Real Estate Sales Who are buying houses?

[earlyretirement]

I am curious. Are there many foreigners or Americans out in the gated communities? I am just wondering why they would want to live all the way out there? As I understand it during COVID there was a big push towards big open spaces but is there still demand or interest out there?

There are several expats that are married to Argentines and moved to Buenos Aires. Tons of them. I think after Covid this picked up after
the brutal multi-year lockdown there. My company has been retained by several of this type of client that has kids and want a bigger place. I wouldn't say there are a ton of foreigners out there but there are a lot of wealthy Argentines that own a house out there just to use on the weekend.

i suspect the government numbers and "official" earnings/savings/wealth is so far from reality after almost a century of communism/fascism. i think Argentines have way more money overall than it appears (and the people i see in many neighborhoods paying $2 USD for a can of crappy Heineken beer show me that there is a significant population of regular people who aren't hurting as much as the news media makes it seem)

and if there are almost no costs to hold a property, might be better to just sit and wait for a full offer (if it's paid-off with very cheap utilities/etc.) as @RinderHerts says

whereas in the USA with mortgage monthly costs and non-subsidized utilities, i was in a hurry to sell because the market was dropping and it was costing me money (and a risk of something breaking, etc.) daily.

Totally correct. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of poor in Argentina. Tons. But there is a good % of the population there that is wealthy beyond your wildest dreams. They put my wealthy American friends to shame. There was so much wealth accumulated in Argentina over the past 100 years. Remember when Argentina's GDP was ahead of France and Germany. Many families built up generational wealth and it seems like this is passed down generation to generation. I know a lot of Argentines that live in Buenos Aires but they own a place out in the suburbs and they may or may not use it on the weekends.

@StatusNomadicus is correct that the carrying costs of owning a property as of now as very low. All the properties are paid with cash so no mortgages and the houses and many locals don't even pay property taxes. Utilities are dirt cheap compared to other major metropolitan cities around the world.

With low carrying costs, some of these owners will just sit on the house for years. One of my clients bought a $1 million USD+ house a few months ago and the house was for sale for 4 years. The owner apparently got several offers according to the realtor but they just turned down all offers until they got their price. This is common to see here. We did negotiate down about 7% down from asking but several properties they were looking at the owner wouldn't come down at all.

 

[FuturoBA]

i suspect the government numbers and "official" earnings/savings/wealth is so far from reality after almost a century of communism/fascism. i think Argentines have way more money overall than it appears

This is a the impression I get too, with many workers working en negro the official numbers are probably those working en blanco. Not to say there aren't many who are struggling, but there's also many who are "hiding" their wealth.

 

[Avocado]

This is a the impression I get too, with many workers working en negro the official numbers are probably those working en blanco. Not to say there aren't many who are struggling, but there's also many who are "hiding" their wealth.

Yes in my country we have a group of people that are very wealthy but they hide all wealth outside Argentina or in cash. They not doing their part in helping their country. One thing I like from Milei is he is going after all these people now.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

bumping an old thread to ask for some input on house prices per square meter:

$199k USD for a house that needs renovation (160 m2 covered) in CABA

Casa en venta 4 ambientes en Deheza 4900, Saavedra, Capital Federal

Mirá esta propiedad en RE/MAX: CASA EN VENTA, LOTE PROPIO A REFACCIONAR. LOTE 8,66 X 13,36 LIVING COMEDOR, COCINA, PATIO, TOILETTE Y GARAGE. 2 DORMITORIOS, 1 ESCRITORIO. TERRAZA, Q...

www.remax.com.ar

$150k USD for an upgraded house (168 m2 covered) in the best (Quinta) neighborhood of Mendoza capital

Venta Casa Quinta Sección - Luzuriaga entre Huarpes y Paso de los Andes

Estupenda casa en una de las más bellas zonas de la Quinta Sección de Ciudad de Mendoza. Sobre calle Luzuriaga, a metros del fabuloso Parque San Martín y con salidas e ingresos sencillos y rápidos hacia los más importantes destinos. La propiedad emplazada en dos plantas la cual presenta una...

www.mendozaprop.com

statistics to compare:
CABA is 1,243 USD/m2 for a house needing renovations,
Mendoza is 893 USD/m2 for a renovated house

both are near big parks. the CABA one is sitting on the border of the Province (General Paz highway) in an area i liked (Saavedra/Nunez)

both have 3 bedrooms and a garage, but the CABA one looks like it has one bathroom that is half-working (Mendoza has 2 full baths/showers).

according to @earlyretirement's Mudafy map here https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/v...ll=-34.55742180403167,-58.46294130458014&z=14

...Saavedra should be 1,952 USD/m2 for footage (as size get bigger, houses are more irrelevant than apartments for this m2 metric), or a finished house would be around 160 x 1,952 = $312k USD

another one needing renovations is 1,500 USD/m2 here: https://www.remax.com.ar/listings/venta-casa-a-refaccionar-5-amb-en-saavedra

and a nice house is 1,817 USD/m2 here: https://www.remax.com.ar/listings/casa-saavedra-con-gran-quincho-patio-y-terraza

anyone look at Mendoza property values recently, and want to help me do some "comps" for the 5th Section? (Aristides street, nice area). seems like MendozaProp website is way more accurate than the crap that fills 80% of ArgenProp

 

[Digital Nomad]

bumping an old thread to ask for some input on house prices per square meter:

$199k USD for a house that needs renovation (160 m2 covered) in CABA

Casa en venta 4 ambientes en Deheza 4900, Saavedra, Capital Federal

Mirá esta propiedad en RE/MAX: CASA EN VENTA, LOTE PROPIO A REFACCIONAR. LOTE 8,66 X 13,36 LIVING COMEDOR, COCINA, PATIO, TOILETTE Y GARAGE. 2 DORMITORIOS, 1 ESCRITORIO. TERRAZA, Q...

www.remax.com.ar

$150k USD for an upgraded house (168 m2 covered) in the best (Quinta) neighborhood of Mendoza capital

Venta Casa Quinta Sección - Luzuriaga entre Huarpes y Paso de los Andes

Estupenda casa en una de las más bellas zonas de la Quinta Sección de Ciudad de Mendoza. Sobre calle Luzuriaga, a metros del fabuloso Parque San Martín y con salidas e ingresos sencillos y rápidos hacia los más importantes destinos. La propiedad emplazada en dos plantas la cual presenta una...

www.mendozaprop.com

statistics to compare:
CABA is 1,243 USD/m2 for a house needing renovations,
Mendoza is 893 USD/m2 for a renovated house

both are near big parks. the CABA one is sitting on the border of the Province (General Paz highway) in an area i liked (Saavedra/Nunez)

both have 3 bedrooms and a garage, but the CABA one looks like it has one bathroom that is half-working (Mendoza has 2 full baths/showers).

according to @earlyretirement's Mudafy map here https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1FHjPIF_NkpXCDC3vij_b70mQmoJTqBXK&femb=1&ll=-34.55742180403167,-58.46294130458014&z=14

...Saavedra should be 1,952 USD/m2 for footage (as size get bigger, houses are more irrelevant than apartments for this m2 metric), or a finished house would be around 160 x 1,952 = $312k USD

another one needing renovations is 1,500 USD/m2 here: https://www.remax.com.ar/listings/venta-casa-a-refaccionar-5-amb-en-saavedra

and a nice house is 1,817 USD/m2 here: https://www.remax.com.ar/listings/casa-saavedra-con-gran-quincho-patio-y-terraza

anyone look at Mendoza property values recently, and want to help me do some "comps" for the 5th Section? (Aristides street, nice area). seems like MendozaProp website is way more accurate than the crap that fills 80% of ArgenProp

I haven't looked at houses at all. I looked at a few apartments but most of the pre-existing stuff is really dumpy and needs lots of work. I heard horror stories about renovations. Prices have gone up since I started looking. Lots of totally new projects but those will take many years to complete. Don't know anything at all about Mendoza. Are there any Facebook expat groups for Mendoza? Might want to ask on them. It doesn't seem like there are many expats anywhere except for BA.

Does Zonaprop work for Mendoza? All these MLS sites are garbage compared to the States. Most of the realtors suck here or are very lazy.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

Zonaprop

there is a Mendoza button on ZonaProp, but i despise that site so much i've just been using MendozaProp and my lady has been looking on Facebook.

Loading…

www.zonaprop.com.ar

the realtors in CABA are the worst. it's been noticeably better in Mendoza (i've actually seen some properties and met with a notary and made some good progress, seen a real "Mensura" or blueprint of sorts. and the market seems WAY less crazy here. CABA had tiny apartments in shitty areas for super expensive. there's a ton of stuff in Mendoza, walkable safe areas, for 75k-200k depending on if you want a nice apartment or big house. if i had a trillion dollars and was going to gift you a nice place to live in Mendoza near the hip Aristides area (i think it's better than Palermo by a long shot), i would buy you something like this, based on my 1 month of living here and doing daily research:

Piraino Estudio Inmobiliario - ID#396 - Departamento en Venta

EN VENTA DEPARTAMENTO EN EDIFICIO DAVINCHI, UBICADO EN UNA ZONA PRIVILEGIADA FRENTE A PLAZA ITALIA, SOBRE CALLE SAN LORENZO, A MTS. DE ARÍSTIDES VILLANUEVA. EL DEPARTAMENTO CUENTA CON COCINA, LIVING COMEDOR CON ACCESO A GRAN VISTA POR SU BALCÓN HACIA LA PISCINA, 1 DORMITORIO CON PLACARES...

inmoup.com.ar

https://www.remax.com.ar/listings/venta-departamento-ciudad-mendoza-1 (not as close, more downtown)

(but if you have a car, there are some nice private neighborhoods 20 minutes from the center, with mountain views)

i also knew nothing about Mendoza. here's a 20-min walking tour of the area i've been eating-out in

 

[Vince]

there is a Mendoza button on ZonaProp, but i despise that site so much i've just been using MendozaProp and my lady has been looking on Facebook.

Loading…

www.zonaprop.com.ar

the realtors in CABA are the worst. it's been noticeably better in Mendoza (i've actually seen some properties and met with a notary and made some good progress, seen a real "Mensura" or blueprint of sorts. and the market seems WAY less crazy here. CABA had tiny apartments in shitty areas for super expensive. there's a ton of stuff in Mendoza, walkable safe areas, for 75k-200k depending on if you want a nice apartment or big house. if i had a trillion dollars and was going to gift you a nice place to live in Mendoza near the hip Aristides area (i think it's better than Palermo by a long shot), i would buy you something like this, based on my 1 month of living here and doing daily research:

Piraino Estudio Inmobiliario - ID#396 - Departamento en Venta

EN VENTA DEPARTAMENTO EN EDIFICIO DAVINCHI, UBICADO EN UNA ZONA PRIVILEGIADA FRENTE A PLAZA ITALIA, SOBRE CALLE SAN LORENZO, A MTS. DE ARÍSTIDES VILLANUEVA. EL DEPARTAMENTO CUENTA CON COCINA, LIVING COMEDOR CON ACCESO A GRAN VISTA POR SU BALCÓN HACIA LA PISCINA, 1 DORMITORIO CON PLACARES...

inmoup.com.ar

https://www.remax.com.ar/listings/venta-departamento-ciudad-mendoza-1 (not as close, more downtown)

(but if you have a car, there are some nice private neighborhoods 20 minutes from the center, with mountain views)

i also knew nothing about Mendoza. here's a 20-min walking tour of the area i've been eating-out in

I have no knowledge of the Mendoza market at all. Just note that things are much closer to move there if you need to sell. I had a friend that owned a house there a while back and it was for sale for 3 years. Even with lowering the price there is less demand there vs. CABA. Many people even if they aren't living in CABA will buy in CABA just for investment potential. Maybe things have changed in Mendoza but I think most cities are like that. Same thing happened with another friend with his house in Bariloche. It was for sale for 4 years. Just didn't seem to be the demand that you see in BA.

As with anything Argentina related probably best to plan for the long-term and be ok with sitting on it if it can't sell. Properties in BA are more liquid and also rent better. My wife's family puts their money into real estate because it doesn't make sense to sit on cash with inflation. Many people in Argentina do the same thing and most would rather own in CABA vs. other areas. Not sure if that is a consideration or not @StatusNomadicus. Realtors in Argentina are horrible. I don't think they can get worse than BA.

On houses price is going to depend on not just covered sq. meters but also lot size. A good realtor in Mendoza would probably be able to tell you what fair value is for that neighborhood. Here prices are all over the place. On new construction in Palermo it's already over $4,000 sq. meter in many buildings now.

@Digital Nomad is right about caution with renovations. We used a friend of my wife and we still had issues.

 

[Betsy Ross]

I have no knowledge of the Mendoza market at all. Just note that things are much closer to move there if you need to sell. I had a friend that owned a house there a while back and it was for sale for 3 years. Even with lowering the price there is less demand there vs. CABA. Many people even if they aren't living in CABA will buy in CABA just for investment potential. Maybe things have changed in Mendoza but I think most cities are like that. Same thing happened with another friend with his house in Bariloche. It was for sale for 4 years. Just didn't seem to be the demand that you see in BA.

As with anything Argentina related probably best to plan for the long-term and be ok with sitting on it if it can't sell. Properties in BA are more liquid and also rent better. My wife's family puts their money into real estate because it doesn't make sense to sit on cash with inflation. Many people in Argentina do the same thing and most would rather own in CABA vs. other areas. Not sure if that is a consideration or not @StatusNomadicus. Realtors in Argentina are horrible. I don't think they can get worse than BA.

On houses price is going to depend on not just covered sq. meters but also lot size. A good realtor in Mendoza would probably be able to tell you what fair value is for that neighborhood. Here prices are all over the place. On new construction in Palermo it's already over $4,000 sq. meter in many buildings now.

@Digital Nomad is right about caution with renovations. We used a friend of my wife and we still had issues.

Agree about realtors being very bad for the most part in Argentina compared to the USA and maybe anywhere else. Also agree to only buy a place in somewhere you are ok for owning for the long haul. Especially on a bigger property. The pool of buyers on bigger properties is much smaller because of their purchase price. Same thing happens for houses for sale in northern suburbs. Some have been sitting for sale for years. Fortunately here property taxes and fees are much cheaper than States. People have paid off properties with no mortgages so they are ok with sitting on properties for years since you big expenses but it is something to note.

I do think if you are sure you will live in Argentina in the future it is better to own vs. rent.

 

[Bill]

My friend just bought a property in BA. He was amazed how the realtor doesn't really do much and still gets paid 4%. Drove him nuts paying so much but there was no way around it. There are almost no listings for sale by owner. All in with various fees and taxes he paid over 12% in various taxes and fees.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

closer to move there if you need to sell

autocorrect from "slower" yeah? sounds like good advice, and maybe the mindset should be to buy something that will be most-likely to rent year-round on Airbnb (close to tourist spots), so the selling ends up not being as much of an issue. the hard part would be having someone to be your property manager, if you didn't have a 2nd property nearby while you do the cleaning/flipping

i will for sure be hiring an Inspector. so far people here have made it seem like property inspections aren't too common - from my USA experience, this is the first priority with any purchase, so i won't be changing that just because i moved countries BuySellBA article mentioned inspections, too.

i know BsAs might be 'better' but i don't really like big cities, i like to see mountains, i don't like humidity, and i don't like mosquitoes plus, if i can find a province with better gun rights and less Peronists, perfect! more research/travel needed.

if you are sure you will live in Argentina in the future it is better to own vs. rent.

i'm treating Argentina as my PlanB for WW3, so yes i would only buy if i was staying long-term. my dream would be moving every 6 months south to north as the weather is more advantageous, but it will take some time (and dependent on my crypto value). i suspect once Argentina makes things smoother, that it will become quite the haven for folks like me, and not just because it is cheap in Dollars right now

 

[earlyretirement]

autocorrect from "slower" yeah? sounds like good advice, and maybe the mindset should be to buy something that will be most-likely to rent year-round on Airbnb (close to tourist spots), so the selling ends up not being as much of an issue. the hard part would be having someone to be your property manager, if you didn't have a 2nd property nearby while you do the cleaning/flipping

i will for sure be hiring an Inspector. so far people here have made it seem like property inspections aren't too common - from my USA experience, this is the first priority with any purchase, so i won't be changing that just because i moved countries BuySellBA article mentioned inspections, too.

i know BsAs might be 'better' but i don't really like big cities, i like to see mountains, i don't like humidity, and i don't like mosquitoes plus, if i can find a province with better gun rights and less Peronists, perfect! more research/travel needed.


i'm treating Argentina as my PlanB for WW3, so yes i would only buy if i was staying long-term. my dream would be moving every 6 months south to north as the weather is more advantageous, but it will take some time (and dependent on my crypto value). i suspect once Argentina makes things smoother, that it will become quite the haven for folks like me, and not just because it is cheap in Dollars right now

Vince makes excellent points about larger properties taking longer to sell due to far smaller pool of buyers for more expensive properties in Argentina. Back when I started buying in 2002 and the early 2000's most locals couldn't afford to buy larger homes. So many foreigners were buying many of the larger properties in Palermo. Some would sit on the market for years. Even though mortgages have started, it's still a tiny sliver of the market and even with mortgages, most don't qualify to buy larger properties. Most just smaller studio or 1 bedroom apartments for the most part.

Very true @StatusNomadicus about owning a property remotely in a foreign country. I have owned several properties in Latin America and it can be a dream or it can be a nightmare. It all depends how great of a property manager you have. And just because you start out with a great one it doesn't mean they will always be good. I actually had a property manager in Punta del Este, Uruguay once try to sue me claiming that I gave her half the business. It was crazy and I won the lawsuit but had to spend a lot of time and money fighting her in court. You pretty much see it all here in Latin America. Mexico has by far been the easiest as people there work very hard and are loyal for the most part. But it can be an absolute nightmare if you don't have the right property manager in place.

Property inspections here aren't common like in the USA where you have mortgage companies require them. I always did them with architects. But fortunately now there is a new start-up that has recently started and they do really extensive property inspections. You can see them here @StatusNomadicus Let me know if you want an introduction to the Founders. Really organized and a lot of experience in the industry.

Also, some others are correct when they say renovations and new construction can be a pain. I've had several custom homes built in Buenos Aires and they turned out great but they took longer and more expensive than they said. I also built a house in Punta del Este, Uruguay that turned out nice. The key is to use reputable people which isn't always easy to find here.

CheckHome

Inspeccioná tu propiedad antes de hacer una compra o venta. Únicos con certificación internacional. Conocé cual es el estado real del inmueble.

checkhome.com.ar

 

[StatusNomadicus]

here checkhome.com.ar

par for the course for Argentina, i WhatsApp messaged them at 16:30 yesterday and haven't gotten a response

i'll keep looking for more inspectors. not in a hurry, but it's hilarious how horrible 80% of Argentine companies are at doing the most basic of tasks that i was able to do when i was in my mid-20s managing a department's email/contact (hint: i checked the emails every morning and responded to every one of them ahahahah, crazy, i know)

 

[Billy Goat]

par for the course for Argentina, i WhatsApp messaged them at 16:30 yesterday and haven't gotten a response

i'll keep looking for more inspectors. not in a hurry, but it's hilarious how horrible 80% of Argentine companies are at doing the most basic of tasks that i was able to do when i was in my mid-20s managing a department's email/contact (hint: i checked the emails every morning and responded to every one of them ahahahah, crazy, i know)

I don't think there is anyone with good response time in Argentina with the exception of maybe foreign owned companies. It is one of the frustrating things about Argentina. Even companies that are struggling and need money and complain when given the chance are slow to respond.

 

[earlyretirement]

par for the course for Argentina, i WhatsApp messaged them at 16:30 yesterday and haven't gotten a response

i'll keep looking for more inspectors. not in a hurry, but it's hilarious how horrible 80% of Argentine companies are at doing the most basic of tasks that i was able to do when i was in my mid-20s managing a department's email/contact (hint: i checked the emails every morning and responded to every one of them ahahahah, crazy, i know)

Ha. Yeah, I don't think at the end of the business day any of these companies are good with responses. I just DM'd you one of the owner's Whatsapp so hopefully that helps with response time. Their reports are really by far the best I have seen here in Argentina. They look very detail oriented. And they charge the same as others that aren't nearly as detailed so good luck.

 

[Vince]

autocorrect from "slower" yeah? sounds like good advice, and maybe the mindset should be to buy something that will be most-likely to rent year-round on Airbnb (close to tourist spots), so the selling ends up not being as much of an issue. the hard part would be having someone to be your property manager, if you didn't have a 2nd property nearby while you do the cleaning/flipping

i will for sure be hiring an Inspector. so far people here have made it seem like property inspections aren't too common - from my USA experience, this is the first priority with any purchase, so i won't be changing that just because i moved countries BuySellBA article mentioned inspections, too.

i know BsAs might be 'better' but i don't really like big cities, i like to see mountains, i don't like humidity, and i don't like mosquitoes plus, if i can find a province with better gun rights and less Peronists, perfect! more research/travel needed.


i'm treating Argentina as my PlanB for WW3, so yes i would only buy if i was staying long-term. my dream would be moving every 6 months south to north as the weather is more advantageous, but it will take some time (and dependent on my crypto value). i suspect once Argentina makes things smoother, that it will become quite the haven for folks like me, and not just because it is cheap in Dollars right now

Sorry for typo. Yeah I meant slower. Amen on not changing common sense because you are in a foreign country. Sometimes people throw common sense out the window when they aren't at home. If anything you have to be more careful here than anywhere else. Once you hand over the cash it is a done deal. It is buyer before once you close. My friend bought an apartment in Palermo Soho recently and all appeared to be ok but the owner before him repaired a leak and patched it up and repainted it. I did one when I bought my place. There were not formal companies doing them. My wife's friend that was an engineer did it. Doesn't make sense not spending a few hundred bucks to get one done.

If you plan on moving around every 6 months then renting sounds like it is the way to go for you. I have friends that retired and did that and they enjoy it. I need a home base but everyone is different.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

and now in CABA perhaps building a house on the outskirts might be the best move, depending on how many high-rise luxury apartment buildings get delayed now with a possible new decree:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820614107285897368

 

[Wally]

and now in CABA perhaps building a house on the outskirts might be the best move, depending on how many high-rise luxury apartment buildings get delayed now with a possible new decree:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820614107285897368

Macri is a moron. Cutting construction during a middle of a deep recession seems like one of the dumbest things a Mayor could do.