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Apartment buying process confusing in Buenos Aires. Do I need to use the seller's realtor?

300% increase overnight? Wow that is nuts. I do have a few friends in Florida that tell me they can't get coverage there now. Some states have emergency coverage but even that isn't cheap. Seems crazy the amount of inflation in the USA too the last few years.

Speaking of insurance, what are the insurance rates like in Buenos Aires? I wouldn't think it would be too much as I didn't notice any big potential for natural disasters there. No tornados, hurricanes and all the construction I saw didn't use lumber. It was all concrete from what I can see and bricks. Anyone know what a policy would cost for a 1 bedroom place in BA?
Here in Argentina many people don't get insurance on their property. As you say not so many chances for problems. Some houses or ground floor units in Palermo and other areas have problems with flooding when we have heavy rain but not so common for problem. I don't have any insurance on my flat.
 
300% increase overnight? Wow that is nuts. I do have a few friends in Florida that tell me they can't get coverage there now. Some states have emergency coverage but even that isn't cheap. Seems crazy the amount of inflation in the USA too the last few years.

Speaking of insurance, what are the insurance rates like in Buenos Aires? I wouldn't think it would be too much as I didn't notice any big potential for natural disasters there. No tornados, hurricanes and all the construction I saw didn't use lumber. It was all concrete from what I can see and bricks. Anyone know what a policy would cost for a 1 bedroom place in BA?
Many locals don't bother with insurance coverage. As you mentioned @Uncle Wong there are not too may natural disasters here. As @Vero mentioned, flooding can be an issue in some low laying areas but typically a problem for ground floor units so insurance is a good idea for those units. I've always insured my places.

Fires are very rare in Buenos Aires. In 22 years of living and working in Buenos Aires, I've never seen a fire there. Probably the biggest risk is water damage if a pipe breaks in the building. It's a good idea to have insurance to cover repair. I have had insurance cover for repairs in an older apartment that I own in Recoleta. Some owners insure for theft of contents or to replace furniture/furnishings in the event of a fire.

Here is an example of a quote that one of my clients recently got. Keep in mind, if you're renting out your apartment with an Airbnb the price to insure it is higher because there is a greater risk of things like fires with people coming and going. This is for a one bedroom apartment in Palermo Soho with a value of about $175,000 USD. Monthly premium of 63,292 pesos (USD $46).

Insurance Quote..jpg
 
For many years I didn't bother with getting any homeowner's coverage at all. Like you all mentioned, there aren't too many chances for issues here. But one of my friends in her building had a huge plumbing leak and although the building had some basic insurance, it didn't fully pay for all the stuff that got damaged. After that I got a basic policy that covers me for water damage and fire. I pay about $385 dollars per year but I was told the price of it will go up after it expires.
 
For many years I didn't bother with getting any homeowner's coverage at all. Like you all mentioned, there aren't too many chances for issues here. But one of my friends in her building had a huge plumbing leak and although the building had some basic insurance, it didn't fully pay for all the stuff that got damaged. After that I got a basic policy that covers me for water damage and fire. I pay about $385 dollars per year but I was told the price of it will go up after it expires.
I just got my policy renewal and for a 3 bedroom apartment I am paying about 100% more than I was before. It is about $735 dollars at current exchange rate. Like everything else, the prices has jumped up.
 
Thank you all again for all this precious information. It is good to know the process isn't just frustrating for me.
Much of the HOA monthly expenses will depend on how many amenities there are in the building and if they have a full time doorman and security 24/7. Buildings that have 24/7 security and doormen and pools, gyms, etc. are more expensive. Buildings that don't have these things are more affordable. Also, keep in mind with inflation, monthly expenses have really gone up this past year.

In the past, even though the peso amount was going up, in USD terms it wasn't really going up but many feel like the peso is artificially overvalued right now. I believe that the blue dollar should be much higher than it is. I would have to believe that next year the blue dollar will be higher but no one knows for sure.

Below is the monthly expense for a 1 bedroom apartment in Palermo Hollywood. About 60 sq. meters and the building has doorman, 24/7 security around the clock, pool, sauna, gym. You can see how much the expense has gone up every month of this year.


August 2024 : 337,326

July 2024: 276,896

June 2024: 216,768 pesos

May 2024: 188,076 pesos

April 2024: 186,015 pesos

March 2024: 131,454 pesos

February 2024 125,854 pesos

January 2024: 125,018 pesos
Thank you @earlyretirement for this breakdown. Something I wanted to point out is that on 3 apartments in a row on the Zonaprop website the realtors have used incorrect actual prices. I didn't realize the expenses could jump up so quickly. When I saw this post I asked if the listed monthly condo fee was correct and the realtor confirmed it was. But my realtor asked the doorman of the building if he could share expenses and we found out that the listed price on Zonaprop was totally inaccurate. It was about 1/3 of the true price. So beware.
 
Thank you all again for all this precious information. It is good to know the process isn't just frustrating for me.

Thank you @earlyretirement for this breakdown. Something I wanted to point out is that on 3 apartments in a row on the Zonaprop website the realtors have used incorrect actual prices. I didn't realize the expenses could jump up so quickly. When I saw this post I asked if the listed monthly condo fee was correct and the realtor confirmed it was. But my realtor asked the doorman of the building if he could share expenses and we found out that the listed price on Zonaprop was totally inaccurate. It was about 1/3 of the true price. So beware.
This is a good point. When I was buying my apartment, not only was the monthly expenses totally off but they also listed the apartment as bigger than it actually was. When you get to the offer stage you will want to make sure the sq. meters match up with the actual title deed.
 
Thank you all again for all this precious information. It is good to know the process isn't just frustrating for me.

Thank you @earlyretirement for this breakdown. Something I wanted to point out is that on 3 apartments in a row on the Zonaprop website the realtors have used incorrect actual prices. I didn't realize the expenses could jump up so quickly. When I saw this post I asked if the listed monthly condo fee was correct and the realtor confirmed it was. But my realtor asked the doorman of the building if he could share expenses and we found out that the listed price on Zonaprop was totally inaccurate. It was about 1/3 of the true price. So beware.
You're welcome @tootsi.

Some realtors just flat out and lie on the listing information on Zonaprop or other portals. Some don't want to show the actual expenses for fear it will drive away buyers so they use a fake lower price. Yet, other times if the property has been for sale for a while, they will initially list it at the original price but it won't get updated so the information is outdated.

Also, to @Betsy Ross 's point she is correct that many times the actual size will be exaggerated on the listing. Funny how they never make the mistake of listing smaller vs. larger size. Once you get seriously interested, you should ask for a copy of the latest month's or previous month's HOA bill and you can see exactly how much the bill is. You can also see the general "financial health" of the owner's in the building. You can see if any of the owners are behind on their expenses. It should show if there are any owners that are late paying.

And of course, once you get to the offer stage, I'd recommend that the offer is conditional on it passing an inspection. Part of that inspection process is you will get a to scale floor plan of the property with the measurements. Owner's typically don't want to show you a copy of the title deed until you already make an offer but you can ask them to show a copy with the owner's name blocked out for privacy.

On the property inspection you will get to-scale floor plans for the entire apartment. Example below.

Screenshot 2024-08-30 at 11.45.35 AM.jpg

Here is a thread where you can see a copy of the typical monthly HOA bill for an apartment in Buenos Aires.

 
Wow! Thank you. All of this is super helpful. Can I ask @earlyretirement what is the best time to get the inspection? Do I need to make a formal offer first? Or at what point would the inspection be performed? Super helpful advice on asking to see the actual monthly bill. That is amazing they show such detail on it. Thank you.
Typically when making an offer (reserva) it's wise to make the offer conditional on it passing a property inspection by an architect certifying there are no issues with the property. Also, if you plan to rent out the property on Airbnb it may also be a good idea to make it contingent on short-term rentals not being prohibited in the HOA rules. Some buildings expressively prohibit short-term rentals. So it's a good idea to put those two contingencies in an offer.

Some owners and their listing agents may not want to accept the offer of it passing the inspection. So many times they will ask that you do the inspection first and then make the offer afterwards. If they won't allow you to do an inspection it typically means they are hiding something. Typically they won't take it off the market until all contingencies are removed. You can have your Escribano that you will use to assist you with the purchase review the HOA rules to make sure that short-term rentals are not prohibited.
 
Typically when making an offer (reserva) it's wise to make the offer conditional on it passing a property inspection by an architect certifying there are no issues with the property. Also, if you plan to rent out the property on Airbnb it may also be a good idea to make it contingent on short-term rentals not being prohibited in the HOA rules. Some buildings expressively prohibit short-term rentals. So it's a good idea to put those two contingencies in an offer.

Some owners and their listing agents may not want to accept the offer of it passing the inspection. So many times they will ask that you do the inspection first and then make the offer afterwards. If they won't allow you to do an inspection it typically means they are hiding something. Typically they won't take it off the market until all contingencies are removed. You can have your Escribano that you will use to assist you with the purchase review the HOA rules to make sure that short-term rentals are not prohibited.
That is how it was for me when I bought. They didn't want to make a conditional offer. They let me get an architect in to check everything before the offer. I wasn't going to rent out my apartment but that's a smart point to check the building HOA rules if you want to rent it out.
 
Thank you all again for all this precious information. It is good to know the process isn't just frustrating for me.

Thank you @earlyretirement for this breakdown. Something I wanted to point out is that on 3 apartments in a row on the Zonaprop website the realtors have used incorrect actual prices. I didn't realize the expenses could jump up so quickly. When I saw this post I asked if the listed monthly condo fee was correct and the realtor confirmed it was. But my realtor asked the doorman of the building if he could share expenses and we found out that the listed price on Zonaprop was totally inaccurate. It was about 1/3 of the true price. So beware.
I wonder why they don't just list accurate details? It's annoying. I looked at a few units when I was in BA and some listings online had inaccurate information like age of the building. I didn't want to get anything that was too old so I was looking at some newer buildings but sometimes they would list the building was new when it was not. I don't understand why they don't just publish accurate information? Do they think people aren't going to find out?

Or maybe they are just doing a bait and switch to try to get them to see it. That part was annoying!

Also, you can tell how lazy some of the realtors are because some of the listings would be a new construction that was supposed to be done in 2024 and they would still have photos up with a banner saying, "Coming February 2023" and it wasn't done yet they wouldn't even change the photos or banner showing it's extremely late. It doesn't seem like they even care how they market.
 
Also, you can tell how lazy some of the realtors are because some of the listings would be a new construction that was supposed to be done in 2024 and they would still have photos up with a banner saying, "Coming February 2023" and it wasn't done yet they wouldn't even change the photos or banner showing it's extremely late. It doesn't seem like they even care how they market.
@Todd brings up a great point and I wonder if this has something to do with it.
It seems like the realtors here don't have much hustle. They are happy if you know exactly what you're looking for or are just contacting them about a specific listing but I had a falling out with that realtor after I switched the search from older properties to new construction. She got angry because some developers only shared 1% of the commission and she wanted me to make up the difference. I didn't think I should have to do that as the developers were still charging me 4%.
I recall most of the fake or repetitive listings were for new construction. Perhaps it's realtors putting up false or inaccurate listings, especially of new construction to dissuade some buyers and focus their search to older properties where they make a higher commission. Who knows or it could just be one of those, this is Argentina thingy.
 
@Todd brings up a great point and I wonder if this has something to do with it.

I recall most of the fake or repetitive listings were for new construction. Perhaps it's realtors putting up false or inaccurate listings, especially of new construction to dissuade some buyers and focus their search to older properties where they make a higher commission. Who knows or it could just be one of those, this is Argentina thingy.
Yes that has been my experience about the fake and multiple listings for the same units. My girlfriend says that it's always been chaotic here and the realtors are mostly all bad. Her family owns some apartments that they were doing Airbnbs because they didn't want to rent them out with the old laws as that didn't make sense. But with rising HOA fees and being slower now with tourism they switched to long term rentals.

Didn't you buy an apartment here @FuturoBA? I think I remember you said you bought a place in Palermo. Is it all done? Are you renting it out? If so, how are rentals going? Is it as expected? I met a few locals that have Airbnb's and they said this has been the worst and slowest winters they ever dealt with.
 
@Todd brings up a great point and I wonder if this has something to do with it.

I recall most of the fake or repetitive listings were for new construction. Perhaps it's realtors putting up false or inaccurate listings, especially of new construction to dissuade some buyers and focus their search to older properties where they make a higher commission. Who knows or it could just be one of those, this is Argentina thingy.
When I was looking many years ago they had multiple listings back then too. I'm not sure if it was some scam more than just owner's giving multiple realtors permission to list it. One of the apartments I looked at had two listings. Really poor quality photos that were taken with a phone for both listings. I couldn't understand how a realtor wouldn't pay for professional photos.

I contacted both listings just because I wanted to see if one was a scam. But they were both authorized by the owner. The crazy thing was one of the listings had a higher price. Strange the realtor wouldn't even keep the price the same as the other listing.
 
When I was looking many years ago they had multiple listings back then too. I'm not sure if it was some scam more than just owner's giving multiple realtors permission to list it. One of the apartments I looked at had two listings. Really poor quality photos that were taken with a phone for both listings. I couldn't understand how a realtor wouldn't pay for professional photos.

I contacted both listings just because I wanted to see if one was a scam. But they were both authorized by the owner. The crazy thing was one of the listings had a higher price. Strange the realtor wouldn't even keep the price the same as the other listing.
:ROFLMAO: That seems crazy to me. Seems counter productive to let two different realtors list your property at different prices.
 
Yes that has been my experience about the fake and multiple listings for the same units. My girlfriend says that it's always been chaotic here and the realtors are mostly all bad. Her family owns some apartments that they were doing Airbnbs because they didn't want to rent them out with the old laws as that didn't make sense. But with rising HOA fees and being slower now with tourism they switched to long term rentals.

Didn't you buy an apartment here @FuturoBA? I think I remember you said you bought a place in Palermo. Is it all done? Are you renting it out? If so, how are rentals going? Is it as expected? I met a few locals that have Airbnb's and they said this has been the worst and slowest winters they ever dealt with.
Yeah my place is in Palermo and I went the monthly rental route. Initially I planned to move down there around this time right now, but pushing it back 6-9 months and wasn't worried about optimizing profit. They were already thin and even more so with increasing inflation and place booked til end of the year.
 
When I was looking many years ago they had multiple listings back then too. I'm not sure if it was some scam more than just owner's giving multiple realtors permission to list it. One of the apartments I looked at had two listings. Really poor quality photos that were taken with a phone for both listings. I couldn't understand how a realtor wouldn't pay for professional photos.

I contacted both listings just because I wanted to see if one was a scam. But they were both authorized by the owner. The crazy thing was one of the listings had a higher price. Strange the realtor wouldn't even keep the price the same as the other listing.
I'll never understand the poor quality photos, even if they weren't professionally taken at least don't make it look like a monkey took them -photos at odd angles, up-close random part of cabinet, or rooms that they didn't even bother to clean.

I guess that's a big part of it, lack of professionalism. If sellers don't care enough to show off their place in the best light, they probably don't care enough to remember what they told one listing agent vs another how to price it.
 
Yeah my place is in Palermo and I went the monthly rental route. Initially I planned to move down there around this time right now, but pushing it back 6-9 months and wasn't worried about optimizing profit. They were already thin and even more so with increasing inflation and place booked til end of the year.
Congrats! If you bought last year or beginning of this year you are already probably up 10% on value. Crazy how quickly prices are going up. Monthly rentals route is probably not bad to go. Guaranteed income for a few months vs. sitting empty until high season starts. Since you bought, how much has your monthly expenses gone up? In most of my girlfriend's properties they have almost tripled in less than a year.

I am trying to figure out if that type of inflation will slow down or will keep going up. I guess still very affordable compared to the States but still makes me wonder how people here on peso salaries can cope with it.
I'll never understand the poor quality photos, even if they weren't professionally taken at least don't make it look like a monkey took them -photos at odd angles, up-close random part of cabinet, or rooms that they didn't even bother to clean.

I guess that's a big part of it, lack of professionalism. If sellers don't care enough to show off their place in the best light, they probably don't care enough to remember what they told one listing agent vs another how to price it.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Too funny! Yes that is very true. These days most smart phones take great quality photos. It's almost like they are taking horrible photos on purpose. Like you mentioned, strange angles or just photos of the cabinets or something. I couldn't take worse photos if I tried yet they are trying to sell an apartment like that.

Several times I have gone to appointments and the listing agent will be late. Not just 5-10 minutes. Sometimes 30 minutes late! Very spoiled by Redfin back home. I will never complain about American realtors again!
 
I'll never understand the poor quality photos, even if they weren't professionally taken at least don't make it look like a monkey took them -photos at odd angles, up-close random part of cabinet, or rooms that they didn't even bother to clean.

I guess that's a big part of it, lack of professionalism. If sellers don't care enough to show off their place in the best light, they probably don't care enough to remember what they told one listing agent vs another how to price it.
@FuturoBA you are giving me bad memories of my property search years ago. I thought that things would have improved since then but it sounds like things are still the same. My friend is looking now and she said that it is easier for her to look at properties on Remax's website at least all the properties are genuine so far. But I don't understand how Remax can't have any listing standards.

For example, my friend sent me this listing. How many damn photos does one person need of the crappy off center photos of the kitchen cabinets? Are properties really this expensive now? This is a $302,000 for a 64 sq. meter apartment. Sure there is a garage space but that should only be like $25,000. Are prices really that expensive now?

crap.jpg

cabinets.jpg

cabinets2.jpg

 
That listing is crazy! This is what I don't understand. In what world does it make sense to list almost the first 20 photos of that little kitchen? Photos off center. And I doubt the monthly expenses are only 90,000 pesos with 24/7 security guards and pool. No way that one bedroom apartment is worth $302,000 dollars. A good example of some of the things you guys are talking about in this thread with fake HOA fee amount, bad photos, etc.
 
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