Is the Expat party in Buenos Aires coming to an end?

[Wally]

I am curious in light of the increased price increases if any of you expats are planning to leave Argentina? My wife's family is here but for the first time in many years my wife has hinted that she would be open to moving out of Argentina. This was an eye opener to me on how bad things have become. I wouldn't be opposed to possibly moving since I only moved here due to my wife. But is anyone else leaving?

Wow! What a change. I know you have been here a long time like me. I am stuck here for family obligations. Used to love it. Don't hate it but I don't love it. But I am not sure how much I would love USA now. Every country has it's issues but my father is old and about ready to go into retirement home so would at least have a house to go to but I can't see my wife leaving her family here.

 

[Larry]

Are you still living in Buenos Aires? Thanks for being so concerned about all of us poor expats. Since it is so expensive hopefully you have left Argentina.

Yes still living here but probably will throw in the towel later this year. It is clear to me Milei will not improve things. He does not have the experience, too distracted, doesn't have enough support politically. Everything is 3X more expensive and to add to the misery the USD is worth less each month. He removed price controls and every company raised prices! He says inflation is slowing but it is just going back to the crazy high inflation it was before.

Look around! Look at prices of good coffee and bread and everything else. Utilities, healthcare, everything.

 

[Starfish]

I am curious in light of the increased price increases if any of you expats are planning to leave Argentina? My wife's family is here but for the first time in many years my wife has hinted that she would be open to moving out of Argentina. This was an eye opener to me on how bad things have become. I wouldn't be opposed to possibly moving since I only moved here due to my wife. But is anyone else leaving?

Leaving in August.

 

[Sunny]

I was planning to move down to BA although I never even been here yet. But trip kept getting delayed with the mosquito situation. And the more I think about it the more I see what a screwed up country it is if they can't even stock mosquito spray! And there is always dog poop on the sidewalks. I need to rethink things. Maybe Spain is better as I can get a digital nomad visa there and all of you are raving about how great it is there.

- Judging a country that's trying hard to fix its economy for its inability to stock mosquito spray during a dengue crisis that affects many LatAm areas is not fair.

- The dog poop problem is not as big as you make it sound. There are lots of dogs in this city and there are many older senior citizens who walk dogs and cannot bend to pick up their dog's poop, and yet the amount of dog poop you see on the streets is not commensurate at all with the number of dogs in the city. I have lived in CABA since last October, my husband and I walk no less than 10 km at least 6 days a week. We have walked all over Almagro, Caballito, Boedo, Colegiales, Villa Urquiza, all the Palermo divisions, Las Cañitas, Belgrano, and Centro (downtown) and we may go several blocks without seeing any dog poop.

- I have spent time in Spain and have long time friends living in Andalucía, Madrid, and Barcelona. The situation in Spain is NOT at all great. You do need to rethink things, particularly who and what you are paying attention to. Take the time to learn about Spain from its own people. If you speak Spanish, I'd recommend Mark Vidal to learn how really bad the financial situation is right now. Roberto Vaquero will tell you how bad the cultural situation -and crime- has gotten in the past few years. Also learn about how difficult it is to find a decent rental, how expensive it can be for newcomers needing furnished accommodations, and how expensive utilities are. Also find out about the many professionals (doctors, nurses, engineers, architects, teachers) who have gone to Spain with great hopes only to find themselves working shitty jobs that barely cover their rent and no light at the end of the tunnel. Everyday I'd see people lining up outside the Spanish embassy, desperate to get a citizenship by descent so they can use Spain as a stepping stone because everybody here has a friend or a relative who has gone to Spain only to come back empty handed after years of trying hard to save some money.

Europe is full of foreigners trying to make it and you are three years too late to live on the cheap almost anywhere.

 

[Starfish]

- Judging a country that's trying hard to fix its economy for its inability to stock mosquito spray during a dengue crisis that affects many LatAm areas is not fair.

- The dog poop problem is not as big as you make it sound. There are lots of dogs in this city and there are many older senior citizens who walk dogs and cannot bend to pick up their dog's poop, and yet the amount of dog poop you see on the streets is not commensurate at all with the number of dogs in the city. I have lived in CABA since last October, my husband and I walk no less than 10 km at least 6 days a week. We have walked all over Almagro, Caballito, Boedo, Colegiales, Villa Urquiza, all the Palermo divisions, Las Cañitas, Belgrano, and Centro (downtown) and we may go several blocks without seeing any dog poop.

- I have spent time in Spain and have long time friends living in Andalucía, Madrid, and Barcelona. The situation in Spain is NOT at all great. You do need to rethink things, particularly who and what you are paying attention to. Take the time to learn about Spain from its own people. If you speak Spanish, I'd recommend Mark Vidal to learn how really bad the financial situation is right now. Roberto Vaquero will tell you how bad the cultural situation -and crime- has gotten in the past few years. Also learn about how difficult it is to find a decent rental, how expensive it can be for newcomers needing furnished accommodations, and how expensive utilities are. Also find out about the many professionals (doctors, nurses, engineers, architects, teachers) who have gone to Spain with great hopes only to find themselves working shitty jobs that barely cover their rent and no light at the end of the tunnel. Everyday I'd see people lining up outside the Spanish embassy, desperate to get a citizenship by descent so they can use Spain as a stepping stone because everybody here has a friend or a relative who has gone to Spain only to come back empty handed after years of trying hard to save some money.

Europe is full of foreigners trying to make it and you are three years too late to live on the cheap almost anywhere.

This is a great post. Very true. I don't think too many desirable places are very cheap these days. However it is very difficult to find a decent paying job in Argentina as well. Many Argentines left Buenos Aires and they are doing quite well in Spain. I know many that left and much happier in Spain but you have very sage advice.

I agree the dog poop situation is mostly older senior citizens but I do wish it would improve. Paris had a similar issue many years ago but they solved it. Not sure I have much hope it will ever get solved in BA.

 

[Jenn]

- Judging a country that's trying hard to fix its economy for its inability to stock mosquito spray during a dengue crisis that affects many LatAm areas is not fair.

- The dog poop problem is not as big as you make it sound. There are lots of dogs in this city and there are many older senior citizens who walk dogs and cannot bend to pick up their dog's poop, and yet the amount of dog poop you see on the streets is not commensurate at all with the number of dogs in the city. I have lived in CABA since last October, my husband and I walk no less than 10 km at least 6 days a week. We have walked all over Almagro, Caballito, Boedo, Colegiales, Villa Urquiza, all the Palermo divisions, Las Cañitas, Belgrano, and Centro (downtown) and we may go several blocks without seeing any dog poop.

- I have spent time in Spain and have long time friends living in Andalucía, Madrid, and Barcelona. The situation in Spain is NOT at all great. You do need to rethink things, particularly who and what you are paying attention to. Take the time to learn about Spain from its own people. If you speak Spanish, I'd recommend Mark Vidal to learn how really bad the financial situation is right now. Roberto Vaquero will tell you how bad the cultural situation -and crime- has gotten in the past few years. Also learn about how difficult it is to find a decent rental, how expensive it can be for newcomers needing furnished accommodations, and how expensive utilities are. Also find out about the many professionals (doctors, nurses, engineers, architects, teachers) who have gone to Spain with great hopes only to find themselves working shitty jobs that barely cover their rent and no light at the end of the tunnel. Everyday I'd see people lining up outside the Spanish embassy, desperate to get a citizenship by descent so they can use Spain as a stepping stone because everybody here has a friend or a relative who has gone to Spain only to come back empty handed after years of trying hard to save some money.

Europe is full of foreigners trying to make it and you are three years too late to live on the cheap almost anywhere.

Wonderful! I will Google these people you are suggesting. I am not trying to judge and I admit I haven't yet made it to BA for one reason or another -- mostly mosquitos!!

"going several blocks without seeing any dog poop" is not very assuring to me!!! That actually sounds very bad. My friend living there sends me photos each day.

I have been to Spain many times. I won't have any issues with finding a job. I work remote online so I can work anywhere. So non issue for me. It sounds like Argentina is even worse for jobs.

@Sunny I thank you for your advice. What are the 3 best things you like about BA and the 3 worst things? You have great posts.

 

[Sunny]

"going several blocks without seeing any dog poop" is not very assuring to me!!! That actually sounds very bad. My friend living there sends me photos each day.

Tell your friend to stop sending you yucky photos! 😂 Seriously now, you have to think about this: There are more dogs in CABA than in any city in the States, and any city with this many dogs will have a poop problem. I lived in Paris before they found a way to fix the dog poop problem there, which was much, much worse than what you see here. It was truly disgusting. There must be a way to fix the problem in CABA, but there are so many more important things that need to be fixed ASAP now.

Incidentally, we visited Tbilisi, Georgia, not long ago. You don't see many people walking dogs in that city, but you get to see lots of street dogs. The poor things look very sad, some will follow you if you make eye contact with them, some lie on the sidewalks, and there are packs that live in parks. And, you know what? You won't hear barking or see dog poop anywhere! 🤔

@Sunny I thank you for your advice.

You are welcome, glad to be of help. 😊

What are the 3 best things you like about BA and the 3 worst things? You have great posts.

Best:
Culture
Architecture
Public transportation
Bonus: That you can walk from one neighborhood to another, throughout the city, with ease. There are very few areas within CABA that one should avoid.

Worst:
The ridiculously annoying alarm system for garages they've implemented all over the city.
Barking dogs
Bureaucracy
Bonus: Most supermarkets are awful compared to the good ones in the States. Jumbo and Disco have hypermarkets that are OK, though.

 

[Vince]

Tell your friend to stop sending you yucky photos! 😂 Seriously now, you have to think about this: There are more dogs in CABA than in any city in the States, and any city with this many dogs will have a poop problem. I lived in Paris before they found a way to fix the dog poop problem there, which was much, much worse than what you see here. It was truly disgusting. There must be a way to fix the problem in CABA, but there are so many more important things that need to be fixed ASAP now.

Incidentally, we visited Tbilisi, Georgia, not long ago. You don't see many people walking dogs in that city, but you get to see lots of street dogs. The poor things look very sad, some will follow you if you make eye contact with them, some lie on the sidewalks, and there are packs that live in parks. And, you know what? You won't hear barking or see dog poop anywhere! 🤔

You are welcome, glad to be of help. 😊


Best:
Culture
Architecture
Public transportation
Bonus: That you can walk from one neighborhood to another, throughout the city, with ease. There are very few areas within CABA that one should avoid.

Worst:
The ridiculously annoying alarm system for garages they've implemented all over the city.
Barking dogs
Bureaucracy
Bonus: Most supermarkets are awful compared to the good ones in the States. Jumbo and Disco have hypermarkets that are OK, though.

I also used to go to Paris and I agree with you @Sunny the problem there was much worse. But I believe they used shaming and also heavy fines to fix the issue. Now when I go I don't see any. In the US, many people have dogs but everyone has a bag in their hand or pocket and will pick up after their dogs.

Good top/worst list Sunny. I also love the things you mentioned plus the nightlife and energy of the city. I totally agree with the negatives and the noise.

 

[Avocado]

It is not just the people leaving Argentina. Companies are throwing in towel too.

World’s top fertiliser maker plans exit from Argentina, Chile

Nutrien, the world’s largest maker of fertilisers, says it is looking to sell its retail operations in Argentina, Chile and Uruguay.

www.batimes.com.ar

 

[GlasgowJohn]

Plenty of dog poop in Spain last time I was there in October....

 

[Digital Nomad]

Plenty of dog poop in Spain last time I was there in October....

Maybe from all the Argentines leaving this country and moving to Spain! Ha!

 

[scout]

Best:
Culture
Architecture
Public transportation
Bonus: That you can walk from one neighborhood to another, throughout the city, with ease. There are very few areas within CABA that one should avoid.

You haven't mentioned anything about the people there...when someone thinks of a place to live its people are definitely a very important factor, I have heard that the people there are very friendly and always willing to help.
Unlike some stereotypes about European coldness, Porteños tend to be quite communicative and expressive, according to what I researched. I also read that social life is very important in Buenos Aires, so I would like to get a little bit of that culture.
Hopefully I will visit BA in a few months. 🙂

 

[Stan]

You haven't mentioned anything about the people there...when someone thinks of a place to live its people are definitely a very important factor, I have heard that the people there are very friendly and always willing to help.
Unlike some stereotypes about European coldness, Porteños tend to be quite communicative and expressive, according to what I researched. I also read that social life is very important in Buenos Aires, so I would like to get a little bit of that culture.
Hopefully I will visit BA in a few months. 🙂

Agreed. I could never just move to somewhere that is only cheap but I didn't like the people or city. Some people are always chasing the cheapest place. BA is still affordable compared to comparable nice major cities. At least to me anyway. Not the bargain it was before. Far from it but I still love the city. I have never had any problems in BA. @scout where do you live now?

 

[scout]

Agreed. I could never just move to somewhere that is only cheap but I didn't like the people or city. Some people are always chasing the cheapest place. BA is still affordable compared to comparable nice major cities. At least to me anyway. Not the bargain it was before. Far from it but I still love the city. I have never had any problems in BA. @scout where do you live now?

Hey Stan! I agree with you! I currently live in Chicago, but I am very attracted to Latin American cultures, so I try to learn and travel when I can.

 

[earlyretirement]

You haven't mentioned anything about the people there...when someone thinks of a place to live its people are definitely a very important factor, I have heard that the people there are very friendly and always willing to help.
Unlike some stereotypes about European coldness, Porteños tend to be quite communicative and expressive, according to what I researched. I also read that social life is very important in Buenos Aires, so I would like to get a little bit of that culture.
Hopefully I will visit BA in a few months. 🙂

Absolutely great points here. I've never had any issues at all in Buenos Aires in 22 years of visiting and living here. I always loved interacting with the locals. Part of it is just being able to communicate with them or making the effort. I actually think that Buenos Aires citizens are much like some of their European ancestors. Majority of the people in Argentina are originally from Spain or Italy. The people in Buenos Aires aren't as warm and kind as many other countries in Latin America. I find people overall are warmer in other countries. Still, never had any issues. The people are warmer and friendlier outside of Buenos Aires in smaller towns from my experience.

Social life is very important in Argentina. Friendships and family are very important. People take time out to spend time having coffees/lunches/dinners more in Buenos Aires vs. USA. When I'm in town in Argentina I spend just about every day meeting up with friends there. That isn't the case in the USA where it's not as often.

Agreed. I could never just move to somewhere that is only cheap but I didn't like the people or city. Some people are always chasing the cheapest place. BA is still affordable compared to comparable nice major cities. At least to me anyway. Not the bargain it was before. Far from it but I still love the city. I have never had any problems in BA. @scout where do you live now?

Agree with this completely. I've been all over the world in many countries and many hundreds of cities and while some places are ok to visit, I would never want to live there. Different strokes for different folks. While it's important to be able to live somewhere you can afford, I don't think it should only be where you can afford. You can be miserable doing this if you're only going where you can afford.

 

[Sunny]

You haven't mentioned anything about the people there...when someone thinks of a place to live its people are definitely a very important factor, I have heard that the people there are very friendly and always willing to help.
Unlike some stereotypes about European coldness, Porteños tend to be quite communicative and expressive, according to what I researched. I also read that social life is very important in Buenos Aires, so I would like to get a little bit of that culture.
Hopefully I will visit BA in a few months. 🙂

The first thing I mentioned: Culture. Argentina's culture (not just CABA's, the whole country's) is wonderful. What you have heard about Argentines is true and when you visit you will be delighted to experience it in person.

In Spain, for example, it may take several years for locals to invite you over. Whereas in Argentina, if you happen to get acquainted with a local, you may get cordially invited to a backyard asado just days or weeks after making that acquaintance, even if you only manage to speak broken Castellano. And they don't expect you to bring anything, just mucho hambre. 😄

 

[Betsy Ross]

The first thing I mentioned: Culture. Argentina's culture (not just CABA's, the whole country's) is wonderful. What you have heard about Argentines is true and when you visit you will be delighted to experience it in person.

In Spain, for example, it may take several years for locals to invite you over. Whereas in Argentina, if you happen to get acquainted with a local, you may get cordially invited to a backyard asado just days or weeks after making that acquaintance, even if you only manage to speak broken Castellano. And they don't expect you to bring anything, just mucho hambre. 😄

I don't know about Spain as I never lived there but I agree with @Sunny about Argentina. When I first moved here I was fortunate to have a friend living here that had a nice group of friends. They invited me to an asado a week after arriving and it was probably that first asado that made me fall in love with Buenos Aires.

I actually don't think it is super easy to penetrate a big group of people here as many locals have their very close group of friends. But if you are lucky enough to meet a Porteño and get invited to an asado you can meet many people at them. I did that and went out for coffee with some people and got close with them. You bring a nice bottle of wine to an asado and you will keep getting invited back. 😉

 

[StatusNomadicus]

it doesn't sound too bad researching online

just don't leave your property unoccupied for too many days 😉

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780257357831782777

 

[earlyretirement]

just don't leave your property unoccupied for too many days 😉

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780257357831782777

Actually a ton of that is happening in the USA as well. Some states like Florida are changing the laws but it's problematic in states with people refusing to leave and the police doing nothing. Argentina has serious squatter rights too when tenants with a lease stop paying and stay in the property. That's why they all want a guarantor to co-sign. But I have a feeling if this happened in Argentina in many places they would just take a baseball bat to the squatter.

But many years ago one of my clients bought an old building in San Telmo. It was pretty huge. He was going to possibly build a hotel there. I suggested that they board up with bricks the entrances and windows. He didn't listen. About 300 people (mostly Peruvians) occupied the building and refused to leave. He had to go through the court system and it took 3 years. Even after he won the people refused to leave so the Argentine military had to come and get them out. It was in the news.

 

[FuturoBA]

just don't leave your property unoccupied for too many days 😉

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780257357831782777

Actually a ton of that is happening in the USA as well. Some states like Florida are changing the laws but it's problematic in states with people refusing to leave and the police doing nothing. Argentina has serious squatter rights too when tenants with a lease stop paying and stay in the property. That's why they all want a guarantor to co-sign. But I have a feeling if this happened in Argentina in many places they would just take a baseball bat to the squatter.

But many years ago one of my clients bought an old building in San Telmo. It was pretty huge. He was going to possibly build a hotel there. I suggested that they board up with bricks the entrances and windows. He didn't listen. About 300 people (mostly Peruvians) occupied the building and refused to leave. He had to go through the court system and it took 3 years. Even after he won the people refused to leave so the Argentine military had to come and get them out. It was in the news.

Florida has the right idea. I do hope they take a baseball bat to the low life squatters. Amazing how much rights they have and how difficult it is to get rid of them.