What could Milei do to convince haters like Avocado / Larry ?

[LyellLanatone]

Firstly want to say I respect Avocado and Larry and I have learned much from reading their Milei hating posts and the forum is better with them here

Just want to ask is there anything Milei could do to make you support him over a thieving bandit like Kristina ? And if so what ? You make intelligent but negative posts, so make a positive one and let's see, hypothetically what would have to happen for you to admit that Argentina is better with Milei ? Thankyiu!!

 

[Betsy Ross]

Firstly want to say I respect Avocado and Larry and I have learned much from reading their Milei hating posts and the forum is better with them here

Just want to ask is there anything Milei could do to make you support him over a thieving bandit like Kristina ? And if so what ? You make intelligent but negative posts, so make a positive one and let's see, hypothetically what would have to happen for you to admit that Argentina is better with Milei ? Thankyiu!!

I actually like reading opposing view points. I don't like reading forums where everyone has the same view and drowns out opposing views. They have been very quiet lately. Not sure if it is because there is a lot of praise lately from Milei and inflation is going down. Some people seem to want to see Argentina fall apart just for spite of saying Milei failed.

 

[Wally]

Firstly want to say I respect Avocado and Larry and I have learned much from reading their Milei hating posts and the forum is better with them here

Just want to ask is there anything Milei could do to make you support him over a thieving bandit like Kristina ? And if so what ? You make intelligent but negative posts, so make a positive one and let's see, hypothetically what would have to happen for you to admit that Argentina is better with Milei ? Thankyiu!!

Thieving is right. Not sure how people can still support CFK. Fortunately, her approval ratings are in the toilet. Some will always support her because of all the handouts and free money. Half the people I know don't like Milei but at least now they don't support Cristina. I'm not sure who will take over her place but her days are done in politics.

 

[import export]

Firstly want to say I respect Avocado and Larry and I have learned much from reading their Milei hating posts and the forum is better with them here

Just want to ask is there anything Milei could do to make you support him over a thieving bandit like Kristina ? And if so what ? You make intelligent but negative posts, so make a positive one and let's see, hypothetically what would have to happen for you to admit that Argentina is better with Milei ? Thankyiu!!

I ask my friends in Argentina this all the time. They complain about Milei. In their eyes nothing he does is right. They will begrudgingly agree that inflation is going down on some things but quick to point out that inflation is much higher than what is portrayed in government numbers. They complain how the situation is worse for them and everyone they know.

 

[Larry]

Firstly want to say I respect Avocado and Larry and I have learned much from reading their Milei hating posts and the forum is better with them here

Just want to ask is there anything Milei could do to make you support him over a thieving bandit like Kristina ? And if so what ? You make intelligent but negative posts, so make a positive one and let's see, hypothetically what would have to happen for you to admit that Argentina is better with Milei ? Thankyiu!!

Thank you @LyellLanatone. I am happy to hear you say it is a positive with me here I was traveling in Spain and Italy for the past 2 months so been away. I have been posting all year how prices are very dear here and on par with European prices now and going to Spain and Italy confirmed what I wrote. Good meals there were less than I am paying in BA now. Coffee is half the cost of coffee in BA.

I don't want to complain just to complain. That is not my intent on this forum. I am seeing not all of what Milei is doing is bad. In fact I will agree about hyperinflation claims if he did not win. Still I don't believe the government numbers for everything. My healthcare insurance premium is through the roof. It has gone up 253% from same period last December to December 2024. My condo fee has jumped up around the same. Utility bills are through the roof.

I agree they needed to go up but this is extreme. People do not have the money for these kind of increases to get to and from work. Jumps up in electricity and water and gas bills is too much.

Cristina was not a saint but many poor and lower class had a much better lifestyle with her and I think the country as a whole worked better. Poverty rates are going up not down. Report after report from respected magazines reports poverty has jumped up. People say it is going own but I do not see that in my everyday life. I see more homeless on the streets. I see more going through trash bins.

What would it take for me to admit I was wrong about Milei? Good question. I would need to see poverty levels going way back down. I need to see realistic price of peso. Milei was critical about intervention and all they are doing is intervention. Everyone agrees peso is overvalued. I would like to see government step in and stop healthcare companies from keep raising prices like they said they would do. They stopped for a while but went back up. Prices are too dear now.

I want to see prices in USD terms go down. It is not reasonable to have prices the same as in America or higher than Europe where the salaries are more. I would need to see companies actually grow. More and more friends that I know are getting fired from their companies now. More lately than even before. This is in private sector where their companies can't afford all of these increases in salaries, and extra fees so they are laying off now.

I want to see the cepo and all currency controls stopped. Let us see where exchange rate is on open market. If companies start hiring, prices go to reasonable prices, poverty goes down, economy grows then I will admit he is doing ok.

 

[Nasdaq]

Firstly want to say I respect Avocado and Larry and I have learned much from reading their Milei hating posts and the forum is better with them here

Just want to ask is there anything Milei could do to make you support him over a thieving bandit like Kristina ? And if so what ? You make intelligent but negative posts, so make a positive one and let's see, hypothetically what would have to happen for you to admit that Argentina is better with Milei ? Thankyiu!!

This is a great solid question that I asked exactly to my Porteño friends. It is difficult for me to understand how people can support CFK but it all boils down to people having a better life with her. Milei is doing miracles for Argentina but the poor and even middle class don't see it or feel it yet. With austerity measures in place they are paying the biggest price.

So for these people they don't care if CFK was stealing or not. They just measure by if they can put food on the table for their families. @BuySellBA did a great post on X yesterday and it sounds like the wealthy are the ones that are mostly on the 50% that support Milei. Does anyone have the URL of this article from Gallup?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1866646411854442836

 

[BuySellBA]

This is a great solid question that I asked exactly to my Porteño friends. It is difficult for me to understand how people can support CFK but it all boils down to people having a better life with her. Milei is doing miracles for Argentina but the poor and even middle class don't see it or feel it yet. With austerity measures in place they are paying the biggest price.

So for these people they don't care if CFK was stealing or not. They just measure by if they can put food on the table for their families. @BuySellBA did a great post on X yesterday and it sounds like the wealthy are the ones that are mostly on the 50% that support Milei. Does anyone have the URL of this article from Gallup?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1866646411854442836

Here is the URL of the article that we took the data from.

Javier Milei's Argentina in 6 Charts

At the one-year mark of Javier Milei's presidency, economic optimism in Argentina is higher, but long-standing challenges remain.

news.gallup.com

 

[Flamingo]

Thank you @LyellLanatone. I am happy to hear you say it is a positive with me here I was traveling in Spain and Italy for the past 2 months so been away. I have been posting all year how prices are very dear here and on par with European prices now and going to Spain and Italy confirmed what I wrote. Good meals there were less than I am paying in BA now. Coffee is half the cost of coffee in BA.

I don't want to complain just to complain. That is not my intent on this forum. I am seeing not all of what Milei is doing is bad. In fact I will agree about hyperinflation claims if he did not win. Still I don't believe the government numbers for everything. My healthcare insurance premium is through the roof. It has gone up 253% from same period last December to December 2024. My condo fee has jumped up around the same. Utility bills are through the roof.

I agree they needed to go up but this is extreme. People do not have the money for these kind of increases to get to and from work. Jumps up in electricity and water and gas bills is too much.

Cristina was not a saint but many poor and lower class had a much better lifestyle with her and I think the country as a whole worked better. Poverty rates are going up not down. Report after report from respected magazines reports poverty has jumped up. People say it is going own but I do not see that in my everyday life. I see more homeless on the streets. I see more going through trash bins.

What would it take for me to admit I was wrong about Milei? Good question. I would need to see poverty levels going way back down. I need to see realistic price of peso. Milei was critical about intervention and all they are doing is intervention. Everyone agrees peso is overvalued. I would like to see government step in and stop healthcare companies from keep raising prices like they said they would do. They stopped for a while but went back up. Prices are too dear now.

I want to see prices in USD terms go down. It is not reasonable to have prices the same as in America or higher than Europe where the salaries are more. I would need to see companies actually grow. More and more friends that I know are getting fired from their companies now. More lately than even before. This is in private sector where their companies can't afford all of these increases in salaries, and extra fees so they are laying off now.

I want to see the cepo and all currency controls stopped. Let us see where exchange rate is on open market. If companies start hiring, prices go to reasonable prices, poverty goes down, economy grows then I will admit he is doing ok.

Thanks Larry. I also think the board is better with you and Avocado. I miss your posts. I mostly just lurk now. It seems like expats either love or hate Milei. My friends that love him are financially stable and have $. My friends that hate him are on fixed income and spending their USD savings quickly as life has gotten more expensive here.

I was not a Milei fan and he came across as crazy to me with his cloning his dogs and rhetoric but I am coming around. Many of the changes he made make more sense now. I am seeing the difference with the rental market once he got rid of that nutso rental law. The rental market is working now.

I still don't agree with everything. I think inflation is very high. I also disagree about poverty going down. I just don't see evidence of that on the street or talking to people. Salaries have gone up for some but come on not that much. There are plenty of people posting proof of restaurants going up a good 200% from last year. Let's see what prices do but I agree with Larry the exchange rate is not realistic now. No way that things can cost as much as US on very low wages.

 

[earlyretirement]

Thank you @LyellLanatone. I am happy to hear you say it is a positive with me here I was traveling in Spain and Italy for the past 2 months so been away. I have been posting all year how prices are very dear here and on par with European prices now and going to Spain and Italy confirmed what I wrote. Good meals there were less than I am paying in BA now. Coffee is half the cost of coffee in BA.

I don't want to complain just to complain. That is not my intent on this forum. I am seeing not all of what Milei is doing is bad. In fact I will agree about hyperinflation claims if he did not win. Still I don't believe the government numbers for everything. My healthcare insurance premium is through the roof. It has gone up 253% from same period last December to December 2024. My condo fee has jumped up around the same. Utility bills are through the roof.

I agree they needed to go up but this is extreme. People do not have the money for these kind of increases to get to and from work. Jumps up in electricity and water and gas bills is too much.

Cristina was not a saint but many poor and lower class had a much better lifestyle with her and I think the country as a whole worked better. Poverty rates are going up not down. Report after report from respected magazines reports poverty has jumped up. People say it is going own but I do not see that in my everyday life. I see more homeless on the streets. I see more going through trash bins.

What would it take for me to admit I was wrong about Milei? Good question. I would need to see poverty levels going way back down. I need to see realistic price of peso. Milei was critical about intervention and all they are doing is intervention. Everyone agrees peso is overvalued. I would like to see government step in and stop healthcare companies from keep raising prices like they said they would do. They stopped for a while but went back up. Prices are too dear now.

I want to see prices in USD terms go down. It is not reasonable to have prices the same as in America or higher than Europe where the salaries are more. I would need to see companies actually grow. More and more friends that I know are getting fired from their companies now. More lately than even before. This is in private sector where their companies can't afford all of these increases in salaries, and extra fees so they are laying off now.

I want to see the cepo and all currency controls stopped. Let us see where exchange rate is on open market. If companies start hiring, prices go to reasonable prices, poverty goes down, economy grows then I will admit he is doing ok.

Thanks Larry for participating in this forum. I always believe it's great to get all viewpoints and opinions on any forum. It is not good when forums are an echo chamber and everyone is all spewing the same opinions. Especially in a country like Argentina that is so unique. I've been doing business in Argentina since 2002 and it never ceases to amaze me.

Also, things can change quickly so someone can be wrong one month and you wait a few months or a year and everything is flipped over again. That's why it's always vital to get opposing viewpoints. I appreciate all your contributions @Larry on this forum and others you might post on.

The status quo in Argentina isn't working and a change needed to be made. Even my friends that don't particularly like President Milei agree he has done wonders with the inflation. If you look each month it continues to go down as the country heals itself. Lots of work still to be done but no one can argue that inflation would be tamed with Massa as President. The country was on a destructive path.

People need to keep having patience and they will be rewarded. Argentina just recorded the lowest monthly inflation since July 2020. People don't realize how tough this is to have done.

 

[Darksider415]

I'll be the first to admit I was not a fan of Milei at first, but I've come around. Is life as cheap in dollars as it was a year ago? Nope, but Argentina still represents a good value, and things definitely needed to change.

A year in, I've liked a lot of what he's done, disagreed with some, definitely thought he needed to get off Twitter and breathe more than once, but overall, I think the long-term picture is looking much brighter than it was a year ago.

 

[Avocado]

Firstly want to say I respect Avocado and Larry and I have learned much from reading their Milei hating posts and the forum is better with them here

Just want to ask is there anything Milei could do to make you support him over a thieving bandit like Kristina ? And if so what ? You make intelligent but negative posts, so make a positive one and let's see, hypothetically what would have to happen for you to admit that Argentina is better with Milei ? Thankyiu!!

Thanks to you for nice comment about me!

I stopped posting for while. Funny you call Cristina a bandit. Something I learned is most politicians in Argentina are all bandits. Always been like that. They steal or make money in some way. Cristina was maybe more blatant about it. But they all do it!

My family always ask me his question. In me family maybe half support Milei and half are miserable. I think poverty figures are a lie. They say it improving but I do not see it getting better. All the days I see people suffering with high cost of the things.

For me I need to see poverty go back to normal level.Argentina always high poverty but not this high like now. Read all the journal and it say how poverty worse than ever. I do not know how people can argue this point! It proven fact poverty worse since Milei started. We can argue if he got passed on bad situation. Yes he did but things are worse now for many.

Read the 50% that do not like him. Life is much more miserable for them vs. 50% of people that support him. Their life maybe improved a little but costs are very high now.

All the thing increase in price. Many friend have to cancel medical plan. First time ever in my life I see people cannot pay their health plan. The expensas from building jump up at crazy level. I have to spend all my dollar savings I saved all my life. All the people are the same in poor or middle class. We have to sell more dollar saving all the months to pay to eat and live.

Crime also go up. In the streets you cannot park anywhere at night or you car get broken glass. People steal all the thing. People do not talk about increased crime much but it go up drastically as people more desperate.

I see many friends and family get laid off now with jobs. More and more employers terminating employees because they can not afford high cost of salaries. I need to see poverty go down, companies hiring and economy growing, prices go down and salary go up. Crime go down.

I do not think all Milei is doing is bad. He fixing the corrupt AFIP. Good to fix that. I do not like what he do for education system. I do not agree with charging for education even for foreigners that are Mercosur that come to this country legal. We have obligation to help with education. I do not want see him charge students for education.

I need to see retired people on pensions get more money. It not fair for politicians to make more money and refuse to retired people working all their life.

 

[import export]

Thanks to you for nice comment about me!

I stopped posting for while. Funny you call Cristina a bandit. Something I learned is most politicians in Argentina are all bandits. Always been like that. They steal or make money in some way. Cristina was maybe more blatant about it. But they all do it!

My family always ask me his question. In me family maybe half support Milei and half are miserable. I think poverty figures are a lie. They say it improving but I do not see it getting better. All the days I see people suffering with high cost of the things.

For me I need to see poverty go back to normal level.Argentina always high poverty but not this high like now. Read all the journal and it say how poverty worse than ever. I do not know how people can argue this point! It proven fact poverty worse since Milei started. We can argue if he got passed on bad situation. Yes he did but things are worse now for many.

Read the 50% that do not like him. Life is much more miserable for them vs. 50% of people that support him. Their life maybe improved a little but costs are very high now.

All the thing increase in price. Many friend have to cancel medical plan. First time ever in my life I see people cannot pay their health plan. The expensas from building jump up at crazy level. I have to spend all my dollar savings I saved all my life. All the people are the same in poor or middle class. We have to sell more dollar saving all the months to pay to eat and live.

Crime also go up. In the streets you cannot park anywhere at night or you car get broken glass. People steal all the thing. People do not talk about increased crime much but it go up drastically as people more desperate.

I see many friends and family get laid off now with jobs. More and more employers terminating employees because they can not afford high cost of salaries. I need to see poverty go down, companies hiring and economy growing, prices go down and salary go up. Crime go down.

I do not think all Milei is doing is bad. He fixing the corrupt AFIP. Good to fix that. I do not like what he do for education system. I do not agree with charging for education even for foreigners that are Mercosur that come to this country legal. We have obligation to help with education. I do not want see him charge students for education.

I need to see retired people on pensions get more money. It not fair for politicians to make more money and refuse to retired people working all their life.

Thank you for chiming in @Avocado. I also enjoy your posts. If you look at the #'s 50% of people hate Milei. It is always nice to read your comments. Hopefully we read more of your posts even if it is to tell what Milei is doing wrong.

 

[Avocado]

I'll be the first to admit I was not a fan of Milei at first, but I've come around. Is life as cheap in dollars as it was a year ago? Nope, but Argentina still represents a good value, and things definitely needed to change.

A year in, I've liked a lot of what he's done, disagreed with some, definitely thought he needed to get off Twitter and breathe more than once, but overall, I think the long-term picture is looking much brighter than it was a year ago.

Thank you @Darksider415. I get angry when I read foreigners and tourists complaining about prices. They came for cheap steaks and cheap life not caring about misery of the people here. It is good to read foreigners that say things needed to change.

I agree with you that Milei not as crazy as I thought before. I still think he is crazy but sometimes crazy is good. I admit he doing everything he say he will do. He did not blow up Central Bank yet but I admit he is intelligent man. I hope things go better. I worry things fall apart. I see lot of debt Argentina has and I don't know how they pay it back.

Now we have to suffer with more IMF loans which got us in trouble in first place. I fear we get more billions and never get out of this mess.

 

[LyellLanatone]

It's very interesting that Avocado says half his family supports Milei and the other half no in the USA things are becoming so divided that we read about families seperating over political votes which is very sad and not good for the future

 

[Wally]

It's very interesting that Avocado says half his family supports Milei and the other half no in the USA things are becoming so divided that we read about families seperating over political votes which is very sad and not good for the future

The same in my family. My wife's family is in the same situation. My wife is in a much better financial situation than some of her siblings. Her brothers that all own companies all support Milei and her other half that are not in as good of a position all are very bitter with Milei. Like Avocado many of her siblings are going through life savings every month and cashing in their savings so it is tough. My wife and I are more fortunate and although cost of living has gone up we will land on our feet.

We also own our own property and some of her siblings are trying to buy their own place. I joked with her brother who doesn't like Milei that if it weren't for Milei he wouldn't be getting a mortgage. He just got approved for a mortgage and owning his own place for the first time in his life. He actually agreed with me. So I think some people on the fence are coming around and seeing there are upsides to functional economy including mortgages and credit and financing.

@LyellLanatone the same with my family. My sister won't talk to me since Trump won. I was very much in favor of change and she is a die hard Democrat. I think both candidates were terrible but I wonder if Trump will have a Milei like moment. USA badly needed change like Argentina so we shall see but not on speaking terms with my sister.

 

[Uncle Wong]

This is a great solid question that I asked exactly to my Porteño friends. It is difficult for me to understand how people can support CFK but it all boils down to people having a better life with her. Milei is doing miracles for Argentina but the poor and even middle class don't see it or feel it yet. With austerity measures in place they are paying the biggest price.

So for these people they don't care if CFK was stealing or not. They just measure by if they can put food on the table for their families. @BuySellBA did a great post on X yesterday and it sounds like the wealthy are the ones that are mostly on the 50% that support Milei. Does anyone have the URL of this article from Gallup?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1866646411854442836

Thanks for posting this. Seems to support my informal thoughts with friends who support Milei and those that don't. My friends that support Milei mostly have stable jobs or work remote for companies. They also are struggling with a higher cost of living and they are paid in dollars but they all have gotten raises and believe the future will be better. A few friends recently lost jobs.

It is strange that companies would terminate employees before the holidays but it sounds like some are throwing in the towel trying to survive these higher salaries.

 

[Piranha]

Firstly want to say I respect Avocado and Larry and I have learned much from reading their Milei hating posts and the forum is better with them here

Just want to ask is there anything Milei could do to make you support him over a thieving bandit like Kristina ? And if so what ? You make intelligent but negative posts, so make a positive one and let's see, hypothetically what would have to happen for you to admit that Argentina is better with Milei ? Thankyiu!!

Agree I enjoy reading their posts. In the end Larry was right all year when he kept saying how expensive Argentina was getting. I have to agree with him now. He has been saying it since earlier this year and since then it's even gotten much more expensive. The peso went from 1,500 in July to 1,075 today. Very painful for those of us with dollars. It is good to see the blue dollar going up yesterday and today.

I would have to believe there will be a devaluation of the peso in light of Brazil's exchange rate. If Trump starts a tariff war I don't think it will be good for Argentina's peso.

 

[JonToronto]

I see many friends and family get laid off now with jobs. More and more employers terminating employees because they can not afford high cost of salaries. I need to see poverty go down, companies hiring and economy growing, prices go down and salary go up. Crime go down.

Good to see you posting again Avocado. I was wondering how you viewed things and if you came around to what Milei is doing. I think it will take time to see poverty start to turn. It seems like it is just starting to turn the corner although to be honest I don't always believe government statistics. From the data it looks to be slightly less but hard to tell. All my friends in BA tell me it's worse judging from the people sifting through garbage.

One thing you are right about is companies that seem to be laying off. I have read a few posts online of people saying they will have to shut down. Even after raising salaries and still not able to turn a profit. I wonder if this is wide spread. The recession seems to be just turning corner if you believe the big investment banks. But worried reading this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865412921695563785

 

[Jerome]

I met several locals that have recently lost jobs. One maid I met to clean my Airbnb told me that she worked for many years for the same employer and after many years the employer cut her as they couldn't' afford her anymore. I am not sure how common that is. Still seems like several locals have plenty of money to spend. I went to La Mar a few times as it is around the corner from my Airbnb and it always seems to be busy.

 

[earlyretirement]

@Larry and @Avocado thanks again for participating. I created this forum for the sharing of great information on Argentina. One of the things you both said you would like to see is poverty going down. The data IS showing that poverty levels are going down. There are good sources tracking it and the numbers do appear to be going down. Let's hope this trend continues.

González-Rozada, Martín | Universidad Torcuato Di Tella

www.utdt.edu