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Best Move I Ever Made

daveholman

Well-known member
I moved here in February. I really don't understand the negativity of some people in this forum. Buenos Aires is a beautiful city, with lots to offer, and it is CHEAP. I don't care what anyone else says, most people's biggest budget item is housing, and I am paying less to rent an apartment in Recoleta than it cost me in New Mexico to own my house outright with utilities, taxes and insurance.

Food at the grocery store is, for the most part, inexpensive. Yes, a few things like olive oil are ridiculously overpriced. But other things, like meat and produce are less than the US. I spend around $100 a week for groceries, eating at home 5 days a week and going out to dinner twice a week. Dining out is fairly expensive. I'd say comparable to the US.

Transportation is another big expense for most people. In the US I owned my car, and STILL paid $200-300 month for gas, insurance, etc. Here I am averaging around $15 month on buses and subte, and getting in some needed exercise by walking.

I love to listen to live music. Later today I'll be heading to the Strummer Bar for the Punk Rock Lunch. 4 or 5 bands over 4 hours. FREE. No cover, no minimum. I'll get my agua con gas and a pretty good burger for around $12. Tomorrow night I'll be heading to the Conventillo Cultural Abasto for a couple hours of Chicago Blues bands...again, no cover charge, no minimum.
In May, I'm going to see Chrissy Hynde and The Pretenders. $50. At a concert in Los Angeles, you can't park your car for $50.
I also love horse racing. I've been to the Hippodromo Palermo a couple times where you can get an all day table in the clubhouse for, basically, a $15 food/drink minimum.

I have already made many friends, and got invited to a birthday party by a guy I met here. His grandfather was a famous tango singer in the 40's, and the party was at his grandfather's San Telmo apartment. The biggest home I've seen in Argentina - 4000 sq feet, 4 bedroom 5 bath and 2 maids quarters!

So, yeah...moving to BsAs was a great decision for me, and I'm making it permanent.
 
I moved here in February. I really don't understand the negativity of some people in this forum. Buenos Aires is a beautiful city, with lots to offer, and it is CHEAP. I don't care what anyone else says, most people's biggest budget item is housing, and I am paying less to rent an apartment in Recoleta than it cost me in New Mexico to own my house outright with utilities, taxes and insurance.

Food at the grocery store is, for the most part, inexpensive. Yes, a few things like olive oil are ridiculously overpriced. But other things, like meat and produce are less than the US. I spend around $100 a week for groceries, eating at home 5 days a week and going out to dinner twice a week. Dining out is fairly expensive. I'd say comparable to the US.

Transportation is another big expense for most people. In the US I owned my car, and STILL paid $200-300 month for gas, insurance, etc. Here I am averaging around $15 month on buses and subte, and getting in some needed exercise by walking.

I love to listen to live music. Later today I'll be heading to the Strummer Bar for the Punk Rock Lunch. 4 or 5 bands over 4 hours. FREE. No cover, no minimum. I'll get my agua con gas and a pretty good burger for around $12. Tomorrow night I'll be heading to the Conventillo Cultural Abasto for a couple hours of Chicago Blues bands...again, no cover charge, no minimum.
In May, I'm going to see Chrissy Hynde and The Pretenders. $50. At a concert in Los Angeles, you can't park your car for $50.
I also love horse racing. I've been to the Hippodromo Palermo a couple times where you can get an all day table in the clubhouse for, basically, a $15 food/drink minimum.

I have already made many friends, and got invited to a birthday party by a guy I met here. His grandfather was a famous tango singer in the 40's, and the party was at his grandfather's San Telmo apartment. The biggest home I've seen in Argentina - 4000 sq feet, 4 bedroom 5 bath and 2 maids quarters!

So, yeah...moving to BsAs was a great decision for me, and I'm making it permanent.
Buenos Aires is an awesome city to live. Glad you love your move. BA is still after all these years one of my favorite cities in the world. Each time I come here, I fall back in love with the city. Each trip I see all my friends and look forward to the day of moving back.

You can do BA cheap or expensive. BA is great at any price.
 
I moved here in February. I really don't understand the negativity of some people in this forum. Buenos Aires is a beautiful city, with lots to offer, and it is CHEAP. I don't care what anyone else says, most people's biggest budget item is housing, and I am paying less to rent an apartment in Recoleta than it cost me in New Mexico to own my house outright with utilities, taxes and insurance.

Food at the grocery store is, for the most part, inexpensive. Yes, a few things like olive oil are ridiculously overpriced. But other things, like meat and produce are less than the US. I spend around $100 a week for groceries, eating at home 5 days a week and going out to dinner twice a week. Dining out is fairly expensive. I'd say comparable to the US.

Transportation is another big expense for most people. In the US I owned my car, and STILL paid $200-300 month for gas, insurance, etc. Here I am averaging around $15 month on buses and subte, and getting in some needed exercise by walking.

I love to listen to live music. Later today I'll be heading to the Strummer Bar for the Punk Rock Lunch. 4 or 5 bands over 4 hours. FREE. No cover, no minimum. I'll get my agua con gas and a pretty good burger for around $12. Tomorrow night I'll be heading to the Conventillo Cultural Abasto for a couple hours of Chicago Blues bands...again, no cover charge, no minimum.
In May, I'm going to see Chrissy Hynde and The Pretenders. $50. At a concert in Los Angeles, you can't park your car for $50.
I also love horse racing. I've been to the Hippodromo Palermo a couple times where you can get an all day table in the clubhouse for, basically, a $15 food/drink minimum.

I have already made many friends, and got invited to a birthday party by a guy I met here. His grandfather was a famous tango singer in the 40's, and the party was at his grandfather's San Telmo apartment. The biggest home I've seen in Argentina - 4000 sq feet, 4 bedroom 5 bath and 2 maids quarters!

So, yeah...moving to BsAs was a great decision for me, and I'm making it permanent.
It ok if you are rich American like you with lot of dollars. For everyone else it difficult. Many leaving now.
 
I moved here in February. I really don't understand the negativity of some people in this forum. Buenos Aires is a beautiful city, with lots to offer, and it is CHEAP. I don't care what anyone else says, most people's biggest budget item is housing, and I am paying less to rent an apartment in Recoleta than it cost me in New Mexico to own my house outright with utilities, taxes and insurance.

Food at the grocery store is, for the most part, inexpensive. Yes, a few things like olive oil are ridiculously overpriced. But other things, like meat and produce are less than the US. I spend around $100 a week for groceries, eating at home 5 days a week and going out to dinner twice a week. Dining out is fairly expensive. I'd say comparable to the US.

Transportation is another big expense for most people. In the US I owned my car, and STILL paid $200-300 month for gas, insurance, etc. Here I am averaging around $15 month on buses and subte, and getting in some needed exercise by walking.

I love to listen to live music. Later today I'll be heading to the Strummer Bar for the Punk Rock Lunch. 4 or 5 bands over 4 hours. FREE. No cover, no minimum. I'll get my agua con gas and a pretty good burger for around $12. Tomorrow night I'll be heading to the Conventillo Cultural Abasto for a couple hours of Chicago Blues bands...again, no cover charge, no minimum.
In May, I'm going to see Chrissy Hynde and The Pretenders. $50. At a concert in Los Angeles, you can't park your car for $50.
I also love horse racing. I've been to the Hippodromo Palermo a couple times where you can get an all day table in the clubhouse for, basically, a $15 food/drink minimum.

I have already made many friends, and got invited to a birthday party by a guy I met here. His grandfather was a famous tango singer in the 40's, and the party was at his grandfather's San Telmo apartment. The biggest home I've seen in Argentina - 4000 sq feet, 4 bedroom 5 bath and 2 maids quarters!

So, yeah...moving to BsAs was a great decision for me, and I'm making it permanent.
I love reading stuff like this. I think I can have a good life down there. Rents there DO seem really low compared to other big city. That is the biggest expense. That is why I will buy a small place so I don't have to worry about rents going up or moving around every year or two. I'm coming down next month.

I like there is always something to do in BA. Events all the time.

Buenos Aires is an awesome city to live. Glad you love your move. BA is still after all these years one of my favorite cities in the world. Each time I come here, I fall back in love with the city. Each trip I see all my friends and look forward to the day of moving back.

You can do BA cheap or expensive. BA is great at any price.
Great that you love BA so much Mike. It sounds like that hasn't changed for you for 20 years. I always see all your posts eating out. For sure, your biggest expense is dining out!
 
I moved here in February. I really don't understand the negativity of some people in this forum. Buenos Aires is a beautiful city, with lots to offer, and it is CHEAP. I don't care what anyone else says, most people's biggest budget item is housing, and I am paying less to rent an apartment in Recoleta than it cost me in New Mexico to own my house outright with utilities, taxes and insurance.

Food at the grocery store is, for the most part, inexpensive. Yes, a few things like olive oil are ridiculously overpriced. But other things, like meat and produce are less than the US. I spend around $100 a week for groceries, eating at home 5 days a week and going out to dinner twice a week. Dining out is fairly expensive. I'd say comparable to the US.

Transportation is another big expense for most people. In the US I owned my car, and STILL paid $200-300 month for gas, insurance, etc. Here I am averaging around $15 month on buses and subte, and getting in some needed exercise by walking.

I love to listen to live music. Later today I'll be heading to the Strummer Bar for the Punk Rock Lunch. 4 or 5 bands over 4 hours. FREE. No cover, no minimum. I'll get my agua con gas and a pretty good burger for around $12. Tomorrow night I'll be heading to the Conventillo Cultural Abasto for a couple hours of Chicago Blues bands...again, no cover charge, no minimum.
In May, I'm going to see Chrissy Hynde and The Pretenders. $50. At a concert in Los Angeles, you can't park your car for $50.
I also love horse racing. I've been to the Hippodromo Palermo a couple times where you can get an all day table in the clubhouse for, basically, a $15 food/drink minimum.

I have already made many friends, and got invited to a birthday party by a guy I met here. His grandfather was a famous tango singer in the 40's, and the party was at his grandfather's San Telmo apartment. The biggest home I've seen in Argentina - 4000 sq feet, 4 bedroom 5 bath and 2 maids quarters!

So, yeah...moving to BsAs was a great decision for me, and I'm making it permanent.
Awesome I love hearing this and congrats on settling in. The common theme seems to be as long as you're single or without children it's affordable as long as you're not dining out daily. Even more so if you already own and are in good health. Bowtiedmara talked about private school and healthcare made up about half his budget and that includes him having a car.
 
Awesome I love hearing this and congrats on settling in. The common theme seems to be as long as you're single or without children it's affordable as long as you're not dining out daily. Even more so if you already own and are in good health. Bowtiedmara talked about private school and healthcare made up about half his budget and that includes him having a car.

Some of those numbers look too low. OSDE costs more than that for 4 people. That monthly maid sounds cheap also. He must not be paying any property taxes. I hear locals totally evade them. I heard it was supposed to be about 1% per year on any properties you own.
 
Check your privilege buddy. Lots of regular items common folk can't afford rn
Explain
It's quite annoying to see people throwing the word "privilege" around.

Working hard, good planning, saving and investing (not being too greedy) so that he can enjoy a comfortable retirement is not called 'privilege.'

Congrats Dave!
Investing, even a modest amount at a modest rate over a long enough time frame you can get a good return. A quick calculation for $200 monthly at 7% returns for 30 years results ~$225k, more than enough to purchase a small place in BA w plenty left over. And these are conservative numbers. So yes hard work, good planning, and investing could see even much better.
 
It's quite annoying to see people throwing the word "privilege" around.

Working hard, good planning, saving and investing (not being too greedy) so that he can enjoy a comfortable retirement is not called 'privilege.'

Congrats Dave!
Thank you @TonyTigre! I hate when people that did not plan ahead and save enough when they were younger and thought social security was going to be enough call people that are smart with planning privileged. It sounds like Dave did everything right. Congrats @daveholman.

Explain

Investing, even a modest amount at a modest rate over a long enough time frame you can get a good return. A quick calculation for $200 monthly at 7% returns for 30 years results ~$225k, more than enough to purchase a small place in BA w plenty left over. And these are conservative numbers. So yes hard work, good planning, and investing could see even much better.
Agree. But I know many of my parents friends that are trying to retire and some are still working in their 70's! At least part time jobs because they don't make enough to get by. That is scary and sad to me. I live beneath my means and lucky I bought my place when I was very young. I can't figure out people that just rent all their life.

Property prices in BA keep going up each month. Bummer about that as I still haven't bought anything yet but I am going down next month to BA and seeing a bunch of properties. But many on my Zonaprop list keep going off market selling. I am definitely going to buy a small place this trip.

@FuturoBA how is your place renting? I think you said you have a studio apartment in Palermo? How is it going?
 
It's quite annoying to see people throwing the word "privilege" around.

Working hard, good planning, saving and investing (not being too greedy) so that he can enjoy a comfortable retirement is not called 'privilege.'

Congrats Dave!
Amen! I will never understand people that don't save up enough for their retirement and then are bitter at others that did it right.
 
Awesome I love hearing this and congrats on settling in. The common theme seems to be as long as you're single or without children it's affordable as long as you're not dining out daily. Even more so if you already own and are in good health. Bowtiedmara talked about private school and healthcare made up about half his budget and that includes him having a car.

If you are an old fart and have no kids or a wife it sounds like it is cheap and easy. But ain't no way you can afford $1,300 a month and live comfortably with children. @daveholman didn't you say you had a young daughter? How much would it cost you to raise your daughter here and your wife. Send her to good private schools and get a good medical plan. That is going to be much more than what you are saying.

My friends here pay about $700 USD per month just in education. Per kid! And medical insurance is expensive too. Rents are still ok but those are heading up too. No way you can live anywhere close with kids.

You called it right @FuturoBA. If you are single and don't have to support kids it is easy. With kids not so much.
 
I'm not rich. As Bow Tied Mara shows up there, it's quite possible to live here on $1300/month.

How many are leaving? And where are they going? I don't see evidence of Argentinos moving to Paraguay or Vietnam...
What happened to your wife and kid back in the USA? If I abandoned my wife and kid back home (or my wife kicked me out) I could probably get by on a low budget in BA too.
 
Thank you @TonyTigre! I hate when people that did not plan ahead and save enough when they were younger and thought social security was going to be enough call people that are smart with planning privileged. It sounds like Dave did everything right. Congrats @daveholman.


Agree. But I know many of my parents friends that are trying to retire and some are still working in their 70's! At least part time jobs because they don't make enough to get by. That is scary and sad to me. I live beneath my means and lucky I bought my place when I was very young. I can't figure out people that just rent all their life.

Property prices in BA keep going up each month. Bummer about that as I still haven't bought anything yet but I am going down next month to BA and seeing a bunch of properties. But many on my Zonaprop list keep going off market selling. I am definitely going to buy a small place this trip.

@FuturoBA how is your place renting? I think you said you have a studio apartment in Palermo? How is it going?
Occupancy has been great, I have it rented out until about July and that's with increased rate of about 15% for this year.
 
If you are an old fart and have no kids or a wife it sounds like it is cheap and easy. But ain't no way you can afford $1,300 a month and live comfortably with children. @daveholman didn't you say you had a young daughter? How much would it cost you to raise your daughter here and your wife. Send her to good private schools and get a good medical plan. That is going to be much more than what you are saying.

My friends here pay about $700 USD per month just in education. Per kid! And medical insurance is expensive too. Rents are still ok but those are heading up too. No way you can live anywhere close with kids.

You called it right @FuturoBA. If you are single and don't have to support kids it is easy. With kids not so much.
When I read these comments I feel like many folks on this forum haven't lived in the US in a long time. Private schools are now US$25k to $75k per year per child, health insurance for a family of four is $40 to $50k a year (and you'll still spend another $10k+ on copays). Property taxes and especially home insurance have skyrocketed. And god help you if your kids are athletes - only if you have kids in club sports here do you have the faintest idea what I'm talking about. I could go on and on.

My uber driver the other day was bragging that he found a 1br apartment within a mile of downtown Austin for $1100 a month. That is just rent. And he's bragging about it.
 
When I read these comments I feel like many folks on this forum haven't lived in the US in a long time. Private schools are now US$25k to $75k per year per child, health insurance for a family of four is $40 to $50k a year (and you'll still spend another $10k+ on copays). Property taxes and especially home insurance have skyrocketed. And god help you if your kids are athletes - only if you have kids in club sports here do you have the faintest idea what I'm talking about. I could go on and on.

My uber driver the other day was bragging that he found a 1br apartment within a mile of downtown Austin for $1100 a month. That is just rent. And he's bragging about it.
Very true @CraigM. I think some of these people have lost total reality of how expensive life is in the USA. I don't think many of them have really lived or maybe even visited for long periods of time. Argentina is still extremely cheap overall for cost of living. Rents are dirt cheap (heading up but still very low). Obviously they are higher in Buenos Aires vs. other smaller towns.

But you nailed it on HIGH COST of living in the USA. We sent our kids to public schools because we moved to an area with the best school. But my friends are paying $30,000 to $50,000 per year per child to send to private schools. I opted to pay more for my house and pay property taxes vs. that bigger tuition amounts but many people pay both!

My health insurance premium for my family of 5 is about $35,000. Not the best program but not the worst either. Just a decent PPO plan. Since I own my own company I have to pay 100% of that. That's not even counting the co-pays as @CraigM nailed. Spot on target! Add in at least $10k on co-pays each year. And mine doesn't include dental insurance so we also pay out of pocket on that. (You don't want to know the cost of 3 kids having braces all at the same time!).

My property taxes luckily aren't too bad as they can only raise the value 2% a year. Fortunately I purchased when prices were lower but values tripled since I bought it 14 years ago but the property tax has only gone up 2% a year. But even at that rate you're talking about $20,000 per year in property taxes even after fully owning my house and it being paid off. My insurance bill they said will go up 250% as my company is leaving California.

And just taking Craig's example. All 3 of my kids are in extracurricular activities. My daughter is a Varsity tennis player since she was a freshman. Tennis lessons are $100 USD per hour. And she takes several per week. Same as my other 2 kids. Add on all the other stuff like piano lessons, drawing classes, etc, etc. Life in the USA is expensive! You have to be making a fortune and even then, it goes pretty quickly!

Many people on the forum that haven't lived in the USA before would be surprised. And many that have before and haven't been back would be surprised at the inflated cost of everything.
 
When I read these comments I feel like many folks on this forum haven't lived in the US in a long time. Private schools are now US$25k to $75k per year per child, health insurance for a family of four is $40 to $50k a year (and you'll still spend another $10k+ on copays). Property taxes and especially home insurance have skyrocketed. And god help you if your kids are athletes - only if you have kids in club sports here do you have the faintest idea what I'm talking about. I could go on and on.

My uber driver the other day was bragging that he found a 1br apartment within a mile of downtown Austin for $1100 a month. That is just rent. And he's bragging about it.
Yeah prices are crazy. I'm paying more in taxes and home insurance than on my mortgage, which I refinanced at under 3% - rates have more than doubled for those buying now which would be more than a $600 difference on a 400k home w a 20% down payment.
Very true @CraigM. I think some of these people have lost total reality of how expensive life is in the USA. I don't think many of them have really lived or maybe even visited for long periods of time. Argentina is still extremely cheap overall for cost of living. Rents are dirt cheap (heading up but still very low). Obviously they are higher in Buenos Aires vs. other smaller towns.

But you nailed it on HIGH COST of living in the USA. We sent our kids to public schools because we moved to an area with the best school. But my friends are paying $30,000 to $50,000 per year per child to send to private schools. I opted to pay more for my house and pay property taxes vs. that bigger tuition amounts but many people pay both!

My health insurance premium for my family of 5 is about $35,000. Not the best program but not the worst either. Just a decent PPO plan. Since I own my own company I have to pay 100% of that. That's not even counting the co-pays as @CraigM nailed. Spot on target! Add in at least $10k on co-pays each year. And mine doesn't include dental insurance so we also pay out of pocket on that. (You don't want to know the cost of 3 kids having braces all at the same time!).

My property taxes luckily aren't too bad as they can only raise the value 2% a year. Fortunately I purchased when prices were lower but values tripled since I bought it 14 years ago but the property tax has only gone up 2% a year. But even at that rate you're talking about $20,000 per year in property taxes even after fully owning my house and it being paid off. My insurance bill they said will go up 250% as my company is leaving California.

And just taking Craig's example. All 3 of my kids are in extracurricular activities. My daughter is a Varsity tennis player since she was a freshman. Tennis lessons are $100 USD per hour. And she takes several per week. Same as my other 2 kids. Add on all the other stuff like piano lessons, drawing classes, etc, etc. Life in the USA is expensive! You have to be making a fortune and even then, it goes pretty quickly!

Many people on the forum that haven't lived in the USA before would be surprised. And many that have before and haven't been back would be surprised at the inflated cost of everything.
Especially with children it's insane how much prices ramp up, and even if you're not sending them to private school now, once they go to college the prices would be around that much or more, and constantly rising. So while it sounds like the price of dining out is getting similar to US depending on where you go, many things are still much more expensive here.
 
Yeah prices are crazy. I'm paying more in taxes and home insurance than on my mortgage, which I refinanced at under 3% - rates have more than doubled for those buying now which would be more than a $600 difference on a 400k home w a 20% down payment.

Especially with children it's insane how much prices ramp up, and even if you're not sending them to private school now, once they go to college the prices would be around that much or more, and constantly rising. So while it sounds like the price of dining out is getting similar to US depending on where you go, many things are still much more expensive here.
Don't get me even started about University prices! The colleges my daughter are seriously considering are about $95,000 to $100,000 USD per year when you factor in tuition, room and board and books. That's insane. She is trying to get into the London School of Economics which is a top tier school. Even with out of country tuition for room and board and all expenses it will be about $55,000 USD per year but it's only 3 years vs. 4 years.

Many Americans ARE struggling to pay bills.

 
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