What all is included in monthly HOA expenses on ZonaProp listings or for condos in Buenos Aires?

[Digital Nomad]

I was curious what all is included in the monthly expensas for listings I see on Zonaprop? For example, I am looking at this $295,000 USD property and it says the monthly HOA fees are only 55,000 pesos per month. Can that be right? I will ask my realtor but I was curious from those of you that own properties here in Buenos Aires what all is included in these monthly fees?

What attributes for some being so high for similar type properties in the same area? Some have similar type amenities but I have seen a wide range so it made me curious.

Thanks.

https://www.zonaprop.com.ar/propiedades/clasificado/veclapin-departamento-palermo-hollywood-52250764.html

 

[BuySellBA]

For this particular listing that is what it says it is but when buying a property and you get serious, you should ask to see a copy of the last actual month's expenses so you can verify that it's actually the amount. Some listings are errors or can be drastically different.

Monthly HOA fees can vastly differ even for similar-sized properties in the same area. The monthly fees go to pay any staff like doormen, security staff, cleaning of the common and general areas, insurance, cleaning supplies, fees to the property administrator, etc. Each individual property owner will have ABL bills for their properties as well that they are billed separately for. Obviously, the more staff that a building has, the more liabilities and expenses they will have.

Also, some buildings are very poorly managed and some buildings have really good property managers. The union for doormen is very strong and it is often times very difficult to fire staff even when they are horrible.

Each month, the building HOA will send you the actual expense and you can see the exact breakdown of that monthly expense. Typically the name of all the owners will be listed on the HOA as well as the amount each apartment owes. Some buildings are very poorly run and often times, there is fraud and abuse with some property administrators.

You should also pay special note to see if any property owners are behind in payments. It will show any owners that haven't paid or paid late. The health of a building HOA typically can be noted from looking at the actual HOA statement. You have to also consider how many units are in the building and the # of floors in the building as each owner will be a pro-rated % of the expenses based on the size of their property.

Many buildings have deadbeat owners that haven't paid their HOA fees in a long time and sometimes all the other owners will have to carry the weight of these owners typically until the property is sold. Sometimes this happens when the person dies. There is a lot on information to be gleaned from looking at the actual HOA statement.

On new construction buildings, typically the building will require an initial deposit for the reserve fund in the event that something happens. The "fondo de reservas" but you get this back once you sell the property.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Very good advice to look at the expensas. When I bought my condo it was much higher than what was listed on the real estate portals. In my building we had an elderly woman that did not pay in years but finally when she died her kids sold her property and there was a lien against the property by the HOA. They paid back many years worth of unpaid expensas.

 

[Vince]

For this particular listing that is what it says it is but when buying a property and you get serious, you should ask to see a copy of the last actual month's expenses so you can verify that it's actually the amount. Some listings are errors or can be drastically different.

Monthly HOA fees can vastly differ even for similar-sized properties in the same area. The monthly fees go to pay any staff like doormen, security staff, cleaning of the common and general areas, insurance, cleaning supplies, fees to the property administrator, etc. Obviously, the more staff that a building has, the more liabilities and expenses they will have.

Also, some buildings are very poorly managed and some buildings have really good property managers. The union for doormen is very strong and it is often times very difficult to fire staff even when they are horrible.

Each month, the building HOA will send you the actual expense and you can see the exact breakdown of that monthly expense. Typically the name of all the owners will be listed on the HOA as well as the amount each apartment owes. Some buildings are very poorly run and often times, there is fraud and abuse with some property administrators.

You should also pay special note to see if any property owners are behind in payments. It will show any owners that haven't paid or paid late. The health of a building HOA typically can be noted from looking at the actual HOA statement. You have to also consider how many units are in the building and the # of floors in the building as each owner will be a pro-rated % of the expenses based on the size of their property.

Many buildings have deadbeat owners that haven't paid their HOA fees in a long time and sometimes all the other owners will have to carry the weight of these owners typically until the property is sold. Sometimes this happens when the person dies. There is a lot on information to be gleaned from looking at the actual HOA statement.

This is absolutely correct. Many people prefer PH units because they do not have a monthly expense or it is very low. But the downside is if there is an issue you could be screwed with no one wanting to fix anything.

 

[Wally]

This is absolutely correct. Many people prefer PH units because they do not have a monthly expense or it is very low. But the downside is if there is an issue you could be screwed with no one wanting to fix anything.

^^^^THIS^^^

My first apartment in BA was a PH unit in Palermo. The main water pipe broke and none of my neighbors had the money to fix it. I had to end up paying to fix it and all of them agreed to pay me over 24 months. It was annoying but I had no other choice. Then the gas line needed to be changed. Needless to say after that I sold the property. Be careful when buying PH properties and many of them smell like they have humidity damage.

 

[MikeYoung]

For this particular listing that is what it says it is but when buying a property and you get serious, you should ask to see a copy of the last actual month's expenses so you can verify that it's actually the amount. Some listings are errors or can be drastically different.

Monthly HOA fees can vastly differ even for similar-sized properties in the same area. The monthly fees go to pay any staff like doormen, security staff, cleaning of the common and general areas, insurance, cleaning supplies, fees to the property administrator, etc. Each individual property owner will have ABL bills for their properties as well that they are billed separately for. Obviously, the more staff that a building has, the more liabilities and expenses they will have.

Also, some buildings are very poorly managed and some buildings have really good property managers. The union for doormen is very strong and it is often times very difficult to fire staff even when they are horrible.

Each month, the building HOA will send you the actual expense and you can see the exact breakdown of that monthly expense. Typically the name of all the owners will be listed on the HOA as well as the amount each apartment owes. Some buildings are very poorly run and often times, there is fraud and abuse with some property administrators.

You should also pay special note to see if any property owners are behind in payments. It will show any owners that haven't paid or paid late. The health of a building HOA typically can be noted from looking at the actual HOA statement. You have to also consider how many units are in the building and the # of floors in the building as each owner will be a pro-rated % of the expenses based on the size of their property.

Many buildings have deadbeat owners that haven't paid their HOA fees in a long time and sometimes all the other owners will have to carry the weight of these owners typically until the property is sold. Sometimes this happens when the person dies. There is a lot on information to be gleaned from looking at the actual HOA statement.

On new construction buildings, typically the building will require an initial deposit for the reserve fund in the event that something happens. The "fondo de reservas" but you get this back once you sell the property.

Thank you. This is really helpful to note. Quick question, if I sign a long term lease will I need to pay the HOA or will the owner?

 

[Wally]

Thank you. This is really helpful to note. Quick question, if I sign a long term lease will I need to pay the HOA or will the owner?

This is negotiated when you sign the long-term contract. Sometimes the owner pays and sometimes the tenant pays. Better if you can negotiate for the owner to pay as the inflation on expenses can be brutal or the building could have some issue or problem. If you are paying make sure to have some maximum clause or not paying if something goes wrong with the building. Set a maximum.

 

[Spend Thrift]

Thank you. This is really helpful to note. Quick question, if I sign a long term lease will I need to pay the HOA or will the owner?

I signed a year lease and negotiated for the owner to pay it.

This is negotiated when you sign the long-term contract. Sometimes the owner pays and sometimes the tenant pays. Better if you can negotiate for the owner to pay as the inflation on expenses can be brutal or the building could have some issue or problem. If you are paying make sure to have some maximum clause or not paying if something goes wrong with the building. Set a maximum.

This is exactly why I did not want to pay it. I see the monthly condo dues breakdown as they deliver it to my apartment and there is a LONG list of things that are included on it. You can see all the expenses all the owners are paying and some owners are far behind and late. There must be some reserve fund to cover the owners that do not pay on time because on mine I see some are behind many months.

 

[BuySellBA]

Here you can see an actual and updated monthly expense for one of the properties we have purchased and own. We have redacted personal information but other than that it is unedited. You can see what the typical HOA monthly expense breakdown looks like that you get from a building administration.

You can see each owner of the property as well as if they are behind on their monthly payments.

 

[Jenn]

Here you can see an actual and updated monthly expense for one of the properties we have purchased and own. We have redacted personal information but other than that it is unedited. You can see what the typical HOA monthly expense breakdown looks like that you get from a building administration.

You can see each owner of the property as well as if they are behind on their monthly payments.

Thank you for posting the example of the HOA bill. It is interesting to see a lot of people are behind on their payments! I am assuming "deuda" means debt? I don't know all of what those expenses are but it sure seems like a lot of expenses go into it.

 

[BuySellBA]

Thank you for posting the example of the HOA bill. It is interesting to see a lot of people are behind on their payments! I am assuming "deuda" means debt? I don't know all of what those expenses are but it sure seems like a lot of expenses go into it.

Yes, you are reading this bill correctly. You have a good eye. You will find that with the poor economy, more and more property owners are getting behind and not paying their bills on time each month. It is very normal that some pay a month behind but where you want to look for signs of trouble is if you are thinking of buying a property and you see HUGE spans of time that many people aren't paying. Because their problems can become your problems if they don't pay for years.

 

[Digital Nomad]

Here you can see an actual and updated monthly expense for one of the properties we have purchased and own. We have redacted personal information but other than that it is unedited. You can see what the typical HOA monthly expense breakdown looks like that you get from a building administration.

You can see each owner of the property as well as if they are behind on their monthly payments.

Thank you @BuySellBA for posting this actual bill! It is very helpful. I am looking at some properties and I asked the realtor to see a copy of the last bill to verify that it matches what they are advertising. But 2 times now both refused to allow to show it until I made an offer. Is this normal? It almost seems like they have something to hide. Why wouldn't they allow me to see it?

It is very helpful to see what they look like. It looks very detailed. Are all of them like this? Also, can you give me an idea of how big some of these properties are so I have an idea how much expenses are for the # of bedrooms? Thanks!

 

[MikeYoung]

What about the HOA bill for new construction. Since there is none yet, how do you handle that? Is it just a ballpark estimate they provide you? I don't see that listed on new construction properties online.

 

[BuySellBA]

Thank you @BuySellBA for posting this actual bill! It is very helpful. I am looking at some properties and I asked the realtor to see a copy of the last bill to verify that it matches what they are advertising. But 2 times now both refused to allow to show it until I made an offer. Is this normal? It almost seems like they have something to hide. Why wouldn't they allow me to see it?

It is very helpful to see what they look like. It looks very detailed. Are all of them like this? Also, can you give me an idea of how big some of these properties are so I have an idea how much expenses are for the # of bedrooms? Thanks!

You are welcome. You'll find that many realtors and property owners are reluctant to share HOA expenses ahead of an offer. On the HOA bill you can see the name of the property owner. Realtors are always paranoid that you will by-pass them and go directly to the owner. It is a strange dynamic. Also, owners don't like wasting time providing many documents until they know a buyer is true and genuine. So they will say to write up an offer (reserva) and then they will show the copy of the bill if the offer is accepted. I wouldn't say it's abnormal to not provide a copy of the HOA bill before a formal offer.

Most sellers and their realtors are a pain in the ass. To give you an idea on that HOA statement above the C units are about 60 sq. meters and the expenses are around 135,000 pesos per month. The HOA fees have actually gone DOWN over the past many years as the exchange rate has been so favorable with the US Dollar.

What about the HOA bill for new construction. Since there is none yet, how do you handle that? Is it just a ballpark estimate they provide you? I don't see that listed on new construction properties online.

On new construction, the builder will typically give you an ESTIMATE of the cost per sq. meter on the property but it's just an estimate. It will depend on what amenities and staff they have in the building. Many properties now are trying to get rid of doormen as that fee adds up. Some buildings are going to digital screens with remote security staff monitoring the door. Obviously buildings with amenities like pools, gyms, etc. will have higher HOA fees.

 

[Larry]

Here you can see an actual and updated monthly expense for one of the properties we have purchased and own. We have redacted personal information but other than that it is unedited. You can see what the typical HOA monthly expense breakdown looks like that you get from a building administration.

You can see each owner of the property as well as if they are behind on their monthly payments.

The bill you posted is much more detailed than my expensas I get each month for my apartment. We already have fired one building administrator as they were padding the expenses. Most of these companies are very shady.

 

[MikeAnton]

Thank you for posting this HOA bill and for the details about the size and amount you pay each month. That is helpful.

 

[Flamingo]

For this particular listing that is what it says it is but when buying a property and you get serious, you should ask to see a copy of the last actual month's expenses so you can verify that it's actually the amount. Some listings are errors or can be drastically different.

Monthly HOA fees can vastly differ even for similar-sized properties in the same area. The monthly fees go to pay any staff like doormen, security staff, cleaning of the common and general areas, insurance, cleaning supplies, fees to the property administrator, etc. Each individual property owner will have ABL bills for their properties as well that they are billed separately for. Obviously, the more staff that a building has, the more liabilities and expenses they will have.

Also, some buildings are very poorly managed and some buildings have really good property managers. The union for doormen is very strong and it is often times very difficult to fire staff even when they are horrible.

Each month, the building HOA will send you the actual expense and you can see the exact breakdown of that monthly expense. Typically the name of all the owners will be listed on the HOA as well as the amount each apartment owes. Some buildings are very poorly run and often times, there is fraud and abuse with some property administrators.

You should also pay special note to see if any property owners are behind in payments. It will show any owners that haven't paid or paid late. The health of a building HOA typically can be noted from looking at the actual HOA statement. You have to also consider how many units are in the building and the # of floors in the building as each owner will be a pro-rated % of the expenses based on the size of their property.

Many buildings have deadbeat owners that haven't paid their HOA fees in a long time and sometimes all the other owners will have to carry the weight of these owners typically until the property is sold. Sometimes this happens when the person dies. There is a lot on information to be gleaned from looking at the actual HOA statement.

On new construction buildings, typically the building will require an initial deposit for the reserve fund in the event that something happens. The "fondo de reservas" but you get this back once you sell the property.

Some great advice @BuySellBA ! I just read this post on the old forum. Yikes! It sounds like this poster bought in the wrong building! She should have checked this before buying. Lots of buildings in Buenos Aires are like this.

Troubles With Building Administration

There were months during the current administration that our paper liquidations were delivered as late as the 12th of the month, when the first expiration date for payment was the 10th. The one who calls herself the administration council is likely the one who decided that the consorcio needed...

baexpats.org

 

[Spend Thrift]

Some great advice @BuySellBA ! I just read this post on the old forum. Yikes! It sounds like this poster bought in the wrong building! She should have checked this before buying. Lots of buildings in Buenos Aires are like this.

Troubles With Building Administration

There were months during the current administration that our paper liquidations were delivered as late as the 12th of the month, when the first expiration date for payment was the 10th. The one who calls herself the administration council is likely the one who decided that the consorcio needed...

baexpats.org

Ouch, Not sure what that OP wants any of the neighbors to do. Sounds like everyone in the building is broke and not paying their bills. Even in my building I am noticing that people are starting to get behind in their monthly expenses. I am renting but I get the HOA bill every month under my door and I can see people paying late now.

 

[BuySellBA]

Some great advice @BuySellBA ! I just read this post on the old forum. Yikes! It sounds like this poster bought in the wrong building! She should have checked this before buying. Lots of buildings in Buenos Aires are like this.

Troubles With Building Administration

There were months during the current administration that our paper liquidations were delivered as late as the 12th of the month, when the first expiration date for payment was the 10th. The one who calls herself the administration council is likely the one who decided that the consorcio needed...

baexpats.org

This is why we gave the advice that we do. Before buying, we always check the health of the finances of the building HOA. Buying real estate in Buenos Aires isn't like in the USA or first world country. There are a lot of pitfalls here that you need to look out for. That poster most likely purchased in a building that already was plagued with issues. When a building is broke and no owners are willing to pony up cash to fix things there isn't too much you can do. Most administrators are horrible.

But there is a real risk if the building administration is 3 million pesos behind their water bill. Many HOA's include this in the HOA as there aren't separate meters in many buildings. Especially older buildings and the HOA is supposed to pay the water company, AySA. But some are just incompetent or corrupt and steal the money. Many of these administrations just go bankrupt and can't pay. So it is essential to check the financial health of a building besides just if the apartment is nice.

The judicial system doesn't work in Argentina so you have to avoid these types of properties from the start.

 

[BuySellBA]

Timely article.

Real Estate News - Expenses without brakes: They already average $100,000 per month and delinquencies increased - Infobae

Expenses without brakes: They already average $100,000 per month and delinquencies increased - Infobae Source: https://www.infobae.com/economia/2024/04/03/expensas-sin-freno-ya-promedian-100000-mensuales-y-aumento-la-morosidad/ April 3, 2024 The impact is the high monthly inflation...

www.expatsba.com