Is the Expat party in Buenos Aires coming to an end?

[Vince]

Thailand seems to be all the rage. I have heard of more and more people wanting to move there. It just was named the best country in the world to visit.

This Stunning Southeast Asia Destination Was Named The Best Country To Visit In The World

Southeast Asia never ceases to amaze travelers. One stunning Southeast Asian destination was just named the best to visit in the world.

www.traveloffpath.com

And many places now rank it as one of the absolute best cities for Digital Nomads.

New Study Reveals The Top 5 Cities In The World For Digital Nomads In 2024

Digital nomads are always on the lookout for their next base. A New study has revealed the top 5 cities in the world in 2024.

www.traveloffpath.com

Funny timing. This came up on my Tik Tok feed today.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7265414885238918446

 

[Jenn]

Thailand seems to be all the rage. I have heard of more and more people wanting to move there. It just was named the best country in the world to visit.

This Stunning Southeast Asia Destination Was Named The Best Country To Visit In The World

Southeast Asia never ceases to amaze travelers. One stunning Southeast Asian destination was just named the best to visit in the world.

www.traveloffpath.com

And many places now rank it as one of the absolute best cities for Digital Nomads.

New Study Reveals The Top 5 Cities In The World For Digital Nomads In 2024

Digital nomads are always on the lookout for their next base. A New study has revealed the top 5 cities in the world in 2024.

www.traveloffpath.com

I enjoy everything about Thailand except for the weather. The food and culture and people are the best!

 

[amanda8]

Have you calculated the costs of relocating to SEA, or anywhere else for that matter? How does that compare with what you'd spend living in Argentina another year or two?

We don't really know what's going to happen here, but if inflation continues to go down, there's a good chance that things will improve in the coming months. Wouldn't it make sense to wait it out a bit?

Unless, of course, you guys feel it's time to change the scenery, regardless.

After spending some time here in Argentina, I've come to appreciate the warmth of its people and the beauty of its land. Although I once considered the idea of going elsewhere, I've heard some interesting local perspectives on the country's economic future. There seem to be indications that things could improve in the coming months. So, after reflecting, I've decided to stay a bit longer to see how things unfold. Who knows, it could be an exciting experience to witness a positive economic transformation here in Argentina, something that hasn't happened in a long time.

Inflation falling ‘a little faster than expected,’ says Georgieva

Kristalina Georgieva, the head of the International Monetary Fund, says "inflation is coming down faster than expected" in Argentina.

www.batimes.com.ar

 

[Avocado]

After spending some time here in Argentina, I've come to appreciate the warmth of its people and the beauty of its land. Although I once considered the idea of going elsewhere, I've heard some interesting local perspectives on the country's economic future. There seem to be indications that things could improve in the coming months. So, after reflecting, I've decided to stay a bit longer to see how things unfold. Who knows, it could be an exciting experience to witness a positive economic transformation here in Argentina, something that hasn't happened in a long time.

Inflation falling ‘a little faster than expected,’ says Georgieva

Kristalina Georgieva, the head of the International Monetary Fund, says "inflation is coming down faster than expected" in Argentina.

www.batimes.com.ar

150% inflation expected for 2024. That is what it was before Milei took over. Only difference is now everything is 3X the cost.

 

[Uncle Wong]

I agree it's wise to be patient and once you move somewhere, give it a chance to see how things unfold if there are political or economic events that need to play out. I have friends they keep wasting money on airplane tickets trying to find the cheapest and best place. By the time you add up all their wasted expenses from plane tickets, legal bills, waste of money on rental contracts, etc. it's not worth it. They always think the green is greener on the other side.

 

[amanda8]

I've been here for 8 years, I really love this country so I don't want to leave, I have faith that things will get better, maybe not in the short term but I am optimistic because this is my place in the world

 

[GlasgowJohn]

150% inflation expected for 2024. That is what it was before Milei took over. Only difference is now everything is 3X the cost.

Yip 150% is expected - I think it will be less.

if there had been no change in Government I Reckon it would have been close to 3,000%

 

[Wally]

Yip 150% is expected - I think it will be less.

if there had been no change in Government I Reckon it would have been close to 3,000%

Definitely hyper-inflation if Massa won.

Prices are coming down. First time I bought Starbucks coffee and the price is down from last month. Still high but prices heading in the right direction. At the supermarket I see lots of markdowns.

 

[memories]

Yip 150% is expected - I think it will be less.

if there had been no change in Government I Reckon it would have been close to 3,000%

That is what my husband who is in finance tells me. He actually worked in finance for an Argentine company and we lived in Buenos Aires from 2000-2005. He said Milei inherited quite the mess and no doubt hyperinflation would be an issue. He is saying that inflation should slow down with the measures Milei is employing.

I have been lurking on this forum and another forum for many months and appreciate it's existence. Much information and sharing on this site. We understand turmoil and change as during our time there we went from being one of the most expensive cities to becoming one of the cheapest overnight. It was chaotic during the corralito. We lived in Recoleta and loved our time there. We lived on Libertad near the Four Seasons hotel.

At the low we saw 5 Presidents come and go all within a few weeks. My husband was the CFO for a large Argentine corporation and our income was in USD. After the devaluation it worked out for us as it went from 1:1 to almost 4:1 overnight.

From reading these boards BA has changed greatly since then. Things were bad and everyone said they would stay horrible but they improved and when we left in 2005 we were sad to leave. My husband got relocated to the States. We always meant to go back but busy with life. At one point we thought we might live there permanently but had offers too good to pass up with work back in the US. We kept saying we will go back and finally when we planned a trip, the country was locked down during Covid.

We are finally planning to revisit. I would say hang in there as this too shall pass.

 

[Larry]

That is what my husband who is in finance tells me. He actually worked in finance for an Argentine company and we lived in Buenos Aires from 2000-2005. He said Milei inherited quite the mess and no doubt hyperinflation would be an issue. He is saying that inflation should slow down with the measures Milei is employing.

I have been lurking on this forum and another forum for many months and appreciate it's existence. Much information and sharing on this site. We understand turmoil and change as during our time there we went from being one of the most expensive cities to becoming one of the cheapest overnight. It was chaotic during the corralito. We lived in Recoleta and loved our time there. We lived on Libertad near the Four Seasons hotel.

At the low we saw 5 Presidents come and go all within a few weeks. My husband was the CFO for a large Argentine corporation and our income was in USD. After the devaluation it worked out for us as it went from 1:1 to almost 4:1 overnight.

From reading these boards BA has changed greatly since then. Things were bad and everyone said they would stay horrible but they improved and when we left in 2005 we were sad to leave. My husband got relocated to the States. We always meant to go back but busy with life. At one point we thought we might live there permanently but had offers too good to pass up with work back in the US. We kept saying we will go back and finally when we planned a trip, the country was locked down during Covid.

We are finally planning to revisit. I would say hang in there as this too shall pass.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I also arrived the period when you lived here. BA was a much better city back then. I fondly remember 2003 when I first arrived. Now it is depressing and expensive and many things as expensive as first world countries. Many items more expensive than the USA. Now anyone that can has left or will leave Argentina for other cities.

 

[earlyretirement]

That is what my husband who is in finance tells me. He actually worked in finance for an Argentine company and we lived in Buenos Aires from 2000-2005. He said Milei inherited quite the mess and no doubt hyperinflation would be an issue. He is saying that inflation should slow down with the measures Milei is employing.

I have been lurking on this forum and another forum for many months and appreciate it's existence. Much information and sharing on this site. We understand turmoil and change as during our time there we went from being one of the most expensive cities to becoming one of the cheapest overnight. It was chaotic during the corralito. We lived in Recoleta and loved our time there. We lived on Libertad near the Four Seasons hotel.

At the low we saw 5 Presidents come and go all within a few weeks. My husband was the CFO for a large Argentine corporation and our income was in USD. After the devaluation it worked out for us as it went from 1:1 to almost 4:1 overnight.

From reading these boards BA has changed greatly since then. Things were bad and everyone said they would stay horrible but they improved and when we left in 2005 we were sad to leave. My husband got relocated to the States. We always meant to go back but busy with life. At one point we thought we might live there permanently but had offers too good to pass up with work back in the US. We kept saying we will go back and finally when we planned a trip, the country was locked down during Covid.

We are finally planning to revisit. I would say hang in there as this too shall pass.

Thank you for sharing! I first came down to Buenos Aires and I also saw firsthand the transformation from after the crash from it being one of the most expensive major cities to one of the cheapest cities. It was a unique time for Argentina. I feel very fortunate to be able to see that transformation firsthand. I fell in love with Buenos Aires on my first visit and more in love with Buenos Aires today.

Absolutely everyone thought I was totally crazy to start buying up real estate in Buenos Aires after the correlito. A lot of doom and gloom and naysayers but I laid out my thesis how and why things would improve and they did. I was one of the first foreigners who started investing in Argentina at the bottom when no one had any faith in the country.

I feel fortunate to have gotten married in Buenos Aires, had 2 kids that were born in Buenos Aires and spent so many years there.

No doubt it's a difficult country and things move in cycles. But from my experiences, nothing moves up forever and nothing goes down forever. The ones that benefit the most are people that are willing to move in and out during the cycles there. I sold most of my real estate there in 2018/2019 at the top and then waited many years and just started buying again in September in anticipation of a Milei victory.

Things are turning out more or less as I forecasted. No doubt, it's a difficult time for locals and even expats that are living there but inflation seems to be going down and although there are going to be several more months of difficult times, we should see a much better Argentina next year. Real estate prices are already heading up as I forecasted.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I also arrived the period when you lived here. BA was a much better city back then. I fondly remember 2003 when I first arrived. Now it is depressing and expensive and many things as expensive as first world countries. Many items more expensive than the USA. Now anyone that can has left or will leave Argentina for other cities.

Your posts @Larry are always doom and gloom. It sounds like you have also been here a long time and the fact you haven't left BA tells me you probably still like it enough to stay here. Otherwise, you probably would have left already.

Here is just a small list of things that have drastically improved over my 22 years of living and working in Argentina.


- Big Diversity in Restaurants: When I first moved there in 2002/2003 there was almost no diversity in food. Almost all pasta, pizza, steak places. Nothing like you see today with just about any type of food you could ask for. Even finding a good burger or bbq ribs was almost impossible. I would go to Kansas every week to get a good burger or BBQ ribs. It was one of a few places that had American dishes. It's great to see they are still around but no need to go there as much as there are so many great places. It was almost impossible to find good Sushi.

- No Rideshare and only taxis: Fortunately taxis were always great there in BA and there were far more taxis back then. More than London, Paris, and NYC combined. There are just as many drivers on the road now but it's spread out with rideshare companies like Uber, DiDi, Cabify, etc. It has gotten much much better and more convenient today.

- Trash on the Street and no Recycling: Back then there were no recycling or trash bins on the street like you see now. People just threw out trash on the street and you would see the homeless going through the trash. Sometimes they closed the bags again but sometimes they didn't and you would see trash all over the street. It's a much better system today with trash bins on almost every block. It is night and day to how it was before. People still go through them to recycle but it's much neater and efficient and a thing of wonder to see these vs. before.

- Improvement in real estate projects and beautification of properties: There was a tremendous boom in real estate. There were a lot of old and abandoned places or that were not in good condition and over the past 2 decades there has been tremendous investment in older buildings that have been restored or high-rise buildings that went up. My company purchased several hundreds of properties and renovated many of them. Buenos Aires is a much more beautiful city vs. before regardless of what others try to portray. People can claim that gentrification is a negative but many areas greatly improved and that process is continuing today to play out.

- Bike Lanes: There were no bike lanes and it's easy to take them for granted but this was a huge improvement and every time I see people biking I get a smile on my face as none of this existed 20 years ago.

Safety and security: Buenos Aires has always been relatively safe. It's debatable whether it's safer today vs. before. Some could probably argue it's worse now. But I have to tell you that it's much better than a lot of metro areas in the USA right now. For perspective, go to many major cities in the USA now and you will see many things locked up at CVS stores or Target stores. It's a joke in some cities like San Francisco in some stores as everything is locked up. Yet even with 250% annual inflation, you see things civilized in Buenos Aires at almost any store.

Transportation continuing to improve: While it's sad to hear about the train crash today, many transportation continues to improve in Buenos Aires from newer buses to expanded subway system and routes. When I moved to Buenos Aires there wasn't much of a subway network but they have expanded it and it's much better. Also, they changed the traffic patterns on many streets since I first moved there so there are dedicated bus lanes now and traffic flows better vs. before.

Banking and financial system improvements: After the correlito it was really horrible! Absolutely NO trust in the banking system and cash was the only solution but things have greatly improved over the past few years. Especially the last 2 years with the MEP rate and being able to use credit cards as tourists. This is wonderful for tourism. Before it was only cash and huge differences with white and black markets. As well, credit cards are widely accepted almost everywhere now. This is a drastic improvement. One thing I remember back then that was better compared to today is I could withdraw the equivalent of $400 USD at the time in pesos. 100 peso notes were worth about $35 USD back then. Now they are worthless and the withdrawal limits are painfully low.

Price reductions and more selection in electronics: I have to admit it's pathetic compared to the USA and prices are very high still but 20+ years ago it was obscene how much all electronics cost. I remember buying LCD TV's for an insane amount of money but while somethings are still crazy expensive you can buy LED TV's now for a decent price. There was no Mercado Libre and that in and of itself is a HUGE improvement. I can't tell you how often I use Mercado Libre now and how well and efficient it works.

Rappi!: There was no Rappi and I can't tell you how efficient it is now. I had a full-time maid that came to my place daily. I didn't want a live in maid but I had a maid that came every day to clean and cook and sometimes I would still want to buy my own food but it was so inefficient with the lines at the stores. Now it is so easy to order anything with Rappi and with Rappi Prime it's crazy to think about ordering anything and getting it within 10 minutes. This is a huge improvement vs. before.

Some come on here all the time and talk about how Buenos Aires is worse off vs. the past but I can speak from experience that the Buenos Aires of today is a much better place and I can almost guarantee that Buenos Aires 10 years from now will be even better. It is continuing to improve upon itself. It's a very special city with energy that I have not experienced before and I have been to almost 600 cities around the world in over 80 countries.

I have seen a lot of economic cycles in Argentina and I'd like to think I have a better pulse on the city vs. most from owning many corporations there, building a hotel and buying and selling several hundreds of properties there. I've seen and done a lot there and I'd say don't give up on Buenos Aires.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Thank you for sharing! I first came down to Buenos Aires and I also saw firsthand the transformation from after the crash from it being one of the most expensive major cities to one of the cheapest cities. It was a unique time for Argentina. I feel very fortunate to be able to see that transformation firsthand. I fell in love with Buenos Aires on my first visit and more in love with Buenos Aires today.

Absolutely everyone thought I was totally crazy to start buying up real estate in Buenos Aires after the correlito. A lot of doom and gloom and naysayers but I laid out my thesis how and why things would improve and they did. I was one of the first foreigners who started investing in Argentina at the bottom when no one had any faith in the country.

I feel fortunate to have gotten married in Buenos Aires, had 2 kids that were born in Buenos Aires and spent so many years there.

No doubt it's a difficult country and things move in cycles. But from my experiences, nothing moves up forever and nothing goes down forever. The ones that benefit the most are people that are willing to move in and out during the cycles there. I sold most of my real estate there in 2018/2019 at the top and then waited many years and just started buying again in September in anticipation of a Milei victory.

Things are turning out more or less as I forecasted. No doubt, it's a difficult time for locals and even expats that are living there but inflation seems to be going down and although there are going to be several more months of difficult times, we should see a much better Argentina next year. Real estate prices are already heading up as I forecasted.


Your posts @Larry are always doom and gloom. It sounds like you have also been here a long time and the fact you haven't left BA tells me you probably still like it enough to stay here. Otherwise, you probably would have left already.

Here is just a small list of things that have drastically improved over my 22 years of living and working in Argentina.


- Big Diversity in Restaurants: When I first moved there in 2002/2003 there was almost no diversity in food. Almost all pasta, pizza, steak places. Nothing like you see today with just about any type of food you could ask for. Even finding a good burger or bbq ribs was almost impossible. I would go to Kansas every week to get a good burger or BBQ ribs. It was one of a few places that had American dishes. It's great to see they are still around but no need to go there as much as there are so many great places. It was almost impossible to find good Sushi.

- No Rideshare and only taxis: Fortunately taxis were always great there in BA and there were far more taxis back then. More than London, Paris, and NYC combined. There are just as many drivers on the road now but it's spread out with rideshare companies like Uber, DiDi, Cabify, etc. It has gotten much much better and more convenient today.

- Trash on the Street and no Recycling: Back then there were no recycling or trash bins on the street like you see now. People just threw out trash on the street and you would see the homeless going through the trash. Sometimes they closed the bags again but sometimes they didn't and you would see trash all over the street. It's a much better system today with trash bins on almost every block. It is night and day to how it was before. People still go through them to recycle but it's much neater and efficient and a thing of wonder to see these vs. before.

- Improvement in real estate projects and beautification of properties: There was a tremendous boom in real estate. There were a lot of old and abandoned places or that were not in good condition and over the past 2 decades there has been tremendous investment in older buildings that have been restored or high-rise buildings that went up. My company purchased several hundreds of properties and renovated many of them. Buenos Aires is a much more beautiful city vs. before regardless of what others try to portray. People can claim that gentrification is a negative but many areas greatly improved and that process is continuing today to play out.

- Bike Lanes: There were no bike lanes and it's easy to take them for granted but this was a huge improvement and every time I see people biking I get a smile on my face as none of this existed 20 years ago.

Safety and security: Buenos Aires has always been relatively safe. It's debatable whether it's safer today vs. before. Some could probably argue it's worse now. But I have to tell you that it's much better than a lot of metro areas in the USA right now. For perspective, go to many major cities in the USA now and you will see many things locked up at CVS stores or Target stores. It's a joke in some cities like San Francisco in some stores as everything is locked up. Yet even with 250% annual inflation, you see things civilized in Buenos Aires at almost any store.

Transportation continuing to improve: While it's sad to hear about the train crash today, many transportation continues to improve in Buenos Aires from newer buses to expanded subway system and routes. When I moved to Buenos Aires there wasn't much of a subway network but they have expanded it and it's much better. Also, they changed the traffic patterns on many streets since I first moved there so there are dedicated bus lanes now and traffic flows better vs. before.

Banking and financial system improvements: After the correlito it was really horrible! Absolutely NO trust in the banking system and cash was the only solution but things have greatly improved over the past few years. Especially the last 2 years with the MEP rate and being able to use credit cards as tourists. This is wonderful for tourism. Before it was only cash and huge differences with white and black markets. As well, credit cards are widely accepted almost everywhere now. This is a drastic improvement. One thing I remember back then that was better compared to today is I could withdraw the equivalent of $400 USD at the time in pesos. 100 peso notes were worth about $35 USD back then. Now they are worthless and the withdrawal limits are painfully low.

Price reductions and more selection in electronics: I have to admit it's pathetic compared to the USA and prices are very high still but 20+ years ago it was obscene how much all electronics cost. I remember buying LCD TV's for an insane amount of money but while somethings are still crazy expensive you can buy LED TV's now for a decent price. There was no Mercado Libre and that in and of itself is a HUGE improvement. I can't tell you how often I use Mercado Libre now and how well and efficient it works.

Rappi!: There was no Rappi and I can't tell you how efficient it is now. I had a full-time maid that came to my place daily. I didn't want a live in maid but I had a maid that came every day to clean and cook and sometimes I would still want to buy my own food but it was so inefficient with the lines at the stores. Now it is so easy to order anything with Rappi and with Rappi Prime it's crazy to think about ordering anything and getting it within 10 minutes. This is a huge improvement vs. before.

Some come on here all the time and talk about how Buenos Aires is worse off vs. the past but I can speak from experience that the Buenos Aires of today is a much better place and I can almost guarantee that Buenos Aires 10 years from now will be even better. It is continuing to improve upon itself. It's a very special city with energy that I have not experienced before and I have been to almost 600 cities around the world in over 80 countries.

I have seen a lot of economic cycles in Argentina and I'd like to think I have a better pulse on the city vs. most from owning many corporations there, building a hotel and buying and selling several hundreds of properties there. I've seen and done a lot there and I'd say don't give up on Buenos Aires.

Thanks for sharing this. What a great list of improvements and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

[Vince]

I agree with you. I haven't been here as long as you @earlyretirement but I agree with what you mentioned. BA today is better than many years ago.

 

[earlyretirement]

I got a laugh today when I saw this news. I know Amlo was joking but there sure are a LOT of Americans that moved to Mexico over the past few years to escape the USA. I predict more and more will head to other places including Argentina over the next few years.

AMLO's jokes about limiting visas for US citizens were all in good fun, the president confirms

Mexican President López Obrador, or AMLO, confirmed that his jokes about limiting visas for Americans in Mexico were all in good fun.

mexiconewsdaily.com

 

[JonJLA]

I got a laugh today when I saw this news. I know Amlo was joking but there sure are a LOT of Americans that moved to Mexico over the past few years to escape the USA. I predict more and more will head to other places including Argentina over the next few years.

AMLO's jokes about limiting visas for US citizens were all in good fun, the president confirms

Mexican President López Obrador, or AMLO, confirmed that his jokes about limiting visas for Americans in Mexico were all in good fun.

mexiconewsdaily.com

Your laughing but Canada is proposing exit taxes! And our Governor today said California might do the same!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1787196426247655560

 

[roam around]

It still costs a LOT less to retire in Argentina vs. States or other places. Argentina $282,989 USD vs. $601,490 USD in States.

 

[Vince]

It still costs a LOT less to retire in Argentina vs. States or other places. Argentina $282,989 USD vs. $601,490 USD in States.

View attachment 5526

Argentina is definitely LESS than the USA assuming you have a paid off place. I would have a hard time believing these amounts would be enough to comfortably retire however.

 

[ultraviolet]

Argentina is definitely LESS than the USA assuming you have a paid off place. I would have a hard time believing these amounts would be enough to comfortably retire however.

I just posted about this. Yep. Still much cheaper than the States. Compare major cities in the US and BA and other cities here are affordable compared to back home.

 

[Vince]

How do they calculate that?

I think all of those things are totally subjective. Also, with inflation a buck isn't worth what it was used to so I doubt these are too accurate. But I see various things online and I usually shake my head. However, I read that many don't have anything besides social security. I'm not sure how they get by.

 

[Wally]

Argentina is definitely LESS than the USA assuming you have a paid off place. I would have a hard time believing these amounts would be enough to comfortably retire however.

Still to be fair, prices have gone WAY up here in a short amount of time. I know prices probably will never go back to those levels. But I ordered a large pizza the other night and it was about $15 USD or 15,600 pesos. I'm sure I can get a pizza for the same price in the States at many places. Food prices have gone way up. I see many restaurants really dead now. Many probably will go bust this year.