Argentina Rentista Visa for 2024? What is the minimum income now for retirement visa for Argentina?

[FuturoBA]

i'll check these links out, thanks. i've made a lot of money and spent a lot, and it's never fulfilling. i've stayed in 400-dollar-a-night suites in Dubai and bought new nice cars, but i think the USA is a prime example of becoming a "slave" to these types of luxuries...do i need to work until 85 years old so that i can have the newest iPhone and a new car traded-in every 2 years? some people say yes. i've found it more fulfilling to 'live within my means' and a couple of years ago when i decided to become an Expat and leave the USA for good, i realized that instead of working all the time and getting a remote job, i can just reduce my expenses to near-zero. in this, i found some interesting concepts.

cellphone bill of 120 bucks for unlimited data and 40 bucks more for a financed new phone? transition to T-Mobile for $45/month with international texting/data, and then once i have residency in Argentina drop the US phone number completely and my phone expenses will be something like 5,000 Pesos or less than $5 USD

paying 1,400 bucks per month for a small place to live in the USA? nah, now i can split $600 total with my girlfriend for a bigger apartment in lovely Mendoza in the trendiest area, with no street dogs and super safe all night/day. i can now live for all my expenses here in Argentina, for 2 people and 1 dog, food and gym and everything, for less than the cost of the last rent i paid in the USA.

just a couple examples of what i find more freeing - spend less, need more, and now i don't have to work as much, and i can pursue more meaningful things. a contrary opinion is Robert Kiyosaki here: https://www.richdad.com/live-below-your-means

There's a saying "not wanting something is as good as having it" but should more aptly be "not wanting something is better than having it" No stress of maintaining it, nor worries of losing it, whatever it is.

i worked with guys who would make good hourly but spend half of it on the weekends, paying $100 USD a night for crappy drinks and bar food. it never made sense. and when i was making a ton of money overseas some of my co-workers would finance huge houses and cars (that they got to use 2 months a year) and then they got stuck working constantly to pay their bills, while i went around Europe with a backpack and a 6-year-old phone. i found it much more fulfilling to spend my savings on plane tickets and travel experiences, instead of "new stuff" that lost its glitter after a couple months.

Made me think of this skit. People confusing debt with wealth and no time to enjoy it.

 

[Blockchain]

There's a saying "not wanting something is as good as having it" but should more aptly be "not wanting something is better than having it" No stress of maintaining it, nor worries of losing it, whatever it is.

Made me think of this skit. People confusing debt with wealth and no time to enjoy it.

Very true. Everyone in Latin America thinks it is so easy in the USA and that everyone is making tons of $$$$. Many of my friends are driving around in luxury cars, living in nice places but when you do a deeper dive, they have $2,000 monthly car payments over 7 years, they are renting and don't own, they have college loans and tons of credit card debt.

I am trying to get more into the mindset of not having the latest and greatest. But I have to admit I get the new iPhone every time one comes out. You make a great point @FuturoBA about people confusing debt with wealth.

 

[Uncle Wong]

Very true. Everyone in Latin America thinks it is so easy in the USA and that everyone is making tons of $$$$. Many of my friends are driving around in luxury cars, living in nice places but when you do a deeper dive, they have $2,000 monthly car payments over 7 years, they are renting and don't own, they have college loans and tons of credit card debt.

I am trying to get more into the mindset of not having the latest and greatest. But I have to admit I get the new iPhone every time one comes out. You make a great point @FuturoBA about people confusing debt with wealth.

My friends that live in Miami are exactly like this! They are all driving cars they can't afford and renting apartments that are nice but have 2 or 3 roommates. Nothing wrong with roommates but they are more concerned about what building they live in.

@StatusNomadicus said it best about being a slave to all these luxuries. It's sad and a little scary.

 

[earlyretirement]

There are lots of good thoughts here. I agree that most people in Latin America think that life is super easy in the United States and think everyone is "rich" and makes tons of money. But they don't realize that most major cities here in the US are expensive. You might make more but you will also spend more. I have lots of friends and even family members that moved from South America to the US and most of them have 2 jobs just to get by. Several of them work 6 or even 7 days a week just to afford the life they live. At least they are saving some money which they weren't able to really do in South America but I would argue their quality of life was probably better.

People can agree to disagree on which country is the best to live in. The USA has a lot of positives and is a great place to live. It's just getting very expensive. The inflation in the USA on many things are much higher than the government tries to portray. People have mentioned some of them on various threads and they are spot on target.

Argentina has gotten more expensive and most likely will continue to get more expensive. Things move in cycles there and there is constant ups and downs. I do agree that subsidies need to ease off and end but I do think the government needs to be careful as well not letting them rise too quickly.

If Argentina gets what tourists deem to be too expensive, there will be less tourism. I already have seen it this winter. In speaking to several friends that manage many properties, all have said this was the worst winter with # of tourists than they have seen in a while. It will be interesting to see what tourism does if things get more expensive.

I believe that Argentina is a great place to live and still a fraction of the cost of major cities around the USA. I believe it's a great place to retire vs. living in the USA. Still a lot of things to fix there but it's good to see many things improving.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Friends with Airbnbs have mentioned that it has been a very slow last few months. She mentioned that to me but reading your post @earlyretirement it sounds like it is across the board. Another friend that owns a restaurant told me it is very slow. Hopefully it will be busy during high season. October usually is busy.

 

[Larry]

i call bullshit, but i'm sure there is a tiny % of people who are suffering.

Are you nuts? Poverty rates are at a 20 year high. Which Argentina are you living in?

https://www.reuters.com/markets/argentinas-august-inflation-still-stubborn-residents-struggle-save-2024-09-11/

 

[StatusNomadicus]

I did visit some places that were affordable but plenty of places where food was not cheap.

it's not that different from anywhere else in the world. i've been to 50 countries and there are always discount restaurants/stores, and touristy places where you can spend a ton of Dollars. i documented many affordable meals in CABA the 3 months i was there, in Villa Crespo, Monserrat, Palermo Chico, and Belgrano...of course if you want to live cheap, you buy beef and cook/grill at home. eating out is always more expensive, and eating out in Palermo SoHo is of course the craziest

Food selection at the supermarket was pathetic. Prices for things like toilet paper was insane.

it's much better now! when were you in Argentina, early 2024? i just got a 4-pack of economy toilet paper for 900 Pesos each (20 cents USD per roll). there are expensive brands that you can pay $5 USD for a pack, especially if you shop at the closest store to an upscale building/area. i've been enjoying home delivery once a week from Jumbo/etc. for getting screaming deals on certain days!

From what I understand prices are much higher in BA vs. other cities in Argentina. I want to travel around and see how prices stack up

yeah, but mostly just because the majority of first-time tourists are told (me included) to stay in Palermo, so prices are ALWAYS higher. but once you have a month under your belt, it's easy to walk around and notice that prices are much cheaper away from the rich folk. the same thing happens in the USA, where grocery stores like Whole Foods charge 4x for the same product in a normal neighborhood's shopping center (Kroger, etc.) - i used to watch my roommate buy $6 gallons of Organic milk from Sprout's/WholeFoods while i went a mile away and bought a gallon of regular Kroger whole milk for $1.99 USD. it's just a matter of applying that same scrutiny when you're traveling or living as an Expat most people buy things at the closest Kiosk and pay $2 USD for a can of beer that you can get on sale for 500 Pesos (40 cents USD) a block away.

agreed, Argentina is super safe, and Mendoza is EXTREMELY safe and clean on the main trendy street Aristides. i saw a few shady druggies in CABA, but never in Mendoza. Cordoba has a downtown with some beggars that i didn't like, but overall it felt a little safer than BsAs. we have to remember that most of the Peronists are in BsAs, and it's like judging the USA on New York City problems.

confusing debt with wealth

i heard a good way to describe wealth: if your money flow stopped today, how long would you be able to sustain your lifestyle? days, weeks, months? i could live in Argentina for 2 years with the 40k i brought for my Rentier residency, easily. probably more once i have a DNI and am more settled in Mendoza. infinitely, once i buy a house/apartment with crypto (renting a couple rooms out would pay all my bills, most likely, and i'd never have to work a 'real' job again).

across the board

i suspect the amount of supply is affecting the perception of less rentals - remember we just this year had the Rental Law restrictions repealed, so apartments sitting empty probably have been returned to Airbnb, so overall landlords have to compete more, and travelers have more options and better prices:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745942315238134082

I disagree with you. So you say it bullshit with all the numbers that talk about poverty levels in Argentina?? No one is saying this suffering is new with only this President. Poverty has been a problem in Argentina for many years

have you checked with the commies, like Larry and the usual suspects? (i haven't seen Avocado or CheVos in a while, but they usually float over every now and then to spew their tribal propaganda) - actually, the Noquis and others explicitly say that it is evil Milei that caused everything. maybe check with your local peronistas and get back to me? and they always cite something as record-high to 'prove' it

Poverty rates are at a 20 year high

oh yeah, @Vero here ya go! you guys can chat about it if you want. dumb-dumb-Larry is clearly saying that poverty levels are all-time-high right now, and wanna take a bet what his beliefs are regarding why?

just like in the USA, if you seek-out one side's propaganda newspapers, you can find a 'journalist' saying what you want to hear. in the case of the FearPorn here:

"Argentina’s poverty rate almost 52%, university study finds"

Argentina’s poverty rate almost 52%, university study finds - Buenos Aires Herald

The report states that approximately 14.2 million urban residents are below the poverty line

buenosairesherald.com

yeah? which university? who paid for the study? what are their political motivations? has it been peer-reviewed? are there economists at that same university who would disagree? did anyone ask them? did other universities agree and come to the same independent numbers? how does the 52% compare to Dec2023? is this based on official dollar rate versus Blue, or using the now-higher Official rate after it was hiked-up this year? 14.2 million people are under the poverty line, really? (Apr2024 claim).

from that article, "Yearly inflation in Argentina is now running at 287.9%, according to figures released on Friday. The number, 9.7 points higher than February’s, indicates that Argentina’s runaway price hikes remain the worst in the world. Monthly inflation cooled to 11% in March, a two-point drop from February, according to the report. The number marks the third monthly decrease in a row after it hit 25.5% in December, the highest since February 1991. Cumulative inflation for the first three months of the year reached 51.6%."

...i watched prices change weekly in CABA Nov-Dec2023. i have seen price increases in the latter half of this year MUCH LESS frequently. again: if Tuna was 5000 Pesos a can when i got here, and now it's 1600 Pesos, how come that wasn't in the "study"? how come Bife Ancho and similar steaks were 6000-9000 Pesos per kilo earlier this year, and they are still that price today in Sep2024? this is one of those cases where real life just doesn't match the claims of "Experts"

obviously BuenosAiresHerald is a left-wing paper. have they ever published anything hopefuly or positive about this year's reforms and deregulations?

next FearPorn example:
"Poverty climbed to 55.5% in first quarter, according to UCA"

Poverty climbed to 55.5% in first quarter, according to UCA

Data obtained in new study highlights chilling growth in poverty levels – nearly 25 million people in urban areas nationwide are now considered to be poor.

www.batimes.com.ar

"The latest report from the influential Observatorio de la Deuda Social of the Universidad Católica Argentina (Social Debt Observatory of the Catholic University of Argentina, ODSA-UCA) put poverty at 55.5 percent for the first quarter of this year – up from 44.7 in the third quarter of 2023 and 49.5 percent in December, when President Javier Milei was sworn into office."

...ah yes, the unbiased Vatican-funded school and its 'Science' for this one. so, the same Pope who lambasts free markets and nationalism, and wants western countries to be overrun with third-world Islamist illegal immigrants, is totally unbiased when doing a 'study' on Argentine poverty? lolz.

"poverty affects some 25 million people nationwide" - really, 25 million in Argentina? and "An adult making less than US$132 is considered to live in extreme poverty, or destitution." - ummmm, first of all, what are their bills? if they live without rent in a shared house that their family owns, and don't make car payments, and phone/internet is dirt cheap, and rice/flour/sweet potatoes/basic goods are extremely cheap in Argentina, what exactly is "poverty" about that? and how would this Catholic university even track income to 132 dollars??

"an economy with almost 50 percent informal employment." - ah, there's the bullshit! 50%? you guys think it's 50% in the country? everyone trying to sell me a house is saying to record 20-40% of the value on the deed. anyone else think the negra work percentage is more like 70-80%? because overwhelmingly that's what i'm told now for 9 months - at least 70% of gigs/sales/etc. is under the table. in cash. untraceable, mostly. so Catholic university nonsense studies have even admitted they're at least half full of sh*t : )

let's be real, there are a crapload of lazy people who are contributing nothing to society, sitting on their butts all day, and many are mad because they used to get paid to be helpless, and now they need to find a way to work and make money and provide services/goods to society. life's hard - Argentina ABSOLUTELY doesn't have higher poverty than Nigeria, for example. you can make all the fake studies you want, but it doesn't mean anything. remember when 'scholars' made-up 'studies' to 'prove' all sorts of Woke stuff, and it got peer-reviewed and published? i do! Leftist universities and left-wing newspapers aren't reliable sources for this type of politically-charged data, sorry.

last FearPorn i'll try to debunk (i am not an expert, but neither are any of these clowns who probably voted for vaccine passports/mandates/lockdowns, and thus have zero credibility)

"Argentina's August inflation still stubborn as residents struggle to save" 11Sep2024

https://www.reuters.com/markets/argentinas-august-inflation-still-stubborn-residents-struggle-save-2024-09-11/

"Argentina's monthly inflation rate stood at 4.2% in August, official data published on Wednesday showed, rising from last month and surpassing analysts' forecasts, while Argentines tighten their wallets to deal with spiraling costs." - man, you'd really think the country was imploding, reading that. yet, i see Argies traveling every damn weekend to different areas on family vacations. of course there are poor people around the world. this article, and other similar ones, are saying that this is a new phenomenon yet we know that all of 2023 was a death-spiral for the Peso and the economy here. also, how many of these scammy articles are using the trickery of the Official/Blue Dollar difference that happened this year?

in the real world, prices have been stable for the first time since i got here. anyone who wants specifics can message me and i'll happily walk around and document prices for ya. some better links than commie propaganda AKA fake news:

1. January starting inflation

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750169468691419344

2. Pesos are not used as much as the commies imply. Dollars are stored and used more than anyone knows

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813417318258450793

3. prices at stores are SO MUCH BETTER than the chaos i walked into in November 2023. i literally came to Argentina to track this, from election victory, to Inauguration, to law reform, to Milei's visit to Cordoba in May2024, to now as we descend into the global recession that the US Empire created (and nearing WW3 with nukes). if anyone wants to show me prices in early 2024 compared to late 2024, i'm happy to see evidence otherwise. here's data point 99,999 that i've shown here, yet i've received no evidence to back the claims that Argentina is somehow unique in 2024 with Milei, versus in 2022-2023 with the Ks were sucking the country dry

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821549313719148886

@Vero Not everyone is a Noqui. Many people are struggling here in Argentina. Surprising that you think everyone here are noquis and poverty rate is not alarmingly high.

sure. the loud minority are, though. and all they care about is screaming about how Milei is evil...because their remote-work paychecks turned off. sucks to meet reality, but it was inevitable. "Many people are struggling in _________" - this is true about any city in every part of the world. so what? how many of them are druggies? how many are lazy and prefer to be transients? these appeals to emotion don't work on me, and they're not good for any country to entertain. 95% of people who want free sh*t are physically able to get a job instead of walking around selling trash bags or socks. sorry, tough love is necessary sometimes. otherwise people end up having Learned Helplessness and dependency on the government

 

[Vince]

it's not that different from anywhere else in the world. i've been to 50 countries and there are always discount restaurants/stores, and touristy places where you can spend a ton of Dollars. i documented many affordable meals in CABA the 3 months i was there, in Villa Crespo, Monserrat, Palermo Chico, and Belgrano...of course if you want to live cheap, you buy beef and cook/grill at home. eating out is always more expensive, and eating out in Palermo SoHo is of course the craziest


it's much better now! when were you in Argentina, early 2024? i just got a 4-pack of economy toilet paper for 900 Pesos each (20 cents USD per roll). there are expensive brands that you can pay $5 USD for a pack, especially if you shop at the closest store to an upscale building/area. i've been enjoying home delivery once a week from Jumbo/etc. for getting screaming deals on certain days!


yeah, but mostly just because the majority of first-time tourists are told (me included) to stay in Palermo, so prices are ALWAYS higher. but once you have a month under your belt, it's easy to walk around and notice that prices are much cheaper away from the rich folk. the same thing happens in the USA, where grocery stores like Whole Foods charge 4x for the same product in a normal neighborhood's shopping center (Kroger, etc.) - i used to watch my roommate buy $6 gallons of Organic milk from Sprout's/WholeFoods while i went a mile away and bought a gallon of regular Kroger whole milk for $1.99 USD. it's just a matter of applying that same scrutiny when you're traveling or living as an Expat most people buy things at the closest Kiosk and pay $2 USD for a can of beer that you can get on sale for 500 Pesos (40 cents USD) a block away.

agreed, Argentina is super safe, and Mendoza is EXTREMELY safe and clean on the main trendy street Aristides. i saw a few shady druggies in CABA, but never in Mendoza. Cordoba has a downtown with some beggars that i didn't like, but overall it felt a little safer than BsAs. we have to remember that most of the Peronists are in BsAs, and it's like judging the USA on New York City problems.


i heard a good way to describe wealth: if your money flow stopped today, how long would you be able to sustain your lifestyle? days, weeks, months? i could live in Argentina for 2 years with the 40k i brought for my Rentier residency, easily. probably more once i have a DNI and am more settled in Mendoza. infinitely, once i buy a house/apartment with crypto (renting a couple rooms out would pay all my bills, most likely, and i'd never have to work a 'real' job again).


i suspect the amount of supply is affecting the perception of less rentals - remember we just this year had the Rental Law restrictions repealed, so apartments sitting empty probably have been returned to Airbnb, so overall landlords have to compete more, and travelers have more options and better prices:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745942315238134082

have you checked with the commies, like Larry and the usual suspects? (i haven't seen Avocado or CheVos in a while, but they usually float over every now and then to spew their tribal propaganda) - actually, the Noquis and others explicitly say that it is evil Milei that caused everything. maybe check with your local peronistas and get back to me? and they always cite something as record-high to 'prove' it


oh yeah, @Vero here ya go! you guys can chat about it if you want. dumb-dumb-Larry is clearly saying that poverty levels are all-time-high right now, and wanna take a bet what his beliefs are regarding why?

just like in the USA, if you seek-out one side's propaganda newspapers, you can find a 'journalist' saying what you want to hear. in the case of the FearPorn here:

"Argentina’s poverty rate almost 52%, university study finds"

Argentina’s poverty rate almost 52%, university study finds - Buenos Aires Herald

The report states that approximately 14.2 million urban residents are below the poverty line

buenosairesherald.com

yeah? which university? who paid for the study? what are their political motivations? has it been peer-reviewed? are there economists at that same university who would disagree? did anyone ask them? did other universities agree and come to the same independent numbers? how does the 52% compare to Dec2023? is this based on official dollar rate versus Blue, or using the now-higher Official rate after it was hiked-up this year? 14.2 million people are under the poverty line, really? (Apr2024 claim).

from that article, "Yearly inflation in Argentina is now running at 287.9%, according to figures released on Friday. The number, 9.7 points higher than February’s, indicates that Argentina’s runaway price hikes remain the worst in the world. Monthly inflation cooled to 11% in March, a two-point drop from February, according to the report. The number marks the third monthly decrease in a row after it hit 25.5% in December, the highest since February 1991. Cumulative inflation for the first three months of the year reached 51.6%."

...i watched prices change weekly in CABA Nov-Dec2023. i have seen price increases in the latter half of this year MUCH LESS frequently. again: if Tuna was 5000 Pesos a can when i got here, and now it's 1600 Pesos, how come that wasn't in the "study"? how come Bife Ancho and similar steaks were 6000-9000 Pesos per kilo earlier this year, and they are still that price today in Sep2024? this is one of those cases where real life just doesn't match the claims of "Experts"

obviously BuenosAiresHerald is a left-wing paper. have they ever published anything hopefuly or positive about this year's reforms and deregulations?

next FearPorn example:
"Poverty climbed to 55.5% in first quarter, according to UCA"

Poverty climbed to 55.5% in first quarter, according to UCA

Data obtained in new study highlights chilling growth in poverty levels – nearly 25 million people in urban areas nationwide are now considered to be poor.

www.batimes.com.ar

"The latest report from the influential Observatorio de la Deuda Social of the Universidad Católica Argentina (Social Debt Observatory of the Catholic University of Argentina, ODSA-UCA) put poverty at 55.5 percent for the first quarter of this year – up from 44.7 in the third quarter of 2023 and 49.5 percent in December, when President Javier Milei was sworn into office."

...ah yes, the unbiased Vatican-funded school and its 'Science' for this one. so, the same Pope who lambasts free markets and nationalism, and wants western countries to be overrun with third-world Islamist illegal immigrants, is totally unbiased when doing a 'study' on Argentine poverty? lolz.

"poverty affects some 25 million people nationwide" - really, 25 million in Argentina? and "An adult making less than US$132 is considered to live in extreme poverty, or destitution." - ummmm, first of all, what are their bills? if they live without rent in a shared house that their family owns, and don't make car payments, and phone/internet is dirt cheap, and rice/flour/sweet potatoes/basic goods are extremely cheap in Argentina, what exactly is "poverty" about that? and how would this Catholic university even track income to 132 dollars??

"an economy with almost 50 percent informal employment." - ah, there's the bullshit! 50%? you guys think it's 50% in the country? everyone trying to sell me a house is saying to record 20-40% of the value on the deed. anyone else think the negra work percentage is more like 70-80%? because overwhelmingly that's what i'm told now for 9 months - at least 70% of gigs/sales/etc. is under the table. in cash. untraceable, mostly. so Catholic university nonsense studies have even admitted they're at least half full of sh*t : )

let's be real, there are a crapload of lazy people who are contributing nothing to society, sitting on their butts all day, and many are mad because they used to get paid to be helpless, and now they need to find a way to work and make money and provide services/goods to society. life's hard - Argentina ABSOLUTELY doesn't have higher poverty than Nigeria, for example. you can make all the fake studies you want, but it doesn't mean anything. remember when 'scholars' made-up 'studies' to 'prove' all sorts of Woke stuff, and it got peer-reviewed and published? i do! Leftist universities and left-wing newspapers aren't reliable sources for this type of politically-charged data, sorry.

last FearPorn i'll try to debunk (i am not an expert, but neither are any of these clowns who probably voted for vaccine passports/mandates/lockdowns, and thus have zero credibility)

"Argentina's August inflation still stubborn as residents struggle to save" 11Sep2024

https://www.reuters.com/markets/argentinas-august-inflation-still-stubborn-residents-struggle-save-2024-09-11/

"Argentina's monthly inflation rate stood at 4.2% in August, official data published on Wednesday showed, rising from last month and surpassing analysts' forecasts, while Argentines tighten their wallets to deal with spiraling costs." - man, you'd really think the country was imploding, reading that. yet, i see Argies traveling every damn weekend to different areas on family vacations. of course there are poor people around the world. this article, and other similar ones, are saying that this is a new phenomenon yet we know that all of 2023 was a death-spiral for the Peso and the economy here. also, how many of these scammy articles are using the trickery of the Official/Blue Dollar difference that happened this year?

in the real world, prices have been stable for the first time since i got here. anyone who wants specifics can message me and i'll happily walk around and document prices for ya. some better links than commie propaganda AKA fake news:

1. January starting inflation

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750169468691419344

2. Pesos are not used as much as the commies imply. Dollars are stored and used more than anyone knows

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813417318258450793

3. prices at stores are SO MUCH BETTER than the chaos i walked into in November 2023. i literally came to Argentina to track this, from election victory, to Inauguration, to law reform, to Milei's visit to Cordoba in May2024, to now as we descend into the global recession that the US Empire created (and nearing WW3 with nukes). if anyone wants to show me prices in early 2024 compared to late 2024, i'm happy to see evidence otherwise. here's data point 99,999 that i've shown here, yet i've received no evidence to back the claims that Argentina is somehow unique in 2024 with Milei, versus in 2022-2023 with the Ks were sucking the country dry

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821549313719148886

sure. the loud minority are, though. and all they care about is screaming about how Milei is evil...because their remote-work paychecks turned off. sucks to meet reality, but it was inevitable. "Many people are struggling in _________" - this is true about any city in every part of the world. so what? how many of them are druggies? how many are lazy and prefer to be transients? these appeals to emotion don't work on me, and they're not good for any country to entertain. 95% of people who want free sh*t are physically able to get a job instead of walking around selling trash bags or socks. sorry, tough love is necessary sometimes. otherwise people end up having Learned Helplessness and dependency on the government

It's true that so much of the economy is in black. It is very difficult to put much faith on any official statistics here in Argentina because of the black/grey economy. I always take any articles with a grain of salt because of this black under the table economy.

@StatusNomadicus be careful declaring too low of a fake amount on the title deed if you buy. Back when I bought there was no capital gains tax but now there is a capital gains tax I believe. It would be horrible to have on paper an even bigger capital gain vs. reality. When I bought my apartment the owner also wouldn't sell unless we used a fake artificial price. I preferred to using the real price but he wouldn't sell unless I did it. That is still very common in Argentina.

This sort of thing is embedded in society here. And maybe when you go to sell your house, you might ask to declare a lower price too. That is common here which I agree shouldn't be common here but not sure that will ever change.

 

[Rick]

it's not that different from anywhere else in the world. i've been to 50 countries and there are always discount restaurants/stores, and touristy places where you can spend a ton of Dollars. i documented many affordable meals in CABA the 3 months i was there, in Villa Crespo, Monserrat, Palermo Chico, and Belgrano...of course if you want to live cheap, you buy beef and cook/grill at home. eating out is always more expensive, and eating out in Palermo SoHo is of course the craziest


it's much better now! when were you in Argentina, early 2024? i just got a 4-pack of economy toilet paper for 900 Pesos each (20 cents USD per roll). there are expensive brands that you can pay $5 USD for a pack, especially if you shop at the closest store to an upscale building/area. i've been enjoying home delivery once a week from Jumbo/etc. for getting screaming deals on certain days!


yeah, but mostly just because the majority of first-time tourists are told (me included) to stay in Palermo, so prices are ALWAYS higher. but once you have a month under your belt, it's easy to walk around and notice that prices are much cheaper away from the rich folk. the same thing happens in the USA, where grocery stores like Whole Foods charge 4x for the same product in a normal neighborhood's shopping center (Kroger, etc.) - i used to watch my roommate buy $6 gallons of Organic milk from Sprout's/WholeFoods while i went a mile away and bought a gallon of regular Kroger whole milk for $1.99 USD. it's just a matter of applying that same scrutiny when you're traveling or living as an Expat most people buy things at the closest Kiosk and pay $2 USD for a can of beer that you can get on sale for 500 Pesos (40 cents USD) a block away.

agreed, Argentina is super safe, and Mendoza is EXTREMELY safe and clean on the main trendy street Aristides. i saw a few shady druggies in CABA, but never in Mendoza. Cordoba has a downtown with some beggars that i didn't like, but overall it felt a little safer than BsAs. we have to remember that most of the Peronists are in BsAs, and it's like judging the USA on New York City problems.


i heard a good way to describe wealth: if your money flow stopped today, how long would you be able to sustain your lifestyle? days, weeks, months? i could live in Argentina for 2 years with the 40k i brought for my Rentier residency, easily. probably more once i have a DNI and am more settled in Mendoza. infinitely, once i buy a house/apartment with crypto (renting a couple rooms out would pay all my bills, most likely, and i'd never have to work a 'real' job again).


i suspect the amount of supply is affecting the perception of less rentals - remember we just this year had the Rental Law restrictions repealed, so apartments sitting empty probably have been returned to Airbnb, so overall landlords have to compete more, and travelers have more options and better prices:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1745942315238134082

have you checked with the commies, like Larry and the usual suspects? (i haven't seen Avocado or CheVos in a while, but they usually float over every now and then to spew their tribal propaganda) - actually, the Noquis and others explicitly say that it is evil Milei that caused everything. maybe check with your local peronistas and get back to me? and they always cite something as record-high to 'prove' it


oh yeah, @Vero here ya go! you guys can chat about it if you want. dumb-dumb-Larry is clearly saying that poverty levels are all-time-high right now, and wanna take a bet what his beliefs are regarding why?

just like in the USA, if you seek-out one side's propaganda newspapers, you can find a 'journalist' saying what you want to hear. in the case of the FearPorn here:

"Argentina’s poverty rate almost 52%, university study finds"

Argentina’s poverty rate almost 52%, university study finds - Buenos Aires Herald

The report states that approximately 14.2 million urban residents are below the poverty line

buenosairesherald.com

yeah? which university? who paid for the study? what are their political motivations? has it been peer-reviewed? are there economists at that same university who would disagree? did anyone ask them? did other universities agree and come to the same independent numbers? how does the 52% compare to Dec2023? is this based on official dollar rate versus Blue, or using the now-higher Official rate after it was hiked-up this year? 14.2 million people are under the poverty line, really? (Apr2024 claim).

from that article, "Yearly inflation in Argentina is now running at 287.9%, according to figures released on Friday. The number, 9.7 points higher than February’s, indicates that Argentina’s runaway price hikes remain the worst in the world. Monthly inflation cooled to 11% in March, a two-point drop from February, according to the report. The number marks the third monthly decrease in a row after it hit 25.5% in December, the highest since February 1991. Cumulative inflation for the first three months of the year reached 51.6%."

...i watched prices change weekly in CABA Nov-Dec2023. i have seen price increases in the latter half of this year MUCH LESS frequently. again: if Tuna was 5000 Pesos a can when i got here, and now it's 1600 Pesos, how come that wasn't in the "study"? how come Bife Ancho and similar steaks were 6000-9000 Pesos per kilo earlier this year, and they are still that price today in Sep2024? this is one of those cases where real life just doesn't match the claims of "Experts"

obviously BuenosAiresHerald is a left-wing paper. have they ever published anything hopefuly or positive about this year's reforms and deregulations?

next FearPorn example:
"Poverty climbed to 55.5% in first quarter, according to UCA"

Poverty climbed to 55.5% in first quarter, according to UCA

Data obtained in new study highlights chilling growth in poverty levels – nearly 25 million people in urban areas nationwide are now considered to be poor.

www.batimes.com.ar

"The latest report from the influential Observatorio de la Deuda Social of the Universidad Católica Argentina (Social Debt Observatory of the Catholic University of Argentina, ODSA-UCA) put poverty at 55.5 percent for the first quarter of this year – up from 44.7 in the third quarter of 2023 and 49.5 percent in December, when President Javier Milei was sworn into office."

...ah yes, the unbiased Vatican-funded school and its 'Science' for this one. so, the same Pope who lambasts free markets and nationalism, and wants western countries to be overrun with third-world Islamist illegal immigrants, is totally unbiased when doing a 'study' on Argentine poverty? lolz.

"poverty affects some 25 million people nationwide" - really, 25 million in Argentina? and "An adult making less than US$132 is considered to live in extreme poverty, or destitution." - ummmm, first of all, what are their bills? if they live without rent in a shared house that their family owns, and don't make car payments, and phone/internet is dirt cheap, and rice/flour/sweet potatoes/basic goods are extremely cheap in Argentina, what exactly is "poverty" about that? and how would this Catholic university even track income to 132 dollars??

"an economy with almost 50 percent informal employment." - ah, there's the bullshit! 50%? you guys think it's 50% in the country? everyone trying to sell me a house is saying to record 20-40% of the value on the deed. anyone else think the negra work percentage is more like 70-80%? because overwhelmingly that's what i'm told now for 9 months - at least 70% of gigs/sales/etc. is under the table. in cash. untraceable, mostly. so Catholic university nonsense studies have even admitted they're at least half full of sh*t : )

let's be real, there are a crapload of lazy people who are contributing nothing to society, sitting on their butts all day, and many are mad because they used to get paid to be helpless, and now they need to find a way to work and make money and provide services/goods to society. life's hard - Argentina ABSOLUTELY doesn't have higher poverty than Nigeria, for example. you can make all the fake studies you want, but it doesn't mean anything. remember when 'scholars' made-up 'studies' to 'prove' all sorts of Woke stuff, and it got peer-reviewed and published? i do! Leftist universities and left-wing newspapers aren't reliable sources for this type of politically-charged data, sorry.

last FearPorn i'll try to debunk (i am not an expert, but neither are any of these clowns who probably voted for vaccine passports/mandates/lockdowns, and thus have zero credibility)

"Argentina's August inflation still stubborn as residents struggle to save" 11Sep2024

https://www.reuters.com/markets/argentinas-august-inflation-still-stubborn-residents-struggle-save-2024-09-11/

"Argentina's monthly inflation rate stood at 4.2% in August, official data published on Wednesday showed, rising from last month and surpassing analysts' forecasts, while Argentines tighten their wallets to deal with spiraling costs." - man, you'd really think the country was imploding, reading that. yet, i see Argies traveling every damn weekend to different areas on family vacations. of course there are poor people around the world. this article, and other similar ones, are saying that this is a new phenomenon yet we know that all of 2023 was a death-spiral for the Peso and the economy here. also, how many of these scammy articles are using the trickery of the Official/Blue Dollar difference that happened this year?

in the real world, prices have been stable for the first time since i got here. anyone who wants specifics can message me and i'll happily walk around and document prices for ya. some better links than commie propaganda AKA fake news:

1. January starting inflation

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750169468691419344

2. Pesos are not used as much as the commies imply. Dollars are stored and used more than anyone knows

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813417318258450793

3. prices at stores are SO MUCH BETTER than the chaos i walked into in November 2023. i literally came to Argentina to track this, from election victory, to Inauguration, to law reform, to Milei's visit to Cordoba in May2024, to now as we descend into the global recession that the US Empire created (and nearing WW3 with nukes). if anyone wants to show me prices in early 2024 compared to late 2024, i'm happy to see evidence otherwise. here's data point 99,999 that i've shown here, yet i've received no evidence to back the claims that Argentina is somehow unique in 2024 with Milei, versus in 2022-2023 with the Ks were sucking the country dry

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821549313719148886

sure. the loud minority are, though. and all they care about is screaming about how Milei is evil...because their remote-work paychecks turned off. sucks to meet reality, but it was inevitable. "Many people are struggling in _________" - this is true about any city in every part of the world. so what? how many of them are druggies? how many are lazy and prefer to be transients? these appeals to emotion don't work on me, and they're not good for any country to entertain. 95% of people who want free sh*t are physically able to get a job instead of walking around selling trash bags or socks. sorry, tough love is necessary sometimes. otherwise people end up having Learned Helplessness and dependency on the government

You make some good points. Eating at home isn't as home as eating out but much easier on the wallet! True you can get affordable meals but plenty of places in BA where prices are out of whack. Food here is expensive compared to local wages. Not sure how anyone can argue with that.

I am always amazed at the cost of decent-quality toilet paper. Agree with you @Blockchain the good stuff is quite expensive. I can't use the really low quality TP and always order the good brands and at Jumbo it is expensive but it probably ain't cheap anywhere.

7,550 pesos for 4 rolls of the good stuff. So about $5.90 dollars for 4 rolls. Or sometimes I will go with Higienol Max which is a little cheaper at around 5,245 pesos. I know you can get cheaper brands but the Mrs. won't use the cheaper stuff.

https://www.jumbo.com.ar/papel-higienico-elite-ultra-doble-hoja-soft-t-c-alg-4x50m/p

Agree so much is off the books here but part of the reason is because of the high taxes. 21% tax makes people want to avoid paying that. Things have gotten much better with the government forcing places to accept debit cards.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

Dec2022

Jan2023 Vice

Mar2024

be careful declaring too low of a fake amount on the title deed if you buy. Back when I bought there was no capital gains tax but now there is a capital gains tax I believe. It would be horrible to have on paper an even bigger capital gain vs. reality. When I bought my apartment the owner also wouldn't sell unless we used a fake artificial price. I preferred to using the real price but he wouldn't sell unless I did it. That is still very common in Argentina.

great advice - earlyretirement said he does everything blanqueado and i suspect i will do the same. i'm guessing the seller would want ME to front the difference. i love how in Argentina there are millions of laws, yet the Notaries/escribanos are totally in-on the fraud of declaring a 20-40% value. when i tell people that this would put you in prison in the US, legitimately, they just shrug and say 'even the cops and notaries are doing it on their houses' - lol. but yes, i don't want to be the first person imprisoned for Deed Fraud. nope!

@BowTiedMara talks about this on his Substack: "Local property deeds can be a bit creative sometimes, in the sense that for older properties you’ll sometimes see deeds that do not include all sq. footage of the property (because more was added after purchasing and the owners never took the effort of getting a permit). This is not an issue as long as you can agree to an additional 'off the books' price with the seller, which you pay outside of the contract/deed. Keep in mind though that this is not registered anywhere, so once you want to sell the property you will have to take that same route as the seller." https://www.bowtiedmara.io/p/buying-property-in-argentina-part

True you can get affordable meals but plenty of places in BA where prices are out of whack.

nope, disagree on the premise: you are choosing to eat at expensive places. go to a local place like La Dignidad in Villa Crespo and get a Menu Ejecutivo for way cheap, tons of food, support a local family. "but plenty of places in _______ where prices are out of whack" could apply to literally anywhere in the world. have you been to the EU or USA recently, like in the past 2 years??

Food here is expensive compared to local wages. Not sure how anyone can argue with that.

you're not listening; i'm saying that food at touristy places is expensive, like anywhere in the world. but Locals overwhelmingly are NOT using Pesos long-term, so the wage-to-Peso-price-of-food is irrelevant for all but the extreme-poor or the financially stupid. not all food is expensive, even in Pesos. i've given a hundred examples. go buy rice, flour, pepper, salt, beans, meat, etc. in bulk once a week and cook food. if you have disposable money to spend on restaurants, then none of the Peso fears apply to you also, i literally just said that the posted wages and poverty levels are bullshit and only tracking like 20% of reality, so no, people are not dying of hunger on the street. if you watch the pot-bangers at the 'protests' there is a HUGE amount of fatties there, holding signs that they are hungry. lol lol lol. (attached from AlJazeera fake news - the only 'food emergency' there is that those people need an Emergency Diet with less soda and more exercise).

BowTiedMara made fun of the soup-kitchen-money-laundering-mafia here:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795454382160380284

Argentine prices for basic kitchen goods are SO cheap. just go on any Mayorista website or any chain grocery, use your DNI benefits to get 15-35% off the total (MODO BNA+, etc.) and you can buy flour and beans and other staples for dirt cheap in Pesos. i shouldn't need to give a guide on thrifty grocery-shopping; Locals know how to get good deals, and the ones going to restaurants are absolutely full of sh*t if they say they are struggling, but can eat out often. this is highly contrasted from the USA, where the crap food like McDonald's is the cheapest to get full, and eating healthy veggies and meat costs a fortune at the grocery store. again: most Argies have no clue how different the USA is these days.

$5.90 dollars for 4 rolls.

a choice. i just bought the cheapo 900-Peso pack of four rolls, and it's fine for my butthole. yes of course it is bad compared to the USA, but i'm here living out of my comfort zone and wanting to live thrifty, so sometimes i have to use bad toilet paper. if your Missus insists, she can get her ass to the store and pay with her extra money - these are all choices, and overall just proves my point. people who are actually hurting aren't choosing to buy luxury toilet paper. and you can get it much cheaper at the Mayorista stores - the kiosks and nearby chains for sure will charge you more for the convenience and luxury.

the government forcing places to accept debit cards.

the national government has NO place in mandating which payments businesses and people must accept. this is bullshit, and is a bandaid on an arterial bleed (the other mandates caused the problem, to start with). i would never open a business somewhere that forces me to accept a certain type of payment, or serve every customer. property rights should go both ways. if a business wants to only accept Cash, it can take that risk/benefit decision. Argies and Europeans have become to accustomed to being Nanny-State babied that everyone is going to need to re-learn how to be an independent human being - we don't need the State to protect us from ourselves. and even in a Utopia people will choose to commit suicide and live in the streets 'homeless' - the funcional citizens need not subsidize such stupid decisions. sorry! more tough love

 

[Wally]

great advice - earlyretirement said he does everything blanqueado and i suspect i will do the same. i'm guessing the seller would want ME to front the difference. i love how in Argentina there are millions of laws, yet the Notaries/escribanos are totally in-on the fraud of declaring a 20-40% value. when i tell people that this would put you in prison in the US, legitimately, they just shrug and say 'even the cops and notaries are doing it on their houses' - lol. but yes, i don't want to be the first person imprisoned for Deed Fraud. nope!

Even when you want to do everything right many times it is not possible. When I bought my place the owner wouldn't sell unless we declared a lower price. Very very common here. The one that has the biggest risk is the Escribano but my Escribano told me that it is normal here as long as you don't go too low. Maybe it has changed but most ethical lawyers won't want to go less than 70% of the true price.

Nobody here goes to jail for declaring lower prices. Been going on forever. I did end up having to use a lower price. I bought before there was a capital gains tax and I got the benefit of paying lower property taxes because I got to use the price on the title deed.

 

[Vince]

Even when you want to do everything right many times it is not possible. When I bought my place the owner wouldn't sell unless we declared a lower price. Very very common here. The one that has the biggest risk is the Escribano but my Escribano told me that it is normal here as long as you don't go too low. Maybe it has changed but most ethical lawyers won't want to go less than 70% of the true price.

Nobody here goes to jail for declaring lower prices. Been going on forever. I did end up having to use a lower price. I bought before there was a capital gains tax and I got the benefit of paying lower property taxes because I got to use the price on the title deed.

True. I did the same. It used to be more common to declare lower prices many years ago. Now I'm told there are more safeguards but people are still doing it. I don't think you can do that on new construction projects but on used properties, people are still doing it. My sister was looking at properties earlier this year and some owners were still demanding 50% declaring of actual prices. She didn't feel comfortable with declaring so low and possibly going to jail. I told her they don't do that here but her lawyer refused to declare that low as they said now the government is threatening jail time to the Escribanos.

They are trying to clean up the system under President Milei. But I doubt you can get these Argentines from dodging taxes. And when my wife's sister recently sold her apartment, she wanted to use the true price but the buyer demanded to declare a much lower price because they didn't have enough declared income to justify the purchase price. So you see it across the board here.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

most ethical lawyers won't want to go less than 70% of the true price.

noted! the Escribana i'm leaning toward wants to do at least 40%, but "more is better" she says. they are liable for 10 years of risk with signing the Deed. at some point, they won't be able to do illegal deals like this, when titles/deeds are on Blockchains as public records. also, hopefully at that point, we can do away with taxing the sale of properties - all tax is theft, and i get nothing from paying the Province/country over 1% of my house value. it's as unethical as annual property taxes on US properties, which Argentines probably can't fathom (my girlfriend pays 2800 USD per year, or they put a lien on her house).

I don't think you can do that on new construction projects

when i was looking to buy a new apartment in BsAs with Bitcoin in Jan2024, the builder met with me and wrote-out the prices. i still have the paper, not that i think he was unique in the fraud; it's just a crime that everyone does here, like border runs to abuse the Tourist Visa.

it was very much like 50% on the books and the rest in cash or Bitcoin, not reported to the gov't. this would mean i'd have to sell it in the same negra way if i ever needed to sell, which was less appealing.

some owners were still demanding 50% declaring of actual prices. She didn't feel comfortable with declaring so low and possibly going to jail. I told her they don't do that here but her lawyer refused to declare that low as they said now the government is threatening jail time to the Escribanos.

this will for sure fade-away, and i also am not messing around as a foreigner with 'doing it how it's always done' - fuuuuuuuuck no. i like sleeping peacefuly at night without worrying about getting audited/interrogated. especially as we're in a recession combined with austerity measures, it would be simple for Governors to use AI to crawl the web and compare listing prices (100k) to what each escritura says (20k) and just start investigating the highest-gap people who do it more than once. as i said before about Border Runs: i'm not an expert in Argentina, but i've been around and i know how to mitigate risk - eventually the old-timers will have to admit that saying 'it won't change because it had always been this way' was very bad advice for non-Locals with a lot to lose. we should all be responsible and advise people on taking the best decision in their risk category, with all the information.

They are trying to clean up the system under President Milei. But I doubt you can get these Argentines from dodging taxes.

this is one of Milei's flaws; he's too busy worshipping Trump (Uniparty scumbag that spent more than Obama and gave Fauci a medal after wrecking the economy with Lockdowns) instead of pushing for all taxes to be abolished. Argies are smart for dodging taxes, because taxation is theft and cleaning-up the system would be much easier if you just did away with Stamp Taxes and other nonsense that serve no purpose other than to steal money from productive citizens.

Countries With no Property Taxes Where You REALLY Own Your Home

Where can you go in the world and legally pay no property taxes while still owning really top-quality real estate? Here is a list of places to help you save your tax bill.

nomadcapitalist.com

and if property taxes are immoral and fund government programs or wars that you don't agree with, then the Transfer/Stamp Tax is also immoral. Milei's cabinet ought to limit the government's ability to tax, and prosperity will boom. just wait until Amazon.com.ar can deliver stuff without fees to Argentina...can't wait!

have a lovely weekend, all. it's 6-27C (43-81F) all this week in Mendoza, sunny, clean air and great view of the Andes, and it couldn't get better! tons of Brazilian and Chilean tourists all over spending money, lots of people eating and vacationing like they're unworried about WW3 or a Great Depression 2. enjoy!

 

[Johnny]

Even when you want to do everything right many times it is not possible. When I bought my place the owner wouldn't sell unless we declared a lower price. Very very common here. The one that has the biggest risk is the Escribano but my Escribano told me that it is normal here as long as you don't go too low. Maybe it has changed but most ethical lawyers won't want to go less than 70% of the true price.

Nobody here goes to jail for declaring lower prices. Been going on forever. I did end up having to use a lower price. I bought before there was a capital gains tax and I got the benefit of paying lower property taxes because I got to use the price on the title deed.

When I was looking at properties it seems like all the properties that aren't new construction ALL owners wanted to declare lower prices. On the new construction projects that I looked at, they were willing to declare the true price. When I bought my apartment, I used the full price.

When I did a consultation with @BuySellBA they explained it all in detail. They said it used to be much more common for people to do this. It's still done by many but they also said that no ethical Escribano would do it for lower than 70% of the purchase price due to the risk of losing their license. Maybe this is different outside of Buenos Aires but as it was explained to me, when owners list their properties, the listing prices are given to AFIP. If the price on the title deed is much lower than recent closing prices or the last listing price, it will get flagged by AFIP. I don't know if this is the same in Mendoza but probably should see if they have the same thing there @StatusNomadicus.

I saw very little upside to agreeing to declare a lower price. A slightly lower property/asset tax annual bill. Also, the stamp tax is based on the price on the title deed so both sides would save some money there but the Capital gains tax is 15% so if I would have agreed to use a lower price and I can't do that when I sell it, then it will look like I made even more money!

I'm in the financial sector in the USA and work for a bank. We wouldn't dream about messing around with the IRS. As a foreigner even if something is normal there, I didn't want to do that!

Listing only 40% of the sales price? That seems like a recipe for disaster. Even if it's the lawyer that takes most of the risk, who is to say if the lawyer gets you as the buyer involved. I wonder what penalties there are for tax fraud?

 

[Betsy Ross]

this will for sure fade-away, and i also am not messing around as a foreigner with 'doing it how it's always done' - fuuuuuuuuck no. i like sleeping peacefuly at night without worrying about getting audited/interrogated. especially as we're in a recession combined with austerity measures, it would be simple for Governors to use AI to crawl the web and compare listing prices (100k) to what each escritura says (20k) and just start investigating the highest-gap people who do it more than once. as i said before about Border Runs: i'm not an expert in Argentina, but i've been around and i know how to mitigate risk - eventually the old-timers will have to admit that saying 'it won't change because it had always been this way' was very bad advice for non-Locals with a lot to lose. we should all be responsible and advise people on taking the best decision in their risk category, with all the information.

They don't need to use AI. Here in CABA, AFIP is already seeing immediately once a property is listed for sale what the owners end up declaring and they also look at going rates. Mendoza might be different but I doubt it. If a property is listed at $100,000 dollars and the realtors and escribano list that it only sold for $40k it is an immediate red flag. Previously no one might have cared but things are changing. My lawyer told me at least in CABA the Escribanos are more aware and scared of this.

 

[earlyretirement]

All good points. I defintely would NOT recommend only declaring 40% of the true price. As others mentioned, it's very common for sellers to insist on declaring lower prices but I would not go under 70%. Many locals are comfortable with doing it and it IS very common here but AFIP is constantly working to fight tax fraud.

And even when you aren't cheating or declaring lower, keep in mind that AFIP still might place the value higher than what you actually sell for. I've been buying and selling properties in Argentina for 22 years and only for the first time had a case a few months ago where an American retained me to help her sell her property. A very complicated case as her husband died and he is the one that liked Buenos Aires and she didn't. The apartment had sevrere humidity issues with a leak in the top of the building (she had a penthouse unit). Apparently, the building didn't fix it properly over the years and she stopped coming down before COVID. She had a horrible property manager and just let it leak.

Long story short, she couldn't sell the property because of the tremendous problems with the roof leak. The building administration was broke and didn't have the money to fix it and she let the insurance policy lapse during COVID. She just wanted to get rid of it. The realtor found a buyer for the price that she wanted which was a HUGE discount because of the humidity issues.

Well, when she went to sell it, AFIP wouldn't believe she was selling for such a steep discount even though we had 2 appraisals from realtors stating about the tremendous damage and issues. They just assumed she was using a fake lower price and she was charged the stamp taxes and transfer taxes on a much higher amount. I've never seen that in 22 years so I can say things are changing.

We appealed it but in the end, she just wanted out and paid the additional taxes on the higher value.

So just keep that in mind when people say that "things like been like this forever and it's ok to declare much lower prices".

 

[StatusNomadicus]

no ethical Escribano would do it for lower than 70% of the purchase price due to the risk of losing their license. Maybe this is different outside of Buenos Aires but as it was explained to me, when owners list their properties, the listing prices are given to AFIP. If the price on the title deed is much lower than recent closing prices or the last listing price, it will get flagged by AFIP. I don't know if this is the same in Mendoza

eh, one of the builders in that same area was very open about hiding a lot of the purchase price. i'd have to look at the paper, but it was either 70% or a little less. regardless, this would be an easy prosecution if AFIP ever enforced the law. regardless if you commit 5% fraud or 50% fraud, it's still illegal. now, i don't agree there should be a tax in the first place, so no argument in doing it...it's just too risky for me. and just like the Blue Dollar and cuevas being illegal in the past, i think these are stupid laws and everyone is violating them. when you have a nation that enacts laws that makes every citizen a felon, you have a corrupt system

"Almost two millennia ago, the Roman historian Tacitus observed that 'the more corrupt the State, the more numerous the laws.'"

Three Felonies a Day?

“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.” —Lavrentiy Beria, Stalin’s Soviet Security Chief It is no State secret that government legislators and bureaucrats churn out a multitude of laws, statutes, codes, rules, and regulations year after year without any letup. After all, they must...

www.wholefoodsmagazine.com

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

but for sure i don't thin Mendoza is unique. my Notary is very honest and wants no less than 40% - i think people just won't go less because it's too obvious?

this might also be an unpopular opinion, but Retirement as a concept (just stopping making money when you hit an arbitrary age) is weird. i've never understood why people think they're entitled to just stop providing goods/services to other people and get a free ride.

continuing on this, i saw something that reminded me of this concept...Kiyosaki from "Rich Dad/Poor Dad" talked about USA retirees going back to work:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1835485972353667391

and great advice from @earlyretirement as always - my personal risk factor is VERY different from the average person, and i would always worry about getting audited. as technology gets better and the government needs more money, these cases would be easy $ to take from rich folks who own property.

 

[Uncle Wong]

eh, one of the builders in that same area was very open about hiding a lot of the purchase price. i'd have to look at the paper, but it was either 70% or a little less. regardless, this would be an easy prosecution if AFIP ever enforced the law. regardless if you commit 5% fraud or 50% fraud, it's still illegal. now, i don't agree there should be a tax in the first place, so no argument in doing it...it's just too risky for me. and just like the Blue Dollar and cuevas being illegal in the past, i think these are stupid laws and everyone is violating them. when you have a nation that enacts laws that makes every citizen a felon, you have a corrupt system

"Almost two millennia ago, the Roman historian Tacitus observed that 'the more corrupt the State, the more numerous the laws.'"

Three Felonies a Day?

“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.” —Lavrentiy Beria, Stalin’s Soviet Security Chief It is no State secret that government legislators and bureaucrats churn out a multitude of laws, statutes, codes, rules, and regulations year after year without any letup. After all, they must...

www.wholefoodsmagazine.com

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

but for sure i don't thin Mendoza is unique. my Notary is very honest and wants no less than 40% - i think people just won't go less because it's too obvious?



continuing on this, i saw something that reminded me of this concept...Kiyosaki from "Rich Dad/Poor Dad" talked about USA retirees going back to work:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1835485972353667391

and great advice from @earlyretirement as always - my personal risk factor is VERY different from the average person, and i would always worry about getting audited. as technology gets better and the government needs more money, these cases would be easy $ to take from rich folks who own property.

I wouldn't worry too much with this new President but what I would worry about is if he becomes unpopular and then Peronists are elected again. If you're breaking laws it might be easy for them to just target people that are blatantly breaking the law. I don't think it would take a genius for their government to see what listing prices are and then what the final price you're listing on title deed.

 

[Larry]

yeah? which university? who paid for the study? what are their political motivations? has it been peer-reviewed? are there economists at that same university who would disagree? did anyone ask them? did other universities agree and come to the same independent numbers? how does the 52% compare to Dec2023? is this based on official dollar rate versus Blue, or using the now-higher Official rate after it was hiked-up this year? 14.2 million people are under the poverty line, really? (Apr2024 claim).

You are crazy. Even Milei admits the poverty rate is over 50% of the entire country.

Argentina Recession Deepened as Milei Shock Therapy Stung

(Bloomberg) -- Argentina’s economy sunk deeper into recession in the second quarter as ripple effects from President Javier Milei’s currency devaluation and austerity exacerbated a downturn. Most Read from BloombergCalifornia’s Anti-Speeding Bill Can Be a Traffic Safety BreakthroughAOC Proposes...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[StatusNomadicus]

poverty rate is over 50% of the entire country.

you didn't read anything i wrote, Comrade Larry. i wrote a mini essay about all of this; how are you missing the entire premise? this is why i Mute you...you just make everyone dumber by posting here.

27Sep2023: "[...] an annual inflation rate above 100%. The portion of Argentines living in poverty reached 40.1% in the first six months of the year, according to figures released Wednesday by the government’s INDEC statistics agency. That is up from 39.2% in the second half of 2022."

Rising poverty grips Argentina as runaway inflation takes its toll

Homeless shelters in Argentina's capital are seeing demand soar as more people are struggling to make ends meet amid an annual inflation rate above 100% that is pushing more people into poverty.

apnews.com

18Nov2023: "The daunting economic landscape choking Argentine voters - The winning presidential candidate on November 19 will inherit a country with a stagnant economy, inflation over 142%, a 40% poverty rate, and minimal reserves"​

The daunting economic landscape choking Argentine voters

The winning presidential candidate on November 19 will inherit a country with a stagnant economy, inflation over 142%, a 40% poverty rate, and minimal reserves

english.elpais.com

sounds like the Ks who you voted for destroyed the country, and now inflation is slowing and the government's stats about poverty are slightly elevated. but like i said, who is measuring, and how can you prove it, with 80%+ in negra exactly?

here's something you won't like to read, dumb-dumb:

04Dec2023: "Days before leaving office, President Fernández questions Argentina’s official poverty rate - President Alberto Fernández has questioned the INDEC national statistics bureau, saying he think that Argentina’s official poverty rate is “badly measured.' On INDEC’s official figure of 40.1 percent of the country's poor, Fernández told the news agency that 'if there were that much poverty, Argentina would be exploding at the seams.' More than four in 10 Argentines are living in poverty according to the statistics agency, which is tasked with measuring official government data."

why not go argue with him?