Apartment Rental Apartment for a Newbie

[Benny1]

Hi all,

I'm looking to move to Buenos Aires with my family (4 people in all) and I'm looking for a 3-4 bedroom apartment to rent. I have a (fairly) generous budget.

After looking online, what occurs to me is that there is no comprehensive database of apartments in the way that you might find in the UK (Rightmove) or Spain (Idealista).

Those databases that do exist tend to feature poor photography and apartments that have bathrooms and kitchens that look like they were installed in the 1970's.

Would anybody be able to point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Dominic

 

[earlyretirement]

Hi all,

I'm looking to move to Buenos Aires with my family (4 people in all) and I'm looking for a 3-4 bedroom apartment to rent. I have a (fairly) generous budget.

After looking online, what occurs to me is that there is no comprehensive database of apartments in the way that you might find in the UK (Rightmove) or Spain (Idealista).

Those databases that do exist tend to feature poor photography and apartments that have bathrooms and kitchens that look like they were installed in the 1970's.

Would anybody be able to point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Dominic

Use Airbnb search filters. They are VERY powerful. However, just be warned there isn't that much inventory. My places stay fully booked. The biggest issue you will have is there is almost NO long term rental availability so plan ahead!!

A nice 3-4 bedroom is going to cost you quite a bit of money.

Good luck. I'd stick with Airbnb.

 

[Alby]

Hi all,

I'm looking to move to Buenos Aires with my family (4 people in all) and I'm looking for a 3-4 bedroom apartment to rent. I have a (fairly) generous budget.

After looking online, what occurs to me is that there is no comprehensive database of apartments in the way that you might find in the UK (Rightmove) or Spain (Idealista).

Those databases that do exist tend to feature poor photography and apartments that have bathrooms and kitchens that look like they were installed in the 1970's.

Would anybody be able to point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Dominic

When you say "move to Buenos Aires", do you mean come here permanently or just for a few months?

 

[earlyretirement]

When you say "move to Buenos Aires", do you mean come here permanently or just for a few months?

I agree. Also, reach out to LARGE and established real estate companies. They will have a few pocket listings of nice properties for foreigners (NOT locals) that are on yearly basis or 2 year in US dollars. But most of these are NOT furnished and furnishing is a pain.

So your best bet is a large property manager on Airbnb that might have stuff in the pipeline for when you arrive and maybe you can time it right. I'm not sure how long you are coming but just plan ahead. The LAST thing you want to do is move around from week to week or month to month with a family of 4.

To give you perspective although I own 2 properties in BA, they are both smaller and I have a family of 5 people (wife and 3 kids). I rented a HOUSE in Palermo but the owner at the last minute 2 weeks before arrival tells me that he decided to renovate it. So I got stuck trying to find something for my 2 MONTH trip this summer.

It was a disaster. Although I have friends that between them manage 200+ properties in Buenos Aires, not a single one had 2 month availability for the entire stay. I was willing to pay top $ too but they were all booked. I had to move around between the 2 months and it ruined my vacation.

So just take what I'm saying and plan ahead. GREAT that you have a big budget as you will need it. But plan ahead and try to look on Airbnb for large property managers. You can see because they will manage multiple properties.

Buenos Aires as a cheap ex-pat hang out are mostly over . Those that don't own should buy now while prices are cheap. I just bought another 2 bedroom new construction today. Done in August 2024.

 

[Redpossum]

Hi all,

I'm looking to move to Buenos Aires with my family (4 people in all) and I'm looking for a 3-4 bedroom apartment to rent. I have a (fairly) generous budget.

After looking online, what occurs to me is that there is no comprehensive database of apartments in the way that you might find in the UK (Rightmove) or Spain (Idealista).

Those databases that do exist tend to feature poor photography and apartments that have bathrooms and kitchens that look like they were installed in the 1970's.

Would anybody be able to point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Dominic

That's because they were installed in the 1970's

Welcome to Argentina

 

[earlyretirement]

That's because they were installed in the 1970's

Welcome to Argentina

Yep, so true. Most of the bathrooms and kitchens are old. Even on new construction it's not high quality. I would many times buy a BRAND new apartment and then demolish it just to renovate as the build quality was so poor. It's crazy to think about.

Also Dominic, what do you consider "generous"? Post and I'll look at some options. Most ex-pats definition of "generous" and mine are different. It's a totally subjective term.

 

[Benny1]

Thank you for all of your informative comments.

It looks like although Buenos Aires is a veritable bargain for the day-to-day stuff e.g. restaurants (especially when using Western Union for currency transfers), it falls behind for property rentals.

My budget is $US 2000 - 2500 monthly for a 3 - 4 bed in a decent area like Recoleta/Palermo/Belgrano. This would be for 3 months initially, but longer (12 months plus) if we like it in Buenos Aires.

I have seen a number of rentals at that price, but the quality isn't great and they do not seem much better than apartments advertised at 1K - 1.5K.

It seems that the quality does not really improve until you have about 6K a month to spend and that falls squarely outside my budget.

Any further info for decent 3 - 4 beds at the 2-2.5K rent level would be much appreciated!

 

[earlyretirement]

Thank you for all of your informative comments.

It looks like although Buenos Aires is a veritable bargain for the day-to-day stuff e.g. restaurants (especially when using Western Union for currency transfers), it falls behind for property rentals.

My budget is $US 2000 - 2500 monthly for a 3 - 4 bed in a decent area like Recoleta/Palermo/Belgrano. This would be for 3 months initially, but longer (12 months plus) if we like it in Buenos Aires.

I have seen a number of rentals at that price, but the quality isn't great and they do not seem much better than apartments advertised at 1K - 1.5K.

It seems that the quality does not really improve until you have about 6K a month to spend and that falls squarely outside my budget.

Any further info for decent 3 - 4 beds at the 2-2.5K rent level would be much appreciated!

You're welcome. Thanks for being so polite and detailed. Yes, it's still cheap for dining out and should be for a while. I think the thing that will be the most painful is the cost of living in rentals. That WILL go up and sharply I believe after the elections. It might take a Quarter or 2 to really start pumping up but I'm already seeing it. I charge on short term like $1,800 US per month on a 1 bedroom apartment in Recoleta. I can get it via short-term rentals but it's a hassle but I tack on like a $65 US cleaning fee to really protect against the 1-2 night rentals. I'm making over $2,000 a month on my Palermo Hollywood apartment and have since I purchased it in 2013. Pretty incredible since I purchased it for $130.000 US back then.

I don't actually think $2,000 to $2,500 is a "generous" amount on a short term rental for 4 bedrooms. I mean if I'm getting $1,700 on a nothing too special 1 bedroom Recoleta apartment. I'm not saying you can't find it but I don't think you should use the term "generous". That's not generous on 3/4 bedrooms. I'm just being honest.

There are a lot of sh*tty properties on the market so you might be able to find it. But you're running into a horrible situation of almost 0 long-term rentals and a sh*t ton are going to have their leases end throughout the rest of 2023 so that's going to put pressure on the Airbnbs on the market. Literally my friends that all own hundreds of units don't have ANYTHING for 1 or 2 year leases.

Yeah, at least you know how that "generous" is relative and doesn't apply here for a luxury property. And prices will KEEP going up. Watch. I've never been wrong on Buenos Aires real estate trends the past 20 years.

 

[Alby]

Hi all,

I'm looking to move to Buenos Aires with my family (4 people in all) and I'm looking for a 3-4 bedroom apartment to rent. I have a (fairly) generous budget.

After looking online, what occurs to me is that there is no comprehensive database of apartments in the way that you might find in the UK (Rightmove) or Spain (Idealista).

Those databases that do exist tend to feature poor photography and apartments that have bathrooms and kitchens that look like they were installed in the 1970's.

Would anybody be able to point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Dominic

To quote the great Basil Fawtly:

"May I ask what you were expecting to see in a database of photos of Buenos Aires apartment kitchens? Sydney Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically..."

Barcelona it ain't.

 

[earlyretirement]

To quote the great Basil Fawtly:

"May I ask what you were expecting to see in a database of photos of Buenos Aires apartment kitchens? Sydney Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically..."

Barcelona it ain't.

Buenos Aires is NOT Barcelona but there are plenty of great properties. Look at all these properties that were amazing and on the short-term and long term market in Buenos Aires at one point or another.

They look pretty nice to me!

 

[Benny1]

As a comparator, take a look at this 3 bed, 2 bath 100m squared centrally air-conditioned apartment in a good area of Barcelona, which is considered to be an expensive City to live in.

https://www.idealista.com/en/inmueble/101980770/
Pristine condition with an enviable kitchen/bathroom set up - all for 2000 Euros. I found this within 5 minutes of searching on Idealista.

I am sensing that I would be lucky to find a similar apartment in Buenos Aires.

 

[earlyretirement]

As a comparator, take a look at this 3 bed, 2 bath 100m squared centrally air-conditioned apartment in a good area of Barcelona, which is considered to be an expensive City to live in.

https://www.idealista.com/en/inmueble/101980770/
Pristine condition with an enviable kitchen/bathroom set up - all for 2000 Euros. I found this within 5 minutes of searching on Idealista.

I am sensing that I would be lucky to find a similar apartment in Buenos Aires.

Barcelona has a functional Banking system, NO crazy long-term laws, sensible laws, stable currency, no 150% a year inflation. You're comparing apples with Tesla.

Prices have fallen 17 Quarters in a row. They have finally bottomed. Now they are going up. The rich get richer in Argentina. And the ex-pats that are renting get poorer. Most people that don't know Argentina can't figure it out. Ex-pats that come here when it's cheap need to lock in a good long term rate when they can. Or if you're on a limited budget or fixed pension, you better lock in a long-term lease now. Tourism is also going to be on the upswing. It may take a few quarters but it will happen. Then you're going to be competing with them as well.

The saving grace for ex-pats is I think the USA economy is in for a sh*t storm in 2024 and 2025. Commercial real estate is going to crash hard as ARM's reset. It's already happening. Small and medium banks are going to fold into FDIC protection. I believe this will cause a ripple in the economy so tourism will not be helped and I don't think Americans will be traveling much. They can't even afford to buy groceries now.

 

[Benny1]

What really irritates me is those bathrooms that have pretentious 'free-standing' wash basins where the water splashes all over you - oh and 'gold' bath taps - I've seen plenty of those in my Buenos Aires apartment search.

It would be refreshing to see herds of savvy bathroom and kitchen installers sweeping majestically across Barrio Norte - I imagine that anyone with those skills could do very well there.

 

[Alby]

What really irritates me is those bathrooms that have pretentious 'free-standing' wash basins where the water splashes all over you - oh and 'gold' bath taps - I've seen plenty of those in my Buenos Aires apartment search.

It would be refreshing to see herds of savvy bathroom and kitchen installers sweeping majestically across Barrio Norte - I imagine that anyone with those skills could do very well there.

It's partly cultural, I think. The cuisine is pretty ordinary here, in general. Home cooking isn't widely practised, certainly in Barrio Norte. The craze in many wealthier countries to install a fabulous kitchen and fill it with appliances (but never actually cook) has never caught on here (and it's probably not just the money issue). In Barrio Norte, I've several times had the experience of entering an apartment reasonably well-appointed in every way other than the kitchen, which is no better than the laundry. Culturally, I think are both regarded as work areas, not features.

 

[Benny1]

I take your point. I'm just looking for an inoffensive space to cook pasta in, but there are many in Battersea who think that a kitchen is just not a kitchen without a £50K refit, an Aga and an artisan bread maker. Somewhere along the way, values have become distorted.

 

[earlyretirement]

I take your point. I'm just looking for an inoffensive space to cook pasta in, but there are many in Battersea who think that a kitchen is just not a kitchen without a £50K refit, an Aga and an artisan bread maker. Somewhere along the way, values have become distorted.

Not really. Distorted? In Madrid and Barcelona and pretty much many other places in first world countries you can leverage and get mortgages. Argentina is one of the few places you have to literally arrange to bring fresh crisp $100 US bills to closing. It's very surreal and there is no free way to get cash there. NOTHING is easy in Argentina.

100% cash invested into those properties and renovations. Argentina is a beast of it's own. Most ex-pats coming to Buenos Aires or even living there for years don't really truly understand things. They just see cheapo steaks and meals and they don't really care about anything else. They don't care if BA burns around them and people are starving and have to leave it's shores. They just want a great "blue dollar". They don't give a rat's ass about Argentina or it's citizens. They are in it for them. It's ME, ME, ME. These are the people that will leave Argentina the quickest, IMHO.

 

[Benny1]

Paying for an apartment in 100 dollar bills? The bodyguarding sector must be booming, either that or people are handcuffing briefcases full of cash to their wrists.

 

[Benny1]

Remarkable. Reminds me of the archetypal image of a spiv who flies from London to Zurich to make a 'deposit', hoping to God that he isn't mugged or otherwise relieved of his briefcase along the way...

 

[earlyretirement]

Paying for an apartment in 100 dollar bills? The bodyguarding sector must be booming, either that or people are handcuffing briefcases full of cash to their wrists.

NO actually I purchased hundreds of millions of dollars worth of properties in Buenos Aires and typically it was me and my business partner carrying around cash in backpacks believe it or not. We didn't even trust the security transfer firms. We didn't trust ANY ONE. They had limited or NO insurance coverage at the time and so corrupt you had to worry about telling their friends so we'd carry it around in backpacks. It's CRAZY and unbelievable but true. I'm writing an autobiography on my life and has many crazy stories.

Maybe 10% of our transactions were with wire transfer when the seller was selling and could accept transfers from other foreign buyers. But even when the seller offered to allow the buyer to wire, the buyer often times had CASH under their mattress!

Very very surreal. So that's why when you see prices the way they are you really have to understand how difficult things are there. It's not as easy as it appears when you see the cheapo steaks and meals. Just imagine that property owner of the Airbnb paid $100 US bills sitting across from the buyer in almost all cases.

I've purchased real estate all over the world and I own real estate in many countries in Latin America. Even though in those markets they didn't have mortgages, I could still wire in a wire. Argentina is crazy!

And there is NO trust and faith in ANYONE. I once bought a building that I turned into a hotel. The seller of the building demanded cash!! The building was $3.5 million US dollars. The closing was in the basement of a large bank in Recoleta. We were literally in the basement and there were vacuum packed SEALED packages direct from the US Federal Reserve Bank. Guess what? The seller demanded to count all the cash! It took hours and hours. Many times they don't even trust money counters as bills can be bleached with $1 bills and reprinted. It will pass money counters as the paper is real. It will pass those markers too and the quality is really great!

So think of all these poor Airbnb owners that went through all of this. When you look at this, the prices you're paying on Airbnb are super cheap.

My friend owns a transport company that arranges to pick up cash from closings. He charges a set % to move the money. Well he went to a property closing and was transporting it. He rides a motorcycle. He has been doing this 20 years without problems. The other day for the first time he got robbed at gunpoint. Obviously either the buyer, the lawyer, accountant informed their thug friends that money was going to be transported. He got robbed of $225,000 US from the closing.

THESE are the type of things most Argentines buying/selling have to deal with.

 

[earlyretirement]

Take a look at vacation destinations for Argentina - https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/arg...ts-argentines-summer-vacations-in-doubt.phtml

If you think your "generous" budget will get you far. Prices in some areas are $2,000 to $11,000 US dollars per WEEK. I used to rent my house in Punta del Este for $8,000 US dollars per WEEK and it was only 3 bedrooms. I'm not talking about some mansion either. It was a nice high end luxury house about 5 blocks from the beach but nothing over the top. Completely renovated but not too big. It stayed full the entire season.

Remarkable considering I paid about $400,000 US dollars for the large lot of land, to build a brand new 2,500 sq. feet house and built a large outdoor pool. I grossed about $78,000 US dollars on only 3 months worth of rentals. You're not in Barcelona anymore Toto......