? I am working hard to fix our great nation. It's one thing for me to allow you to stay as a guest in my country but it's another thing for you to lie and complain that it's the same price as the USA! Come on. That is just a lie. You pretend like things would be doing well with Massa. Keep lying to yourselves if that makes you sleep better at night.

Let's be honest. You Americans aren't going back home. At least be honest with yourselves. If you leave Argentina because you can't afford it, you are certainly NOT heading back to the USA. I was just there last month! It was very expensive. I saw many homeless people on the streets. More than Buenos Aires. So be honest with yourselves. It's not as cheap as @Larry is making it out to be.

You will have it far worse than you have it here. The one thing @Larry is honest about is he must go to a country like Peru. He can't afford the USA. Maybe prepare for life in Venezuela, or Peru or Paraguay or Bolivia but you certainly aren't going back home.

 

[oil rush]

Hey there, expats in BA! Ever thought about ditching the mundane and embracing the wild ride of life in the South of Spain? It's like the global melting pot where Latin Americans and other expats are living their best lives. Think of it as the ultimate jackpot – a place that's cosmopolitan, has healthcare that practically gives you a spa day, living costs that won't drain your bank account, a currency that stays chill, weather that's basically a mood booster, and safety that makes your grandma's neighborhood look like an action movie set. Many Argentines are here in Malaga! Full of Porteños!

Now, let's talk vibe – it's got this Latin American flair that'll make your hips sway involuntarily. And the food? Oh boy, it's like a gastronomic world tour. Malaga, down south, is rising through the ranks and just got voted one of the best places on the planet to call home. And Marbella? It's like the Miami of Europe, minus the sticker shock.

Go a bit west, and you hit up Sotogrande – Polo tournaments, summer vibes, and even some Argentineans in the mix. Take a breezy drive inland, and voilà – Seville, Cordoba, Granada, all these historic beauties waiting to be explored. Keep cruising west, and you hit up Cadiz, the granddaddy of European cities, with its drop-dead gorgeous beaches. Feeling adventurous? Hop on a 30-minute ferry to Tangier in Morocco – it's like a history and culture crash course across the water.
And don't even get me started on the flights – cheap as chips! Jet off to cosmopolitan European cities like London for a measly 48 euros. Madrid is practically a hop, skip, and a jump away – a mere 2.5-hour train ride with tickets that might cost you less than your last Starbucks binge.

I mean, seriously, it's the best place on Earth to live. And don't miss the International Peoples Fair in Fuengirola in May – it's basically a carnival of diversity and culture. Oh, and guess what? More and more Americans are catching on to this Spanish shindig. It's like the cool new hangout spot – who knew? So, what are you waiting for? Grab your passport and come join the fiesta!

Oh, @España I love Spain BUT Malaga is apparently in the fast lane to becoming the new Barcelona, and you know what that means – it's practically a tragedy for us rich expats with our exquisite tastes and high standards.

Now, let me enlighten you about the dire state of affairs for the poor Spanish folk in their 30s. Picture this – they're still bunking with their folks in cozy little apartments, practically playing sardines, and to top it off, they can't even entertain the idea of having adorable little kiddos. Why, you ask? Well, blame it on the rich immigrants and retirees who've swooped in, buying up property like they're collecting Monopoly houses, leaving the locals to cry into their paella.

It's practically a real estate soap opera, with uncontrolled immigration throwing in its two cents. I mean, who knew the quest for sun-soaked paradise could wreak such havoc on the locals? But hey, what can you do? It's tough being a rich expat witnessing the struggle of the poor locals from our ivory towers – I mean, beachfront condos. Let's just hope they find some solace in their sangria, poor things