Am I the asshole? You be the judge please

[Rico Suave]

I read on Reddit a forum called, "Am I the asshole":

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/

It is a forum with real people that post situations and then let other forum members judge and say if they were an asshole or not. I want to get some advice for something that happened last week. Here is my situation:

Oh, living the high life in la Boca, (sorry it's all I can afford). I mean, who wouldn't want to be the VIP customer at the local sandwich place, spending a small fortune by Argentina's standards? I'm practically the best customer (or at least in my head) and go there every day and spend a lot of money (at least for me it seems like buying a sandwich every day is a lot of money).

But, of course, in this glamorous life, there's always a plot twist waiting for you. Picture this: you're in line, eagerly awaiting your sandwich masterpiece, when suddenly, a 450-pound embodiment of charm and grace waltzes in. A beggar, no less. All dirty, drunk and claiming he has no food and is very hungry and hasn't even in days. (Fat chance with his 450 pound body weight).

Naturally, he approaches me, demanding money with the finesse of a Broadway performer. My initial polite refusal only serves as an opening act to the main event of his aggression. Well, I can't let this drama unfold for the next 20 minutes with my polite gestures, can I?
So, in a stunning turn of events, I decide to match his aggression, get right up in his face, and declare that hell will need to invest in a cozy fireplace before you part ways with a single peso. I have to admit I made one heck of a scene and although I don't speak Spanish, I was screaming F' bombs here and there. The beggar, not one to miss a cue, decides to move on to the next unsuspecting victim.

Now, can you possibly guess what thrilling escapade awaits in the next episode of "La Boca Chronicles: The Sandwich Shop Showdown"? Stay tuned for more riveting tales from the glamorous streets of Argentina! I was shocked at what the sandwich shop owner did to me. Guess.

 

[Crossfit Junkie]

My family and I travel around in Latin America quite a bit and it's not uncommon to find beggars. Most places don't let these people come inside the store. It sounds like they were already inside the restaurant? How we handle it is usually giving them a few small coins if we have it. If not, we simply politely tell them we don't have any change. On a few occasions if it's an adult with a small child, we are happy to buy them something. I don't think you needed to match the aggression or especially use fowl language.

I'm guessing the shop owner probably didn't like your attitude either.

 

[Bobbie Burgers]

I bet the shop owner told you that you were in the wrong. I don't like those beggars but honestly they don't phase me at all. They are usually polite if you say no. I have a feeling we will be seeing more of these and if you're just using F bombs that's not the solution either. You can politely say no to them. I'm not sure if you're the A hole but who did the shop owner respond?

 

[Flamingo]

If the shop owner doesn't kick them out right away or lets them come in then probably they just appreciate people saying no. Not sure you needed to match the aggression of someone that claims to be poor. If you can't afford to help out just say no thank you. I'd say you ARE an asshole.

 

[Rico Suave]

Wow, surprising some of you are saying I'm the jerk. Argentina is like a backwards parallel universe on some things to me.

I go in there every day and they used to be polite and all smiles but right after I yelled at the beggar, they barely talk to me and have this disgusted look on their face. It got so bad I stopped going in there. Even if it's a different employee that wasn't there that day it's like the owner told them to all be mean to me. I hope they go out of business and they too are starving in the street! I will have a fiesta and laugh in their faces.

 

[Avocado]

Wow, surprising some of you are saying I'm the jerk. Argentina is like a backwards parallel universe on some things to me.

I go in there every day and they used to be polite and all smiles but right after I yelled at the beggar, they barely talk to me and have this disgusted look on their face. It got so bad I stopped going in there. Even if it's a different employee that wasn't there that day it's like the owner told them to all be mean to me. I hope they go out of business and they too are starving in the street! I will have a fiesta and laugh in their faces.

You are the one to blame. You can simply say no to these people. I have never in 4 decades living here ever have had someone get aggressive when I said no to giving them money. There is simply NO scenario where it's ok to use bad language in front of a bunch of strangers in a public place. Sure, we Argentines use bad language all the time. It's a part of our culture. But the scene of seeing an expat that probably can barely speak Spanish cursing at a poor homeless man is very disgusting to see at this point in Argentina's economic history after Milei got elected and making things very bad for people.

You asked so I will tell you that yes you are an asshole. You might consider leaving Argentina if you're going to continue to be aggressive for no reason.

 

[Che Vos]

Wow, surprising some of you are saying I'm the jerk. Argentina is like a backwards parallel universe on some things to me.

I go in there every day and they used to be polite and all smiles but right after I yelled at the beggar, they barely talk to me and have this disgusted look on their face. It got so bad I stopped going in there. Even if it's a different employee that wasn't there that day it's like the owner told them to all be mean to me. I hope they go out of business and they too are starving in the street! I will have a fiesta and laugh in their faces.

You are the type of expat that we don't want in our country. 99% of expats I talk to are very friendly and use good common sense. But every once in while I hear of ugly expat like you that make a fool of yourself in my country. Please learn how to act in my country or better you go back to where you are from. What country you from?

 

[VINO]

I agree with the others. I wouldn't go so far as to say you're an A hole but probably many locals would consider you one. There is simply no need to match the aggression of anyone like this. Just say you don't have any money and that is it. Just look away. Raising your voice, raising a scene, using F word is not going to ever help your cause. You were being more disruptive for their business than the beggar.

 

[FuturoBA]

Wow, surprising some of you are saying I'm the jerk. Argentina is like a backwards parallel universe on some things to me.

I go in there every day and they used to be polite and all smiles but right after I yelled at the beggar, they barely talk to me and have this disgusted look on their face. It got so bad I stopped going in there. Even if it's a different employee that wasn't there that day it's like the owner told them to all be mean to me. I hope they go out of business and they too are starving in the street! I will have a fiesta and laugh in their faces.

Here you have your answer...

 

[FuturoBA]

I agree with the others. I wouldn't go so far as to say you're an A hole but probably many locals would consider you one. There is simply no need to match the aggression of anyone like this. Just say you don't have any money and that is it. Just look away. Raising your voice, raising a scene, using F word is not going to ever help your cause. You were being more disruptive for their business than the beggar.

One can be firm without being disruptive.

 

[Canada Goose]

Dude you are a guest in another country. I came across these people a few times but mostly they were just polite and trying to sell Kleenex or candy or socks or something to try to make a little money. Usually I gave them some small bills worth barely anything to me. Sometimes if I didn't have anything I just said, "no tengo dinero" and that was it. I can see NO scenario where you dropping F bombs is going to bode well for you.

Here you have your answer...

I agree with @FuturoBA. You should like a really angry person. I'm not sure why. Argentines are going through a very difficult time. If I saw someone like this in the USA or Canada (which I often do). If I started swearing at them, people would think I was crazy. I don't see that as anything different with your scenario.

 

[Rico Suave]

One can be firm without being disruptive.

I tried to be firm and he wouldn't listen. He kept asking over and over. He asked others in line and they said no. They were locals. They were talking to him in Spanish. I could't speak Spanish but no means no. I don't know what he was saying. He kept waving some card in my face. I don't know what it was. Maybe some disability type card or something. I'm not sure.

I can't believe you all are siding with the sandwich shop. You all probably voted for Massa or Peronistas and pissed off for some reason.

 

[Wally]

I tried to be firm and he wouldn't listen. He kept asking over and over. He asked others in line and they said no. They were locals. They were talking to him in Spanish. I could't speak Spanish but no means no. I don't know what he was saying. He kept waving some card in my face. I don't know what it was. Maybe some disability type card or something. I'm not sure.

I can't believe you all are siding with the sandwich shop. You all probably voted for Massa or Peronistas and pissed off for some reason.

Sorry but I agree with all the others. If I owned a business and someone was dropping the F word in my company and disrupting things then I would give them a sour look on my face too.

You also have to consider that maybe the owner lets this guy ask and probably I'd guess many people might buy him something to eat. I have found over time, some store owners can either not let them in or they will allow it and allow people to buy something for them. In one pick up place I go, there is always the same guy doing the same thing and more times then not I will see him eating outside with food from that place. Either people are giving leftovers or bought something for him. I myself have given him leftovers.

I think even if the guy was being aggressive with you, you don't need to match that aggression. Typically the best thing is to de-escalate the situation.

I also don't see where any politics talk comes into this discussion. I don't think that has anything to do with it. I voted for Milei and I would call you and asshole too.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

How we handle it is usually giving them a few small coins if we have it

if you reward the nasties, they are incentivized to keep up the bad behavior

I don't like those beggars but honestly they don't phase me at all. They are usually polite if you say no.

i've played around with this for the past 6 weeks. there is a higher level of persistence in the BsAs transients than i've seen elsewhere, so i have been fazed a couple times...because it's fucking rude to bother people when they're eating and they already said no. i've tried ignoring, saying i don't speak whatever language they are trying, saying "no, gracias" or one time i asked them to leave and matched their behaviors:

get right up in his face

i tried this on Corrientes by the Obelisk and the transient just got mad like no one had ever told him to get away (he was touching the corner of my table and almost stepping on my dog, and i had already said no thanks, asked him to leave 2x, etc. - i rarely escalate and have never been in a 'fight' in my life)

surprisingly, the waiter did not pre-empt the interaction like nicer places do (telling them to leave), nor did he make any effort to assist. it was only the nearby police that caused the now-yelling "f*ck you and your dog, i'll kill that little bitch" transient to move on, after i sat back down and ignored him. i was worried he would get violent, and i'd get his germs on me

this has only happened once, and now i just ignore them like they're invisible and it seems to be the most effective. and i won't go back to a restaurant that allows transients to harass their clients. that being said, the level of stupidity in BsAs downtown is shocking; i see worthless pieces of excrement in the same places every day, claiming they need "una ayuda para comer" yet they have plenty of snacks by them and they are physically fine (go to work, commie!) - yet people give them money!!! it's crazy; same thing on US overpasses; stop paying the useless fucks to be useless, and they will go find a better job. you are literally employing them to be druggies and sit in the sun.

Not sure you needed to match the aggression of someone that claims to be poor.[...] I'd say you ARE an asshole.

i disagree, if the attempt to be nice has already been unsuccessful.

I wouldn't go so far as to say you're an A hole but probably many locals would consider you one. There is simply no need to match the aggression of anyone like this. Just say you don't have any money and that is it. Just look away. Raising your voice, raising a scene, using F word is not going to ever help your cause. You were being more disruptive for their business than the beggar.

i agree with this. culturally, Argentines seem VERY hesitant to have conflict.

One can be firm without being disruptive.

yes, and i think just asking the staff to do something might be the best, because they 99% know the transient loser because that's his 'job' there

but mostly they were just polite and trying to sell Kleenex or candy or socks or something to try to make a little money. Usually I gave them some small bills

but the original poster didn't write clearly enough; he had already said no, and the beggar was one of the 5% aggressive ones. if you pay them for being aggressive, you are incentivizing that behavior

You all probably voted for Massa or Peronistas and pissed off for some reason.

you should have written your story better. i agree that aggressive bums should be harassed, because they are drains on society and it pisses me off when people interrupt my meal, and i know that if i interrupted their meal (they almost always have baked sweets next to them that they stole or got for free). that being said, your lack of nuance here with some people expressing their opinion ... which YOU asked for @Rico Suave, doesn't mean they are communists. a large amount of the population will do anything to avoid any sort of conflict.

you're both the asshole for this last response, and not the asshole for wanting the bum to get out of your face. but let the bum be the loud one, just ask the employees to make him leave, and if they don't 'vote with your Dollar' by not purchasing things there

 

[old fart]

I agree with the others. You should just ignore him. Yes, you're the asshole.

 

[Avocado]

if you reward the nasties, they are incentivized to keep up the bad behavior


i've played around with this for the past 6 weeks. there is a higher level of persistence in the BsAs transients than i've seen elsewhere, so i have been fazed a couple times...because it's fucking rude to bother people when they're eating and they already said no. i've tried ignoring, saying i don't speak whatever language they are trying, saying "no, gracias" or one time i asked them to leave and matched their behaviors:


i tried this on Corrientes by the Obelisk and the transient just got mad like no one had ever told him to get away (he was touching the corner of my table and almost stepping on my dog, and i had already said no thanks, asked him to leave 2x, etc. - i rarely escalate and have never been in a 'fight' in my life)

surprisingly, the waiter did not pre-empt the interaction like nicer places do (telling them to leave), nor did he make any effort to assist. it was only the nearby police that caused the now-yelling "f*ck you and your dog, i'll kill that little bitch" transient to move on, after i sat back down and ignored him. i was worried he would get violent, and i'd get his germs on me

this has only happened once, and now i just ignore them like they're invisible and it seems to be the most effective. and i won't go back to a restaurant that allows transients to harass their clients. that being said, the level of stupidity in BsAs downtown is shocking; i see worthless pieces of excrement in the same places every day, claiming they need "una ayuda para comer" yet they have plenty of snacks by them and they are physically fine (go to work, commie!) - yet people give them money!!! it's crazy; same thing on US overpasses; stop paying the useless fucks to be useless, and they will go find a better job. you are literally employing them to be druggies and sit in the sun.

i disagree, if the attempt to be nice has already been unsuccessful.


i agree with this. culturally, Argentines seem VERY hesitant to have conflict.

yes, and i think just asking the staff to do something might be the best, because they 99% know the transient loser because that's his 'job' there


but the original poster didn't write clearly enough; he had already said no, and the beggar was one of the 5% aggressive ones. if you pay them for being aggressive, you are incentivizing that behavior


you should have written your story better. i agree that aggressive bums should be harassed, because they are drains on society and it pisses me off when people interrupt my meal, and i know that if i interrupted their meal (they almost always have baked sweets next to them that they stole or got for free). that being said, your lack of nuance here with some people expressing their opinion ... which YOU asked for @Rico Suave, doesn't mean they are communists. a large amount of the population will do anything to avoid any sort of conflict.

you're both the asshole for this last response, and not the asshole for wanting the bum to get out of your face. but let the bum be the loud one, just ask the employees to make him leave, and if they don't 'vote with your Dollar' by not purchasing things there

Wait don't tell me. @Rico Suave = @StatusNomadicus ? Maybe the same person and he wanted to see what people would say.

I notice that @StatusNomadicus always drops the F word on these forums. I have seen it in many of his posts. I thought it was very strange as I met a lot of expats and have never read so much F words on a forum. Very strange and rude. My guess is it's the same person and he wants to see what people will say about it.

It is very clear that both people are the same. Very aggressive to people asking for money. He even admit to match the aggressive behavior. I have a feeling things won't end up well for either of these ugly foreigners.

 

[earlyretirement]

One can be firm without being disruptive.

I read on Reddit a forum called, "Am I the asshole":

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/

It is a forum with real people that post situations and then let other forum members judge and say if they were an asshole or not. I want to get some advice for something that happened last week. Here is my situation:

Oh, living the high life in la Boca, (sorry it's all I can afford). I mean, who wouldn't want to be the VIP customer at the local sandwich place, spending a small fortune by Argentina's standards? I'm practically the best customer (or at least in my head) and go there every day and spend a lot of money (at least for me it seems like buying a sandwich every day is a lot of money).

But, of course, in this glamorous life, there's always a plot twist waiting for you. Picture this: you're in line, eagerly awaiting your sandwich masterpiece, when suddenly, a 450-pound embodiment of charm and grace waltzes in. A beggar, no less. All dirty, drunk and claiming he has no food and is very hungry and hasn't even in days. (Fat chance with his 450 pound body weight).

Naturally, he approaches me, demanding money with the finesse of a Broadway performer. My initial polite refusal only serves as an opening act to the main event of his aggression. Well, I can't let this drama unfold for the next 20 minutes with my polite gestures, can I?
So, in a stunning turn of events, I decide to match his aggression, get right up in his face, and declare that hell will need to invest in a cozy fireplace before you part ways with a single peso. I have to admit I made one heck of a scene and although I don't speak Spanish, I was screaming F' bombs here and there. The beggar, not one to miss a cue, decides to move on to the next unsuspecting victim.

Now, can you possibly guess what thrilling escapade awaits in the next episode of "La Boca Chronicles: The Sandwich Shop Showdown"? Stay tuned for more riveting tales from the glamorous streets of Argentina! I was shocked at what the sandwich shop owner did to me. Guess.

I think this is really unfortunate. I travel around the world extensively with my family including much of Latin America where we own properties. I feel very fortunate that I have never had to struggle for food. I try to teach my kids always to be grateful for what they have and have empathy for other people.

In Buenos Aires with the poor economy you can see more and more people begging for money or food. Me personally, I always evaluate and see if the people really need it. I'm probably too much of a softie. Our last family trip on Montevideo near Avenida Alvear I was very surprised to see so many people begging for money or food. I lived in that area for 9 years and I never saw so many people like that. It broke my heart.

I watched as people ignored a guy with his young child. The guy had no shoes on and it was winter. I gave him everything I had on me and I told him to spend it on food. He was crying of happiness. I watched as my wife was in her favorite bakery and I saw most people just ignoring him. I'm not saying they are right and I'm wrong. I don't think anyone can judge if someone wants to help or not. The guy was not violent at all. I've been fortunate that in most places they are just asking and it doesn't get violent.

Actually ironically in the USA I've witnessed more people become loud but I think that's from mental illness or drug use. In Latin America I see mostly people trying to sell Kleenex or candy and I'm one of those that will always give those people money as I like to see them working hard instead of begging for money.

I never would advocate matching their aggression if they do get angry or loud. Just politely say no and that you don't have money and let it end. I've been going to Buenos Aires for 22 years and I was there during the collalito and after it. Argentines are a very resilient people. It's what made me fall so in love with Argentina.

Imagine the bank devaluing our currency 33% and then telling you that you couldn't withdraw more than $300 US per month. People would be blowing up banks. Instead people were banging on pots and pans. That's what made me fall in love with Buenos Aires so much.

I would say that most locals or people in general would say you're the asshole if you're dropping F word in public. I just don't feel you need to ever swear like that ever. I teach my kids that and I'd advocate the same for any adult. Remember how difficult of a situation the locals are going through. You all have dollars and no matter how tough some of you expats think you have it, I promise you the locals are going through worse. So have empathy and compassion and just say no and let them leave.

The store owner probably sees that guy in there all the time. They might not like it and even disagree with him being In their store. But I promise you if they see some tourist/foreigner swearing and yelling at him, they will think you're a lunatic. It's just not in their nature. Remember, when you're traveling, you're a guest in their country and whether you agree or disagree with their cultural norms, you should respect their culture.

You're most likely inviting trouble if you act like that. I've been to over 600 cities around the world in almost 85+ countries and I've just never had issues. Part of it I think is good karma but also I respect the culture and norms and even if someone is being strange, I "kill them with kindness".

Good luck.

 

[Vince]

I think this is really unfortunate. I travel around the world extensively with my family including much of Latin America where we own properties. I feel very fortunate that I have never had to struggle for food. I try to teach my kids always to be grateful for what they have and have empathy for other people.

In Buenos Aires with the poor economy you can see more and more people begging for money or food. Me personally, I always evaluate and see if the people really need it. I'm probably too much of a softie. Our last family trip on Montevideo near Avenida Alvear I was very surprised to see so many people begging for money or food. I lived in that area for 9 years and I never saw so many people like that. It broke my heart.

I watched as people ignored a guy with his young child. The guy had no shoes on and it was winter. I gave him everything I had on me and I told him to spend it on food. He was crying of happiness. I watched as my wife was in her favorite bakery and I saw most people just ignoring him. I'm not saying they are right and I'm wrong. I don't think anyone can judge if someone wants to help or not. The guy was not violent at all. I've been fortunate that in most places they are just asking and it doesn't get violent.

Actually ironically in the USA I've witnessed more people become loud but I think that's from mental illness or drug use. In Latin America I see mostly people trying to sell Kleenex or candy and I'm one of those that will always give those people money as I like to see them working hard instead of begging for money.

I never would advocate matching their aggression if they do get angry or loud. Just politely say no and that you don't have money and let it end. I've been going to Buenos Aires for 22 years and I was there during the collalito and after it. Argentines are a very resilient people. It's what made me fall so in love with Argentina.

Imagine the bank devaluing our currency 33% and then telling you that you couldn't withdraw more than $300 US per month. People would be blowing up banks. Instead people were banging on pots and pans. That's what made me fall in love with Buenos Aires so much.

I would say that most locals or people in general would say you're the asshole if you're dropping F word in public. I just don't feel you need to ever swear like that ever. I teach my kids that and I'd advocate the same for any adult. Remember how difficult of a situation the locals are going through. You all have dollars and no matter how tough some of you expats think you have it, I promise you the locals are going through worse. So have empathy and compassion and just say no and let them leave.

The store owner probably sees that guy in there all the time. They might not like it and even disagree with him being In their store. But I promise you if they see some tourist/foreigner swearing and yelling at him, they will think you're a lunatic. It's just not in their nature. Remember, when you're traveling, you're a guest in their country and whether you agree or disagree with their cultural norms, you should respect their culture.

You're most likely inviting trouble if you act like that. I've been to over 600 cities around the world in almost 85+ countries and I've just never had issues. Part of it I think is good karma but also I respect the culture and norms and even if someone is being strange, I "kill them with kindness".

Good luck.

Great advice and you sound like my philosophy on life. It is how I live my life in BA. I have never had any issues either.

 

[Avocado]

I think this is really unfortunate. I travel around the world extensively with my family including much of Latin America where we own properties. I feel very fortunate that I have never had to struggle for food. I try to teach my kids always to be grateful for what they have and have empathy for other people.

In Buenos Aires with the poor economy you can see more and more people begging for money or food. Me personally, I always evaluate and see if the people really need it. I'm probably too much of a softie. Our last family trip on Montevideo near Avenida Alvear I was very surprised to see so many people begging for money or food. I lived in that area for 9 years and I never saw so many people like that. It broke my heart.

I watched as people ignored a guy with his young child. The guy had no shoes on and it was winter. I gave him everything I had on me and I told him to spend it on food. He was crying of happiness. I watched as my wife was in her favorite bakery and I saw most people just ignoring him. I'm not saying they are right and I'm wrong. I don't think anyone can judge if someone wants to help or not. The guy was not violent at all. I've been fortunate that in most places they are just asking and it doesn't get violent.

Actually ironically in the USA I've witnessed more people become loud but I think that's from mental illness or drug use. In Latin America I see mostly people trying to sell Kleenex or candy and I'm one of those that will always give those people money as I like to see them working hard instead of begging for money.

I never would advocate matching their aggression if they do get angry or loud. Just politely say no and that you don't have money and let it end. I've been going to Buenos Aires for 22 years and I was there during the collalito and after it. Argentines are a very resilient people. It's what made me fall so in love with Argentina.

Imagine the bank devaluing our currency 33% and then telling you that you couldn't withdraw more than $300 US per month. People would be blowing up banks. Instead people were banging on pots and pans. That's what made me fall in love with Buenos Aires so much.

I would say that most locals or people in general would say you're the asshole if you're dropping F word in public. I just don't feel you need to ever swear like that ever. I teach my kids that and I'd advocate the same for any adult. Remember how difficult of a situation the locals are going through. You all have dollars and no matter how tough some of you expats think you have it, I promise you the locals are going through worse. So have empathy and compassion and just say no and let them leave.

The store owner probably sees that guy in there all the time. They might not like it and even disagree with him being In their store. But I promise you if they see some tourist/foreigner swearing and yelling at him, they will think you're a lunatic. It's just not in their nature. Remember, when you're traveling, you're a guest in their country and whether you agree or disagree with their cultural norms, you should respect their culture.

You're most likely inviting trouble if you act like that. I've been to over 600 cities around the world in almost 85+ countries and I've just never had issues. Part of it I think is good karma but also I respect the culture and norms and even if someone is being strange, I "kill them with kindness".

Good luck.

This very good attitude to have in Argentina. You have mind of local. For this you never have problems here.

 

[MickMolloy]

Lol I am the original author of this post on the other forum, its my story. I've since been banned from that forum for no reason so thanks to early retirement for creating this place. The 'old' forum really deserves to die they are horrible people

Anyway "Rico Suave" who copied my story here has changed some things to make me look bad, Specifically that "I don't speak spanish and started screaming F bombs." FYI I speak perfect spanish with a Porteño accent, my aggression was merely telling the beggar that he would get no money from me before hell froze over so stop wasting your time and move on to the next mark

Secondly he was incredibly rude and aggressive shoving his disability card in my face almost to the point of hitting me with it. While his only disability appeared to be his grotesque obesity

Theres a lot more but I can't be bothered writing more