Who is responsible for the monthly (expensas) on a rental? Landlord or Tenant?

[Oatmeal]

@Oatmeal where are you looking for the long-term rentals? Keep in mind that many locals will ask for a guarantia or guarantor that you need to co-sign on the lease. Renting can be a hassle here. A way you can get around that is pre-pay on the lease. Basically here in BA if a tenant stops paying they have squatter rights so it's difficult to get them out. Because of this many owners will ask you to buy a bond or ask for a co-signer.

How are you finding the apartment? Some realtors will try to get a commission again but as others mentioned, best to deal directly with the owner. Just make sure you have a rental contract and have all the terms in it.

Yes we are looking for longer term 1 year to start. I notice there are services that you pay if I do not have a quarantia https://hoggax.com/. Not sure if they are reputable but the website seems quite clear on what they offer, even for foreigners. Our options for searching now is AirBnb, the link provided above and our plans is to speak to a realtor based on the listings we find on zonaprop. Ideally we rather find non furnished but initially a furnished place while this gives us time to find something we like. Any suggestions on how to speak to the owner on non furnished listings?

 

[Oatmeal]

Can foreigners buy this bond/insurance? A friend told me that they only sell them to locals not foreigners. Is that true?

I found this site which specifically states foreigners to contact them which seems to me they offer the serivce https://hoggax.com/.

 

[earlyretirement]

Utility bills have historically been low due to subsidies. But that is changing and quickly.

My March Electricity Bill was double the February bill / consumption was the exact same / unfortunately my income is also the exact same.

Yes they are changing but still what was the actual amount of your March bill? My bills are also going up but I guess my point was even if they go up from these levels the rates are still relatively low compared to most countries. Electricity is crazy expensive in many countries where I owned houses in Latin America. In Mexico on a 3 bedroom apartment my electricity bill is about $1,000 USD for 2 months.

 

[Oatmeal]

Utility bills have historically been low due to subsidies. But that is changing and quickly.

My March Electricity Bill was double the February bill / consumption was the exact same / unfortunately my income is also the exact same.

Are you renting a non furnished apartment? Did you have to register utility bills under your name? or do they remain with the owner of the apartment and you just pay the bill as it comes?
I'm wondering if I require a DNI to get internet net services as well.

 

[earlyretirement]

Yes we are looking for longer term 1 year to start. I notice there are services that you pay if I do not have a quarantia https://hoggax.com/. Not sure if they are reputable but the website seems quite clear on what they offer, even for foreigners. Our options for searching now is AirBnb, the link provided above and our plans is to speak to a realtor based on the listings we find on zonaprop. Ideally we rather find non furnished but initially a furnished place while this gives us time to find something we like. Any suggestions on how to speak to the owner on non furnished listings?

Airbnb is only furnished rentals so if you don't want furniture you can avoid that site. Your best bet on unfurnished properties is to just look on ZonaProp. You're plan to rent a furnished rental for a month or two is a good idea. Don't try to tackle unfurnished rental until you are here personally and can deal with it and see the neighborhoods well. Being here for a month or two will give you a good idea what area you want to be in.

Some of the Zonaprop listings are owner direct so you can see. I wouldn't get too focused on not paying a realtor. Just find a good place that you can call home for 1 year.

 

[Oatmeal]

Yes they are changing but still what was the actual amount of your March bill? My bills are also going up but I guess my point was even if they go up from these levels the rates are still relatively low compared to most countries. Electricity is crazy expensive in many countries where I owned houses in Latin America. In Mexico on a 3 bedroom apartment my electricity bill is about $1,000 USD for 2 months.

$500 USD/month for electricity? That seems quite high.

 

[earlyretirement]

Are you renting a non furnished apartment? Did you have to register utility bills under your name? or do they remain with the owner of the apartment and you just pay the bill as it comes?
I'm wondering if I require a DNI to get internet net services as well.

On a long-term rental, you don't have to register the utility bills under your name. The owner will already have utility bills under their names. They aren't going to change that under your name as it's a hassle to change names. Heck, sometimes utility bills still come under the old owner as some people don't bother to change it. There is no real credit system in Argentina so people don't really care about whose name is on the bill. If it gets unpaid for long they will shut it off.

You shouldn't have issues getting internet services in your apartment. Ask the owner to set that up for you and tell them you will pay for it. Or ask the realtor to assist you if the owner won't. Take control of your search and make them work for their money.

 

[earlyretirement]

$500 USD/month for electricity? That seems quite high.

Yes, it's a large 2,500 sq. feet Airbnb that gets rented about 26 days out of the month. People normally just keep on the AC without turning it off but now I changed it to allow certain kWh per day and then say I will charge but I haven't yet. Electricity prices in Mexico are very expensive.

 

[Betsy Ross]

I found this site which specifically states foreigners to contact them which seems to me they offer the serivce https://hoggax.com/.

I haven't heard of this company before but sounds like a great service. I see that they have the option for Passport. I am just wondering if they actually will write up a policy. Have you spoken to anyone that has used them? Sometimes you will see something on a website but then when you actually try to use it, they say they can't so you might want to ask them in detail. Please post back and report.

 

[Oatmeal]

Airbnb is only furnished rentals so if you don't want furniture you can avoid that site. Your best bet on unfurnished properties is to just look on ZonaProp. You're plan to rent a furnished rental for a month or two is a good idea. Don't try to tackle unfurnished rental until you are here personally and can deal with it and see the neighborhoods well. Being here for a month or two will give you a good idea what area you want to be in.

Some of the Zonaprop listings are owner direct so you can see. I wouldn't get too focused on not paying a realtor. Just find a good place that you can call home for 1 year.

Exactly, furnished initially and get a feel on what areas we like. During this time plan on a non furnished apartment. On our last visit we check out some furniture stores and have an idea on the lead time. We look forward to exploring the city and bookmarking stores we like. Great tip on searching for direct owners. I hear you on a realtor as it seems to be a necessary evil but do want to be prepared if they are no transparent on contracts.

 

[Oatmeal]

I haven't heard of this company before but sounds like a great service. I see that they have the option for Passport. I am just wondering if they actually will write up a policy. Have you spoken to anyone that has used them? Sometimes you will see something on a website but then when you actually try to use it, they say they can't so you might want to ask them in detail. Please post back and report.

We haven't yet but we do, more than happy to provide an update.

 

[Oatmeal]

Yes, it's a large 2,500 sq. feet Airbnb that gets rented about 26 days out of the month. People normally just keep on the AC without turning it off but now I changed it to allow certain kWh per day and then say I will charge but I haven't yet. Electricity prices in Mexico are very expensive.

That makes sense since it is an AirBnB.

 

[Flamingo]

Exactly, furnished initially and get a feel on what areas we like. During this time plan on a non furnished apartment. On our last visit we check out some furniture stores and have an idea on the lead time. We look forward to exploring the city and bookmarking stores we like. Great tip on searching for direct owners. I hear you on a realtor as it seems to be a necessary evil but do want to be prepared if they are no transparent on contracts.

Smart. I was going to mention lead times. Just keep in mind most furniture stores don't have anything in stock. You order and pay a deposit and then they start making it. Realtors are a necessary evil as many owners don't want to hassle with listing a property for sale or rent on their own. Just make sure the rental contract has the terms you want and don't be afraid to ask for it.

 

[Digital Nomad]

Exactly, furnished initially and get a feel on what areas we like. During this time plan on a non furnished apartment. On our last visit we check out some furniture stores and have an idea on the lead time. We look forward to exploring the city and bookmarking stores we like. Great tip on searching for direct owners. I hear you on a realtor as it seems to be a necessary evil but do want to be prepared if they are no transparent on contracts.

I am doing the same thing as you @Oatmeal except I am trying to find something to purchase and then furnish. So a bit similar process. I have enjoyed renting Airbnbs in different parts of the city to see which I like better. My problem is all the places I have seen that I like the kitchen and bathrooms are really dated so I would have to renovate and I don't want to go through that process. On newer stuff they are building it is several years out on some interesting projects. Please post if you have luck with that insurance for the long term lease. I tried one and they said I couldn't as a foreigner so I just gave up. My parents did not want to prepay a year ahead of time like one wanted.

 

[Oatmeal]

I am doing the same thing as you @Oatmeal except I am trying to find something to purchase and then furnish. So a bit similar process. I have enjoyed renting Airbnbs in different parts of the city to see which I like better. My problem is all the places I have seen that I like the kitchen and bathrooms are really dated so I would have to renovate and I don't want to go through that process. On newer stuff they are building it is several years out on some interesting projects. Please post if you have luck with that insurance for the long term lease. I tried one and they said I couldn't as a foreigner so I just gave up. My parents did not want to prepay a year ahead of time like one wanted.

I will definitely share our experiences with finding a guarantor. 1 year prepay seems quite high for me, in the past we have done 6 months initially and 3 months after (in Colombia). I think it boils down to the owner, how they accept payments (outside Argentina to a US account?) and the rental market. My gf joined a local AirBnB FB group and their seems to be post about the market being a little slow and hosts having to lower their price to remain competitive. I am not sure if this is true but at worst we all should be negotiating. I do see plenty of options for Palermo however we are open to more north in hte hopes to find a place we like and take advantage of the situation where not all potential tenants want the tourist area.

If you are buying, finding the right contractor is going to be a challenge so I wish you luck. We thought about buying but our short term goal is to rent first and see if it is worth buying. We are very very tempted at some beautiful homes in Nordelta and some rough discussion with locals has said it is customary and expecting a discount is normal. Anywhere from 10 - 35% based on the area. My local friend sent me this article. It talks about asking price vs selling price and the delta (difference). Check it out, might help you in the search (https://www.deinmobiliarios.com/blog/valor-del-metro-cuadrado-por-barrios-en-caba). What my friend is saying, it never hurts to ask, or play hardball. He is interested in a place called Area 60 in the south which is a gated area with some nice homes, one listing he showed me where the agent offered the price by 15% without asking but his perspective it would be around 25%. So really boils down to the owner and how motivated they want to sell.

 

[earlyretirement]

I will definitely share our experiences with finding a guarantor. 1 year prepay seems quite high for me, in the past we have done 6 months initially and 3 months after. I think it boils down to the owner, how they accept payments (outside Argentina to a US account?) and the rental market. My gf joined a local AirBnB FB group and their seems to be post about the market being a little slow and hosts having to lower their price to remain competitive. I am not sure if this is true but at worst we all should be negotiating. I do see plenty of options for Palermo however we are open to more north in hte hopes to find a place we like and take advantage of the situation where not all potential tenants want the tourist area.

If you are buying, finding the right contractor is going to be a challenge so I wish you luck. We thought about buying but our short term goal is to rent first and see if it is worth buying. We are very very tempted at some beautiful homes in Nordelta and some rough discussion with locals has said it is customary and expected a discount is expected. Anywhere from 10 - 35% based on the area. My local friend sent me this article. It talks about asking price vs selling price and the delta (difference). Check it out, might help you in the search (https://www.deinmobiliarios.com/blog/valor-del-metro-cuadrado-por-barrios-en-caba). What my friend is saying, it never hurts to ask, or play hardball. He is interested in a place called Area 60 in the south which is a gated area with some nice homes, one listing he showed me where the agent offered the price by 15% without asking but his perspective it would be around 25%. So really boils down to the owner and how motivated they want to sell.

Everything is negotiable. Just keep in mind the brutal laws for owners if you stop paying and refuse to move out. It's literally years in the legal system. So you have to understand that. At one time at my peak, I owned 15 apartments in Buenos Aires. I sold off all but 2 of them. I would NEVER do long-term rentals with locals. When I did long-term rentals with companies they co-signed or with foreigners I collected typically 6 to 12 months ahead of time.

I think on the long-term rentals it's more competitive as a flood of properties went on the market once Milei fixed the rental law and many raised their prices. The economy is so bad that people just can't afford the asking prices so the market is slow. But on short-term rental market I am busier than ever. I own a place in Recoleta that I rented out on a 2 year long-term rental and one in Palermo Hollywood and my Palermo Hollywood is crazy busy. Renting it out about 25 days a month at around $90 USD per night blended rate. My friends that own higher end properties that are furnished well are also fairly busy.

But this is probably a good time to find a long-term lease apartment. It would be great if you can get that insurance as a foreigner. I'm not sure how expensive it is but I would say look at the cost. I generally find that as long as you're dealing with an ethical owner, paying several months ahead of time is not a big deal as long as you have a good rental contract.

You can save a lot of money going outside the traditional touristy areas of Palermo and Recoleta which I agree are the two nicest neighborhoods for living and very central but Buenos Aires has a lot of great neighborhoods. You can save a lot of money going off the beaten path and they are still wonderful for living. You can see a little summary of each neighborhood here:

BuySellBA

Don't buy real estate in Buenos Aires without knowing all of the laws, ins and outs and all the possible pitfalls.

buysellba.com

Finding good architects are not always the easiest but I have done over 100 renovations as well as complete builds of luxury houses and had good people. I even used the same architect to build my house when I bought land in Punta del Este, Uruguay. There are good people out there. Feel free to DM me and I can give you a referral for good people.

Nordelta is a beautiful area but I'd say be careful as it's not really a liquid market. Less demand for property purchases out there so I know some people that bought really nice places and when they want to sell it's difficult. Just keep that in mind. Generally NO ONE is accepting low ball offers of 25% to 30% lower than ask. That just isn't happening in this market place. Demand has picked up.

 

[GlasgowJohn]

Are you renting a non furnished apartment? Did you have to register utility bills under your name? or do they remain with the owner of the apartment and you just pay the bill as it comes?
I'm wondering if I require a DNI to get internet net services as well.

Utility bills tend to be in the name of the original owner/tenant . It can be a real hassle to change the names

In our current house which we own we have just finished changing the names / Electricity was quite easy ( Edenor) but Gas with Naturgy was areal hassle.

You can definitely get internet with just your passport. Or your landlord can do it and recharge you.

 

[GlasgowJohn]

Everything is negotiable. Just keep in mind the brutal laws for owners if you stop paying and refuse to move out. It's literally years in the legal system. So you have to understand that. At one time at my peak, I owned 15 apartments in Buenos Aires. I sold off all but 2 of them. I would NEVER do long-term rentals with locals. When I did long-term rentals with companies they co-signed or with foreigners I collected typically 6 to 12 months ahead of time.

I think on the long-term rentals it's more competitive as a flood of properties went on the market once Milei fixed the rental law and many raised their prices. The economy is so bad that people just can't afford the asking prices so the market is slow. But on short-term rental market I am busier than ever. I own a place in Recoleta that I rented out on a 2 year long-term rental and one in Palermo Hollywood and my Palermo Hollywood is crazy busy. Renting it out about 25 days a month at around $90 USD per night blended rate. My friends that own higher end properties that are furnished well are also fairly busy.

But this is probably a good time to find a long-term lease apartment. It would be great if you can get that insurance as a foreigner. I'm not sure how expensive it is but I would say look at the cost. I generally find that as long as you're dealing with an ethical owner, paying several months ahead of time is not a big deal as long as you have a good rental contract.

You can save a lot of money going outside the traditional touristy areas of Palermo and Recoleta which I agree are the two nicest neighborhoods for living and very central but Buenos Aires has a lot of great neighborhoods. You can save a lot of money going off the beaten path and they are still wonderful for living. You can see a little summary of each neighborhood here:

BuySellBA

Don't buy real estate in Buenos Aires without knowing all of the laws, ins and outs and all the possible pitfalls.

buysellba.com

Finding good architects are not always the easiest but I have done over 100 renovations as well as complete builds of luxury houses and had good people. I even used the same architect to build my house when I bought land in Punta del Este, Uruguay. There are good people out there. Feel free to DM me and I can give you a referral for good people.

Nordelta is a beautiful area but I'd say be careful as it's not really a liquid market. Less demand for property purchases out there so I know some people that bought really nice places and when they want to sell it's difficult. Just keep that in mind. Generally NO ONE is accepting low ball offers of 25% to 30% lower than ask. That just isn't happening in this market place. Demand has picked up.

Yes Nordelta is a great area / resale can be a problem if you want to sell in a hurry. But when the markets are normal you will certainly recover your investment.

We live in Haras Santa Maria , in Loma Verde in Escobar. About a 25 minute car ride from Nordelta , but further away from the capital.

The rental market was very strong during the Pandemic in all gated communities but less so now / here you wold expect to pay around $ 1200 per month for a three bedroom house. Expensas can be a problem here and in most gated communities / we are now looking at $ 300 per month here / that includes security , golf ,tennis and water.

 

[James Bond]

Utility bills tend to be in the name of the original owner/tenant . It can be a real hassle to change the names

In our current house which we own we have just finished changing the names / Electricity was quite easy ( Edenor) but Gas with Naturgy was areal hassle.

You can definitely get internet with just your passport. Or your landlord can do it and recharge you.

Same! My girlfriend has owned her apartment for a while and she only recently changed the electricity to her name as she needed a utility bill in her name for something she was doing for Spain. But gas it is still in the name of the original owner from decades ago. People generally don't care whos name it comes in.

Yes Nordelta is a great area / resale can be a problem if you want to sell in a hurry. But when the markets are normal you will certainly recover your investment.

We live in Haras Santa Maria , in Loma Verde in Escobar. About a 25 minute car ride from Nordelta , but further away from the capital.

The rental market was very strong during the Pandemic in all gated communities but less so now / here you wold expect to pay around $ 1200 per month for a three bedroom house. Expensas can be a problem here and in most gated communities / we are now looking at $ 300 per month here / that includes security , golf ,tennis and water.

Agree about Nordelta. Beautiful area with some amazing properties. Agreed about time frame for getting out when you want to sell. Can take a while. We have friends that had properties for sale for 3 years. They are in no hurry to sell with no mortgage but they aren't worried about not being able to get funds out. They have had offers for less but they will only sell if they get their magic asking price.

As noted by @GlasgowJohn the big bear now is the monthly expenses in Nordelta. They keep going up drastically now. And they say it will keep going up now.

 

[Oatmeal]

Yes Nordelta is a great area / resale can be a problem if you want to sell in a hurry. But when the markets are normal you will certainly recover your investment.

We live in Haras Santa Maria , in Loma Verde in Escobar. About a 25 minute car ride from Nordelta , but further away from the capital.

The rental market was very strong during the Pandemic in all gated communities but less so now / here you wold expect to pay around $ 1200 per month for a three bedroom house. Expensas can be a problem here and in most gated communities / we are now looking at $ 300 per month here / that includes security , golf ,tennis and water.

Yes Nordelta looks amazing, however Escobar is also very nice. This is from our initial search online. Question. Do you live there? How do you like it? How much longer from Escobar to CABA (vs Nordelta)? .. say to Belgrano for example? Looking at google map the travel time seems to be the same even though Escobar is much more north. Wondering if this is correct or just the way Escobar has better access to the highway?

As for the maintenance fee, I guess renting houses in this area will be the responsibility of the tenant? TBH We like the north of the capital but do want to be less than 1 hour drive to the capital. There are some groceries stores in Barrio Chino that we want to go to regularly. What is your opinion on Pilar?