Real Estate Sales Looking for a Real Estate Agent

[MDirtBoy]

Hi everyone. Are there any Argentine Real Estate Agents on this site? Or, can you recommend a great local agent to me?

Requirement; have a bank account outside Argentina.

Thanks!

 

[TareantelaNapo]

What area are you looking ? It seems that many specialize in a specific area. Reynolds is the largest.

 

[earlyretirement]

Hi everyone. Are there any Argentine Real Estate Agents on this site? Or, can you recommend a great local agent to me?

Requirement; have a bank account outside Argentina.

Thanks!

I'm not sure why you are asking for this but it sounds as if you want to transfer funds to their account at the closing.

I do NOT recommend that. Make sure you bring your funds in legally to purchase a property and that it's all documented. (Unless of course you have a DNI and are a permanent resident). Because as a non-resident foreigner, you will have to apply for a permit to sell your property from AFIP and they are asking to see how you brought in the funds.

So best to do everything legally in the white.

 

[CarliNeces]

Because as a non-resident foreigner, you will have to apply for a permit to sell your property from AFIP and they are asking to see how you brought in the funds.

So best to do everything legally in the white.

What if you are a legal resident with DNI (but not paying taxes because of various legal reasons) and have no intentions of selling after buying the property for at least 10-15 years.

Whats the best way to bring in the money?

 

[earlyretirement]

Because as a non-resident foreigner, you will have to apply for a permit to sell your property from AFIP and they are asking to see how you brought in the funds.

So best to do everything legally in the white.

What if you are a legal resident with DNI (but not paying taxes because of various legal reasons) and have no intentions of selling after buying the property for at least 10-15 years.

Whats the best way to bring in the money?

If this is the case, do what the locals do and just use one of the many private exchange houses. Most of them if you have a relationship now are charging 0% commission to send funds in.

Of course it takes trust because as the sender you obviously don't want to take a risk and probably don't know anyone. You have to wire the funds first and then a few days later once it hits, you go to their office to pick up the cash.

But just be very careful who you use. (Please don't ask me as I don't refer out to the one I use and they aren't taking on new clients) but these aren't too hard to find. Just ask your trusted local friends. All the locals that have cash there use them.

That would be the best way to send in and completely free in the scenario you described.

 

[earlyretirement]

I believe I read in another post you said you were constantly entering Argentina due to work. Just save your passport(s) and in case later they change the law or something you are still protected if they ask where the source of the funds were how you got it to Argentina.

You can legally bring up to $10,000 US each time you enter. So each entry stamp in your passport buys you $10,000 in "cash". So that would be justifiable cash in the future if anyone ever asks.

Also, the laws could always change later. Who knows. But for now, locals with a DNI don't have to do anything special when they sell. Heck, many haven't even been paying their annual asset taxes each year.

I suspect there will come a day when the government forces Escribanos to make sure that the owner (even if they have a DNI) has paid the annual asset tax on the property. So far the only thing the Escribanos check for the locals is if they are up to date on their ABL bills.

But Argentina could collect a HUGE windfall if they made all locals pay their fair share of the asset taxes on the apartments each year like they do with foreigners.

 

[MDirtBoy]

Everything is in white. The area would be Recoleta and / or Palermo. Thanks!

 

[earlyretirement]

Everything is in white. The area would be Recoleta and / or Palermo. Thanks!

If everything is in "white" then you won't be able to wire the funds to the real estate agent's account abroad. If you did that, that would make this deal "black". Just so you know.

 

[CarliNeces]

I believe I read in another post you said you were constantly entering Argentina due to work. Just save your passport(s) and in case later they change the law or something you are still protected if they ask where the source of the funds were how you got it to Argentina.

You can legally bring up to $10,000 US each time you enter. So each entry stamp in your passport buys you $10,000 in "cash". So that would be justifiable cash in the future if anyone ever asks.

Also, the laws could always change later. Who knows. But for now, locals with a DNI don't have to do anything special when they sell. Heck, many haven't even been paying their annual asset taxes each year.

I suspect there will come a day when the government forces Escribanos to make sure that the owner (even if they have a DNI) has paid the annual asset tax on the property. So far the only thing the Escribanos check for the locals is if they are up to date on their ABL bills.

But Argentina could collect a HUGE windfall if they made all locals pay their fair share of the asset taxes on the apartments each year like they do with foreigners.

Yes, I could do that! Thanks! But wont they ask the sources of fund abroad? Or it suffice to say, I entered with them when I entered Argentina!

And where to store that cash? I make approximate 3 entries in Argentina every month. In six month, I could have enough to buy something for 200 K. But i would be very nervous trying to exchange so much money or carrying so much money to do a deal. i have never done any similar money dealing before in my life.

 

[earlyretirement]

Yes, I could do that! Thanks! But wont they ask the sources of fund abroad? Or it suffice to say, I entered with them when I entered Argentina!

And where to store that cash? I make approximate 3 entries in Argentina every month. In six month, I could have enough to buy something for 200 K. But i would be very nervous trying to exchange so much money or carrying so much money to do a deal. i have never done any similar money dealing before in my life.

Well, don't get me wrong. I'm NOT saying that I'd carry in all that money in cash. I'm only saying if you had to later, you could use the passport stamps to justify how the funds entered in Argentina.

However, with the way the financial markets now and with the cost effectively being 0% to send in funds to Argentina, I'd just wire it in if you're buying something.

No way I'd want to store all of that cash in Buenos Aires. I have before stored that much money when I sold my property. But I have very trusted relationships with several firms there. But not many people are going to be comfortable storing that much cash there in Buenos Aires.

You could open a safety deposit box at a big bank like HSBC. I've gone that route as well and held funds there and never had problems.

You wouldn't have to "exchange funds". Realistically any real estate deal is going to be in US dollars anyway. But I would just find a reputable firm and wire it in a few days before closing. Then all you have to do is schedule the closing and make it conditional that the closing will be at YOUR bank. So you don't even have to transport around any cash. It will be the seller of the property that will have to arrange a security guard.

When the cost is effectively 0% to wire in funds, if you don't have to worry later about how you got the funds in, it doesn't make sense not to go the "blue/black" route in the scenario you described. In fact, I wouldn't go the white route in your situation because it's going to cost you money with the spread you will lose being forced to convert it to pesos then possibly back to dollars as the seller of the property most likely will demand dollars.

 

[CarliNeces]

Well, don't get me wrong. I'm NOT saying that I'd carry in all that money in cash. I'm only saying if you had to later, you could use the passport stamps to justify how the funds entered in Argentina.

However, with the way the financial markets now and with the cost effectively being 0% to send in funds to Argentina, I'd just wire it in if you're buying something.

No way I'd want to store all of that cash in Buenos Aires. I have before stored that much money when I sold my property. But I have very trusted relationships with several firms there. But not many people are going to be comfortable storing that much cash there in Buenos Aires.

You could open a safety deposit box at a big bank like HSBC. I've gone that route as well and held funds there and never had problems.

You wouldn't have to "exchange funds". Realistically any real estate deal is going to be in US dollars anyway. But I would just find a reputable firm and wire it in a few days before closing. Then all you have to do is schedule the closing and make it conditional that the closing will be at YOUR bank. So you don't even have to transport around any cash. It will be the seller of the property that will have to arrange a security guard.

When the cost is effectively 0% to wire in funds, if you don't have to worry later about how you got the funds in, it doesn't make sense not to go the "blue/black" route in the scenario you described. In fact, I wouldn't go the white route in your situation because it's going to cost you money with the spread you will lose being forced to convert it to pesos then possibly back to dollars as the seller of the property most likely will demand dollars.

You mean to say, the exchange house would give me pesos when I wire the money? And then i would have to reconvert to dollars for the seller?

What if I find a American seller with a DNI and I just wore money USA to USA?

 

[earlyretirement]

Yes, I could do that! Thanks! But wont they ask the sources of fund abroad? Or it suffice to say, I entered with them when I entered Argentina!

And where to store that cash? I make approximate 3 entries in Argentina every month. In six month, I could have enough to buy something for 200 K. But i would be very nervous trying to exchange so much money or carrying so much money to do a deal. i have never done any similar money dealing before in my life.

Well, legally you are supposed to declare any assets you have outside of Argentina when you become a permanent resident and get your DNI. But the reality is that NO ONE in Argentina does this. Many wealthy Porteños have assets abroad and almost none of them declare it.

But AFIP won't hassle you as long as you can justify you brought in the funds legally. If you're going in and out of Argentina all the time this would work as far as the justification.

And for all they know, you have a safe deposit box of gold coins back in the USA (or wherever you go for work). And you cash some in each entry to Argentina. They won't hassle you.

I've had non-resident friends that had a random audit when they sold their properties to see how their funds entered Argentina when they brought their properties. The passport entry stamps worked for all of them.

In your situation if you have a DNI, when you go to sell your property you can without getting any authorization from AFIP so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[earlyretirement]

You mean to say, the exchange house would give me pesos when I wire the money? And then i would have to reconvert to dollars for the seller?

What if I find a American seller with a DNI and I just wore money USA to USA?

Nope. The cuevas that you wire funds to will give you DOLLARS! You won't lose ANYTHING on the spread at all! And trust me...any seller would rather take dollars vs. pesos so that will be a NON ISSUE. You won't have to do any conversion going the blue route. Going the white route you WILL lose on the spread because if you go with a white money exchange firm, they will have to convert it to pesos so you will lose on that spread.

If you find a seller with a DNI and an offshore fund they will GLADLY accept the funds abroad. But realistically how it would work is they will say on the title deed you paid the funds in cash in Argentina. But the thing you really need to consider is if you can justify how you got this cash to Argentina. Either that or find an Escribano that will allow you to declare on the title deed that you're wiring abroad.

The biggest issue will be the seller (Porteño) has NOT declared this offshore account and will NOT want AFIP to know about it so most likely they will ask you to say you paid it in cash in Buenos Aires. They will NOT want to have their account disclosed on the title deed because then AFIP will know about it.

It's complex like most things in Argentina. But tons of transactions going on like that.

 

[MDirtBoy]

If everything is in "white" then you won't be able to wire the funds to the real estate agent's account abroad. If you did that, that would make this deal "black". Just so you know.

I'm not wiring funds from Argentina to an offshore account.

 

[earlyretirement]

I'm not wiring funds from Argentina to an offshore account.

OK..I was just confused because in your original post you mentioned, "Requirement; have a bank account outside Argentina."

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[EmirJasd]

Yes, I could do that! Thanks! But wont they ask the sources of fund abroad? Or it suffice to say, I entered with them when I entered Argentina!

And where to store that cash? I make approximate 3 entries in Argentina every month. In six month, I could have enough to buy something for 200 K. But i would be very nervous trying to exchange so much money or carrying so much money to do a deal. i have never done any similar money dealing before in my life.

yes, you would need to show the withdrawls from your account abroad, and if you are a resident you would need to have declared that account and paid taxes on it

another option is to do a trade with someone. I recently did the same thing to get money out of the country - I think there are quite a few people selling and leaving now. we did it with an escribano as a "prestamo" in a "contrato de mutuo" and now (with a copy of my escritura) she has legal proof of how she obtained dollars in the country to buy her apartment. and she transferred the money from her US account to my US account - it worked out great for both of us.

 

[earlyretirement]

yes, you would need to show the withdrawls from your account abroad, and if you are a resident you would need to have declared that account and paid taxes on it

another option is to do a trade with someone. I recently did the same thing to get money out of the country - I think there are quite a few people selling and leaving now. we did it with an escribano as a "prestamo" in a "contrato de mutuo" and now (with a copy of my escritura) she has legal proof of how she obtained dollars in the country to buy her apartment. and she transferred the money from her US account to my US account - it worked out great for both of us.

Not necessarily true. My friend that did it that way just said he sold gold coins. Of course he wasn't a resident.

There are a LOT of shades of grey. But this I do know.... I don't know of ANY Porteños that get hassled when they sell their property or anyone with a DNI for that matter.

 

[EmirJasd]

Not necessarily true. My friend that did it that way just said he sold gold coins. Of course he wasn't a resident.

There are a LOT of shades of grey. But this I do know.... I don't know of ANY Porteños that get hassled when they sell their property or anyone with a DNI for that matter.

true, I just sold on a DNI even though I bought on a passport and had no problems. But the value of my apt was under the limit for needing a COTI, which, I believe, is the key in that equation.

 

[earlyretirement]

true, I just sold on a DNI even though I bought on a passport and had no problems. But the value of my apt was under the limit for needing a COTI, which, I believe, is the key in that equation.

Definitely Heather having the DNI makes all the difference in the world. AFIP is becoming difficult on granting those non-resident permits. Even for people that have been paying all taxes.

Definitely it helps not having to do the COTI but really it's not a big deal because you can always revise the COTI lower right before a sale. It happens all the time and sellers use the excuse they had to lower the price to sell.

Having a DNI certainly helps but people really need to think about the downsides of having a DNI as well. Especially the worldwide tax on assets.

 

[LiamJunior]

I sold an apartment early this year to foreigners and got the funds (usd) wired to a foreign account, I don't live in Argentina either though. So perhaps buy from a foreigner? I had no issues with getting the AFIP, but rules may have changed?