Has anyone applied and been approved for the Rentista visa?

[Nomadoggo]

I have reached a point of confusion and I feel like I must be missing something.

So, far I have met with a lawyer and he said the items I need for my application are:

• A signed lease agreement (at least a year)
• Proof of homeownership (warranty deed)
• FBI background check

All needing to be apostilled, but not notarized. Well, I can’t have documents apostilled without being notarized in the US. I have the option of having a true copy affidavit done for my lease agreement in order for it to be apostilled. However, the lawyer says that a true copy affidavit won’t work for the lease agreement, but he also in a separate message said that affidavits should work in the case of “private documents”. To me a lease between landlord and tenants sounds like a private document…


The guy doing the apostille says that I essentially have 2 options regarding the lease agreement:

• Have the true copy affidavit
• Have a new lease signed in front of a notary

I’m in Argentina so I can’t have a new lease done in front of a notary, which leaves me with the affidavit option, that the lawyer is saying won’t work. Has anybody come across this? Has anybody overcome this?


I’d love to hear from those who have been approved for the Rentista visa and what documents ended up working.

 

[Vince]

I don't think you can get something in the USA Apostillized without being notarized. You are right about that. I did not go through the rentista option but I have friends that did but not recently. They used Attorney Celano. I am confused why it would matter that it is notarized as well. In my experience in Argentina with various documents all they care about is that it has the Apostille. That is what makes them legal in Argentina.

I know one friend that did the rentista option 2 years ago and he was pulling his hair out for some of it. He ended up having to go back to the USA for something and maybe that is it. Typically all that matters is Apostille but your lawyer would know best. Does your attorney not have similar situations with Americans? Many things here can make you want to pull your hair out.

Much of this is red tape and someone in Argentina just wants to see a stamp on it. Can you do some fake lease and sign it at the USA Embassy and have them notarize it?

 

[Wally]

You can go on the old forum and there are a ton of rentista threads. Rentista seems to be fairly cut and dry but I do believe that the lease has to be Notarized. I have not gone through the process personally but know others that did in the past. But they probably had the option to get the lease notarized and were not already here or they went back to get this requirement done.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

on the old forum the Rentista Residency is discussed a lot more than here so far, but no one has mentioned this aspect of the requirements. Migraciones' list shows you need a 1+ year contract signed, but nothing about the specifics. the old (censored) forum has:

1. talk about Rentista applications 'saling through' with a contract, but no mention how the Landlord would get a notarized and thus Apostilled rental contract. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-passive-income-through-irrevocable-trust.46341/post-438030

2. talk about showing a Rental Contract and bank statements/income, but no info about how to get the rent contract notarized. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-how-many-months-of-passive-income-i-have-to-show.46153/

3. one person asked "Do I need to provide a contract/bank statement? It doesn't say on the list of requirements in the official link. They are both in English and can be translated but not apostilled for sure, would that be okay?" - but no one answered about Notarizing/Apostilling. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-citizenship-via-naturalization-and-tax-compliance.46050/

4. one response was "You will need to provide the rental contract itself" but no one talks about signing, notarizing, apostilling, and how the Tenants would be expected to take a rental contract and get it notarized for the landlord, then mail it to get apostilled. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-visa-lease-agreement.45908/#post-432921

5. this thread just says 'always use a lawyer for Rentista' yet even lawyers i've consulted on Student Residencies and Rentista have no clue on specifics. they just try and then keep trying. https://baexpats.org/threads/how-of...sa-if-you-are-denied.45346/page-3#post-428611

6. this thread says 'several people have gotten Rentista' but no one is named, and no one offered to help. the discussion of Contracts did not mention the impossibility of getting it notarized/apostilled with the Tenant doing all the work for the landlord (versus a "True Copy Affidavit" PDF Notary). https://baexpats.org/threads/rentis...-from-a-mortgaged-property.44471/#post-417000

7. this thread says it's easy: "you copy the rental contract, get it notarized and apostilled, and voila." - but there is no mention of in-person Notary versus True Copy Affidavit, still. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-visa.42244/page-3#post-380715

what we DO know about Rentista Residencies is that Migraciones now requires a rental contract a year or more (impossible for most people renting on FurnishedFinder or Airbnb in the USA) as noted here:

"Titularidad de Bienes Inmuebles

• Título de Propiedad
• Contrato de Locación del cual surja la renta percibida. (contrato de un mínimo de 1 año de duración desde la presentación a Migraciones)(monto mínimo $ 30.000 pesos)
• Comprobante de la extracción de fondos a través de la cual se percibe la cuenta (comprobante cajero automático en la República Argentina)

[Ownership of Real Estate

• Property deed
• Lease Contract from which the rent originates (contract of a minimum duration of 1 year from presentation to Migrations) (minimum amount $30,000 pesos)
• Proof of the withdrawal of funds through which the account is received (ATM receipt in the Argentine Republic)]"

In addition, almost every lawyer now has told me that there will need to be a number of deposits into a local bank account ... money being transferred in Pesos to an Argentine bank account monthly (unknown number of times, or if it will be the lower/official rate). This is something Migraciones seems to have added just for kicks.

Other sites/lawyers will say you just need to withdraw your foreign checking account from an Argentine ATM and then upload a photo to RADEX, so Migraciones can see that you're able to take out money locally from your Rentista-filled checking account.

The RADEX information is only available (from what I can tell) when you're logged-in, so this attached PDF might not be publicly available, but it is absolutely clear on Migraciones' RADEX site. check it out!

TL;DR - i'm not sure anyone on these forums has ever submitted a Rentista residency and gotten it approved, and how a Rental Contract can be Apostilled if it's not possible to Notarize it (alreddy signed by the Tenants), and no one seems to know the difference between a True Copy Affidavit w/ Notary versus the typical Notary you do in-person (where the Notary watches you sign). https://www.nationalnotary.org/notary-bulletin/blog/2014/04/how-to-certify-copy-document

-----------
@Vince yes Apostille usually requires a Notary, but in the case of some official documents, they don't need to be Notarized, it just requires there to be an official signature. for instance, my Birth Certificate was sent from my state to Dan Hickman in Tennessee, where he got it Apostilled from the original state, no notary needed (it was apostilling the original doctor/etc. signatures, and verifying it was real). also, my LLC Articles did not need a Notary, since the Secretary of State already had a signature on them. and my FBI Rap Sheet didn't need a notary, because the Federa Apostille was just verifying the original FBI signature. but my Bank Account PDF needed to be True Copy Affidavit Notarized and then Apostilled in Tennessee, then mailed to me.

@Wally it's not so easy anymore since Migraciones is adding extra steps that are illegal (i'm currently trying the Bank Account version of Rentista, and it's hard). the Rental Contract getting Notarized and Apostilled sounds easy, but Argentina doesn't like USA Notaries (lawyers can battle this) and Apostilling requires an official signature to happen (which would require a Notary). if True Copy Affidavit Notary won't work for an existing Rental Contract, and the Landlord @Nomadoggo can't go back to the States or beg the tenant to do all this in-person legwork to get it Notarized, then Apostilled in that state, then i don't think anyone knows what Migraciones is expecting or if it's even possible.

 

[crypto]

on the old forum the Rentista Residency is discussed a lot more than here so far, but no one has mentioned this aspect of the requirements. Migraciones' list shows you need a 1+ year contract signed, but nothing about the specifics. the old (censored) forum has:

1. talk about Rentista applications 'saling through' with a contract, but no mention how the Landlord would get a notarized and thus Apostilled rental contract. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-passive-income-through-irrevocable-trust.46341/post-438030

2. talk about showing a Rental Contract and bank statements/income, but no info about how to get the rent contract notarized. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-how-many-months-of-passive-income-i-have-to-show.46153/

3. one person asked "Do I need to provide a contract/bank statement? It doesn't say on the list of requirements in the official link. They are both in English and can be translated but not apostilled for sure, would that be okay?" - but no one answered about Notarizing/Apostilling. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-citizenship-via-naturalization-and-tax-compliance.46050/

4. one response was "You will need to provide the rental contract itself" but no one talks about signing, notarizing, apostilling, and how the Tenants would be expected to take a rental contract and get it notarized for the landlord, then mail it to get apostilled. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-visa-lease-agreement.45908/#post-432921

5. this thread just says 'always use a lawyer for Rentista' yet even lawyers i've consulted on Student Residencies and Rentista have no clue on specifics. they just try and then keep trying. https://baexpats.org/threads/how-of...sa-if-you-are-denied.45346/page-3#post-428611

6. this thread says 'several people have gotten Rentista' but no one is named, and no one offered to help. the discussion of Contracts did not mention the impossibility of getting it notarized/apostilled with the Tenant doing all the work for the landlord (versus a "True Copy Affidavit" PDF Notary). https://baexpats.org/threads/rentis...-from-a-mortgaged-property.44471/#post-417000

7. this thread says it's easy: "you copy the rental contract, get it notarized and apostilled, and voila." - but there is no mention of in-person Notary versus True Copy Affidavit, still. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-visa.42244/page-3#post-380715

what we DO know about Rentista Residencies is that Migraciones now requires a rental contract a year or more (impossible for most people renting on FurnishedFinder or Airbnb in the USA) as noted here:

"Titularidad de Bienes Inmuebles

• Título de Propiedad
• Contrato de Locación del cual surja la renta percibida. (contrato de un mínimo de 1 año de duración desde la presentación a Migraciones)(monto mínimo $ 30.000 pesos)
• Comprobante de la extracción de fondos a través de la cual se percibe la cuenta (comprobante cajero automático en la República Argentina)

[Ownership of Real Estate

• Property deed
• Lease Contract from which the rent originates (contract of a minimum duration of 1 year from presentation to Migrations) (minimum amount $30,000 pesos)
• Proof of the withdrawal of funds through which the account is received (ATM receipt in the Argentine Republic)]"

In addition, almost every lawyer now has told me that there will need to be a number of deposits into a local bank account ... money being transferred in Pesos to an Argentine bank account monthly (unknown number of times, or if it will be the lower/official rate). This is something Migraciones seems to have added just for kicks.

Other sites/lawyers will say you just need to withdraw your foreign checking account from an Argentine ATM and then upload a photo to RADEX, so Migraciones can see that you're able to take out money locally from your Rentista-filled checking account.

The RADEX information is only available (from what I can tell) when you're logged-in, so this attached PDF might not be publicly available, but it is absolutely clear on Migraciones' RADEX site. check it out!

TL;DR - i'm not sure anyone on these forums has ever submitted a Rentista residency and gotten it approved, and how a Rental Contract can be Apostilled if it's not possible to Notarize it (alreddy signed by the Tenants), and no one seems to know the difference between a True Copy Affidavit w/ Notary versus the typical Notary you do in-person (where the Notary watches you sign). https://www.nationalnotary.org/notary-bulletin/blog/2014/04/how-to-certify-copy-document

-----------
@Vince yes Apostille usually requires a Notary, but in the case of some official documents, they don't need to be Notarized, it just requires there to be an official signature. for instance, my Birth Certificate was sent from my state to Dan Hickman in Tennessee, where he got it Apostilled from the original state, no notary needed (it was apostilling the original doctor/etc. signatures, and verifying it was real). also, my LLC Articles did not need a Notary, since the Secretary of State already had a signature on them. and my FBI Rap Sheet didn't need a notary, because the Federa Apostille was just verifying the original FBI signature. but my Bank Account PDF needed to be True Copy Affidavit Notarized and then Apostilled in Tennessee, then mailed to me.

@Wally it's not so easy anymore since Migraciones is adding extra steps that are illegal (i'm currently trying the Bank Account version of Rentista, and it's hard). the Rental Contract getting Notarized and Apostilled sounds easy, but Argentina doesn't like USA Notaries (lawyers can battle this) and Apostilling requires an official signature to happen (which would require a Notary). if True Copy Affidavit Notary won't work for an existing Rental Contract, and the Landlord @Nomadoggo can't go back to the States or beg the tenant to do all this in-person legwork to get it Notarized, then Apostilled in that state, then i don't think anyone knows what Migraciones is expecting or if it's even possible.

WOW! This is good stuff and for sure will help others. To me it sounds like a lot of stuff is changing. I read about the recent changes requiring funds to get sent in. It all sounds very complex. Too bad Argentina does not make it easy as it sounds like many expats are willing to be legal but it's too archaic so they just end up being permanent tourists and overstaying or extending. What a mess. I hope you figure it out.

 

[Wally]

on the old forum the Rentista Residency is discussed a lot more than here so far, but no one has mentioned this aspect of the requirements. Migraciones' list shows you need a 1+ year contract signed, but nothing about the specifics. the old (censored) forum has:

1. talk about Rentista applications 'saling through' with a contract, but no mention how the Landlord would get a notarized and thus Apostilled rental contract. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-passive-income-through-irrevocable-trust.46341/post-438030

2. talk about showing a Rental Contract and bank statements/income, but no info about how to get the rent contract notarized. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-how-many-months-of-passive-income-i-have-to-show.46153/

3. one person asked "Do I need to provide a contract/bank statement? It doesn't say on the list of requirements in the official link. They are both in English and can be translated but not apostilled for sure, would that be okay?" - but no one answered about Notarizing/Apostilling. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-citizenship-via-naturalization-and-tax-compliance.46050/

4. one response was "You will need to provide the rental contract itself" but no one talks about signing, notarizing, apostilling, and how the Tenants would be expected to take a rental contract and get it notarized for the landlord, then mail it to get apostilled. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-visa-lease-agreement.45908/#post-432921

5. this thread just says 'always use a lawyer for Rentista' yet even lawyers i've consulted on Student Residencies and Rentista have no clue on specifics. they just try and then keep trying. https://baexpats.org/threads/how-of...sa-if-you-are-denied.45346/page-3#post-428611

6. this thread says 'several people have gotten Rentista' but no one is named, and no one offered to help. the discussion of Contracts did not mention the impossibility of getting it notarized/apostilled with the Tenant doing all the work for the landlord (versus a "True Copy Affidavit" PDF Notary). https://baexpats.org/threads/rentis...-from-a-mortgaged-property.44471/#post-417000

7. this thread says it's easy: "you copy the rental contract, get it notarized and apostilled, and voila." - but there is no mention of in-person Notary versus True Copy Affidavit, still. https://baexpats.org/threads/rentista-visa.42244/page-3#post-380715

what we DO know about Rentista Residencies is that Migraciones now requires a rental contract a year or more (impossible for most people renting on FurnishedFinder or Airbnb in the USA) as noted here:

"Titularidad de Bienes Inmuebles

• Título de Propiedad
• Contrato de Locación del cual surja la renta percibida. (contrato de un mínimo de 1 año de duración desde la presentación a Migraciones)(monto mínimo $ 30.000 pesos)
• Comprobante de la extracción de fondos a través de la cual se percibe la cuenta (comprobante cajero automático en la República Argentina)

[Ownership of Real Estate

• Property deed
• Lease Contract from which the rent originates (contract of a minimum duration of 1 year from presentation to Migrations) (minimum amount $30,000 pesos)
• Proof of the withdrawal of funds through which the account is received (ATM receipt in the Argentine Republic)]"

In addition, almost every lawyer now has told me that there will need to be a number of deposits into a local bank account ... money being transferred in Pesos to an Argentine bank account monthly (unknown number of times, or if it will be the lower/official rate). This is something Migraciones seems to have added just for kicks.

Other sites/lawyers will say you just need to withdraw your foreign checking account from an Argentine ATM and then upload a photo to RADEX, so Migraciones can see that you're able to take out money locally from your Rentista-filled checking account.

The RADEX information is only available (from what I can tell) when you're logged-in, so this attached PDF might not be publicly available, but it is absolutely clear on Migraciones' RADEX site. check it out!

TL;DR - i'm not sure anyone on these forums has ever submitted a Rentista residency and gotten it approved, and how a Rental Contract can be Apostilled if it's not possible to Notarize it (alreddy signed by the Tenants), and no one seems to know the difference between a True Copy Affidavit w/ Notary versus the typical Notary you do in-person (where the Notary watches you sign). https://www.nationalnotary.org/notary-bulletin/blog/2014/04/how-to-certify-copy-document

-----------
@Vince yes Apostille usually requires a Notary, but in the case of some official documents, they don't need to be Notarized, it just requires there to be an official signature. for instance, my Birth Certificate was sent from my state to Dan Hickman in Tennessee, where he got it Apostilled from the original state, no notary needed (it was apostilling the original doctor/etc. signatures, and verifying it was real). also, my LLC Articles did not need a Notary, since the Secretary of State already had a signature on them. and my FBI Rap Sheet didn't need a notary, because the Federa Apostille was just verifying the original FBI signature. but my Bank Account PDF needed to be True Copy Affidavit Notarized and then Apostilled in Tennessee, then mailed to me.

@Wally it's not so easy anymore since Migraciones is adding extra steps that are illegal (i'm currently trying the Bank Account version of Rentista, and it's hard). the Rental Contract getting Notarized and Apostilled sounds easy, but Argentina doesn't like USA Notaries (lawyers can battle this) and Apostilling requires an official signature to happen (which would require a Notary). if True Copy Affidavit Notary won't work for an existing Rental Contract, and the Landlord @Nomadoggo can't go back to the States or beg the tenant to do all this in-person legwork to get it Notarized, then Apostilled in that state, then i don't think anyone knows what Migraciones is expecting or if it's even possible.

Yikers. No one can accuse you of not researching. You are figuring out what many of us living here for many years already knows. Nothing is easy here in Argentina and the government keeps changing things making it more difficult. Sometimes people start the process and then a law changes making things moot or obsolete.

I did read about the changes of local deposits needing to be in pesos at official rate. At least the amount is almost the same now. But it sounds like wasted money for a few months. One thing I noticed is not too many people are willing to share good information once they are successful here with rentista. I'm not sure why.

I hope you get it figured out. Good luck.

 

[Digital Nomad]

WOW! This is good stuff and for sure will help others. To me it sounds like a lot of stuff is changing. I read about the recent changes requiring funds to get sent in. It all sounds very complex. Too bad Argentina does not make it easy as it sounds like many expats are willing to be legal but it's too archaic so they just end up being permanent tourists and overstaying or extending. What a mess. I hope you figure it out.

Exactly. I'd be willing to pay some fee to get residency here. I am looking to purchase a property here and hopefully in the future that helps with getting residency here but so far it won't help.

I have reached a point of confusion and I feel like I must be missing something.

So, far I have met with a lawyer and he said the items I need for my application are:

• A signed lease agreement (at least a year)
• Proof of homeownership (warranty deed)
• FBI background check

All needing to be apostilled, but not notarized. Well, I can’t have documents apostilled without being notarized in the US. I have the option of having a true copy affidavit done for my lease agreement in order for it to be apostilled. However, the lawyer says that a true copy affidavit won’t work for the lease agreement, but he also in a separate message said that affidavits should work in the case of “private documents”. To me a lease between landlord and tenants sounds like a private document…


The guy doing the apostille says that I essentially have 2 options regarding the lease agreement:

• Have the true copy affidavit
• Have a new lease signed in front of a notary

I’m in Argentina so I can’t have a new lease done in front of a notary, which leaves me with the affidavit option, that the lawyer is saying won’t work. Has anybody come across this? Has anybody overcome this?


I’d love to hear from those who have been approved for the Rentista visa and what documents ended up working.

@Nomadoggo can you set up an LLC to just pay yourself each month? I read this thread on another forum of an American that get a rentista visa here with LLC. I mistakenly thought rentista was only for rental income but she sounds like she was successful with Celano using LLC income.

Rentista - Freelance/LLC Owner

Having just gotten my rentista residency approval (woo hoo!), I thought I'd write a couple of notes on my situation for anyone in the future looking for info about whether it's possible to have a successful application as a freelance consultant with clients outside of Argentina. I can't really...

baexpats.org

The annoying thing here is things keep changing and everything takes forever so there is no guarantee if you start that it will be the same when you finish.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

it sounds like a lot of stuff is changing

from what i understand, the ever-changing aspect of Argentina is its one form of stability

we'll all get this all figured-out. i agree it's a mess, and frustrating because Milei could have his immigration czar totally revamp this and bring in a ton of money for the nat'l debt. part of me coming here and joining this forum was to do things in real-time and document it, so my family/friends/you guys can save time if you pursue similar paths

it sounds like wasted money for a few month

true, but i did the math and my backup plan to attend university in Belgrano (rare English-taught classes; i don't want to study in Spanish, no offense to latinos) would cost a couple thousand every year, so it should still be overall cheaper to lose some % on monthly deposits until Migraciones is appeased. one lawyer i met with said it would only be around 3 months' worth to demonstrate it all.

not too many people are willing to share good information once they are successful here with rentista. I'm not sure why.

agreed; so many people ask for help, figure something out, then never report back. i have used Reddit and forums like these to solve so many problems in my life, so i really try to document everything when i actually discover something. we think the Internet has been around for so long that everything is online, but even the process for an extension/prorroga at Migraciones in BsAs is only correct in one blog i've seen so far (posted on this forum elsewhere by another user)

I'd be willing to pay some fee to get residency here.

i said this, and @earlyretirement disagrees with me that a regular-person Residency/Citizenship isn't logical, but i really think Milei could pay-off all debt if he catered to people like you and i. with all the red tape and fees, like i said here:

Banking - Details about bringing in ALL those US Dollars that are held outside Argentina

This is GREAT news!! Money that has been stashed away under mattresses or in offshore accounts is now permitted to re-enter the system without facing penalties, and seemingly, without the need to provide a justification for its origin. This applies to dollars in general, not exclusively those...

www.expatsba.com

...i would pay 50k USD to not have to deal with nonsense, and be guaranteed citizenship after a probationary period without any criminal convictions. i'm sure i'm not the only one. and if it was payable in Bitcoin/crypto, i'm sure even more people would do it (El Salvador is leading the way, here)

I am looking to purchase a property here and hopefully in the future that helps with getting residency here but so far it won't help.

lawyers say yes and no. i think if you're going to anyway (like i am), it certainly won't hurt you when applying for citizenship (hey Judge, i have been here 2 years and i own an apartment!)

The LLC thing is a great link, thanks! i hadn't seen that (that censored forum lost my 'business' last year). what is worrisome is how much tax will be due for her LLC, since she's reporting income to Argentina. hopefully none, but you never know. this is why i didn't end up doing the LLC route or Trust route, because it's all fake (technically, even the CPA Letter) and i thought the Rentista Savings route would be less exposure to Argentine taxes in the worst-case scenario.

but good to know that LLC payments, with a CUIL number that allowed for a Santander Peso/USD account in Argentina, is actually possible in 2024! Celano charges $3,000 USD from what i've read, and his office was so backed-up and bad at responding that i switched and did a consult with $500-per-submittal Agustin Beaudean to see what he thought of my chances:

Recommendations for Attorneys

I am looking for referrals to Anglophone immigration attorneys who can advise me on the best paths to naturalization given my individual situation. I did search the forum before making this thread; the only name I could find was Gabriel Celano and one of the posts indicated that he is not doing...

baexpats.org

 

[earlyretirement]

from what i understand, the ever-changing aspect of Argentina is its one form of stability

we'll all get this all figured-out. i agree it's a mess, and frustrating because Milei could have his immigration czar totally revamp this and bring in a ton of money for the nat'l debt. part of me coming here and joining this forum was to do things in real-time and document it, so my family/friends/you guys can save time if you pursue similar paths


true, but i did the math and my backup plan to attend university in Belgrano (rare English-taught classes; i don't want to study in Spanish, no offense to latinos) would cost a couple thousand every year, so it should still be overall cheaper to lose some % on monthly deposits until Migraciones is appeased. one lawyer i met with said it would only be around 3 months' worth to demonstrate it all.


agreed; so many people ask for help, figure something out, then never report back. i have used Reddit and forums like these to solve so many problems in my life, so i really try to document everything when i actually discover something. we think the Internet has been around for so long that everything is online, but even the process for an extension/prorroga at Migraciones in BsAs is only correct in one blog i've seen so far (posted on this forum elsewhere by another user)


i said this, and @earlyretirement disagrees with me that a regular-person Residency/Citizenship isn't logical, but i really think Milei could pay-off all debt if he catered to people like you and i. with all the red tape and fees, like i said here:

Banking - Details about bringing in ALL those US Dollars that are held outside Argentina

This is GREAT news!! Money that has been stashed away under mattresses or in offshore accounts is now permitted to re-enter the system without facing penalties, and seemingly, without the need to provide a justification for its origin. This applies to dollars in general, not exclusively those...

www.expatsba.com

...i would pay 50k USD to not have to deal with nonsense, and be guaranteed citizenship after a probationary period without any criminal convictions. i'm sure i'm not the only one. and if it was payable in Bitcoin/crypto, i'm sure even more people would do it (El Salvador is leading the way, here)


lawyers say yes and no. i think if you're going to anyway (like i am), it certainly won't hurt you when applying for citizenship (hey Judge, i have been here 2 years and i own an apartment!)

The LLC thing is a great link, thanks! i hadn't seen that (that censored forum lost my 'business' last year). what is worrisome is how much tax will be due for her LLC, since she's reporting income to Argentina. hopefully none, but you never know. this is why i didn't end up doing the LLC route or Trust route, because it's all fake (technically, even the CPA Letter) and i thought the Rentista Savings route would be less exposure to Argentine taxes in the worst-case scenario.

but good to know that LLC payments, with a CUIL number that allowed for a Santander Peso/USD account in Argentina, is actually possible in 2024! Celano charges $3,000 USD from what i've read, and his office was so backed-up and bad at responding that i switched and did a consult with $500-per-submittal Agustin Beaudean to see what he thought of my chances:

Recommendations for Attorneys

I am looking for referrals to Anglophone immigration attorneys who can advise me on the best paths to naturalization given my individual situation. I did search the forum before making this thread; the only name I could find was Gabriel Celano and one of the posts indicated that he is not doing...

baexpats.org

Lots of great info on this thread. Great with all the URL links as I've always believed the sharing of good information is extremely valuable online. @StatusNomadicus I am not against some pay to get residency here. I just didn't think it was likely that many individuals would do that for Argentina. It has been extremely easy for people to stay in Argentina. Of course that could change in the future. I do think that permanent residency in Argentina or Citizenship here can be valuable in the future.

I think when it comes time to Citizenship, for sure owning property would help as it will show a tie to the country. As you mentioned, it definitely won't hurt. If you wanted to own here but I wouldn't necessarily recommend to buy real estate here just for that reason.

As you mentioned, on the LLC or the Trust route I think people doing that is mostly all fake. Of course, there could be exceptions to the rule but as you mentioned it is probably fake including the CPA Letter. It is good that the person at least shared the information with others which I applaud.

I wish Argentina made it easier for foreigners that want to live here without jumping through all these hoops. I spent thousands and thousands of dollars many years ago to get my DNI and permanent residency but I'm glad I did it all.

What a frustrating experience @Nomadoggo with the documents! I've dealt with so many Apostilles over the past 22 years as almost all of our clients retained my firm to close for them and Power of Attorney documents are involved so everything requires a Hague Convention Apostille seal on it unless they signed in front of our Escribano here in Buenos Aires.

I have had clients that got the rentista visa before but I don't think they had the 1 year minimum contract on it. Will Airbnb statements of income not work over the past year? I haven't kept up on this matter in Argentina so I don't know what the latest requirements are. Argentina is a complete nightmare.

In Mexico they would allow me to use bank statements that showed the Airbnb ACH deposits each month. I assume Argentina isn't so logical but thanks for sharing information that you find out as it will be helpful to others too. Good luck!

 

[Faith]

I have reached a point of confusion and I feel like I must be missing something.

So, far I have met with a lawyer and he said the items I need for my application are:

• A signed lease agreement (at least a year)
• Proof of homeownership (warranty deed)
• FBI background check

All needing to be apostilled, but not notarized. Well, I can’t have documents apostilled without being notarized in the US. I have the option of having a true copy affidavit done for my lease agreement in order for it to be apostilled. However, the lawyer says that a true copy affidavit won’t work for the lease agreement, but he also in a separate message said that affidavits should work in the case of “private documents”. To me a lease between landlord and tenants sounds like a private document…


The guy doing the apostille says that I essentially have 2 options regarding the lease agreement:

• Have the true copy affidavit
• Have a new lease signed in front of a notary

I’m in Argentina so I can’t have a new lease done in front of a notary, which leaves me with the affidavit option, that the lawyer is saying won’t work. Has anybody come across this? Has anybody overcome this?


I’d love to hear from those who have been approved for the Rentista visa and what documents ended up working.

Can you just have a friend or family member back in the USA do a fake contract and have it signed in front of a Notary Public and then DHL you the forms and then you sign in the US Embassy?

 

[Nomadoggo]

What a frustrating experience @Nomadoggo with the documents! I've dealt with so many Apostilles over the past 22 years as almost all of our clients retained my firm to close for them and Power of Attorney documents are involved so everything requires a Hague Convention Apostille seal on it unless they signed in front of our Escribano here in Buenos Aires.

I have had clients that got the rentista visa before but I don't think they had the 1 year minimum contract on it. Will Airbnb statements of income not work over the past year? I haven't kept up on this matter in Argentina so I don't know what the latest requirements are. Argentina is a complete nightmare.

It has been equal parts confusing and equal parts frustrating. It seems like I can ask the same question at separate times and get opposing answers.

I wondered the same thing about Airbnb and showing bank statements because that was how I anticipated I was going to show proof that I have the adequate amount of income each month. But per the lawyer he basically said that bank statements won't work because "migraciones can't prove they're legit"... but again... notary, apostille, affidavit documents...?? The way now to prove the income portion is that once they have reviewed your application you have to open up an Argentine bank account and deposit, I believe approx. $3,000USD give or take and then show them your Argentine bank statements. The rationale behind not using Airbnb and having a 1 year lease is because migraciones wants to see that you will have adequate income for the duration of your visa (1 year). And per the lawyer if I were to have let's say a 3 month or 6 months lease, there is a chance that by the time migraciones gets to my application the 3 or 6 month lease won't be valid anymore and my case will essentially get thrown out or I will only be granted a visa for the time remaining of the lease.

 

[Nomadoggo]

Can you just have a friend or family member back in the USA do a fake contract and have it signed in front of a Notary Public and then DHL you the forms and then you sign in the US Embassy?

I am not an expert with things like notaries... would I be able to sign after the notary has already been done? I will have to look into this option! I am really not wanting to "fake" anything, even though Argentina is almost making that my only option.

 

[Nomadoggo]

You can go on the old forum and there are a ton of rentista threads. Rentista seems to be fairly cut and dry but I do believe that the lease has to be Notarized. I have not gone through the process personally but know others that did in the past. But they probably had the option to get the lease notarized and were not already here or they went back to get this requirement done.

I thought that the Rentista option sounded super cut and dry, even after meeting with the lawyer.. but now that I am getting down to the nuts and bolts of the process i'm being stumped by technicalities... yes! that would have made it much easier.. thanks! someone just posted a bunch of info from the old forum

 

[Nomadoggo]

I don't think you can get something in the USA Apostillized without being notarized. You are right about that. I did not go through the rentista option but I have friends that did but not recently. They used Attorney Celano. I am confused why it would matter that it is notarized as well. In my experience in Argentina with various documents all they care about is that it has the Apostille. That is what makes them legal in Argentina.

I know one friend that did the rentista option 2 years ago and he was pulling his hair out for some of it. He ended up having to go back to the USA for something and maybe that is it. Typically all that matters is Apostille but your lawyer would know best. Does your attorney not have similar situations with Americans? Many things here can make you want to pull your hair out.

Much of this is red tape and someone in Argentina just wants to see a stamp on it. Can you do some fake lease and sign it at the USA Embassy and have them notarize it?

I think migraciones keeps everyone guessing, including the lawyers. My initial interaction, like I said, the lawyer told me "no notary, they don't like them".. and my follow up was "the US has to notarize in order to apostille".

He said "But if the title of property is notarized, Migraciones may not accept it. At least, I have had cases in which it was not."

So, it sounds like it depends on the day, who you get to review your application, if they have had coffee, etc. I really don't understand how some can get accepted and some can't... I have had a few recommendations for a fake lease, I just really don't want to fake things, mostly because I legit meet the requirements and don't want it to bite me in the future (for some unknown reason).. but migraciones sure is making it seem like this is the option I'm headed for

 

[earlyretirement]

It has been equal parts confusing and equal parts frustrating. It seems like I can ask the same question at separate times and get opposing answers.

I wondered the same thing about Airbnb and showing bank statements because that was how I anticipated I was going to show proof that I have the adequate amount of income each month. But per the lawyer he basically said that bank statements won't work because "migraciones can't prove they're legit"... but again... notary, apostille, affidavit documents...?? The way now to prove the income portion is that once they have reviewed your application you have to open up an Argentine bank account and deposit, I believe approx. $3,000USD give or take and then show them your Argentine bank statements. The rationale behind not using Airbnb and having a 1 year lease is because migraciones wants to see that you will have adequate income for the duration of your visa (1 year). And per the lawyer if I were to have let's say a 3 month or 6 months lease, there is a chance that by the time migraciones gets to my application the 3 or 6 month lease won't be valid anymore and my case will essentially get thrown out or I will only be granted a visa for the time remaining of the lease.

You're exactly right about asking the same question and getting different answers. Sometimes by the same people you asked the question to a week early! Argentina is in a constant flux. That continues to be the single most annoying thing about Argentina. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. That makes sense about the long-term contract I guess but I think the way Mexico does it with showing the past 12 months bank statements works pretty well. Of course, past history is no guarantee of future results. It is pathetic how difficult everything is here and how long things take. Everything is slow here.

I am not an expert with things like notaries... would I be able to sign after the notary has already been done? I will have to look into this option! I am really not wanting to "fake" anything, even though Argentina is almost making that my only option.

This might actually be a possibility and you should ask your attorney if it would work if someone signed the contract in the USA and had their signature notarized and then you signed it here either in front of an Escribano or the US Embassy might be able to certify the signature? Or maybe an Argentine consultate office here? I agree it's not good to fake anything but I have talked to many people that go that route because of what you're experiencing with this impossible task. It sounds like the only option they are giving you is to fly back to the USA and sign the contract again with your tenant. You might want to investigate this option if you absolutely can't fly back.

The downside of this option is that you could do that and then they will tell you it changed and wasted time, money and hassles. One thing I know from 22 years of dealing with bureaucracy here, Argentina likes things stamped.. Ha.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

It sounds like the only option they are giving you is to fly back to the USA and sign the contract again with your tenant

but even this, in my situation before i sold my USA house, was not going to guarantee anything, because the Lease would be signed by Tenant/Landlord, then Notarized/Apostilled, and then Migraciones could say that the USA Notary isn't legit. the lawyers i talked to wanted a CPA Letter which basically costs 800-2000 USD for a CPA to lie on paper and say 'based on what they are telling me, yes, they do have the money!' (the CPA can't promise anything; i could spend all my rent money the next day)

also not an option for me because i already have 4 months of residency on this extended Tourist Visa, so i would fly back and lose 4 months toward my 2 years (from what i understand, if you leave before you have a Precaria/Residency, your time for the 2 years isn't "locked")

 

[Spend Thrift]

but even this, in my situation before i sold my USA house, was not going to guarantee anything, because the Lease would be signed by Tenant/Landlord, then Notarized/Apostilled, and then Migraciones could say that the USA Notary isn't legit. the lawyers i talked to wanted a CPA Letter which basically costs 800-2000 USD for a CPA to lie on paper and say 'based on what they are telling me, yes, they do have the money!' (the CPA can't promise anything; i could spend all my rent money the next day)

also not an option for me because i already have 4 months of residency on this extended Tourist Visa, so i would fly back and lose 4 months toward my 2 years (from what i understand, if you leave before you have a Precaria/Residency, your time for the 2 years isn't "locked")

They sure do not make anything easy in this country. But then again I would assume getting permanent residency in the USA isn't easy or cheap either.

 

[earlyretirement]

but even this, in my situation before i sold my USA house, was not going to guarantee anything, because the Lease would be signed by Tenant/Landlord, then Notarized/Apostilled, and then Migraciones could say that the USA Notary isn't legit. the lawyers i talked to wanted a CPA Letter which basically costs 800-2000 USD for a CPA to lie on paper and say 'based on what they are telling me, yes, they do have the money!' (the CPA can't promise anything; i could spend all my rent money the next day)

also not an option for me because i already have 4 months of residency on this extended Tourist Visa, so i would fly back and lose 4 months toward my 2 years (from what i understand, if you leave before you have a Precaria/Residency, your time for the 2 years isn't "locked")

What you mentioned is the most frustrating thing about Argentina. What you mentioned on the CPA letter is absolutely true but Argentina is all about stamps, statements and official letters. Ha. Some of it makes sense but others like this don't. The frustrating thing is things can and do change sometimes while you're waiting to process paperwork and then you have to start all over in some cases.

I do still think it can be worthwhile to go through this process. I believe permanent residency and/or Citizenship here in Argentina will be valuable in the future. Most likely it won't be as easy in the future to be a perma-tourist and/or get permanent residency here. I also believe costs will continue to go up here.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

I believe permanent residency and/or Citizenship here in Argentina will be valuable in the future

agreed, as does @BowTiedMara:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772054003880284666

 

[Betsy Ross]

agreed, as does @BowTiedMara:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772054003880284666

I totally agree with this as well. Writing seems to be on the wall with a renewed interest in Argentina by many.