Argentina Rentista Visa for 2024? What is the minimum income now for retirement visa for Argentina?

[StatusNomadicus]

On the overstay issue or border runs I think everyone needs to do what they think is comfortable for them. I don't know anyone that has traveled with a dog/pet so I'm sure that changes things drastically. I wouldn't consider myself an old-timer at all and I am comfortable just doing some traveling in and out of Argentina every 90 days if I came for a long-term stay.

sure, just be aware of the evidence that some people have been flagged and denied entry, and help me remind some of the old-timers who are stuck in their ways, that everyone should make that decision based on all the info, and not just 'it's fine just do border runs because i've never met anyone who...' etc. 🙂

1. two stories from 2014 on the old forum https://baexpats.org/threads/4th-colonia-run.29847/post-251504

2. guide about residency/citizenship which mentions "IRREGULAR" status of illegal border runs https://baexpats.org/threads/immigration-for-dummies.29534/

unfortunately a lot of people stopped using the old forum, or haven't yet transitioned to this one, so hopefully the Mod(s) keep archiving posts here, in case the old forum owner deletes useful stuff

 

[Bob]

sure, just be aware of the evidence that some people have been flagged and denied entry, and help me remind some of the old-timers who are stuck in their ways, that everyone should make that decision based on all the info, and not just 'it's fine just do border runs because i've never met anyone who...' etc. 🙂

1. two stories from 2014 on the old forum https://baexpats.org/threads/4th-colonia-run.29847/post-251504

2. guide about residency/citizenship which mentions "IRREGULAR" status of illegal border runs https://baexpats.org/threads/immigration-for-dummies.29534/

unfortunately a lot of people stopped using the old forum, or haven't yet transitioned to this one, so hopefully the Mod(s) keep archiving posts here, in case the old forum owner deletes useful stuff

Yes everyone has to consider the risks but I think the very few people that had issues might just be chalked up to grumpy border official that can happen from time to time. Until I read about it becoming more of an issue or friends having problems, I will consider it safe to enter and leave the country frequently.

Agree almost no one posts on old forum anymore. I can't tell if more people are leaving Argentina. It sounds like several people have left or planning on leaving soon.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

I can't tell if more people are leaving Argentina. It sounds like several people have left or planning on leaving soon.

why leave? for the first time in a long time, prices are MUCH more stable. and life is good!

 

[Bob]

why leave? for the first time in a long time, prices are MUCH more stable. and life is good!

Agree. I am happy here but know a few expats that have left. More of the digital nomad types. 2 that I know moved to Thailand. Some local friends moved to Spain.

Food prices have stabilized but are you paying utility bills @StatusNomadicus? You probably aren't paying for utility bills or not dealing with condo fees. All have jumped up the past few months. Those prices aren't stabilizing at all. They keep going up and probably will keep going up. Medical premiums have started going up again after staying flat a few months.

Still a fraction of what my family is paying back home but prices keep going up on many things. Several medications have also gone up in price.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

@Bob technically everyone is paying utilities 😛 my landlord isn't just suddenly wealthy enough to cover the increases for free, so every Airbnb i book is certainly pricing-in the new costs. also, Buenos Aires is just expensive; that's a huge part of it...and i've been in the "Interior" for 6-ish months now. but i'm still paying under 600 bucks monthly, no contract, on Airbnb with a Miles credit card, for a nice apartment in the best area of Mendoza, with a washing machine and (and it's dog-friendly, so i'm already paying more than most). Condo fees are unfortunate but HOA prices in the USA are also choices made by people (i would never live in an HOA). and i've argued elsewhere that 90% of medications for most people aren't necessary and are choices caused by poor choices in the past, so Health Insurance and prescriptions are absolutely choices, and not representative of the populace as a whole. i'm around 40 and take no medications, and don't plan to, yet when i was a cop one of my co-workers was younger than me (he was 28) and was already on Metformin/pre-diabetes meds, as well as a blood pressure pill (and maybe a Statin, not sure). the "Sick Care" of modern 'medicine' isn't normal, and i'm happy to report that most people could probably live without pills and most medical bills if they would just buy a $50 USD pair of running shoes once a year, get sun daily, drink less alcohol, and get real sleep for 8 hours.

at some point, Expats in BsAs will reject these increasing prices if they are unreasonable, and the market will do what it always does, and fix the problem : ) i haven't heard of anyone leaving Argentina for good this year; if anything, a record number of people are watching closely to see if the December law reductions will make it even more compelling as a place to live. the future looks bright, as Patrick Bet-David says, and we shall see how these next 5 months go around the world

 

[Digital Nomad]

I heard it's much cheaper outside of Buenos Aires. Glad you're enjoying these smaller cities. I read that the utility bill rates are even higher outside of CABA which has bigger subsidies I'm told. $600 for a dog friendly rental sounds great.

In CABA I'm not sure how you could skip out on HOA fees as just about every single property except for houses or PH properties have them but every apartment for the most part I'm told has these monthly expenses.

Agree about doing more exercise but many people are on meds that they do need. My parents are on several medications. I'm not sure if people here take less than we take in the States.

Let's see how things turn out by the end of this year with the economy and with the recession. People seem to be losing their patience here in CABA.

 

[Finance Prof]

@Bob technically everyone is paying utilities 😛 my landlord isn't just suddenly wealthy enough to cover the increases for free, so every Airbnb i book is certainly pricing-in the new costs. also, Buenos Aires is just expensive; that's a huge part of it...and i've been in the "Interior" for 6-ish months now. but i'm still paying under 600 bucks monthly, no contract, on Airbnb with a Miles credit card, for a nice apartment in the best area of Mendoza, with a washing machine and (and it's dog-friendly, so i'm already paying more than most). Condo fees are unfortunate but HOA prices in the USA are also choices made by people (i would never live in an HOA). and i've argued elsewhere that 90% of medications for most people aren't necessary and are choices caused by poor choices in the past, so Health Insurance and prescriptions are absolutely choices, and not representative of the populace as a whole. i'm around 40 and take no medications, and don't plan to, yet when i was a cop one of my co-workers was younger than me (he was 28) and was already on Metformin/pre-diabetes meds, as well as a blood pressure pill (and maybe a Statin, not sure). the "Sick Care" of modern 'medicine' isn't normal, and i'm happy to report that most people could probably live without pills and most medical bills if they would just buy a $50 USD pair of running shoes once a year, get sun daily, drink less alcohol, and get real sleep for 8 hours.

at some point, Expats in BsAs will reject these increasing prices if they are unreasonable, and the market will do what it always does, and fix the problem : ) i haven't heard of anyone leaving Argentina for good this year; if anything, a record number of people are watching closely to see if the December law reductions will make it even more compelling as a place to live. the future looks bright, as Patrick Bet-David says, and we shall see how these next 5 months go around the world

Eventually prices will get adjusted if you're not paying utilities separately, the owners will eventually increase the rental rate to reflect those increases.

It's definitely more affordable outside of CABA in most cases. There are some other expensive areas outside of the city. Down in Bariloche some friends are paying expensive rental rates.

As far as monthly expenses, some Americans have the notion that this is a choice that many can make. In the States you can opt to rent a place with no HOA fees but in CABA most apartments have monthly expenses that are passed on to the tenant in majority of rentals. And these are rising very quickly. Obviously houses outside of CABA are desirable since there are no extra monthly expenses like apartments.

Doing exercise is always a good idea but many people have genetic issues that have nothing to do with exercise. Also, being single and just a dog is a very different scenario vs. expats with children or older expats with existing health conditions. Medical insurance is definitely needed in many scenarios in life no matter where you live.

If things continue to get more expensive it won't be an appealing place for many people on fixed incomes. Be weary of some of these inflation figures. They can easily be manipulated. While some prices have gotten better with inflation, many things are significantly more in a relatively short amount of time here.

 

[FuturoBA]

Eventually prices will get adjusted if you're not paying utilities separately, the owners will eventually increase the rental rate to reflect those increases.

It's definitely more affordable outside of CABA in most cases. There are some other expensive areas outside of the city. Down in Bariloche some friends are paying expensive rental rates.

As far as monthly expenses, some Americans have the notion that this is a choice that many can make. In the States you can opt to rent a place with no HOA fees but in CABA most apartments have monthly expenses that are passed on to the tenant in majority of rentals. And these are rising very quickly. Obviously houses outside of CABA are desirable since there are no extra monthly expenses like apartments.

Doing exercise is always a good idea but many people have genetic issues that have nothing to do with exercise. Also, being single and just a dog is a very different scenario vs. expats with children or older expats with existing health conditions. Medical insurance is definitely needed in many scenarios in life no matter where you live.

If things continue to get more expensive it won't be an appealing place for many people on fixed incomes. Be weary of some of these inflation figures. They can easily be manipulated. While some prices have gotten better with inflation, many things are significantly more in a relatively short amount of time here.

Anybody expecting to stay here or anywhere long term should be factoring in inflation, price fluctuations, and stability- and having plans for how and when it could affect you. Either living frugally and healthy when things are cheap to have a cushion when prices rise, having a skill that can you return to either part-time, seasonally, or full-time, or something else including moving to another area more affordable. Prices won't stay low forever and when they rise won't go up forever, and one should have a plan for what actions to do at each varying price points so as to not get blind sided when things change.

 

[Uncle Wong]

Anybody expecting to stay here or anywhere long term should be factoring in inflation, price fluctuations, and stability- and having plans for how and when it could affect you. Either living frugally and healthy when things are cheap to have a cushion when prices rise, having a skill that can you return to either part-time, seasonally, or full-time, or something else including moving to another area more affordable. Prices won't stay low forever and when they rise won't go up forever, and one should have a plan for what actions to do at each varying price points so as to not get blind sided when things change.

Very wise words. In most places things don't fluctuate so quickly but it seems like in Argentina things can turn on a dime. It seems like it went from very very cheap with many on Tik Tok posting about how cheap it is to things going up 3X on many things in less than a year. It looks like we are in for a big correction in the stock market and bigger military actions and conflict in the Middle East. In these kind of scenarios everything is going to dump.

One of my friends thought bitcoin was his plan but kept telling me how it would be $100k by now and it looks like it is tanking and if there is some conflict, everything is going to tank. Sure it will eventually come back but it's probably a good idea to save much more than you think you will need and spend a lot less than you can comfortably spend.

 

[Blockchain]

Very wise words. In most places things don't fluctuate so quickly but it seems like in Argentina things can turn on a dime. It seems like it went from very very cheap with many on Tik Tok posting about how cheap it is to things going up 3X on many things in less than a year. It looks like we are in for a big correction in the stock market and bigger military actions and conflict in the Middle East. In these kind of scenarios everything is going to dump.

One of my friends thought bitcoin was his plan but kept telling me how it would be $100k by now and it looks like it is tanking and if there is some conflict, everything is going to tank. Sure it will eventually come back but it's probably a good idea to save much more than you think you will need and spend a lot less than you can comfortably spend.

Long term Bitcoin should do very well but of course if there is a major conflict or war it will sink like a rock. Some shadowy forces robbing some people that post that they have crypto. Read this yesterday and some scary sh*t.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1831719184041906286

 

[Digital Nomad]

Long term Bitcoin should do very well but of course if there is a major conflict or war it will sink like a rock. Some shadowy forces robbing some people that post that they have crypto. Read this yesterday and some scary sh*t.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1831719184041906286

That's nuts!

 

[StatusNomadicus]

I read that the utility bill rates are even higher outside of CABA which has bigger subsidies

from Realtors/Corredores here in Mendoza, most big houses only have $50 USD total costs for electricity/gas/city utilities, so not sure that's true here. but i haven't seen the actual bills, and i never believe anything a realtor or Seller says 😛

every apartment for the most part I'm told has these monthly expenses.

sure, which i why i said me renting is the same as owning in way, since i also on Airbnb am paying the increased costs. but there's still super-cheap housing on Airbnb all over Argentina; anyone can do a search and see dozens of great places to live for 3+ months. i just don't see the increases in USD that the Peronists were spouting for several months, post-election. Argentina is still 1/4 the price of the USA in most aspects of life.

many people are on meds that they do need. My parents are on several medications.

i don't want to sound harsh, but like i said, 90% of prescriptions are due to lifestyle choices. Type-1 Diabetes and similar diseases are VERY different than Type-2 (obesity) diabetes and all the other fat-person-choosing-to-be-fat medications that we estadounidenses have been brainwashed to think are normal.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776555124078330300

as Grok (AI on twitter) says:

"The heavy use of prescription medications in the United States compared to other parts of the world can be attributed to several factors:
-Healthcare System Structure: The U.S. healthcare system is largely privatized with a significant emphasis on fee-for-service, where doctors are paid for the services they provide, potentially incentivizing more prescriptions. Also, the availability of direct-to-consumer advertising for pharmaceuticals, which is not as prevalent or is banned in many other countries, encourages patients to request specific medications.
-Cultural Attitudes Towards Health and Medication: There's a cultural tendency in the U.S. to seek medical solutions for health issues, including conditions that might be managed with lifestyle changes elsewhere. This includes a strong belief in the power of medication to solve health problems, which can lead to over-prescription and polypharmacy (the use of multiple medications by a patient).
-Chronic Disease Prevalence: The U.S. has high rates of chronic diseases like diabetes, heart disease, and obesity, which often require long-term medication. The lifestyle leading to these conditions might be more prevalent due to dietary habits, less physical activity, and other socio-economic factors.
Pharmaceutical Industry Influence: The pharmaceutical industry has significant influence through marketing to both doctors and consumers. This can lead to higher rates of prescription for new, often more expensive drugs, even when older, less expensive alternatives might suffice.
Insurance and Coverage: The way health insurance operates in the U.S. might encourage medication over other forms of treatment or prevention because medications might be covered more comprehensively than preventive care or alternative therapies.
-Regulatory Environment: The regulatory environment in the U.S. might be more permissive in terms of what drugs can be marketed and for what conditions, leading to a broader spectrum of conditions being treated with medication.
-Economic Factors: High drug prices in the U.S. contribute to higher overall spending on medications, but this also might mean that Americans are prescribed more medications because companies push for the use of newer, patented drugs over generics or non-pharmacological treatments.
Mental Health Awareness: Increased awareness and diagnosis of mental health issues have led to more prescriptions for psychiatric medications. While this is a global trend, the U.S. might be at the forefront due to higher diagnosis rates and the availability of treatments.
-Lack of Preventive Care: There might be less emphasis on preventive care in the U.S. healthcare model, leading to conditions that could have been prevented or managed early on, requiring medication later.
-Legal and Policy Framework: Policies like Medicare Part D have made prescription drugs more accessible to certain populations, which can increase usage. Also, the legal environment allows for more aggressive marketing practices by pharmaceutical companies.
-From posts on X and broader discussions, there's a sentiment that Americans might be over-reliant on medications due to these systemic and cultural factors, with some pointing out that despite high usage, health outcomes are not necessarily better, suggesting that lifestyle changes and other non-pharmacological interventions could be underutilized."

People seem to be losing their patience here in CABA.

weird; i haven't heard anyone chatting about that. if anything, more people i know are fascinated by Argentina, and December seems to be the month where the MOST potential successes are to be found 🙂

the owners will eventually increase the rental rate to reflect those increases.

yep, that's what i said, agreed!

Bariloche

everyone has told me Patagonia is hugely expensive. not sure why anyone would buy there, since it's cold 10 months out of the year and expensive, meanwhile Mendoza is hot 2 months out of the year and inexpensive 😛 i ask mendocinos all the time if they see USA folks here in Mendoza, and they say it's very rare. not sure why!

And these are rising very quickly.

still a choice to stay there and pay them 😉

many people have genetic issues that have nothing to do with exercise.

disagree; i think it's probably 10% of people/prescriptions

being single and just a dog is a very different scenario vs. expats with children or older expats with existing health conditions.

sure; i'm not single, and my dog eats raw meat/organs which is much more expensive than locals feeding extruded bagged dry dog food...and of course having children is a choice (i am child-free on purpose), and being older means you would have Social Security, Medicare, maybe retirement, and overall more life connections and development than someone around 40, so i find this argument strange. and existing health conditions are almost always lifestyle-related. most people don't want to admit that their poor choices and laziness have contributed to the cycle they find themselves in. don't shoot the messenger!

If things continue to get more expensive it won't be an appealing place for many people on fixed incomes

still sticking to my claim: costs in Dollars for required things are the same. but sure, some people with decades of poor choices might find that their Dollars aren't going as far with all the choices they have made.

While some prices have gotten better with inflation, many things are significantly more in a relatively short amount of time here.

i'd love to see these things. i've challenged others on different threads and have never received an actual list, with increase percentages. but no, Health Insurance is not required or necessary for most people, so that shouldn't be included (and i think further de-regulation will allow more competition to drop prices)

 

[Larry]

from Realtors/Corredores here in Mendoza, most big houses only have $50 USD total costs for electricity/gas/city utilities, so not sure that's true here. but i haven't seen the actual bills, and i never believe anything a realtor or Seller says 😛

Don't trust realtors. Electricity prices outside of CABA are much more expensive per kwh. I am not sure what it is in Mendoza but look and see the price. Maybe you won't use much electricity but better to see what typical usage is.

everyone has told me Patagonia is hugely expensive. not sure why anyone would buy there, since it's cold 10 months out of the year and expensive, meanwhile Mendoza is hot 2 months out of the year and inexpensive 😛 i ask mendocinos all the time if they see USA folks here in Mendoza, and they say it's very rare. not sure why!

Yes parts of Patagonia very expensive. Some places more expensive than CABA. Bariloche is beautiful but expensive. Several Americans down in Bariloche especially in some gated communities. Not sure how they ended up there.

 

[Blockchain]

Agree with you @StatusNomadicus that too many people take way too many medications. Especially Americans. It seems like doctors are incentivized to just keep writing more and more prescriptions. It is nuts!

What are restaurant prices like in Mendoza? I am seeing some menus online for places in BA and prices are out of whack. Prices are expensive in many places now. I have seen some posts about places in Palermo with $4 USD cups of expresso now. Are you saying you aren't seeing prices go up? Even the government is saying inflation is about 4% go 5% a month. So even that is 60% a year increase on food prices. Blue dollar has been going down too so that should even make prices more.

I didn't think many places were that great of a value at restaurants in BA. Not sure about Mendoza but many places were on par with what you'd spend in the States. Sure you can always find cheaper places but nicer places are quite expensive in BA.

 

[Wally]

still sticking to my claim: costs in Dollars for required things are the same. but sure, some people with decades of poor choices might find that their Dollars aren't going as far with all the choices they have made.

Dude inflation is estimated to be 123% in 2024. Not sure how you can try arguing that prices haven't gone up in Argentina. You may have a point about not needing private insurance in Argentina but utilities, transportation, gas, monthly condo expenses and just about everything else has gone up in price. Not saying that Argentina isn't a good place to end up but you have to be the only person in the country that is trying to argue that costs haven't gone up in dollars here.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/argentina-analysts-cut-2024-inflation-forecast-nearly-123-2024-09-05/

 

[Jenn]

Anybody expecting to stay here or anywhere long term should be factoring in inflation, price fluctuations, and stability- and having plans for how and when it could affect you. Either living frugally and healthy when things are cheap to have a cushion when prices rise, having a skill that can you return to either part-time, seasonally, or full-time, or something else including moving to another area more affordable. Prices won't stay low forever and when they rise won't go up forever, and one should have a plan for what actions to do at each varying price points so as to not get blind sided when things change.

Sounds like good advice. My friends are there now and they said since last year many things are more. They are in a long term lease now vs. Airbnb where they are paying the expenses. I have seen other people post examples of each month's bills from January until today and jumps up.

Probably not too big of a deal for expats but with local incomes it looks painful.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

Electricity prices outside of CABA are much more expensive per kwh

i can't find exact stuff, but my goal is to see someone's actual bill for a big house (and jeez, the houses in Mendoza capital are HUGE, like 200-300 m2 which is like 3,000 sqft! my house in the USA was big at 2,000 sqft but soooooo many houses here are massive).

here's an Apr2024 analysis of the total bills (attached)

laughably, the highest cost is still less than $40 USD average. my USA Southwest cooling bill was 150-275 bucks per month in the summer, and the last house i lived in, in the Midwest, cost 200-300 bucks per month to heat (electric only) in the winter. Argentina ought to remove all subsidies, since it just incentivizes people to appear 'poor' on paper. also, it detracts from personal responsibility to close windows/doors, use less energy unnecessarily, and will encourage people to invest in dual-pane windows and actual insulation (so many apartments/houses have huge gaps to let outside air in)

once nuclear power (regional) is allowed more freely, these prices will go way down. and not to be harsh, but there are SO MANY rich Mendocinos with huge 300 m2 houses, and it's just crazy that some of them can pay $40 USD per month to have a mansion; part of buying or building a huge house with super-high ceilings and multiple floors is that you will pay more in utilities. if you want cheap utilities (as i do), you buy something smaller and focus on efficiency versus aesthetics/appearance. these are all choices, and decadence in the past means the cost must be paid sometime later...for instance, the apartment i'm staying at now has great reviews on Airbnb yet the Host has been missing 2 pieces of a vented window, so the air outside just comes in. if he had to worry about utilities actually costing anything over $5 USD per month, he would fix the hole. this is why subsidies and government interference ruin everything in life

nicer places are quite expensive in BA.

sure, any city in the world has luxury restaurants that will charge you $20 for a bottle of water, $100 for a bottle of wine, $150 for a steak, etc. - these are all choices 🙂 i posted a lot of prices when i was in CABA, especially in Belgrano, and it was quite easy to look at a menu outside and realize if it's a tourist trap or not (anything over $10 USD per person was unacceptable for me). i'd say Cordoba had the most food for the lowest price, so far.

but here are some current prices in Mendoza Fifth Section (the Palermo equivalent), in total credit card price:

Highlands Burger 5,600 Pesos ($4.64 USD) for a nice medium-sized burger with a good amount of fries. https://www.pedidosya.com.ar/restau...ger-dd9bcfa8-24ca-468d-a251-340673a6c2a4-menu

Madison RestoBar 6,100 Pesos ($5.06 USD) for 4 pints of draft beer. https://maps.app.goo.gl/HxLWgwj7m7d3JZis9

El Artesano restaurant 13,000 Pesos ($10.78) for a big 2-person Lomito sandwich, thick steak and great sauce, with a normal/small serving of fries, that i eat regularly and split with my lady...SO tasty. https://www.pedidosya.com.ar/restau...des-8d08e4e3-aba3-4edf-8754-944391ee730a-menu

overall, i try to spend $7-8 USD per person to eat a full meal, depending on the tip i give (they're all shared here in Mendoza, also, but you can easily add the tip on credit card, unlike 95% of my experience in CABA). this is on the main strip in the most trendy bar street. of course i've paid $16 USD per person, but i've found the most-expensive places actually have awful food. if anyone ever comes to Mendoza and wants a list of good meals, i'm building quite a nice list, and maybe earlyretirement or a Mod would want to start letting some people like me build "Articles" on other cities outside of BsAs (like the old censored forum has)

and medical-wise: i just paid 49,000 Pesos ($41 USD) for a doctor office visit to get my full blood panel and Testosterone checked...no previous appointment, insurance, or referral needed. an actual physician drew my blood and took my cash. i'll let you research what this elective test would cost in the USA 😛

inflation is estimated to be 123% in 2024

i like your posts, but i've addressed the issue of costs in Dollars before. i've been here since November 2023 and i've spent with a credit card 99% of days, and i'v posted dozens of links and prices. once again, i don't want to beat a dead horse and bore others, but for my entire time here the Blue Dollar or MEP rate have gone up commensurate with the Peso inflation. this Reuters article mentions prices in Pesos, so of course there is inflation and the nominal price in ARS is up...no one is arguing otherwise. i came to Argentina and empanadas were about 250 Pesos. they are now 600 Pesos each. i don't want to spend more time on this because i think we're arguing about the same thing: costs in Pesos have gone up, with 2023 being the MOST INSANE destruction of the Peso. but this is an Expat Forum where we are discussing prices in Dollars which have remained very much stable. you can get a normal apartment on Airbnb for $300-600 USD. you can get a big meal for $4-8 USD. you can get a beer can pint for $1 USD at a kiosk. these things have not changed for my budget, 9 months later.

utilities, transportation, gas, monthly condo expenses and just about everything else has gone up in price

i've also addressed this: how many taxes have been removed in 2024 in parallel? for my house-buying, i already don't have to pay the ITI tax (1.25% or something like that), which would be over 1,000 Dollars for me. why not discuss how prices have been stable for 4 months? a can of tuna has been 1,780 Pesos at Carrefour for 4 months now. fresh milk liters have been 1,200 Pesos for La Serenisma for several months. gasoline/nafta has been at 1,000 Pesos for how long now?

i am not the only person, and i've provided evidence every time i share my expenses. costs in Dollars for required things have not gone up overall in Dollars. disagree, and you can look at my other posts, so we don't have to waste time on this thread (getting off-topic for Rentier stuff, apologies).

I have seen other people post examples of each month's bills from January until today and jumps up.

Probably not too big of a deal for expats but with local incomes it looks painful.

take it all with a grain of salt, like i said. i'm still paying VERY CHEAP for a nice apartment, month-to-month on Airbnb paying the 'tourist price'

Argies overwhelmingly have Dollars saved and have very little bills compared to the rest of the world, and families support each other. the real danger to Locals is the destruction of the Peso that began a long time ago, but in my nine months of Argentina i have noticed that starting around April, prices began to stabilize in Pesos, and for at least 4 months i have paid almost the same prices in Pesos for necessities. you can check my old posts for this, but be skeptical of the people who make claims about ARGENTINA IS GETTING EXPENSIVE IN DOLLARS without providing any evidence 😉

imagine how painful it was for Locals to have the Kirchner family take 2022-2023 and wreck the Peso: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1320016/monthly-inflation-rate-argentina/

i like looking at old menus on GoogleMaps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/W6NVZCj6wzyy7fVJA

here we see Jan2022 fries cost 250 Pesos...what do you think they are now? 5,000 Pesos? THIS is the pain Locals have felt. right now, prices in Pesos are much more stable, despite what the regulation-lovers and Commies want to lie about.

 

[Wally]

once nuclear power (regional) is allowed more freely, these prices will go way down. and not to be harsh, but there are SO MANY rich Mendocinos with huge 300 m2 houses, and it's just crazy that some of them can pay $40 USD per month to have a mansion; part of buying or building a huge house with super-high ceilings and multiple floors is that you will pay more in utilities. if you want cheap utilities (as i do), you buy something smaller and focus on efficiency versus aesthetics/appearance. these are all choices, and decadence in the past means the cost must be paid sometime later...for instance, the apartment i'm staying at now has great reviews on Airbnb yet the Host has been missing 2 pieces of a vented window, so the air outside just comes in. if he had to worry about utilities actually costing anything over $5 USD per month, he would fix the hole. this is why subsidies and government interference ruin everything in life

I'm curious what the utility rates are like in Mendoza. I heard they were double the price of CABA but I'm not sure and never seen a bill there. You might want to ask to see the last bill. On Twitter I saw a few people complaining of rates there being more than CABA. Real estate is cheaper in Mendoza so it sounds like locals built larger properties. Up until recently not many mortgages so the good thing is once people build a house they have very low expenses once they have a house. No hoa fees is great.

Highlands Burger 5,600 Pesos ($4.64 USD) for a nice medium-sized burger with a good amount of fries. https://www.pedidosya.com.ar/restau...ger-dd9bcfa8-24ca-468d-a251-340673a6c2a4-menu

Madison RestoBar 6,100 Pesos ($5.06 USD) for 4 pints of draft beer. https://maps.app.goo.gl/HxLWgwj7m7d3JZis9

El Artesano restaurant 13,000 Pesos ($10.78) for a big 2-person Lomito sandwich, thick steak and great sauce, with a normal/small serving of fries, that i eat regularly and split with my lady...SO tasty. https://www.pedidosya.com.ar/restau...des-8d08e4e3-aba3-4edf-8754-944391ee730a-menu

overall, i try to spend $7-8 USD per person to eat a full meal, depending on the tip i give (they're all shared here in Mendoza, also, but you can easily add the tip on credit card, unlike 95% of my experience in CABA). this is on the main strip in the most trendy bar street. of course i've paid $16 USD per person, but i've found the most-expensive places actually have awful food. if anyone ever comes to Mendoza and wants a list of good meals, i'm building quite a nice list, and maybe earlyretirement or a Mod would want to start letting some people like me build "Articles" on other cities outside of BsAs (like the old censored forum has)

and medical-wise: i just paid 49,000 Pesos ($41 USD) for a doctor office visit to get my full blood panel and Testosterone checked...no previous appointment, insurance, or referral needed. an actual physician drew my blood and took my cash. i'll let you research what this elective test would cost in the USA 😛

Food is less expensive in Mendoza vs. BA. I agree with some others that post that food is expensive in BA at plenty of places, especially Palermo. Doctors visits are very affordable and that is even with inflation and prices going up. That doctor's visit likely last year might have only been 25,000 pesos. In the States it probably would have been $800 or more with no insurance. Even with insurance the deductibles would have been more than what you paid.

i like your posts, but i've addressed the issue of costs in Dollars before. i've been here since November 2023 and i've spent with a credit card 99% of days, and i'v posted dozens of links and prices. once again, i don't want to beat a dead horse and bore others, but for my entire time here the Blue Dollar or MEP rate have gone up commensurate with the Peso inflation. this Reuters article mentions prices in Pesos, so of course there is inflation and the nominal price in ARS is up...no one is arguing otherwise. i came to Argentina and empanadas were about 250 Pesos. they are now 600 Pesos each. i don't want to spend more time on this because i think we're arguing about the same thing: costs in Pesos have gone up, with 2023 being the MOST INSANE destruction of the Peso. but this is an Expat Forum where we are discussing prices in Dollars which have remained very much stable. you can get a normal apartment on Airbnb for $300-600 USD. you can get a big meal for $4-8 USD. you can get a beer can pint for $1 USD at a kiosk. these things have not changed for my budget, 9 months later.

Also like your posts. They are informative. I do agree somethings work out with your examples but many of us have been living here for a while and not just in Airbnbs. Most people here living long term either own their own place or renting in long term contracts. And prices have gone up. People have posted plenty of examples.

In one of the threads, one of the members outlined their monthly expenses for their apartment just since January and it literally tripled. So just like you're posting about your Airbnb not going up much. People are posting real life examples of expenses tripling. You don't have medical insurance but several of us with kids do have it. That has also shot up.

If you buy a home there, check what insurance rates are. Mine have gone up over 150% over the past year too. You will have to pay utilities and even in an apartment here in CABA my bills are going up significantly. Check the kwh rates in Mendoza.

Agree with you that inflation has stabilized and slowed down on food but living in a temporary Airbnb rental is one class of expats but probably not common for people that have been here for years so you have to keep that in mind too.

 

[Betsy Ross]

It is good to get different scenarios. Agree with @Wally that there are different scenarios for expats. With Airbnbs you can always jump around and find something lower if one gets too expensive. On normal 2 year leases where you pay all the expenses, it is more difficult to control costs when monthly expensas are going up at a rapid rate.

Sure you could move to another city and rent a house, but the vast majority of expats end up in Buenos Aires. Not many expats venture out to other smaller cities. @StatusNomadicus you have mentioned that there are barely any Americans there. They almost always end up in BA for one reason or another and here it is difficult and expensive to rent a house and not easy to find a PH apartment with no monthly condo fees.

You can see in another post @earlyretirement posted his monthly expenses for one of his apartments. Copied and pasted below. My apartment has experienced the same type of inflation.

August 2024 : 337,326

July 2024: 276,896

June 2024: 216,768 pesos

May 2024: 188,076 pesos

April 2024: 186,015 pesos

March 2024: 131,454 pesos

February 2024 125,854 pesos

January 2024: 125,018 pesos

Apartment buying process confusing in Buenos Aires. Do I need to use the seller's realtor?

Or if you're buying in a new construction development, make sure you are buying from a reputable developer that has been around for at least 10+ years. Preferably over 20 years that has build many towers. This is solid advice. I met a local and he told me about an apartment that he and his...

www.expatsba.com

 

[StatusNomadicus]

food is expensive in BA at plenty of places, especially Palermo.

sure, i never understood the desire to be there - there were always high prices for the same foods, tons of people blocking sidewalks, bums/beggars everywhere, and service was usually bad. i had a much better time in Villa Crespo and Belgrano 🙂

but BsAs, all of it expensive? i haven't been since beginning of March, but every time i look at menus on GoogleMaps (for the 20% that have them online), it looks about the same.

MenuÌ QR.pdf

drive.google.com

5,000 Pesos for Hummus, 10% cash discount ($4 USD)
9,000 Pesos for a Shawarma, 10% cash discount ($7 USD)

QueRestó.com - Tu carta digital

queresto.com

7,800 Pesos for a meal and a glass of wine ($6.25 USD)

LINKTREE ESPANÌOL 09_06_2024.pdf

drive.google.com

4,900 for a bagel with bacon and eggs ($4 USD)

PIZZA DATA - Palermo en Toteat App

PIZZA DATA - Palermo

toteat.app

11,500 Pesos for 4 big slices of margherita pizza ($9.25 USD)

what are you paying for liters of milk in CABA? meat costs? wine? beer? obviously when i go out to eat i know i'm going to spend $7 USD per person, instead of cooking for $2 USD per person. curious what is making you feel that food is different in Dollars in CABA, than it was when i was there Nov-Feb. i have had such a good time eating out in Argentina in CABA, Cordoba, and Mendoza for 9 months now, especially since i left Miami/Tampa where it seemed like everything was doubled in price post-COVID-lockdowns :/

either own their own place

but this would be a nearly-free housing life, where your utilities might have gone up from $5 USD to $15 USD.

or renting in long term contracts.

and this would be paying less than half of what i'm paying on Airbnb, so again, did the price go up for an apartment from $150 USD to $200 USD? i haven't seen real examples. also, every time rents go up, we are all free to leave and shop-around for better housing. choosing to live in one building is another choice...i don't mean to be rude or sound like an asshole, but there is definitely a price for convenience (i don't love moving my bags every 1-3 months, but i'm on a mission to live cheap, and i want to see more areas of Argentina)

monthly expenses for their apartment just since January and it literally tripled.

tripled from what to what? was it an owned apartment? then their expenses went from near-zero to under $100 USD total? i didn't see that post, but again, owning a place is something that what, 20% of people in Argentina do, and thus have almost no housing expenses? i agree that homeowners with big-ass houses or luxury apartments should NOT receive subsidies anymore, and should pay $100/month in realistic utilities for electric/gas/water/trash/sewer/etc. - this is just how it has to be, but overall i would be if i looked at their spending statements i could find more than $100 USD in savings this year, thanks to continuing de-regulation.

medical insurance but several of us with kids do have it. That has also shot up.

sure, it's a choice, and maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree whether that's optional. i grew-up in the same mindset that you need to have insurance...but i just don't see it. in Thailand i was able to pay cash for cheap and professional hospital work at a private hospital in Phuket. in Mendoza i can use WhatsApp and schedule an appointment for anything and pay cash for super cheap. what would i use insurance for, other than peace of mind? (which is a convenience, and a choice, in my opinion). what are kids needing medical care for? there are probably a billion children around the world that don't go see a doctor regularly, and who are in fine health. i think the focus we've been conditioned to have is "Sick Care" instead of healthcare. most years i just get 1-2 dental cleanings and an exam with blood labs. what else? in this, the gym and multivitamin and diet and running expenses pay themselves back A LOT in the long-run. of course every 10 years you might need something like hernia surgery, or have an injury, but why pay thousands per year so that you can save a couple grand once every 10 years? it's much more logical to just have a high-credit-limit credit card and a few grand in a Savings Account for emergencies, medical or otherwise. i just don't personally know anyone that is in a medical situation where they NEED insurance or they will suffer...i know a lot who are hooked on pills, and pills to offset the side-effects of the first pills, and very lazy lifestyle choices on painkillers 24/7, but there have been 3 decades of bad choices before this, and i don't think this self-handicapped situation should scare healthy, young people into feeling like they need to pay $2,000 USD per year in medical insurance.

home there, check what insurance rates are.

i haven't met one mendocino yet who has home insurance 😛 i was surprised! without loans, no need for most people, i suppose. if it would cost more than $500 USD per year, i wouldn't buy that optional service, either.

prices have gone up.

guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this as well; i've been here 9 months and have tracked USD prices for 3 provinces for you guys. i just don't see it, and zero people have posted links to expensive Airbnbs or restaurants. i'm certain this is because those prices are choices, and many others could probably find similar places for half the price, walking distance away. my Uber costs this past month have been zero dollars, because when i need to walk 57 minutes to Migraciones i don't pay $5 USD for an Uber, but instead put headphones in and enjoy a podcast like https://www.martyrmade.com/podcast-parts/1-fear-and-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem

kwh rates in Mendoza.

that was my attachment above, by one of the Argentine media sites. it was laughably low for massive houses...i just don't think people with owned mansions should be paying $30 USD per month for huge electric usage. the government has no place in subsidizing utilities.

living in a temporary Airbnb rental is one class of expats but probably not common for people that have been here for years so you have to keep that in mind too.

but what i'm saying is the opposite - i have to pay the highest prices in USD, for short-to-mid-term housing without a DNI and without the option for 1-2 years of rental contract with locked-in or somewhat-moderated prices. and i have a big dog, so i lose out on 90% of housing. i'm not in "one class of Expats" at all; i'm actually living more frugal than most of the long-term folks, based on what i see. i probably am paying $1,500 USD for every single expense with 2 humans and 1 big dog. i couldn't get a 1-bedroom apartment for that, in most USA cities, much less food/phone/gym/expenses/etc.

having a DNI gives 30%+ savings on so many things. allows for a whole other side of Argentina. what i'm saying is that a single Expat could live extremely cheap in Argentina with Dollars, with most of the perks of other cheap cities, but with world-class clean cities and overall extremely safe. that's all 😛 i'm not living a luxury lifestyle by choice, although i could...it just doesn't appeal to me. regardless if i've been here for years, i would still be shopping around and making sure i'm not wasting thousands of Dollars for small conveniences. in fact, when i own a place here in the future with a DNI, i'll be aiming to live for under $300 USD per month, since housing is my biggest expense. i will be renting a room out on Airbnb once i get the place squared-away, which might be something that 95% of people won't do, but it's a choice that allows prosperity and helps fellow Expats getting started 🙂 i rented furnished rooms in my old house, sometimes having 3 roommates at once. my friends thought i was crazy...but hear me out. 95% of people are peaceful and nice, and Airbnb lets you vet them. you charge $600-1200 USD depending on the room/service offered, so i always asked my buddies 'would you work 5 more hours a week for $20,000 USD extra per year?' and they would say yes. but when i showed them i made $20,000 USD a year on Airbnb and FurnishedFinder by renting out 3 of 4 of the bedrooms of the house i lived in, and i just had to clean a little bit more and mediate minor disputes every 3 months, they still said it just wasn't worth it to them. these are normal people, my age, with 2,000-sqft houses in the same area. privacy and having a big-ass house to themselves was a choice, and one they paid for. i paid my mortgage off so fast that when i sold my house i got a check for 400k. do i remember the annoyance of having 1-3 roommates for years? nope! similarly, i try to stay frugal so i can live for longer in Argentina. it's just a different way of living, and not for everyone, but it's still a daily choice

With Airbnbs you can always jump around and find something lower if one gets too expensive. On normal 2 year leases where you pay all the expenses, it is more difficult to control costs when monthly expensas are going up at a rapid rate.

i just disagree with this premise, because for the same thing i'm paying $600 USD for, Locals/Expats like you with DNIs can get for 1/2 or 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the price. YOU can always jump around, too. i could have stayed in one of earlyretirement's luxury suites for $2,000 USD a month for the past 9 months if i wanted convenience. but if i had a DNI and could snag a long-term rental i would be saving sooooooooo much money. even if i had to pay the expenses, what's the overall $ saved? if none, why lock-into a 2-year lease? 😉

On normal 2 year leases where you pay all the expenses, it is more difficult to control costs when monthly expensas are going up at a rapid rate.

i don't understand...i would just cancel my contract and leave, paying whatever fees, if it was way more expensive than an Airbnb. what is the cost of a 2-year lease per month for a normal 1-bed/1-bath apartment within 15 mins walk? $200 USD? $300?

but the vast majority of expats end up in Buenos Aires. Not many expats venture out to other smaller cities.

the vast majority of people smoke, drink hard alcohol, don't exercise 15mins per day, don't eat vegetables, and have watched everything on Netflix. these are all choices, just like staying in BsAs. what's the adventure of traveling, if you go to the USA for the first time and never leave New York City? 😛

here it is difficult and expensive to rent a house and not easy to find a PH apartment with no monthly condo fees.

$343 USD full-price credit card on Airbnb for an apartment (guest suite? not sure, just quickly looked) 01-31Dec

Rental unit in Buenos Aires · ★4.59 · 1 bedroom · 2 beds · 1 bath

An excellent location

www.airbnb.com

there are still a billion-gazillion listings in CABA...just checked! once that isn't the case, i say it's time for the thrifty folks to check out other places like Mar Del Plata, La Plata, Bahia Blanca, Cordoba, Mendoza, etc. if Buenos Aires is too crowded 🙂 Expats are already a 1% of the world, so i think more Expats are closer to being flexible than not, with housing and other decisions to make.

regarding those expenses, i see:

Jan2024 125,018 Pesos = ~1000 ARS/Dollar = ~125 bucks
Aug2024 337,326 Pesos = ~1380 ARS/Dollar = ~245 bucks

so a millionaire with dozens of properties in multiple countries had to pay some un-subsidized security guard, pool, cameras, cleaning, elevators, etc. luxury optional costs, in a very nice building that he otherwise has no mortgage/payments on and makes thousands of dollars a year wisely renting it out, and this is supposed to be convincing for people coming to Argentina for the first time??

that, in the worst-case argument to devil's-advocate the removal of subsidies and overall shock-therapy of less gov't regulation, was $120 USD more? but what other things has he saved? with the removal of the Rental Law, less taxes like ITI when buying more properties, and overall more people coming to Argentina now that Peso prices are stable and the government advocates for security and stability, how much more has he made?

and another question to ask is, what was the inflation in Pesos in 2023, and what was that at the Blue Dollar back then? because if his building HOA was also increasing in Pesos (which i suspect it was, 2022-2023, like everything else as the Peronists spent and printed like drunken sailors on their Woke projects), then doesn't that debunk the argument that now there is something unique about the inflation/prices in Argentina? the correct claim would be, then, that Argentina's prices in Pesos have increased 2022-2024, which i think anyone coming here is aware of.

am i missing something? didn't your apartment have a similar inflation 2022-2023 in Pesos?