How are expats and retirees dealing with the inflation lately in Argentina?

[Uncle Wong]

I have been traveling around South America the past few months. I started out in Buenos Aires and visited Bariloche, Mendoza, Iguazu. All very different but beautiful. I visited Bogota and Medellin and Cali. I am in Rio now. All very different places and cheaper than the USA. I am curious how those of you that are retired and living in Argentina manage to deal with the prices increaases and lack of stability? I did not really have to deal with it too much as the blue dollar kept going up. But I am reading many message boards online about people complaining about spiraling cost of things.

I may try my hand at working remotely but even if I do I would need some stability with knowing what my expenses will be. I did not like these other cities as much as Buenos Aires but at least prices weren't jumping around and the exchange rate wasn't changing so drastically day to day. Will all of you expats stay in Argentina or move somewhere else more affordable?

 

[Betsy Ross]

Most of us longtimers are used to fluctuations with exchange rate. But those that have just moved here in the last few years might not be used to it. There were many expats that had to leave the last time things got expensive. I would guess that many expats and digital nomads will leave this cycle too. Previously there was a big spread and arbitrage opportunity between the white and the blue rate. This is gone now and you have blue dollar getting weaker too along with inflation of prices upwards.

Digital nomads probably will still come as the price is still lower than USA however the hassles and expenses of flight tickets makes it more difficult. You can easily go to Europe for a few hundred bucks on various sales from the USA. Tickets are mostly expensive to Argentina.

It still is more affordable here vs. other cities but prices are going up and many other more affordable cities around the world but I would argue lacking in cultural events and activities. The next few months could get ugly here.

 

[James Bond]

I am throwing in the towel as my girlfriend is beyond ready to try something different. Many of her friends have moved to Spain. Fortunately, she has a Spanish passport too. She has a son from a previous marriage and that was the only thing that kept her in Buenos Aires but her ex-husband also will try his hand in Spain vs. trying to make it in Argentina. Fortunately, they have a good relationship and are good parents but life is too unpredictable in Argentina. She is happy that she will be near her friends. They have friends in Marbella and also Malaga. It is looking like Malaga for us.

 

[Wally]

I am throwing in the towel as my girlfriend is beyond ready to try something different. Many of her friends have moved to Spain. Fortunately, she has a Spanish passport too. She has a son from a previous marriage and that was the only thing that kept her in Buenos Aires but her ex-husband also will try his hand in Spain vs. trying to make it in Argentina. Fortunately, they have a good relationship and are good parents but life is too unpredictable in Argentina. She is happy that she will be near her friends. They have friends in Marbella and also Malaga. It is looking like Malaga for us.

Good luck in Spain. We have lost a lot of friends in the past year that ultimately moved to Spain. Malaga is a hotspot for Argentines. I have not been there for years but my wife has many friends and even family members that moved there and are very happy.

We aren't going anywhere as all my wife's family including her parents live in Buenos Aires. The biggest increase for us is healthcare expenses as our premiums go through the roof but no chance we can drop our plan as I have a heard condition and my wife also has health issues. We are here for the long haul.

Our local friends are struggling as many of them have peso incomes. Many got raises but not matching inflation. We get by ok as we do not go crazy with our budget. Having our own place helps quite a bit. Some of our friends were on long term leases and the owner drastically raised prices once their lease ended so they decided to move rather than look for another lease.

 

[earlyretirement]

Most of us longtimers are used to fluctuations with exchange rate. But those that have just moved here in the last few years might not be used to it. There were many expats that had to leave the last time things got expensive. I would guess that many expats and digital nomads will leave this cycle too. Previously there was a big spread and arbitrage opportunity between the white and the blue rate. This is gone now and you have blue dollar getting weaker too along with inflation of prices upwards.

Digital nomads probably will still come as the price is still lower than USA however the hassles and expenses of flight tickets makes it more difficult. You can easily go to Europe for a few hundred bucks on various sales from the USA. Tickets are mostly expensive to Argentina.

It still is more affordable here vs. other cities but prices are going up and many other more affordable cities around the world but I would argue lacking in cultural events and activities. The next few months could get ugly here.

I totally agree with @Betsy Ross. Most of us that have been going to Argentina or lived here a long time are accustomed to these fluctuations. The only thing certain about Argentina is that there is no certainty. Things are in flux there and the system has been broken for a long time. I have seen several cycles where it was formally one of the most expensive cities to becoming THE cheapest major metropolitan city to it bouncing around.

I still believe the calibre of a city it is, it is affordable IF you have USD savings/income. The truth of the matter is there has been tremendous inflation everywhere in the world. Life has gotten expensive in many places around the world. I have family in Colombia, I own properties in Mexico and friends and clients all over the world. I don't know of one place that has gotten cheaper. Quite the contrary, life has become more expensive all over the world.

I have found that Expats like to complain a lot. I don't think anyone should move to Argentina and expect things to be stable. I have said it before and I will say it again, there will be more pain and difficulties over the near term. The kind of systemic change that is needed for Argentina will be shocking for the masses and especially locals. That is who my heart goes out to the most. I would expect inflation to continue. I don't think anyone can say with certainty what will happen with the blue dollar but generally, I have found it is better to believe in USD vs. Argentine peso.

I am throwing in the towel as my girlfriend is beyond ready to try something different. Many of her friends have moved to Spain. Fortunately, she has a Spanish passport too. She has a son from a previous marriage and that was the only thing that kept her in Buenos Aires but her ex-husband also will try his hand in Spain vs. trying to make it in Argentina. Fortunately, they have a good relationship and are good parents but life is too unpredictable in Argentina. She is happy that she will be near her friends. They have friends in Marbella and also Malaga. It is looking like Malaga for us.

Good luck @jamesbond! You're not alone. Many of my friends have moved to Spain from Buenos Aires. I have spoken to several of them and they are all very happy there. Most of them moved to Malega so I can't imagine just how many Argentines are there! With some of my friends, it wasn't just my friends but their entire extended family that all moved to Malega. Marbella and Malega are beautiful areas.

Good luck in Spain. We have lost a lot of friends in the past year that ultimately moved to Spain. Malaga is a hotspot for Argentines. I have not been there for years but my wife has many friends and even family members that moved there and are very happy.

We aren't going anywhere as all my wife's family including her parents live in Buenos Aires. The biggest increase for us is healthcare expenses as our premiums go through the roof but no chance we can drop our plan as I have a heard condition and my wife also has health issues. We are here for the long haul.

Our local friends are struggling as many of them have peso incomes. Many got raises but not matching inflation. We get by ok as we do not go crazy with our budget. Having our own place helps quite a bit. Some of our friends were on long term leases and the owner drastically raised prices once their lease ended so they decided to move rather than look for another lease.

I totally agree that owning your own place in Argentina makes it much less stressful. I have many friends and also former clients that are living in Buenos Aires and they always complain about the hassles of ending their leases and finding a new place. It's always been a stressful experience for them. When I move to Buenos Aires in retirement, I'll just live in one of my owned properties.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Hopefully inflation slows down. People have to put things into perspective. If Massa won the Presidential election we would be experiencing hyper-inflation. All indicators are that inflation is slowing down. But the next few months will indeed be painful. My only hope is that it won't create social unrest.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-inflation-seen-cooling-milei-austerity-tempers-food-prices-2024-03-08/

 

[FuturoBA]

I still believe the calibre of a city it is, it is affordable IF you have USD savings/income. The truth of the matter is there has been tremendous inflation everywhere in the world. Life has gotten expensive in many places around the world. I have family in Colombia, I own properties in Mexico and friends and clients all over the world. I don't know of one place that has gotten cheaper. Quite the contrary, life has become more expensive all over the world.

Exactly this. Everywhere around COL has been going up. I haven't been following specific pricing indices but are other countries rising at a more predictable manner?? With Argentina it appears things are chaotic with some costs shooting up, some more stable, and some even going down with the only constant is everything is in a state of flux. Does the unpredictable nature make it appear worse than reality?? At least for those earning in USD or its equivalent, not to mention the locals earning in pesos where my heart goes out to them going through this on a constant basis.

Looks like health insurance is shooting up, high end restaurants shooting up, and maybe rent going up? I periodically check airbnbs and haven't seen it get to the point of unavoidability quite yet but maybe I'm looking at the wrong places.

Hopefully inflation slows down. People have to put things into perspective. If Massa won the Presidential election we would be experiencing hyper-inflation. All indicators are that inflation is slowing down. But the next few months will indeed be painful. My only hope is that it won't create social unrest.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-inflation-seen-cooling-milei-austerity-tempers-food-prices-2024-03-08/

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I read and hear, even during the corralito things were pretty safe. Any other place there would be mass chaos. What is it about Argentina that it was able to handle such an event with such peace??

 

[earlyretirement]

Exactly this. Everywhere around COL has been going up. I haven't been following specific pricing indices but are other countries rising at a more predictable manner?? With Argentina it appears things are chaotic with some costs shooting up, some more stable, and some even going down with the only constant is everything is in a state of flux. Does the unpredictable nature make it appear worse than reality?? At least for those earning in USD or its equivalent, not to mention the locals earning in pesos where my heart goes out to them going through this on a constant basis.

Looks like health insurance is shooting up, high end restaurants shooting up, and maybe rent going up? I periodically check airbnbs and haven't seen it get to the point of unavoidability quite yet but maybe I'm looking at the wrong places.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I read and hear, even during the corralito things were pretty safe. Any other place there would be mass chaos. What is it about Argentina that it was able to handle such an event with such peace??

Totally true. The one constant in Argentina is that things are unpredictable. I'd like to think this will someday change for the long-term but I always say that I am not sure that I will see systemic change in my lifetime. President Milei is shaking things up and cutting government spending which is encouraging. I never thought I would finally see that and it is encouraging but don't agree with everything.

@FuturoBA, I think you nailed it that the unpredictable nature does make it feel worse than reality. That is a good way to put it. I have always found even from a few cycles before that expats complain the most. In my experience, most of them care more about themselves vs. the good of Argentina. Not all of them, but many of them are totally self-interested.

Some things feel horrible as the inflation has never been this quick in a few short months as the government previously banned raising prices more than a few % per month. For better or worse that has gone out the window. Health insurance is extremely expensive in the USA as well. I have a family of 3 children and my wife and I and we've been paying about $2,700 USD per month which is pretty insane if you think about it. I guess an equivalent healthcare plan would be the OSDE 410 plan.

Locals I feel sorry for. Expats, not so much. I was in Argentina during the corralito and I was amazed at the relative calm (compared how it would be in first world countries) if the same thing happened. In Argentina they are accustomed to chaos I believe. If the same thing happened in the USA I can assure you, it would be utter chaos and destruction. It's this civility which first attracted me to Argentina and to this day is why I love and respect it so much. Even with 300% annual inflation, you can walk down the street, nothing is really locked up in stores, etc.

I don't believe this will change in Argentina. There might be some social unrest if people can't afford to buy food but generally I am amazed with the civility there. Even if prices got to be more expensive vs. USA, I will still spend a significant time in retirement in Buenos Aires.

 

[GlasgowJohn]

I am throwing in the towel as my girlfriend is beyond ready to try something different. Many of her friends have moved to Spain. Fortunately, she has a Spanish passport too. She has a son from a previous marriage and that was the only thing that kept her in Buenos Aires but her ex-husband also will try his hand in Spain vs. trying to make it in Argentina. Fortunately, they have a good relationship and are good parents but life is too unpredictable in Argentina. She is happy that she will be near her friends. They have friends in Marbella and also Malaga. It is looking like Malaga for us.

Best of luck in Malaga. I lived there for three different spells - the last one for 16 years. You will have a great quality of life!

 

[James Bond]

Best of luck in Malaga. I lived there for three different spells - the last one for 16 years. You will have a great quality of life!

Thanks! Everyone tells me the quality of life there is very high. My girlfriend's friends that moved there all love the lifestyle, love being near the beach and they claim (I am not sure if it is true) that the cost of living is less than BA now. Argentines complain so much about BA that I am not quite sure if that is true or not but I am seeing things online that say food is very affordable there.

I am looking forward to checking it out and having a bit of stability. The instability and extreme changes in Argentina gets stressful after a while. I have a feeling the next few months will be even more painful. My girlfriend's car has been broken into several times the past few months. That has never happened before.

 

[Avocado]

The question you should ask is how are locals getting by that earn the peso. I see something for first time in my life living in Argentina. The other day I see family stealing milk in the store. They cut plastic and take milk into their container. When you see this kind thing you know situation very bad.

Milei cut budget for soup kitchen and places where people get their only meal of day. This kind of thing very dangerous for Argentina.