Newcomer Argentine rules regarding receival of foreign pension

[Russell]

Hello,
I'm currently weighing my options for the next phase of my life at 62 years old. I'm contemplating between emigrating to Argentina, retiring early and living off my pension, or adopting a lifestyle of moving between the European Economic Community (EEC) country where I currently reside and Buenos Aires while maintaining tax residency in my home country. The latter would necessitate continued work for at least two more years due to higher monthly costs in Europe.

As I analyze the pros and cons of each option, a significant advantage of emigration to Argentina is the comparatively lower cost of living. I believe I can comfortably manage with my employee pension, the future state pensions for my wife and me from our home country, and the Argentine pension my wife will receive from her past work in Argentina. Ideally, I'd like to receive my pension in Euros and convert it to Argentine pesos, possibly through services like Western Union.

However, I recently came across information in a Facebook group suggesting that foreign pensioners in Argentina may be required to have their foreign pensions deposited into an Argentine bank account and convert them to Argentine pesos at the official rate. I'm reaching out to see if anyone has knowledge or experience with receiving foreign pensions in Argentina after emigrating. Thanks in advance for any insights!

 

[Bro]

Too hard to predict. Everything is likely to change. Will there even be a blue rate? Dollarisation? Who knows....

 

[marianoc]

One thing that is always true about Argentina- Its constantly changing.
So while I have committed to Argentina, and we are currently on a pensionista visa, we did so because we love Argentina, not because its cheap. It is cheap, right now, in dollars or euros. And, most likely it will remain cheap compared to the Netherlands or the USA, but its not a poor third world country, and the cheapness factor is constantly shifting.
Its cheap because of the immensely complicated economy intertwined with 80 years of government policy, and how that interacts with foreign exchange rates, global economies, climate change, and local politics.
So dont expect it will remain unchanging.
I have seen fluctuations in dollar buying power, up and down, constantly during the 15 years we have been part time residents, and see no reason for that not to continue.

As far as the pension rules go, nobody knows.

 

[marianoc]

Also...The July government statement was extremely vague about how much money a pensionista must deposit, It specificed a peso amount, which has been changing monthly. we have been working with a lawyer, who is in the Immigrantes offices weekly, and there is no firm answer to any of these questions. And after the election, who knows.
Wait a few months, things may become more clear.
Right now, we are told pensionistas must deposit, by wire transfer or Western Union or similar, a specific amount of pesos in an argentine bank account monthly. There is no current rule about exchange rate, and they initially said both my wife and I had to deposit the same amount, then seemed to have changed and said, since I am technically a dependent on her application, only one person's monthly amount is required.
Again- no clarity at this time from the Argentine government.
For many many years, it was a quite small amount.
It looks like it may settle on the 5 times minimum salary, but who can say.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

@Russell this situation absolutely needs a lawyer retained...worth a few hundred Euros to know your tax liabilities, and certainty of Pensionista residencies!

i'm likely going to pay $500 to submit with Agustin Beauden, if you want to email him here and set-up a 60-min consult

agustinbeaudeanzinowicz@gmail.com

attached info from his practice (Dec2023 date), if it helps

 

[Scottishgaucho]

I receive my monthly UK State Pension paid directly into my Argentine bank account in Dollars. It gets converted from £ to $ before it even arrives in Argentina.

 

[Jenn]

I receive my monthly UK State Pension paid directly into my Argentine bank account in Dollars. It gets converted from £ to $ before it even arrives in Argentina.

Is this a US Dollar account @Scottishgaucho? It does not get pesofied does it?

 

[Scottishgaucho]

Is this a US Dollar account @Scottishgaucho? It does not get pesofied does it?

Yes it's a dollar account and it stays in dollars. When you withdraw them they give you dollars.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Yes it's a dollar account and it stays in dollars. When you withdraw them they give you dollars.

Thank you for that info. There is so much misinformation I hear about this issue. Were you ever scared Scottishgaucho about the government ever playing shenanigans with the USD? Under Milei I wouldn't worry about it but did you before?

 

[Scottishgaucho]

Thank you for that info. There is so much misinformation I hear about this issue. Were you ever scared Scottishgaucho about the government ever playing shenanigans with the USD? Under Milei I wouldn't worry about it but did you before?

Not worried at all. It seems state pensions are well covered by International Law. I had to provide the bank with proof that the dollar account was for a pension and still have to every month when the payment arrives in order for it be deposited. It's all easy and straightforward though.

 

[earlyretirement]

Not worried at all. It seems state pensions are well covered by International Law. I had to provide the bank with proof that the dollar account was for a pension and still have to every month when the payment arrives in order for it be deposited. It's all easy and straightforward though.

Yes this is exactly correct. My clients that are retired and with pensions do the same thing that you do @Scottishgaucho. I didn't know you have to go through that process each month but it's great to hear it's all straightforward and easy. I love hearing when things like this work as intended. Many times even when something is supposed to go smoothly it doesn't in Argentina.

 

[Russell]

Thank you to everyone who took the time to answer. I am stuck in a bit of a dilemma. I don't have a DNI or permanent residency. I did get a CDI tax ID number. I can't seem to open a bank account without having a DNI #. @Scottishgaucho can I ask who you opened a bank account with? Did you have a DNI already to open up your US dollar account? I have tried several banks and they insist I must have a DNI.

Also...The July government statement was extremely vague about how much money a pensionista must deposit, It specificed a peso amount, which has been changing monthly. we have been working with a lawyer, who is in the Immigrantes offices weekly, and there is no firm answer to any of these questions. And after the election, who knows.
Wait a few months, things may become more clear.
Right now, we are told pensionistas must deposit, by wire transfer or Western Union or similar, a specific amount of pesos in an argentine bank account monthly. There is no current rule about exchange rate, and they initially said both my wife and I had to deposit the same amount, then seemed to have changed and said, since I am technically a dependent on her application, only one person's monthly amount is required.
Again- no clarity at this time from the Argentine government.
For many many years, it was a quite small amount.
It looks like it may settle on the 5 times minimum salary, but who can say.

It is concerning that even your lawyer can't answer these questions. I read in some forums that the laws and rules are changing but @Scottishgaucho's post is reassuring but it sounds like he already has a DNI #. Has anyone used Celano law firm as I read about them in another post. What bank does Celano recommend to use if anyone has used them?

The process sounds a bit confusing with banks refusing to allow you to open an account without being at the precaria stage. If I am understanding this correctly I would need to wire in the funds from my pension in USD and then they let you know if your application is approved? What happens if it is not approved?

 

[Scottishgaucho]

Thank you to everyone who took the time to answer. I am stuck in a bit of a dilemma. I don't have a DNI or permanent residency. I did get a CDI tax ID number. I can't seem to open a bank account without having a DNI #. @Scottishgaucho can I ask who you opened a bank account with? Did you have a DNI already to open up your US dollar account? I have tried several banks and they insist I must have a DNI.


It is concerning that even your lawyer can't answer these questions. I read in some forums that the laws and rules are changing but @Scottishgaucho's post is reassuring but it sounds like he already has a DNI #. Has anyone used Celano law firm as I read about them in another post. What bank does Celano recommend to use if anyone has used them?

The process sounds a bit confusing with banks refusing to allow you to open an account without being at the precaria stage. If I am understanding this correctly I would need to wire in the funds from my pension in USD and then they let you know if your application is approved? What happens if it is not approved?

Hi Russell....your situation is different to mine which is likely why it turned out to be straightforward for me. I got a lot of info from the GovUK site (state pension) which explains how expats should claim their state pension. I imagine the US has similar. I'd lived here with my Argentine wife for many years before I became of age to apply for the UK state pension so already had my DNI. Having my DNI I suspect allowed me to open a Dollar bank account in the first place.
The bank I use is the BBVA where Mariano couldn't have been more helpful and made the whole process easy to understand. He speaks very good English which helped as my English speaking wife is fed up translating for me. 😁 I did have to obtain proof that it was only my pension I wanted to open the account for. I'm not sure if I could use it for any other purpose than that.

 

[earlyretirement]

Hi Russell....your situation is different to mine which is likely why it turned out to be straightforward for me. I got a lot of info from the GovUK site (state pension) which explains how expats should claim their state pension. I imagine the US has similar. I'd lived here with my Argentine wife for many years before I became of age to apply for the UK state pension so already had my DNI. Having my DNI I suspect allowed me to open a Dollar bank account in the first place.
The bank I use is the BBVA where Mariano couldn't have been more helpful and made the whole process easy to understand. He speaks very good English which helped as my English speaking wife is fed up translating for me. 😁 I did have to obtain proof that it was only my pension I wanted to open the account for. I'm not sure if I could use it for any other purpose than that.

This is great info. I believe the part that many people get stuck at is many banks refuse to open an account without a DNI. I read in an old post that @Darksider415 did it but I forget which bank he said he opened it at.

Here is a post outlining that you have to have a bank account first - https://www.expatsba.com/threads/getting-a-cdi-in-argentina-to-buy-a-car.1126/post-7344

Everything is much easier when you already have a DNI but things can be very painful when you don't have one yet.

 

[Scottishgaucho]

Everything is much easier when you already have a DNI but things can be very painful when you don't have one yet.

Indeed. 👍

Should also add. The BBVA usually charge a $US75 fee for deposits in dollars. However as it's a state pension financial law doesn't allow them to do this. They only charge a $14 processing fee from the total which seems fair to me.

 

[BuySellBA]

Indeed. 👍

Should also add. The BBVA usually charge a $US75 fee for deposits in dollars. However as it's a state pension financial law doesn't allow them to do this. They only charge a $14 processing fee from the total which seems fair to me.

This seems like a really great and fair fee. That is wonderful to know that state pension financial law doesn't allow them to charge any purchases besides the processing fee. I'm surprised the banks don't come up with a $!?X "processing fee".

Argentine banks are amongst the worst in the world.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

I am stuck in a bit of a dilemma. I don't have a DNI or permanent residency. I did get a CDI tax ID number. I can't seem to open a bank account without having a DNI

for those in this situation, the only option for an Argentine bank account that i was successful in was Banco Nacion, opening a Peso (Ahorros/Savings) account using a Precaria and my USA passport (having the CDI number seemed to help; not sure if it's necessary). all of this was done in Cordoba at the Alto Alberdi branch. that being said, without a DNI# you can't use the BNA+ app, use MercadoPago or MercadoLibre, get a phone factura plan, etc. - this was a requirement from Migraciones for me to deposit 1.2 million Pesos to show my Rentista residency was legit.

Banking - Bank Account With Just a Passport and CDI Number (No DNI)

Hi guys, I have a friend who is working on his residency but he's currently here just on a tourist visa. He is going to start making some investments and he needs to get a bank account here. Does anyone know of a local bank who will open an account for someone who only has a CDI number and a US...

www.expatsba.com

and to resurrect this Feb2024 thread, i want to concur:

Argentine banks are amongst the worst in the world.

...Argentina's financial setup right now is still very much broken. everyone wants USD physical $100 bills, but there is no way for anyone to get them (unless you're here already with a DNI, USD account with Galicia/etc., and can withdraw when certain ATMs have Dollars). for 99% of us and especially new arrivals, bringing cash on the plane is the main option, or trying for dollar bills in Chile/Uruguay, or paying a cueva a large commission and trusting them to actually give you cash after the Wire Transfer completes.

i totally understand why earlyretirement succeeds in Argentina (and Mexico, although RIP to that country with its communist president now...Brazil also) because he provides a service that really doesn't exist. if someone can solve the problem of getting USD in and out of Argentina's disconnected banking system, with 1% fees or less, and not needing to trust strangers in illegal mafia networks, they will be rich!

of course, Bitcoin and other self-custody cryptocurrencies already solved this problem of transferring wealth, but the volatility is still too high, and the tech is very 'Wild West' when it comes to maintaining your own Crypto wallet (you lose it, it's gone, no one can get it back).

i think the next 3 years are going to be full of interesting solutions for problems like this.

2016: https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu...ontext=international_immersion_program_papers
Apr2022: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789
May2022: https://www.thedialogue.org/analysis/will-cryptoassets-disrupt-remittances-in-latin-america/
Aug2022: https://www.freethink.com/hard-tech/crypto-argentina-black-market-cash

 

[import export]

for those in this situation, the only option for an Argentine bank account that i was successful in was Banco Nacion, opening a Peso (Ahorros/Savings) account using a Precaria and my USA passport (having the CDI number seemed to help; not sure if it's necessary). all of this was done in Cordoba at the Alto Alberdi branch. that being said, without a DNI# you can't use the BNA+ app, use MercadoPago or MercadoLibre, get a phone factura plan, etc. - this was a requirement from Migraciones for me to deposit 1.2 million Pesos to show my Rentista residency was legit.

Banking - Bank Account With Just a Passport and CDI Number (No DNI)

Hi guys, I have a friend who is working on his residency but he's currently here just on a tourist visa. He is going to start making some investments and he needs to get a bank account here. Does anyone know of a local bank who will open an account for someone who only has a CDI number and a US...

www.expatsba.com

and to resurrect this Feb2024 thread, i want to concur:


...Argentina's financial setup right now is still very much broken. everyone wants USD physical $100 bills, but there is no way for anyone to get them (unless you're here already with a DNI, USD account with Galicia/etc., and can withdraw when certain ATMs have Dollars). for 99% of us and especially new arrivals, bringing cash on the plane is the main option, or trying for dollar bills in Chile/Uruguay, or paying a cueva a large commission and trusting them to actually give you cash after the Wire Transfer completes.

i totally understand why earlyretirement succeeds in Argentina (and Mexico, although RIP to that country with its communist president now...Brazil also) because he provides a service that really doesn't exist. if someone can solve the problem of getting USD in and out of Argentina's disconnected banking system, with 1% fees or less, and not needing to trust strangers in illegal mafia networks, they will be rich!

of course, Bitcoin and other self-custody cryptocurrencies already solved this problem of transferring wealth, but the volatility is still too high, and the tech is very 'Wild West' when it comes to maintaining your own Crypto wallet (you lose it, it's gone, no one can get it back).

i think the next 3 years are going to be full of interesting solutions for problems like this.

2016: https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu...ontext=international_immersion_program_papers
Apr2022: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789
May2022: https://www.thedialogue.org/analysis/will-cryptoassets-disrupt-remittances-in-latin-america/
Aug2022: https://www.freethink.com/hard-tech/crypto-argentina-black-market-cash

The banks here are terrible. I don't know how much they have improved with Milei but I would guess they are still terrible.

Everyone uses some cueva but there is a big trust factor and you have to hope they do not exit scam or have problems with the government and fees are very high. Fees can be as high as 5% right now getting physical bills to Argentina. Western Union is reliable for getting pesos but you still have to turn around and buy USD with it if you need dollars. Not efficient or cheap.

Agree with the risk on using crypto. It is easy to get funds here but have to deal with the high commissions. If I am not mistaken earlyretirement has been around in Argentina since the corralito. Anyone that has navigated multiple governments/Presidents here successfully will know how to get things done.

It doesn't sound like they are getting rid of currency controls any time soon.

 

[Johnny]

for those in this situation, the only option for an Argentine bank account that i was successful in was Banco Nacion, opening a Peso (Ahorros/Savings) account using a Precaria and my USA passport (having the CDI number seemed to help; not sure if it's necessary). all of this was done in Cordoba at the Alto Alberdi branch. that being said, without a DNI# you can't use the BNA+ app, use MercadoPago or MercadoLibre, get a phone factura plan, etc. - this was a requirement from Migraciones for me to deposit 1.2 million Pesos to show my Rentista residency was legit.

Banking - Bank Account With Just a Passport and CDI Number (No DNI)

Hi guys, I have a friend who is working on his residency but he's currently here just on a tourist visa. He is going to start making some investments and he needs to get a bank account here. Does anyone know of a local bank who will open an account for someone who only has a CDI number and a US...

www.expatsba.com

and to resurrect this Feb2024 thread, i want to concur:


...Argentina's financial setup right now is still very much broken. everyone wants USD physical $100 bills, but there is no way for anyone to get them (unless you're here already with a DNI, USD account with Galicia/etc., and can withdraw when certain ATMs have Dollars). for 99% of us and especially new arrivals, bringing cash on the plane is the main option, or trying for dollar bills in Chile/Uruguay, or paying a cueva a large commission and trusting them to actually give you cash after the Wire Transfer completes.

i totally understand why earlyretirement succeeds in Argentina (and Mexico, although RIP to that country with its communist president now...Brazil also) because he provides a service that really doesn't exist. if someone can solve the problem of getting USD in and out of Argentina's disconnected banking system, with 1% fees or less, and not needing to trust strangers in illegal mafia networks, they will be rich!

of course, Bitcoin and other self-custody cryptocurrencies already solved this problem of transferring wealth, but the volatility is still too high, and the tech is very 'Wild West' when it comes to maintaining your own Crypto wallet (you lose it, it's gone, no one can get it back).

i think the next 3 years are going to be full of interesting solutions for problems like this.

2016: https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu...ontext=international_immersion_program_papers
Apr2022: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60912789
May2022: https://www.thedialogue.org/analysis/will-cryptoassets-disrupt-remittances-in-latin-america/
Aug2022: https://www.freethink.com/hard-tech/crypto-argentina-black-market-cash

Dealing with cash in Argentina is a royal pain. I bought an apartment in Palermo last year and fortunately I was able to just make a USD wire to the developer's account. @earlyretirement helped structure that so I did not have to pay any fees. But I had to wire down cash for stamp taxes and my apartment is almost done and I am furnishing it and I had to send down about $25,000 dollars to furnish and decorate my property and only way to do it is with private cuevas. I had to pay 4% getting it to Argentina. But it went smoothly.

I don't know how things can function like that. I didn't worry because I used his company but I don't understand how this is normal. The government needs to fix this. I couldn't open up a bank account there without getting residency there.

@StatusNomadicus the President in Mexico might be a commie but at least things the banking system in Mexico is similar to the United States. I purchased two properties in Mexico and it was effortless and just wired the the funds at closing. No extra fees or hassles. It was simple. I have not seen a banking system like Argentina has with these currency controls.

 

[Shoemaker]

for those in this situation, the only option for an Argentine bank account that i was successful in was Banco Nacion, opening a Peso (Ahorros/Savings) account using a Precaria and my USA passport (having the CDI number seemed to help; not sure if it's necessary). all of this was done in Cordoba at the Alto Alberdi branch. that being said, without a DNI# you can't use the BNA+ app, use MercadoPago or MercadoLibre, get a phone factura plan, etc. - this was a requirement from Migraciones for me to deposit 1.2 million Pesos to show my Rentista residency was legit.

Not all of the offices of Banco Nacion will allow the opening up of a Peso account without a DNI. Many in CABA won't allow it. There seems to be no consistent law on it. Maybe Cordoba is easier than CABA. We know some that were able to open up a bank account only to have them closed down earlier this year because they didn't have a DNI. They opened up with CDI before.

I can't understand why this should be so difficult to open up a bank account here. @StatusNomadicus were you able to open up a bank account before you heard your precaria? I assume not.

If you are wiring in money for anything and not using WU or some official source just make sure they have been doing business for many years. Our friend used a cueva that her Airbnb owner recommended to wire in some cash. They wired it to a US bank account and it was supposed to cost them 3.5% but after they made the wire they said it went up to 6%. You are at the mercy of these people. It wasn't too big of an account. Only a few thousand dollars but they wonder what would have happened if they were sending in a large amount. These are not regulated transactions. No one will protect you if things go wrong. We heard of cases where tourists wired in and did not get the money. There is no where you can go to make things right.