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Any expats own gun in Argentina? Do you want to own a gun or firearm here in our country?

VERY bad news. Congress in Argentina has called for a special session to make it easier to access guns legally. They are trying to give my gun rights. I view this as bad news. As the economy continues to crater with this recession the last thing we need is more guns on the streets.

www.ambito.com

Diputados convocó a una sesión especial para el 7 de agosto

La Cámara baja anticipó un debate para el próximo meses. Uno de los principales proyectos en el temario será el de la regularización de la tenencia de armas.
www.ambito.com www.ambito.com



https://twitter.com/x/status/1815802050489242046
 
Wally said:
You clearly have lots more to go through....
Click to expand...
eh, there has never been a good enough answer for how you can defend your family, as well as the answer of a defensive 9mm Glock pistol. until there is an appropriate answer (not: call the police, de-escalate, run, etc.) then my right to defend myself trumps anyone's fear of an inanimate object. i see i tagged you but meant to tag the commie Larry - not sure why my dyslexia did that twice, now. apologies!

GlasgowJohn said:
There has not been one single mass shooting since then.
Click to expand...
according to whose statistics? and does it matter if the killings stayed the same number, but transitioned to knife deaths? the UK has some big issues, most especially in the Islamist grooming gang areas of England. unfortunately, importing military-age males from Muslim-majority countries hasn't been good for the average English citizen, and i don't think it's getting better:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820163941580091661

and knife crimes are massive in the UK. what do you do if a group of 5 masked men come running at your family with knives? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/25/drug-gangs-worst-spike-knife-gun-crime-five-years/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820163362510250325

@GlasgowJohn - my hero Thomas Sowell has also addressed this issue - culture, not gun availability, is the reason for mass-violence in the UK, whether guns in the past or knives now: "many of the most zealous advocates of gun control laws, on both sides of the Atlantic, have also been advocates of leniency toward criminals. In Britain, such people have been so successful that legal gun ownership has been reduced almost to the vanishing point, while even most convicted felons in Britain are not put behind bars. The crime rate, including the rate of crimes committed with guns, is far higher in Britain now than it was back in the days when there were few restrictions on Britons buying firearms. In 1954, there were only a dozen armed robberies in London but, by the 1990s – after decades of ever tightening gun ownership restrictions – there were more than a hundred times as many armed robberies." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/18/great-gun-control-fallacy-thomas-sowell

there are myriad times when a lawfully-armed peaceful citizen has stopped violent crimes or murders, sometimes just using a defensive display. most criminals want to prey on the helpless, like any psychopath/sociopath

1. Colion Noir four-minute explanation:

2. Brazil female mom/off-duty cop stops a make criminal who was aiming his gun at children and women...kinda graphic:

3. three-minute summary of lawful citizens defending themselves against violent psychos:

4. Gun Ownership effective for public: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-l...-effective-self-defense-gun-control-p-142-149

5. over 91% of police officers in a 15,000-officer study said that citizen concealed-carry is good: https://www.police1.com/gun-legisla...st-solution-to-gun-violence-7uwWgZ75iwWz9vI9/
there's a reason most cops will suggest law-abiding peaceful people have a way to protect their family, with a defensive firearm.

LongIslander said:
Look at how many mass shootings are in the USA.
Click to expand...
the political agencies who publish some stats are including gang-on-gang violence as "mass shootings" - you take away the 0.1% of psycho people (usually recidivist criminals in gangs) and the statistics change A LOT. Thomas Sowell already debunked the Mass-Shooting myth you've brought-up here, in 2016:

"Mass shootings are often used as examples of a need for gun control. But what puts a stop to mass shootings? Usually the arrival on the scene of somebody else with a gun." https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2016/12/30/thomas-sowell-commentary-history-shows/22748858007/

Gun-Free Zones: "One of the many hard facts that gets overlooked by those impressed by visions and rhetoric is that mass shootings almost invariably occur in gun-free zones like schools, workplaces, or houses of worship." https://www.deseret.com/2007/4/26/2...-collective-guilt-has-part-in-mass-shootings/

"Among the other facts that gun control zealots consistently ignore are data on how many lives are saved each year by a defensive use of guns. This seldom requires actually shooting. Just pointing a loaded gun at an assailant is usually enough to get him to back off, often in some haste. There have been books and articles based on voluminous statistics, including statistics comparing gun laws and gun crime rates in different countries, such as 'Guns and Violence' by Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm of George Mason University. Seldom do these factual studies back up what the gun control zealots are saying. Why would an ultimately factual question about the consequences of gun control laws divide people along ideological lines? Only if at least one set of people were more devoted to their vision than to the facts. This shows up when gun control zealots are asked whether whatever new law they propose would have prevented the shooting rampage that they are using as a stage from which to propose a new clampdown on gun ownership. Almost always, the new law being proposed would not have made the slightest difference. That too is part of the farce. A deadly farce." https://www.desertsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2015/10/17/sowell-gun-control-farce/74058796/

Larry said:
It's impossible for any reasonable person to argue that having so many guns in your country is a good thing.
Click to expand...
only according to a commie who hasn't read any evidence that might go against the preconceived 'facts' he already adheres to ;) we have plenty of restrictive gun countries where it's virtually impossible to own a firearm legally...move there if you don't want people having guns. luckily in the USA and Argentina, and places like Czech Republic, peaceful citizens can possess firearms for defensive use against violent animals and humans. sorry if you don't like it - there are hundreds of other countries where you can live, where no civilians can own firearms. leave Argentina and the USA alone.

Shoemaker said:
My cousin's neighbor in Mendoza
Click to expand...
holy hell, i just am now reading this thread (i have most the annoying Local Peronists muted). can you connect me with your people in Mendoza?? this is the first time i'm hearing of anyone with friends/family in Mendoza. i just got here recently, and i was living in Mayor Drummond which is near Lujan de Cuyo. weird! @Shoemaker i'll send you a direct message if you have time.

to the Peronist Locals: guns are already here, more illegal than legal, and peaceful citizens don't use pistols to hurt people; only to defend their families. the law already allows for gun ownership. only communists want to disarm citizens so that restricting rights and ethnic-cleansing/etc. is easier in the future. a disarmed populace is more easily manipulated by the elites or the violent group who gains control: https://www.spartanfirearmstraining...ation-is-easier-to-oppress-than-an-armed-one/
 
StatusNomadicus said:
eh, there has never been a good enough answer for how you can defend your family, as well as the answer of a defensive 9mm Glock pistol. until there is an appropriate answer (not: call the police, de-escalate, run, etc.) then my right to defend myself trumps anyone's fear of an inanimate object. i see i tagged you but meant to tag the commie Larry - not sure why my dyslexia did that twice, now. apologies!


according to whose statistics? and does it matter if the killings stayed the same number, but transitioned to knife deaths? the UK has some big issues, most especially in the Islamist grooming gang areas of England. unfortunately, importing military-age males from Muslim-majority countries hasn't been good for the average English citizen, and i don't think it's getting better:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820163941580091661

and knife crimes are massive in the UK. what do you do if a group of 5 masked men come running at your family with knives? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/25/drug-gangs-worst-spike-knife-gun-crime-five-years/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820163362510250325

@GlasgowJohn - my hero Thomas Sowell has also addressed this issue - culture, not gun availability, is the reason for mass-violence in the UK, whether guns in the past or knives now: "many of the most zealous advocates of gun control laws, on both sides of the Atlantic, have also been advocates of leniency toward criminals. In Britain, such people have been so successful that legal gun ownership has been reduced almost to the vanishing point, while even most convicted felons in Britain are not put behind bars. The crime rate, including the rate of crimes committed with guns, is far higher in Britain now than it was back in the days when there were few restrictions on Britons buying firearms. In 1954, there were only a dozen armed robberies in London but, by the 1990s – after decades of ever tightening gun ownership restrictions – there were more than a hundred times as many armed robberies." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/18/great-gun-control-fallacy-thomas-sowell

there are myriad times when a lawfully-armed peaceful citizen has stopped violent crimes or murders, sometimes just using a defensive display. most criminals want to prey on the helpless, like any psychopath/sociopath

1. Colion Noir four-minute explanation:

2. Brazil female mom/off-duty cop stops a make criminal who was aiming his gun at children and women...kinda graphic:

3. three-minute summary of lawful citizens defending themselves against violent psychos:

4. Gun Ownership effective for public: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-l...-effective-self-defense-gun-control-p-142-149

5. over 91% of police officers in a 15,000-officer study said that citizen concealed-carry is good: https://www.police1.com/gun-legisla...st-solution-to-gun-violence-7uwWgZ75iwWz9vI9/
there's a reason most cops will suggest law-abiding peaceful people have a way to protect their family, with a defensive firearm.


the political agencies who publish some stats are including gang-on-gang violence as "mass shootings" - you take away the 0.1% of psycho people (usually recidivist criminals in gangs) and the statistics change A LOT. Thomas Sowell already debunked the Mass-Shooting myth you've brought-up here, in 2016:

"Mass shootings are often used as examples of a need for gun control. But what puts a stop to mass shootings? Usually the arrival on the scene of somebody else with a gun." https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2016/12/30/thomas-sowell-commentary-history-shows/22748858007/

Gun-Free Zones: "One of the many hard facts that gets overlooked by those impressed by visions and rhetoric is that mass shootings almost invariably occur in gun-free zones like schools, workplaces, or houses of worship." https://www.deseret.com/2007/4/26/2...-collective-guilt-has-part-in-mass-shootings/

"Among the other facts that gun control zealots consistently ignore are data on how many lives are saved each year by a defensive use of guns. This seldom requires actually shooting. Just pointing a loaded gun at an assailant is usually enough to get him to back off, often in some haste. There have been books and articles based on voluminous statistics, including statistics comparing gun laws and gun crime rates in different countries, such as 'Guns and Violence' by Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm of George Mason University. Seldom do these factual studies back up what the gun control zealots are saying. Why would an ultimately factual question about the consequences of gun control laws divide people along ideological lines? Only if at least one set of people were more devoted to their vision than to the facts. This shows up when gun control zealots are asked whether whatever new law they propose would have prevented the shooting rampage that they are using as a stage from which to propose a new clampdown on gun ownership. Almost always, the new law being proposed would not have made the slightest difference. That too is part of the farce. A deadly farce." https://www.desertsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2015/10/17/sowell-gun-control-farce/74058796/


only according to a commie who hasn't read any evidence that might go against the preconceived 'facts' he already adheres to ;) we have plenty of restrictive gun countries where it's virtually impossible to own a firearm legally...move there if you don't want people having guns. luckily in the USA and Argentina, and places like Czech Republic, peaceful citizens can possess firearms for defensive use against violent animals and humans. sorry if you don't like it - there are hundreds of other countries where you can live, where no civilians can own firearms. leave Argentina and the USA alone.


holy hell, i just am now reading this thread (i have most the annoying Local Peronists muted). can you connect me with your people in Mendoza?? this is the first time i'm hearing of anyone with friends/family in Mendoza. i just got here recently, and i was living in Mayor Drummond which is near Lujan de Cuyo. weird! @Shoemaker i'll send you a direct message if you have time.

to the Peronist Locals: guns are already here, more illegal than legal, and peaceful citizens don't use pistols to hurt people; only to defend their families. the law already allows for gun ownership. only communists want to disarm citizens so that restricting rights and ethnic-cleansing/etc. is easier in the future. a disarmed populace is more easily manipulated by the elites or the violent group who gains control: https://www.spartanfirearmstraining...ation-is-easier-to-oppress-than-an-armed-one/
Click to expand...
I have mixed feelings on this. Overall I don't think that more guns in Argentina is a good idea but I see many countries where not having the 2nd amendment is a real problem. My worry is with social media things escalate very quickly. I see this mess in the UK going on and I can see a scenario where there will be mass murders when situations escalate beyond control. Overall I think there are far too many guns in the USA. I can understand the need for guns to protest your home or family but I dont' think anyone needs AR 15 machine guns.
 
Vince said:
I have mixed feelings on this. Overall I don't think that more guns in Argentina is a good idea but I see many countries where not having the 2nd amendment is a real problem. My worry is with social media things escalate very quickly. I see this mess in the UK going on and I can see a scenario where there will be mass murders when situations escalate beyond control. Overall I think there are far too many guns in the USA. I can understand the need for guns to protest your home or family but I dont' think anyone needs AR 15 machine guns.
Click to expand...
I'm in the same camp as you Vince. I have enjoyed living in Argentina for many years without having to worry about gun violence. I do understand the desire for business owners and home owners wanting to protect themselves but I worry that the ease of getting guns will increase the number of guns in the street as well.

I don't believe you will change the minds of those that advocate for more guns. I am not worried about mass murders like some try to play off in the States. More worried that ease of getting guns will make everyday living with criminals getting access to guns more of an issue here. I do understand your points @StatusNomadicus but what do you think would happen in the UK right now if guns were more common like the USA? How do you think that situation in the UK would play out?
 
StatusNomadicus said:
eh, there has never been a good enough answer for how you can defend your family, as well as the answer of a defensive 9mm Glock pistol. until there is an appropriate answer (not: call the police, de-escalate, run, etc.) then my right to defend myself trumps anyone's fear of an inanimate object. i see i tagged you but meant to tag the commie Larry - not sure why my dyslexia did that twice, now. apologies!


according to whose statistics? and does it matter if the killings stayed the same number, but transitioned to knife deaths? the UK has some big issues, most especially in the Islamist grooming gang areas of England. unfortunately, importing military-age males from Muslim-majority countries hasn't been good for the average English citizen, and i don't think it's getting better:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820163941580091661

and knife crimes are massive in the UK. what do you do if a group of 5 masked men come running at your family with knives? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/25/drug-gangs-worst-spike-knife-gun-crime-five-years/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820163362510250325

@GlasgowJohn - my hero Thomas Sowell has also addressed this issue - culture, not gun availability, is the reason for mass-violence in the UK, whether guns in the past or knives now: "many of the most zealous advocates of gun control laws, on both sides of the Atlantic, have also been advocates of leniency toward criminals. In Britain, such people have been so successful that legal gun ownership has been reduced almost to the vanishing point, while even most convicted felons in Britain are not put behind bars. The crime rate, including the rate of crimes committed with guns, is far higher in Britain now than it was back in the days when there were few restrictions on Britons buying firearms. In 1954, there were only a dozen armed robberies in London but, by the 1990s – after decades of ever tightening gun ownership restrictions – there were more than a hundred times as many armed robberies." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/18/great-gun-control-fallacy-thomas-sowell

there are myriad times when a lawfully-armed peaceful citizen has stopped violent crimes or murders, sometimes just using a defensive display. most criminals want to prey on the helpless, like any psychopath/sociopath

1. Colion Noir four-minute explanation:

2. Brazil female mom/off-duty cop stops a make criminal who was aiming his gun at children and women...kinda graphic:

3. three-minute summary of lawful citizens defending themselves against violent psychos:

4. Gun Ownership effective for public: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-l...-effective-self-defense-gun-control-p-142-149

5. over 91% of police officers in a 15,000-officer study said that citizen concealed-carry is good: https://www.police1.com/gun-legisla...st-solution-to-gun-violence-7uwWgZ75iwWz9vI9/
there's a reason most cops will suggest law-abiding peaceful people have a way to protect their family, with a defensive firearm.


the political agencies who publish some stats are including gang-on-gang violence as "mass shootings" - you take away the 0.1% of psycho people (usually recidivist criminals in gangs) and the statistics change A LOT. Thomas Sowell already debunked the Mass-Shooting myth you've brought-up here, in 2016:

"Mass shootings are often used as examples of a need for gun control. But what puts a stop to mass shootings? Usually the arrival on the scene of somebody else with a gun." https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2016/12/30/thomas-sowell-commentary-history-shows/22748858007/

Gun-Free Zones: "One of the many hard facts that gets overlooked by those impressed by visions and rhetoric is that mass shootings almost invariably occur in gun-free zones like schools, workplaces, or houses of worship." https://www.deseret.com/2007/4/26/2...-collective-guilt-has-part-in-mass-shootings/

"Among the other facts that gun control zealots consistently ignore are data on how many lives are saved each year by a defensive use of guns. This seldom requires actually shooting. Just pointing a loaded gun at an assailant is usually enough to get him to back off, often in some haste. There have been books and articles based on voluminous statistics, including statistics comparing gun laws and gun crime rates in different countries, such as 'Guns and Violence' by Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm of George Mason University. Seldom do these factual studies back up what the gun control zealots are saying. Why would an ultimately factual question about the consequences of gun control laws divide people along ideological lines? Only if at least one set of people were more devoted to their vision than to the facts. This shows up when gun control zealots are asked whether whatever new law they propose would have prevented the shooting rampage that they are using as a stage from which to propose a new clampdown on gun ownership. Almost always, the new law being proposed would not have made the slightest difference. That too is part of the farce. A deadly farce." https://www.desertsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2015/10/17/sowell-gun-control-farce/74058796/


only according to a commie who hasn't read any evidence that might go against the preconceived 'facts' he already adheres to ;) we have plenty of restrictive gun countries where it's virtually impossible to own a firearm legally...move there if you don't want people having guns. luckily in the USA and Argentina, and places like Czech Republic, peaceful citizens can possess firearms for defensive use against violent animals and humans. sorry if you don't like it - there are hundreds of other countries where you can live, where no civilians can own firearms. leave Argentina and the USA alone.


holy hell, i just am now reading this thread (i have most the annoying Local Peronists muted). can you connect me with your people in Mendoza?? this is the first time i'm hearing of anyone with friends/family in Mendoza. i just got here recently, and i was living in Mayor Drummond which is near Lujan de Cuyo. weird! @Shoemaker i'll send you a direct message if you have time.

to the Peronist Locals: guns are already here, more illegal than legal, and peaceful citizens don't use pistols to hurt people; only to defend their families. the law already allows for gun ownership. only communists want to disarm citizens so that restricting rights and ethnic-cleansing/etc. is easier in the future. a disarmed populace is more easily manipulated by the elites or the violent group who gains control: https://www.spartanfirearmstraining...ation-is-easier-to-oppress-than-an-armed-one/
Click to expand...
@StatusNomadicus I've been against guns my entire life but you have actually convinced me that guns are not a bad thing. I am seeing what is going on in my beloved UK. I have a good friend that was arrested for sharing a post on Facebook. Nothing violent. I doubt this could happen in the USA with people and their 2nd amendment right to bare arms.

After witnessing this I wouldn't advocate people to ever give up their guns.
 
James Bond said:
@StatusNomadicus I've been against guns my entire life but you have actually convinced me that guns are not a bad thing. I am seeing what is going on in my beloved UK. I have a good friend that was arrested for sharing a post on Facebook. Nothing violent. I doubt this could happen in the USA with people and their 2nd amendment right to bare arms.

After witnessing this I wouldn't advocate people to ever give up their guns.
Click to expand...
Seeing the madness going on in the UK. That is totally nuts that people are getting 20 month jail sentences for posting on Facebook. The government is trying to scare people into submission. I doubt it will work.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1823250042481696961
 
Not a gun guy but philosophically I understand and agree with the principles. In practice, esp in Argentina I guess I don't know enough about the history, but considering its relative safety, I would probably side on limiting it due to unknown secondary effects.

For the pros and principled this is a good read
https://twitter.com/x/status/1823878805812806030
"Free speech, when available, can be used to defend many things, but when it is under threat, it cannot be used to defend itself. The right to bear arms, however, can be used to defend the right to bear arms. And that is the difference."

Arms ultimately defends speech.
 
FuturoBA said:
Not a gun guy but philosophically I understand and agree with the principles. In practice, esp in Argentina I guess I don't know enough about the history, but considering its relative safety, I would probably side on limiting it due to unknown secondary effects.
Click to expand...
Exactly. That is why I prefer gun control in Argentina. Not sure of the unintended consequences. Safety is fairly safe now and don't want that to change.
 
oil rush said:
I don't' have anything against guns as long as they are used responsibly.
Click to expand...
I also support gun rights in America but like there aren't many guns here at all. I can see in the countryside or more rural areas the argument for having guns but I think for Latin America more guns = more problems typically. Guns usually fall into the wrong hands here. But then again I see a lot of business owners standing up for their businesses.
 
While I understand the purely legal arguments regarding lowering the minimum age to 18 for gun ownership, I think it's a terrible idea based on common sense. Kids are mentally maturing at a later age compared to previous generations, therefore, if anything, we should start changing other things with age limits currently set at 18 to a higher age. I also don't like the idea of punishing 13 year-olds as adults. I think the parents of the minors should somehow be held accountable in addition to whatever punishment the minors currently get for various crimes. I'm not suggesting the parents be charged with the same crimes as the ones committed by their kids, but it should be something meaningful to discourage irresponsible parenting that cause harm to others.
 
TonyTigre said:
While I understand the purely legal arguments regarding lowering the minimum age to 18 for gun ownership, I think it's a terrible idea based on common sense. Kids are mentally maturing at a later age compared to previous generations, therefore, if anything, we should start changing other things with age limits currently set at 18 to a higher age. I also don't like the idea of punishing 13 year-olds as adults. I think the parents of the minors should somehow be held accountable in addition to whatever punishment the minors currently get for various crimes. I'm not suggesting the parents be charged with the same crimes as the ones committed by their kids, but it should be something meaningful to discourage irresponsible parenting that cause harm to others.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with your argument @TonyTigre. People aren't mature enough at that age to always use common sense. I don't like guns in Argentina and I especially don't like guns at younger ages!
 
TonyTigre said:
While I understand the purely legal arguments regarding lowering the minimum age to 18 for gun ownership, I think it's a terrible idea based on common sense. Kids are mentally maturing at a later age compared to previous generations, therefore, if anything, we should start changing other things with age limits currently set at 18 to a higher age. I also don't like the idea of punishing 13 year-olds as adults. I think the parents of the minors should somehow be held accountable in addition to whatever punishment the minors currently get for various crimes. I'm not suggesting the parents be charged with the same crimes as the ones committed by their kids, but it should be something meaningful to discourage irresponsible parenting that cause harm to others.
Click to expand...
Thank you! This does not make sense. 18 year olds do NOT need to own guns. I agree with you about 13 year olds. People need to take responsibility for their kids. I am worried about these changes.
 
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