Is it normal for a property owner to insist on buyers to pay with CASH $100 US Dollar bills for an apartment purchase in Buenos Aires?

[Todd]

I am new to this forum. I have been coming to Argentina a few times over the past few years. I did not come for a few years during covid lockdown. I sold my house in the US and looking to move somewhere to retire. I don't need too much room but I am shocked to learn that property owners here almost all want cash. When I heard cash before I didn't think they actually meant actual $1`00 USD bills!

That seems crazy to me! I asked my Porteño friends and they told me this is all normal. This can't be normal? They all say they carried cash to closing underneath their clothes or in a backpack. Crazy crazy to me.

My realtor told me that the seller gets to choose the location for the closing and I'm responsible to bring cash there. They say this is all normal. Can the seller really demand cash? Also, on the property that I like, the seller will only sell it if I declare a fake price that is about 65% of the true sales price. My realtor also said this is normal. This can't be normal is it? I am feeling a bit overwhelmed if this is true.

 

[Betsy Ross]

I am new to this forum. I have been coming to Argentina a few times over the past few years. I did not come for a few years during covid lockdown. I sold my house in the US and looking to move somewhere to retire. I don't need too much room but I am shocked to learn that property owners here almost all want cash. When I heard cash before I didn't think they actually meant actual $1`00 USD bills!

That seems crazy to me! I asked my Porteño friends and they told me this is all normal. This can't be normal? They all say they carried cash to closing underneath their clothes or in a backpack. Crazy crazy to me.

My realtor told me that the seller gets to choose the location for the closing and I'm responsible to bring cash there. They say this is all normal. Can the seller really demand cash? Also, on the property that I like, the seller will only sell it if I declare a fake price that is about 65% of the true sales price. My realtor also said this is normal. This can't be normal is it? I am feeling a bit overwhelmed if this is true.

It sounds strange but it is how they do things here. It is not too common to find someone that will allow you to wire outside of Argentina. It IS however legal to do that. But almost all transactions are in cash.

Yes the sellers can demand cash. That is normal. Most ask you to use a fake artificial price so that is normal but you should think about possible consequences of that.

 

[Vero]

Cash is the norm here. If you only try to find an apartment that will allow another form of payment you may not find much. When I bought my property that is how I did it. I had to pay in cash.

 

[Bobbie Burgers]

Par for the course here. Cash is king. That is how I paid for my property. You would be surprised how much cash you can carry hiding it on your body.

 

[Albany]

This is how they do it in Argentina. 99% of real estate sales are done this way. You can try to find a foreign owner looking to sell their apartment but there is no way to filter by this so you have to know a realtor that knows. But it can be frustrating and why many don't want to buy here.

 

[Todd]

Wow but this sounds so risky. I assume they have armored trucks who you can pay to transport the cash? No way I will be walking around like a drug dealer with this much cash. The property I am looking at is almost $200,000. I won't risk that. My realtor said I can send it to her cueva and she would help me move it. Ha! No thanks! What is stopping her from calling a thug to rob my cash? These cuevas want to charge 3.5% to 4% to get the cash. Is that correct?

 

[Avocado]

Sounds crazy to foreigner but cash is how we do things here. Some cuevas will deliver to wherever you need it delivered. But you have to trust them. Remember you wire the money first to them and then they bring to you. I would not recommend you actually carrying cash around. The locals do that but I don't recommend to a foreigner that is not accustomed to carrying around cash.

I purchased several properties in my life. Seller pick place of closing. Buyer use Escribano for both sides.

 

[Bobbie Burgers]

I had the same reaction when I bought my property. I thought it was crazy but I couldn't find any properties of foreign owners. My wife wanted this property so it was the only way. I wired the money to the cueva that I use all the time. They did not deliver the money so I had to go pick it up. $175,000 and I split it up between me and my buddy.

One thing that I learned after is that this is technically not legal. Moving in blue is illegal and I am told when I sell the property I could have big issues but I will cross that bridge when the time comes.

 

[BuySellBA]

I am new to this forum. I have been coming to Argentina a few times over the past few years. I did not come for a few years during covid lockdown. I sold my house in the US and looking to move somewhere to retire. I don't need too much room but I am shocked to learn that property owners here almost all want cash. When I heard cash before I didn't think they actually meant actual $1`00 USD bills!

That seems crazy to me! I asked my Porteño friends and they told me this is all normal. This can't be normal? They all say they carried cash to closing underneath their clothes or in a backpack. Crazy crazy to me.

My realtor told me that the seller gets to choose the location for the closing and I'm responsible to bring cash there. They say this is all normal. Can the seller really demand cash? Also, on the property that I like, the seller will only sell it if I declare a fake price that is about 65% of the true sales price. My realtor also said this is normal. This can't be normal is it? I am feeling a bit overwhelmed if this is true.

It is totally normal for sellers to demand cash at closing. It is strange for most people from first-world countries to deal with actual cash but this is normal here. However, keep in mind it's extremely important how you structure the wire into Argentina as everything should be done legally to avoid issues later when you sell the property. If you're a non-resident foreigner, when you go to sell, the AFIP (Argentina IRS) will require you to get a permit to sell the property and many times they check to see how you brought in the funds to purchase the property. Using a cueva is not technically legal. Also, it is getting more difficult to purchase the property using a cueva as an Escribano used for the transaction is more stringent these days asking how funds were legally brought into the country.

President Milei is trying to get Argentina out of a "grey" status with the international community so expect things to be more stringent. Hopefully, they make it easier to wire in funds in the future but this all will take time.

There are ways you can legally go through the bond market to get cash into Argentina. It's perfectly legal and the costs are lower than using a cueva. We don't recommend using a cueva and wiring funds in blue/black as that can have unintended consequences later when you go to sell the property.

As others mentioned, it is normal for the seller to select the location of the closing but our firm has negotiated hundreds of times to do the final closing at the financial institution of our choice. You can structure the offer such that you are selecting the location. Very few sellers when all is said and done will refuse a reasonable offer with this condition but it needs to be made up front when you're making the offer.
Also, it's quite common for sellers to request/demand using a fake lower price on the title deed but we would NEVER recommend doing this. There used to be a 0% capital gains tax on residential real estate up until 2018. Those who purchased before this are grandfathered in on that capital gains tax. However, people that are purchasing now have a 15% capital gains tax on the declared price of purchase vs. the declared sales price. So if you use a fake lower price, you're capital gains is going to be massive as you're lowering the purchase price so beware of this.

Some sellers have an account overseas and it's perfectly legal to wire to them abroad but the vast majority of owners prefer cash so it's important to structure everything legally. It is very important to understand all the laws and how everything works here for non-resident foreigners vs. locals. It is also very important to understand the possible ramifications by not doing things properly from the start.

 

[BuySellBA]

Wow but this sounds so risky. I assume they have armored trucks who you can pay to transport the cash? No way I will be walking around like a drug dealer with this much cash. The property I am looking at is almost $200,000. I won't risk that. My realtor said I can send it to her cueva and she would help me move it. Ha! No thanks! What is stopping her from calling a thug to rob my cash? These cuevas want to charge 3.5% to 4% to get the cash. Is that correct?

Yes, they do have armored trucks that you can wire but the preferred method would be to negotiate to close in your financial institution. Keep in mind however, if there is a boleto (30% down payment) you will have to do that in the seller's location so there is typically at least one time when you're going to be responsible for having cash outside of your financial institution. But you can pay a security firm to transport the money.

I had the same reaction when I bought my property. I thought it was crazy but I couldn't find any properties of foreign owners. My wife wanted this property so it was the only way. I wired the money to the cueva that I use all the time. They did not deliver the money so I had to go pick it up. $175,000 and I split it up between me and my buddy.

One thing that I learned after is that this is technically not legal. Moving in blue is illegal and I am told when I sell the property I could have big issues but I will cross that bridge when the time comes.

It's almost impossible to only find properties where you can wire abroad. This is very difficult and you will lose out on a lot of great properties. Wiring to a cueva is not recommended as mentioned above. This is not legal in the eyes of Argentina for bringing funds into the country. Hopefully that changes in the future but you have to remember that Presidents and political parties come and go. Just because one party might look the other way when you bought it, it might not be the case when you go to sell the property. It's best to structure everything in white and legal to avoid issues.

Some people just roll the dice and say they will deal with it later. But it's a better strategy to think about things when you're buying to avoid possible issues down the road.

 

[Che Vos]

I don't know laws for foreigners but I know cash is normal here. Almost all Argentines have cash at home in their safe. It like that for all my family. When my sister buy property it come from my family savings in cash. All the people use cash here to buy property. It is very normal to carry cash. We never like to use security guard company so they don't know family has money or details. Some robberies that way.

 

[Digital Nomad]

I am new to this forum. I have been coming to Argentina a few times over the past few years. I did not come for a few years during covid lockdown. I sold my house in the US and looking to move somewhere to retire. I don't need too much room but I am shocked to learn that property owners here almost all want cash. When I heard cash before I didn't think they actually meant actual $1`00 USD bills!

That seems crazy to me! I asked my Porteño friends and they told me this is all normal. This can't be normal? They all say they carried cash to closing underneath their clothes or in a backpack. Crazy crazy to me.

My realtor told me that the seller gets to choose the location for the closing and I'm responsible to bring cash there. They say this is all normal. Can the seller really demand cash? Also, on the property that I like, the seller will only sell it if I declare a fake price that is about 65% of the true sales price. My realtor also said this is normal. This can't be normal is it? I am feeling a bit overwhelmed if this is true.

@Todd this is also my experience. Cash is all normal here.

It is totally normal for sellers to demand cash at closing. It is strange for most people from first-world countries to deal with actual cash but this is normal here. However, keep in mind it's extremely important how you structure the wire into Argentina as everything should be done legally to avoid issues later when you sell the property. If you're a non-resident foreigner, when you go to sell, the AFIP (Argentina IRS) will require you to get a permit to sell the property and many times they check to see how you brought in the funds to purchase the property. Using a cueva is not technically legal. Also, it is getting more difficult to purchase the property using a cueva as an Escribano used for the transaction is more stringent these days asking how funds were legally brought into the country.

President Milei is trying to get Argentina out of a "grey" status with the international community so expect things to be more stringent. Hopefully, they make it easier to wire in funds in the future but this all will take time.

There are ways you can legally go through the bond market to get cash into Argentina. It's perfectly legal and the costs are lower than using a cueva. We don't recommend using a cueva and wiring funds in blue/black as that can have unintended consequences later when you go to sell the property.

As others mentioned, it is normal for the seller to select the location of the closing but our firm has negotiated hundreds of times to do the final closing at the financial institution of our choice. You can structure the offer such that you are selecting the location. Very few sellers when all is said and done will refuse a reasonable offer with this condition but it needs to be made up front when you're making the offer.
Also, it's quite common for sellers to request/demand using a fake lower price on the title deed but we would NEVER recommend doing this. There used to be a 0% capital gains tax on residential real estate up until 2018. Those who purchased before this are grandfathered in on that capital gains tax. However, people that are purchasing now have a 15% capital gains tax on the declared price of purchase vs. the declared sales price. So if you use a fake lower price, you're capital gains is going to be massive as you're lowering the purchase price so beware of this.

Some sellers have an account overseas and it's perfectly legal to wire to them abroad but the vast majority of owners prefer cash so it's important to structure everything legally. It is very important to understand all the laws and how everything works here for non-resident foreigners vs. locals. It is also very important to understand the possible ramifications by not doing things properly from the start.

Great advice. Thanks for this. I met a few expats that are winging it just using cuevas but I think it's good to understand possible risks. @BuySellBA will President Milei make it easier to legally wire in funds? But even if he does do you think locals will still want to deal with cash? The cash thing is what I don't like the most.

 

[crypto]

This is the perfect scenario where crypto would be useful and eliminates the ridiculous cash aspect of closing.

 

[Larry]

I am new to this forum. I have been coming to Argentina a few times over the past few years. I did not come for a few years during covid lockdown. I sold my house in the US and looking to move somewhere to retire. I don't need too much room but I am shocked to learn that property owners here almost all want cash. When I heard cash before I didn't think they actually meant actual $1`00 USD bills!

That seems crazy to me! I asked my Porteño friends and they told me this is all normal. This can't be normal? They all say they carried cash to closing underneath their clothes or in a backpack. Crazy crazy to me.

My realtor told me that the seller gets to choose the location for the closing and I'm responsible to bring cash there. They say this is all normal. Can the seller really demand cash? Also, on the property that I like, the seller will only sell it if I declare a fake price that is about 65% of the true sales price. My realtor also said this is normal. This can't be normal is it? I am feeling a bit overwhelmed if this is true.

This is normal here. When I bought my flat I paid in cash. I carried it myself. Not too big of a deal. $100k doesn't take up much room at all.

It is totally normal for sellers to demand cash at closing. It is strange for most people from first-world countries to deal with actual cash but this is normal here. However, keep in mind it's extremely important how you structure the wire into Argentina as everything should be done legally to avoid issues later when you sell the property. If you're a non-resident foreigner, when you go to sell, the AFIP (Argentina IRS) will require you to get a permit to sell the property and many times they check to see how you brought in the funds to purchase the property. Using a cueva is not technically legal. Also, it is getting more difficult to purchase the property using a cueva as an Escribano used for the transaction is more stringent these days asking how funds were legally brought into the country.

President Milei is trying to get Argentina out of a "grey" status with the international community so expect things to be more stringent. Hopefully, they make it easier to wire in funds in the future but this all will take time.

There are ways you can legally go through the bond market to get cash into Argentina. It's perfectly legal and the costs are lower than using a cueva. We don't recommend using a cueva and wiring funds in blue/black as that can have unintended consequences later when you go to sell the property.

As others mentioned, it is normal for the seller to select the location of the closing but our firm has negotiated hundreds of times to do the final closing at the financial institution of our choice. You can structure the offer such that you are selecting the location. Very few sellers when all is said and done will refuse a reasonable offer with this condition but it needs to be made up front when you're making the offer.
Also, it's quite common for sellers to request/demand using a fake lower price on the title deed but we would NEVER recommend doing this. There used to be a 0% capital gains tax on residential real estate up until 2018. Those who purchased before this are grandfathered in on that capital gains tax. However, people that are purchasing now have a 15% capital gains tax on the declared price of purchase vs. the declared sales price. So if you use a fake lower price, you're capital gains is going to be massive as you're lowering the purchase price so beware of this.

Some sellers have an account overseas and it's perfectly legal to wire to them abroad but the vast majority of owners prefer cash so it's important to structure everything legally. It is very important to understand all the laws and how everything works here for non-resident foreigners vs. locals. It is also very important to understand the possible ramifications by not doing things properly from the start.

Good advice. But almost all the people push new buyer to use fake price. Endless loop to avoid taxes here.

This is the perfect scenario where crypto would be useful and eliminates the ridiculous cash aspect of closing.

I disagree. Value of crypto change each minute. Sometimes drastically. Why would you want to take that risk? I am no expert on crypto at all. But I can see it is volatile. No one wants to get paid and have value less than an hour ago.

 

[Finance Prof]

This is normal here. When I bought my flat I paid in cash. I carried it myself. Not too big of a deal. $100k doesn't take up much room at all.


Good advice. But almost all the people push new buyer to use fake price. Endless loop to avoid taxes here.


I disagree. Value of crypto change each minute. Sometimes drastically. Why would you want to take that risk? I am no expert on crypto at all. But I can see it is volatile. No one wants to get paid and have value less than an hour ago.

Cash is king here. That is the norm. If you can't get past that then real estate here might not make sense. It is what prevents many foreigners from buying here. Even if Milei has common sense changes, without a fundamental change in the banking system, it's all moot.

I bought two places here and both were in cash. First time I used Banco Piano and the second I used Casa Puente. I used the same Escribano on both transactions and all went without a hitch. He arranged with the seller on all the details and as @BuySellBA mentioned I negotiated when I made the offer to close at my bank. I did have to bring cash from the boleto to the seller's bank. That was 30% down payment in cash.

 

[earlyretirement]

Some great advice on this thread and many good points all around. The single most important advice I can give is to have a really great Escribano. Besides new construction, you as the buyer have the right to choose the Escribano and the seller is locked into using this lawyer for the transaction. It really helps to have an Escribano that is well-versed and experienced with non-resident foreigners. A skilled Escribano can negotiate with the seller and explain to them how to proceed with a transaction to get them cash while at the same time doing everything legally and 100% in white.

As with many things in Argentina, it's always quicker and easier to do things in blue/black (i.e. illegal). But you can have unexpected headaches later when you go to sell the property. It's always recommended to do things legally here in a foreign country. Especially one like Argentina. There are methods that won't cost you anymore money than doing it illegally but will save you possible headaches later down the road.

For example, going through a cueva is very simple and quick but it's not legal. There are no paperwork hassles but this is probably going to change on real estate purchases where the lawyers/escribanos involved with the transaction are going to have to certify that all the funds are in white and came into Argentina legally. When you do it through a legitimate financial institution like @Finance Prof mentioned, you can be assured that it's all legal. There are several financial institutions that have been around a while and have experience and will eliminate risk.

Those firms will require that you fill out an application for the account. Standard KYC (know your client) paperwork and they will ask you to justify your funds so you'll need bank statements and financial paperwork to backup that the funds are legitimate. They will also run a background check on you to make sure you don't have any arrest record for money laundering or drug trafficking arrests. And keep in mind even if you were found not guilty, that might not matter. Some firms won't let you wire in if you have ANY arrest in money laundering or drug-related arrests. There is an international background check that all banks use.

The cash part of the transaction makes people nervous but if you have a skilled Escribano they can help you eliminate the possible risks. I have purchased over 600+ properties in Buenos Aires over the past 22 years all without any issues at all.

 

[crypto]

I disagree. Value of crypto change each minute. Sometimes drastically. Why would you want to take that risk? I am no expert on crypto at all. But I can see it is volatile. No one wants to get paid and have value less than an hour ago.

You can use a reputable stablecoin not a shitcoin.

 

[Larry]

You can use a reputable stablecoin not a shitcoin.

You mean like these STABLE coins? No thanks. They are all shitcoins.

Comprehensive List of Failed Stablecoins - ChainSec

What’s a stablecoin? Mostly attempted to achieve algorithmically and/or through collateralization — a stablecoin is a cryptocurrency that should be pegged or tied to a specific currency, mostly the United States Dollar (USD). Stablecoins are created mostly to be able to use a non-volatile...

chainsec.io

 

[Todd]

Cash is king here. That is the norm. If you can't get past that then real estate here might not make sense. It is what prevents many foreigners from buying here. Even if Milei has common sense changes, without a fundamental change in the banking system, it's all moot.

I bought two places here and both were in cash. First time I used Banco Piano and the second I used Casa Puente. I used the same Escribano on both transactions and all went without a hitch. He arranged with the seller on all the details and as @BuySellBA mentioned I negotiated when I made the offer to close at my bank. I did have to bring cash from the boleto to the seller's bank. That was 30% down payment in cash.

Thank you for these links and advice. Very helpful.

It is totally normal for sellers to demand cash at closing. It is strange for most people from first-world countries to deal with actual cash but this is normal here. However, keep in mind it's extremely important how you structure the wire into Argentina as everything should be done legally to avoid issues later when you sell the property. If you're a non-resident foreigner, when you go to sell, the AFIP (Argentina IRS) will require you to get a permit to sell the property and many times they check to see how you brought in the funds to purchase the property. Using a cueva is not technically legal. Also, it is getting more difficult to purchase the property using a cueva as an Escribano used for the transaction is more stringent these days asking how funds were legally brought into the country.

President Milei is trying to get Argentina out of a "grey" status with the international community so expect things to be more stringent. Hopefully, they make it easier to wire in funds in the future but this all will take time.

There are ways you can legally go through the bond market to get cash into Argentina. It's perfectly legal and the costs are lower than using a cueva. We don't recommend using a cueva and wiring funds in blue/black as that can have unintended consequences later when you go to sell the property.

As others mentioned, it is normal for the seller to select the location of the closing but our firm has negotiated hundreds of times to do the final closing at the financial institution of our choice. You can structure the offer such that you are selecting the location. Very few sellers when all is said and done will refuse a reasonable offer with this condition but it needs to be made up front when you're making the offer.
Also, it's quite common for sellers to request/demand using a fake lower price on the title deed but we would NEVER recommend doing this. There used to be a 0% capital gains tax on residential real estate up until 2018. Those who purchased before this are grandfathered in on that capital gains tax. However, people that are purchasing now have a 15% capital gains tax on the declared price of purchase vs. the declared sales price. So if you use a fake lower price, you're capital gains is going to be massive as you're lowering the purchase price so beware of this.

Some sellers have an account overseas and it's perfectly legal to wire to them abroad but the vast majority of owners prefer cash so it's important to structure everything legally. It is very important to understand all the laws and how everything works here for non-resident foreigners vs. locals. It is also very important to understand the possible ramifications by not doing things properly from the start.

Thank you! Extremely helpful advice. I sent you a PM if you can see when you get a chance.

Some great advice on this thread and many good points all around. The single most important advice I can give is to have a really great Escribano. Besides new construction, you as the buyer have the right to choose the Escribano and the seller is locked into using this lawyer for the transaction. It really helps to have an Escribano that is well-versed and experienced with non-resident foreigners. A skilled Escribano can negotiate with the seller and explain to them how to proceed with a transaction to get them cash while at the same time doing everything legally and 100% in white.

As with many things in Argentina, it's always quicker and easier to do things in blue/black (i.e. illegal). But you can have unexpected headaches later when you go to sell the property. It's always recommended to do things legally here in a foreign country. Especially one like Argentina. There are methods that won't cost you anymore money than doing it illegally but will save you possible headaches later down the road.

For example, going through a cueva is very simple and quick but it's not legal. There are no paperwork hassles but this is probably going to change on real estate purchases where the lawyers/escribanos involved with the transaction are going to have to certify that all the funds are in white and came into Argentina legally. When you do it through a legitimate financial institution like @Finance Prof mentioned, you can be assured that it's all legal. There are several financial institutions that have been around a while and have experience and will eliminate risk.

Those firms will require that you fill out an application for the account. Standard KYC (know your client) paperwork and they will ask you to justify your funds so you'll need bank statements and financial paperwork to backup that the funds are legitimate. They will also run a background check on you to make sure you don't have any arrest record for money laundering or drug trafficking arrests. And keep in mind even if you were found not guilty, that might not matter. Some firms won't let you wire in if you have ANY arrest in money laundering or drug-related arrests. There is an international background check that all banks use.

The cash part of the transaction makes people nervous but if you have a skilled Escribano they can help you eliminate the possible risks. I have purchased over 600+ properties in Buenos Aires over the past 22 years all without any issues at all.

Wow! 600 purchases??? I sent you a PM if you don't mind answering when you have time.

You can use a reputable stablecoin not a shitcoin.

Can you guys keep this topic on cash. NO owners have any desire other than cash so that is my problem at hand. I don't want to clutter this talking about shitcoins.

 

[earlyretirement]

Thank you for these links and advice. Very helpful.


Thank you! Extremely helpful advice. I sent you a PM if you can see when you get a chance.

Wow! 600 purchases??? I sent you a PM if you don't mind answering when you have time.


Can you guys keep this topic on cash. NO owners have any desire other than cash so that is my problem at hand. I don't want to clutter this talking about shitcoins.

@Todd yes it's been quite a ride in Buenos Aires the past 2 decades. I started buying at the bottom after the big corralito crash at the end of 2001. I know the cash part sounds crazy but you can definitely mitigate risks. I answered your PM.

Here is a photo of what the typical closing looks like. I took it at one of the closings I did several years ago. I think it was a $300,000 USD deal. My record cash deal was $3.5 million where the seller demanded to get paid in cash. I bought a building in Recoleta that I turned into a boutique hotel. It was surreal being in the basement of the bank with vacuum-packed cash from the USA Federal Reserve Bank.