Real Estate Sales No negotiation: why there is almost no room to discuss the price of a home in a real estate transaction - Infobae

[FuturoBA]

I am SO jealous of you @Uncle Wong. I remember reading about you buying your place in Palermo. How has the experience been so far? I am still tempted to buy something and just rent it out. I am just afraid if I wait until I am ready I will be paying so much more in the future. I am going to try to come down with my mom.

She said she may loan me the money to buy a small apartment or buy it with me. So I am trying to schedule another trip with her. I did not know so many people fell in love with the city too. I can't wait to read some of your posts once you live here.

I think you were asking me but tagged Uncle Wong (I get it all of us expatsba members look alike lol), but I'm still waiting on the deed and renting it out. With the rise in HOA and last tenant, don't know what he was doing -maybe mining bitcoin- I broke even for the last few months. I always knew though it wasn't to maximize profits, but to hold over until I come down.

But if he is paying that much the value much be very expensive no? I don't know anything about property tax rates. As I understand it, it is a percentage value of the property in the USA? $20,000 in property taxes? Probably it is multi million dollar property? If you have an expensive property in Argentina you will also pay asset tax. Argentina is a very high tax country.

I would guess if you have the same value property in Argentina your taxes might be more or less the same. Of course you don't need such an opulent property in BA. It would be difficult to find a multi million dollar property. Maybe in Puerto Madero or Nordelta. But your expenses will probably be similar to the States. Condo fees jumped up this year.


The USA sounds very expensive but Argentina is not a cheap place anymore. Agree that Argentina is much cheaper than US but not sure for how long.

Not yet in the millions but probably close to it.

 

[FuturoBA]

You all are very fortunate! When I bought 15 years ago there was not much information at all. I didn't know there were companies to help with all of this. It was very stressful. Several deals fell apart. Had to wire in cash. That part probably was the most stressful of all. I had to wire in to an unknown bank account and cross my fingers that the cash wouldn't disappear. Then had to get the cash and the seller demanded to close at her lawyer's office. So I had to arrange to transport all of that cash. I had to pay a huge fee to get the cash into Argentina and then another fee to get the cash to the closing.

I felt like I was in a spy movie. 🤣 Everything worked out ok but it was probably the most stressful process of my life.

If I had half the stress or situations that you or many others here had, I doubt I would have bought. Mine was pretty straight forward and even then I had second thoughts. It's crazy that when someone is willing to spend so much money, transferring it becomes the sticking point.

 

[earlyretirement]

It is a very odd process and you will have a number of uncomfortable moments, but so far so good at least in our case. Obviously we'll feel a lot better when we have possession in a few years but everything with BuySellBA and GyD has been very above board.

Definitely. I've been doing this for 23 years buying real estate here and also helping many foreigners buy here and definitely it's a very different process here. But we try to make it easy and safe. I can't tell you how many people call my office on a weekly basis because they tried buying real estate alone here or only trusting their real estate. You have to be very careful here. It's not like the USA or developed countries. I've been buying with GyD for 23 years and they have been around 40+ years. Never had any issues. I would never buy with any developer that hasn't been around in Argentina at least 25 years because if they know how to ride out cycles it means they have already experienced the toughest times and know how to deal with inflation.

Petey that was my preference too but all the new construction projects I liked are far from finishing and I didn't want to wait. Or I liked the units but did not like the location. All the older properties I liked either needed a ton of renovations or I did not like the area. It sounds daunting a renovation in Argentina and I don't want to take on that task.

I told my realtor to limit properties where the seller had a foreign bank account but so far all the places I looked everyone still wants cash. It is amazing even people that have US dollar accounts there don't trust the banks much. And I spoke to an American that had residency here and he wired cash down to a USD account he had and he said his funds got tied up for a few weeks.

I'm told once the currency controls end then it will be different but I wonder if people will still trust the banks? Seems like even if the currency controls end if locals don't trust the banks they might still demand cash? @earlyretirement is this correct?

There is no way to filter by sellers with foreign bank accounts when you search other than to just ask each individual listing agent if they know of properties like that. Almost all sellers still want to get paid with cash. My company has made 5 offers in the past 2 weeks from private individuals and we are going through the process to purchase and ALL demand cash. Some are buying bigger properties. Some are downgrading to smaller properties but they all want cash. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Even after currency controls are lifted there are a lot of locals that just simply don't trust the banking system and will demand cash.

 

[CraigM]

It's crazy that when someone is willing to spend so much money, transferring it becomes the sticking point.

That is exactly right and kind of sums up the nuttiness of Argentine commerce after decades of poor government. I really admire locals' ability to deal with it all and keep moving forward, but if they start to believe that a better way is possible and can stay on that path...

 

[earlyretirement]

If I had half the stress or situations that you or many others here had, I doubt I would have bought. Mine was pretty straight forward and even then I had second thoughts. It's crazy that when someone is willing to spend so much money, transferring it becomes the sticking point.

At least yours was fairly straightforward. It's very easy in the USA and other first-world countries because you have legal recourse and funds are typically escrowed. That is not the case here. You only have one chance to do everything right and many foreigners are just winging it.

Definitely it's frustrating to have to pay to get funds into the country. And with the currency controls still in place it can become confusing. But I will never understand some people that would risk getting robbed/killed bringing in hundreds of thousands of dollars. I did a consultation with an American that is buying a $300,000+ property and the seller is demanding cash and he refuses to pay any fees to wire it in. I told him he could carry it on a plane and as long as you declare over $10,000 you can but almost with 99% certainty the customs officer will call his friends to rob you on your way from the airport. This just isn't smart and many people lose sight of risk/rewards.

We have pretty much seen it all here including someone that got about $50,000 USD swapped out by customs at EZE. It is NOT wise carrying around this much cash into EZE.

 

[RN in BA]

I think you were asking me but tagged Uncle Wong (I get it all of us expatsba members look alike lol), but I'm still waiting on the deed and renting it out. With the rise in HOA and last tenant, don't know what he was doing -maybe mining bitcoin- I broke even for the last few months. I always knew though it wasn't to maximize profits, but to hold over until I come down.



Not yet in the millions but probably close to it.

Oopsie. Sorry. I heard the HOA fees jumped up. My friend there said some people are paying more now in HOA fees in buildings with amenities than the actual rent. I don't know if this is true or not. Maybe she was joking. She has a 1 bedroom apartment in Palermo Hollywood and she pays over $400 dollars now in building expenses. But it's a fancy building with pool and gym and a doorman and security.

How much was your electricity bill @FuturoBA? I am worried that BA will become as expensive as the US. Can I ask you how much your total monthly expenses are in your apartment? How big is it? What do you pay for electricity, HOA, and other utilities? I know all are different but since you are a real life use case. Thanks!

 

[CraigM]

@CraigM did they have an account outside of Argentina? All the developers I am talking to do not have foreign accounts. Did you have to pay any wire transfer fee? Or I guess you sent to a USD account? I am having a hard time with the fact that I'd have to pay extra just to get money here but it seems impossible to get cash here free. I'm paying to cuevas to get it here now.

We did everything through BuySellBA and GyD, I would suggest you talk to them directly. We bought our house in the US without a realtor (agents can be very useful here but in our case all we needed was a real estate lawyer). It took me about 15 minutes poking around Argentina's system though to know you need local expertise. Whatever extra fees you might pay will save you hundreds of hours of time, and you probably still won't know all the risks. Bringing piles cash through customs in a poor corrupt country has got to be the craziest idea I've ever heard.

 

[Piranha]

it never occurred to me someone would try to carry that much cash in the plane. That sounds like a recipe for disaster!

I would just factor that into the cost of buying. That sounds like a huge risk!

Can’t X-ray machines detect cash? I heard they can. Just wow!

 

[FuturoBA]

Oopsie. Sorry. I heard the HOA fees jumped up. My friend there said some people are paying more now in HOA fees in buildings with amenities than the actual rent. I don't know if this is true or not. Maybe she was joking. She has a 1 bedroom apartment in Palermo Hollywood and she pays over $400 dollars now in building expenses. But it's a fancy building with pool and gym and a doorman and security.

How much was your electricity bill @FuturoBA? I am worried that BA will become as expensive as the US. Can I ask you how much your total monthly expenses are in your apartment? How big is it? What do you pay for electricity, HOA, and other utilities? I know all are different but since you are a real life use case. Thanks!

Expense reports from my property manager a bit behind esp w the holidays, but expensas/HOAs and utilities have jumped. From a few months ago to now, expensas/HOAs went from roughly $100 to $200 for my 37sm studio. It has a pool and small gym, no doorman but with remote security camera monitoring. Electric in June went from about $10 to over $150 each month, but that also coincides with new tenant doing who knows what. My bill here in TX barely reaches $150 even in the middle of the TX summer heat.

 

[Vince]

Expense reports from my property manager a bit behind esp w the holidays, but expensas/HOAs and utilities have jumped. From a few months ago to now, expensas/HOAs went from roughly $100 to $200 for my 37sm studio. It has a pool and small gym, no doorman but with remote security camera monitoring. Electric in June went from about $10 to over $150 each month, but that also coincides with new tenant doing who knows what. My bill here in TX barely reaches $150 even in the middle of the TX summer heat.

Electricity rates went up a lot! Unfortunately they probably will still go up more. How many kwh is that @FuturoBA? Ours the past year skyrocketed as well. We never used to look or care but the past few months before we moved it also went up a lot. We switched from gas to AC/heater split units and that killed us.

 

[RN in BA]

Expense reports from my property manager a bit behind esp w the holidays, but expensas/HOAs and utilities have jumped. From a few months ago to now, expensas/HOAs went from roughly $100 to $200 for my 37sm studio. It has a pool and small gym, no doorman but with remote security camera monitoring. Electric in June went from about $10 to over $150 each month, but that also coincides with new tenant doing who knows what. My bill here in TX barely reaches $150 even in the middle of the TX summer heat.

$10 to $150!!!! Holy smokes. HOA doubling in a few months? That is crazy. Will it keep going up?

 

[Piranha]

Expense reports from my property manager a bit behind esp w the holidays, but expensas/HOAs and utilities have jumped. From a few months ago to now, expensas/HOAs went from roughly $100 to $200 for my 37sm studio. It has a pool and small gym, no doorman but with remote security camera monitoring. Electric in June went from about $10 to over $150 each month, but that also coincides with new tenant doing who knows what. My bill here in TX barely reaches $150 even in the middle of the TX summer heat.

Pools I heard were killer for HOA bills. My friend is ending her contract and paying a penalty because of the pool. $200 seems very high for that size with no security. Usually the security guard is what kills HOA fees.

I would be curious to see how much usage that is. My friends all complain how expensive their bills are. It is sweltering today.

Futuro this is for 2 months of usage?

 

[FuturoBA]

Electricity rates went up a lot! Unfortunately they probably will still go up more. How many kwh is that @FuturoBA? Ours the past year skyrocketed as well. We never used to look or care but the past few months before we moved it also went up a lot. We switched from gas to AC/heater split units and that killed us.

I don't have the actual bill, just the spread sheet, so I can't calculate it just yet. I do want to check it to see if those numbers are correct.

$10 to $150!!!! Holy smokes. HOA doubling in a few months? That is crazy. Will it keep going up?

That's the big question is I don't think anybody can really say. I believe it was @earlyretirement said close to 1/4 or 1/3 are behind on their expensas. Has anyone seen or know if rates of delinquent or delayed payments add up do the raise expensas for the other owners to make up the difference and to cover operating costs? I know some have mentioned when the delinquent owners sale part of the process goes into paying back what they owe, but what happens until then?

Pools I heard were killer for HOA bills. My friend is ending her contract and paying a penalty because of the pool. $200 seems very high for that size with no security. Usually the security guard is what kills HOA fees.

I would be curious to see how much usage that is. My friends all complain how expensive their bills are. It is sweltering today.

Futuro this is for 2 months of usage?

That's right, that may be utilities for 2 months but will see if I can get the bill to verify.

I was hoping that w/o security/doorman HOA wouldn't jump too high as I've heard the same -they can be a big chunk of the fees.

 

[Blockchain]

it never occurred to me someone would try to carry that much cash in the plane. That sounds like a recipe for disaster!

I would just factor that into the cost of buying. That sounds like a huge risk!

Can’t X-ray machines detect cash? I heard they can. Just wow!

Yes, if you look online it says they can detect cash. Carrying large amounts of cash just seems dumb like they deserve to get robbed!

Can airport scanners detect cash - MatriXcope

Airport scanners, specifically X-ray scanners, are primarily designed to detect items that pose a threat to aviation security, such as weapons, explosives, and other contraband. However, they can also detect cash, albeit indirectly.

matrixcope.com

Expense reports from my property manager a bit behind esp w the holidays, but expensas/HOAs and utilities have jumped. From a few months ago to now, expensas/HOAs went from roughly $100 to $200 for my 37sm studio. It has a pool and small gym, no doorman but with remote security camera monitoring. Electric in June went from about $10 to over $150 each month, but that also coincides with new tenant doing who knows what. My bill here in TX barely reaches $150 even in the middle of the TX summer heat.

Read about the 100%+ inflation in HOA bills. In what time period @FuturoBA did it jump up? I am assuming steadily? Have the rates stopped going up? I read that inflation is slowing down now so I assume they are only going up the 3% a month? That jump up in electricity sounds brutal but it also is shifting from spring to summer so maybe they didn't use AC/heat before and now massive use?

I don't have the actual bill, just the spread sheet, so I can't calculate it just yet. I do want to check it to see if those numbers are correct.

That's the big question is I don't think anybody can really say. I believe it was @earlyretirement said close to 1/4 or 1/3 are behind on their expensas. Has anyone seen or know if rates of delinquent or delayed payments add up do the raise expensas for the other owners to make up the difference and to cover operating costs? I know some have mentioned when the delinquent owners sale part of the process goes into paying back what they owe, but what happens until then?

That's right, that may be utilities for 2 months but will see if I can get the bill to verify.

I was hoping that w/o security/doorman HOA wouldn't jump too high as I've heard the same -they can be a big chunk of the fees.

Actually $150 for 2 months use doesn't sound too bad. If it is a rental unit you have to figure people just leave all the AC or stuff on. I know I shouldn't but I do that when I'm in the hotel. If it has one of those card readers I always ask for an extra card to keep my AC going as I like it cold. I figure I'm paying for it. Probably the same with your apartment.

 

[earlyretirement]

Pools I heard were killer for HOA bills. My friend is ending her contract and paying a penalty because of the pool. $200 seems very high for that size with no security. Usually the security guard is what kills HOA fees.

I would be curious to see how much usage that is. My friends all complain how expensive their bills are. It is sweltering today.

Futuro this is for 2 months of usage?

Yes, pools are a cause of higher HOA bills. These days on investment properties I try to avoid them. They are in theory nice to have but I look at Buenos Aires like New York City. Not exactly the place where people expect to go swimming even in the summer. It's a nice to have but totally unnecessary for rentals. Not many rental guests end up using them. I have one in a small 1 bedroom loft I have in Palermo Hollywood and my HOA bill is about 400,000 pesos. But it does have 24/7 security guards which are the big killer on HOA bills.

I don't have the actual bill, just the spread sheet, so I can't calculate it just yet. I do want to check it to see if those numbers are correct.

That's the big question is I don't think anybody can really say. I believe it was @earlyretirement said close to 1/4 or 1/3 are behind on their expensas. Has anyone seen or know if rates of delinquent or delayed payments add up do the raise expensas for the other owners to make up the difference and to cover operating costs? I know some have mentioned when the delinquent owners sale part of the process goes into paying back what they owe, but what happens until then?

That's right, that may be utilities for 2 months but will see if I can get the bill to verify.

I was hoping that w/o security/doorman HOA wouldn't jump too high as I've heard the same -they can be a big chunk of the fees.

@FuturoBA,

That probably sounds right with usage. I got bills a little higher than that for a 1 bedroom unit in Recoleta before. I'll see what the bill is and post a copy here after 2 months use of summer usage but I'm expecting it to go way up. Ask your property manager to scan a copy of your electricity bill. You can sign up to get e-statements from the utility companies here. I have both Edesur and Edenor which are the two main companies here with two different apartments and I get the bill each month. Even if your property manager is paying your bills, it's a good idea to get your own bill. (Trust but verify). I have owned properties all over Latin America including Mexico and I always do that.

In new buildings they should have a "fondo de reservas" which is a reserve fund. When you bought your property you typically have to pay an extra month of bills to cover for any emergencies or owners not paying on time, etc. Did you pay that? Some administrations are horribly managed and never collect this. You should really see a copy of your HOA bill each month. Again trust but verify. Most administrations will email that to you so you can see it. Even if you have a property manager, it's always a good idea to request your administrator email you this. I do this for every property I own around the world.

On your monthly HOA bill in Buenos Aires they always list who is late in your building and how much they are late by. It's a way to shame neighbors into paying on time. You can see the cumulative late amount they are paying.

If people get too far behind or owners stop paying the bills and there are no reserve funds then the other owners will get stuck. That has seldom happened to me but did happen to me on one apartment in Recoleta that I own. We all got our pro-rata share back when the apartment was sold.

 

[Petey]

It is a very odd process and you will have a number of uncomfortable moments, but so far so good at least in our case. Obviously we'll feel a lot better when we have possession in a few years but everything with BuySellBA and GyD has been very above board.

I just met with GyD today in their office and then they took me out to lunch. I met all 3 of the owners of the company. Very professional people. They showed me some of the projects they have built. Over 70 buildings including a nice highrise 30-story tower next to their office which they showed me some units.

I walked by the site of the new project they are putting up and a great location right at the start of Palermo Hollywood which is very trendy. It is close to parks too and a big grocery store. The area is very nice and central. We made an offer on the 7th floor unit. So it looks like at least some of us on the board will all own in this building.

We wanted something that was already built as we want to come back in a few months but this seems like a good alternative to get our foot in the door and see how the process goes. Thank you all for the advice. This all happened quickly but seems like fate.