Is the Expat party in Buenos Aires coming to an end?

[IrishLad]

In Argentina, universities can continue to offer free education to those with low incomes, but individuals with the financial means should contribute to the costs. These charges would be minimal compared to tuition fees in the USA. Additionally, there is a question of fairness in why Argentine citizens should bear the burden of funding the education of foreigners who come to Argentina solely for the advantage of free education. Reforming these aspects is necessary.

University education in Argentina comes at a cost, with taxpayers supporting the expenses. Those who do not attend university (all taxpayers) contribute financially to enable others to pursue higher education. Those fortunate enough to benefit from free university education should appreciate the taxpayers who make it possible. It is important to avoid discrimination based on the financial status of one's parents.


In a financially struggling country, it is morally justified to request contributions from those with the means to pay. Building a sense of community is crucial, emphasizing collective support over individual interests. In the UK, where university education involves a financial commitment, the repayment system is designed to be reasonable, particularly when compared to income levels (with no repayment if earnings fall below a certain threshold).
Labeling those who raise such questions as xenophobic is a disservice to constructive debate. Here's a brief list of EU countries often considered "xenophobic" that also do not provide free university education to students from outside the EU:

• UK
• France
• Finland
• Italy
• Netherlands
• Spain
• Norway
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• Denmark

 

[David]

University education in Argentina comes at a cost, with taxpayers supporting the expenses. Those who do not attend university (all taxpayers) contribute financially to enable others to pursue higher education. Those fortunate enough to benefit from free university education should appreciate the taxpayers who make it possible. It is important to avoid discrimination based on the financial status of one's parents.


In a financially struggling country, it is morally justified to request contributions from those with the means to pay. Building a sense of community is crucial, emphasizing collective support over individual interests. In the UK, where university education involves a financial commitment, the repayment system is designed to be reasonable, particularly when compared to income levels (with no repayment if earnings fall below a certain threshold).
Labeling those who raise such questions as xenophobic is a disservice to constructive debate. Here's a brief list of EU countries often considered "xenophobic" that also do not provide free university education to students from outside the EU:

• UK
• France
• Finland
• Italy
• Netherlands
• Spain
• Norway
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• Denmark

VERY few things in life are truly free. Usually someone is paying or subsidizing the cost of it.

 

[Jtee125]

University education in Argentina comes at a cost, with taxpayers supporting the expenses. Those who do not attend university (all taxpayers) contribute financially to enable others to pursue higher education. Those fortunate enough to benefit from free university education should appreciate the taxpayers who make it possible. It is important to avoid discrimination based on the financial status of one's parents.


In a financially struggling country, it is morally justified to request contributions from those with the means to pay. Building a sense of community is crucial, emphasizing collective support over individual interests. In the UK, where university education involves a financial commitment, the repayment system is designed to be reasonable, particularly when compared to income levels (with no repayment if earnings fall below a certain threshold).
Labeling those who raise such questions as xenophobic is a disservice to constructive debate. Here's a brief list of EU countries often considered "xenophobic" that also do not provide free university education to students from outside the EU:

• UK
• France
• Finland
• Italy
• Netherlands
• Spain
• Norway
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• Denmark

I’m not sure that the UK tuition fees work terribly fairly. It is fair on lower earners for sure, but for those that can afford to pay tuition fees outright get a very big discount compared to those that can’t and accrue a much larger debt by the time they’ve repaid it. It’s a graduate tax in all but name and is much kinder to those with means to pay immediately. NB: I was the first year of 9k tuition fees and prioritised paying it off ASAP following graduation because the rate was so high and I’d certainly repay it in full before 30 years.

In any case, I think tertiary education should be taxpayer funded and free at the point of use. A well educated society is a better society

 

[Tim Joe]

I’m not sure that the UK tuition fees work terribly fairly. It is fair on lower earners for sure, but for those that can afford to pay tuition fees outright get a very big discount compared to those that can’t and accrue a much larger debt by the time they’ve repaid it. It’s a graduate tax in all but name and is much kinder to those with means to pay immediately. NB: I was the first year of 9k tuition fees and prioritised paying it off ASAP following graduation because the rate was so high and I’d certainly repay it in full before 30 years.

In any case, I think tertiary education should be taxpayer funded and free at the point of use. A well educated society is a better society

Can you elaborate on what you mean by a significant discount? Regarding student loans, they are subject to the inflation rate (RPI), historically staying below 1% for several years. However, even if inflation and RPI increase, the loan remains proportionate due to the overall inflation of wages and property values. In response to the UK's elevated inflation, the RPI was capped below the inflation rate, ensuring a financial advantage. Regardless of the rate, monthly payments remain unaffected. The advisable early repayment strategy mainly applies to high earners, given the additional 3% applied between £28k and £50k (e.g., 1.8% at £38k).

Considering the dropout rate, if education were free, individuals would bear the cost. Moreover, many people possess degrees unrelated to their work or unnecessary for their professions. The existence of discounts (e.g., travel, social) and loans at virtually 0% interest with RPI parity, funded by taxpayers, adds another layer to the discussion.

This situation seems to suggest a desire for increased lifetime earnings, with the expectation that others will bear the financial burden.

 

[Jtee125]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by a significant discount? Regarding student loans, they are subject to the inflation rate (RPI), historically staying below 1% for several years. However, even if inflation and RPI increase, the loan remains proportionate due to the overall inflation of wages and property values. In response to the UK's elevated inflation, the RPI was capped below the inflation rate, ensuring a financial advantage. Regardless of the rate, monthly payments remain unaffected. The advisable early repayment strategy mainly applies to high earners, given the additional 3% applied between £28k and £50k (e.g., 1.8% at £38k).

Considering the dropout rate, if education were free, individuals would bear the cost. Moreover, many people possess degrees unrelated to their work or unnecessary for their professions. The existence of discounts (e.g., travel, social) and loans at virtually 0% interest with RPI parity, funded by taxpayers, adds another layer to the discussion.

This situation seems to suggest a desire for increased lifetime earnings, with the expectation that others will bear the financial burden.

It perhaps may have changed in recent years, I paid mine off in 2020 I believe but the rate then was RPI + up to 3% salary dependent. I’d agree that it would be fair if it were flat RPI and if that’s the case these days then I agree that that’s fair. In fact, based on your numbers it certainly seems a lot fairer than it was 2017-2020 as I recall. With the 3% on top of RPI that was effectively subsidising those who were paying outright.

I can understand disagreeing with believing tertiary education should be free at the point of use but if not then the system should at least be seamlessly progressive and it seems to be more so lately with the numbers you gave.

Also, I reserve the right to be a little irked to be the first year of plan 2 as the difference with the prior year was huge not only in fees but repayment terms

 

[Man on the Moon]

I believed the expat party had concluded around 2012. The years after the coralito were bustling with backpackers, crustpunks, couch surfers, and optimistic dreamers. I recall the artistic couple garnering international press for their eclectic high-rise apartment, frequent gatherings with newcomers who had invested in $35,000 apartments in Palermo, the presence of global graffiti artists, and more. However, all of that has disappeared, now a memory from fifteen years ago.

Those days were amazing! It did get a bit annoying for a little while but it was still fun being at the crossroads of the chaotic expat planet. Most of the posts then were about where to take relatives in town for a juicy cheap steak.

 

[Finance Prof]

Massa's campaign banners advocated for the protection of free public health and education. However, a significant number of K's and Peronistas are affiliated with private health plans for themselves and their families. Additionally, they opt for private schools and universities for their children. This raises questions about whether the public systems primarily serve the underprivileged.

 

[BuySellBA]

Massa or Milei fan. One thing is clear. Real estate prices are going to start going up drastically over the next few years. They have fallen the past 4.5 years and it will make up all of that and go higher up. If you're an expat you can't expect to stay in Buenos Aires over the long run without buying something. Lock in at a low price now. You can buy a really nice new construction in Palermo for under $150,000.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

everything the federal gov't touches turns to caca.

 

[earlyretirement]

everything the federal gov't touches turns to caca.

Amen brother. So very true!

 

[Finance Prof]

Massa's campaign banners advocated for the protection of free public health and education. However, a significant number of K's and Peronistas are affiliated with private health plans for themselves and their families. Additionally, they opt for private schools and universities for their children. This raises questions about whether the public systems primarily serve the underprivileged.

This doesn’t seem unique to Argentina though. Free universal health and education can and probably has to exist alongside private and that seems preferable than having only private.

I think you’d struggle to find a country where the children of the ruling class aren’t predominantly at a private school, either domestically nor internationally.

 

[sergio]

This doesn’t seem unique to Argentina though. Free universal health and education can and probably has to exist alongside private and that seems preferable than having only private.

I think you’d struggle to find a country where the children of the ruling class aren’t predominantly at a private school, either domestically nor internationally.

Obama enrolled his daughters in a private Quaker school favoured by VIPs; Jimmy Carter enroled his daughter at a Washinhgton DC public (i.e.'state') school to much media fanfare. After a month he withdrew her and sent her to the elite National Cathedral School. The NYT buried the story in one partgraph deep inside the paper.

 

[Huge Hurry]

This doesn’t seem unique to Argentina though. Free universal health and education can and probably has to exist alongside private and that seems preferable than having only private.

I think you’d struggle to find a country where the children of the ruling class aren’t predominantly at a private school, either domestically nor internationally.

Then it's OK everybody does it! Are private schools better? Private care/schooling is for those that can afford it! Conclusion: Politics pays..!

 

[joel]

Have you encountered anything resembling a concrete plan? It appears that Milei merely believes eliminating government intervention in the economy and other sectors will miraculously lead to improvement.

Moreover, wasn't Macri also aiming to establish a more business-friendly environment? We're all too familiar with the outcome of that narrative.

The plan is let the free market work. Government central planning has given you 200 percent inflation. If government planning/spending worked, the whole world would be rich.

 

[Wally]

The plan is let the free market work. Government central planning has given you 200 percent inflation. If government planning/spending worked, the whole world would be rich.

Totally agree. Some of these Massa supporters grasp at straws as if someone can have a plan and magically have it working over night. The country is a lot of issues and still will for a while. Milei is lauded by the international community. Look at the stock/bond and just about everything else. The real estate market is going up and a flurry of activity.

Milei is making peace with China and Brazil and in the USA now making the rounds. He is realistic that dollarization can't happen now and making responsible selections. People assume that Massa would have been elected and ALL these issues wouldn't have continued. It's not realistic. Massa supporters are sore losers.

 

[Wally]

Then it's OK everybody does it! Are private schools better? Private care/schooling is for those that can afford it! Conclusion: Politics pays..!

Have you ever met a POOR politician? LOL. Nope.

 

[Che Vos]

I think that once Milei starts on December 10 prices will rise drastically. My friends are telling me up to 25% rise so I'm trying to brace for that increase. Times are tough enough.

But to be fair I realize that the same thing probably would happen under Massa who I wanted to win. I think with Milei it will be sped up. The amount of inflation that was artificially held down is going to be scary for us locals. All of you have US dollars so you are protected but we are not. Or see how the US dollar turns out. What if inflation goes up and the peso rate for your blue dollar goes down? I don't know what will happen.

 

[Pink Panther]

I think that once Milei starts on December 10 prices will rise drastically. My friends are telling me up to 25% rise so I'm trying to brace for that increase. Times are tough enough.

But to be fair I realize that the same thing probably would happen under Massa who I wanted to win. I think with Milei it will be sped up. The amount of inflation that was artificially held down is going to be scary for us locals. All of you have US dollars so you are protected but we are not. Or see how the US dollar turns out. What if inflation goes up and the peso rate for your blue dollar goes down? I don't know what will happen.

What you mention Che Vos is the worst case scenario for people like me! I live in Buenos Aires and moved here a few years ago. I should have purchased an apartment but didn't so I'm at the mercy of having to find a place every year. My landlord already told me when the lease ends they are going to do Airbnb unless I want to pay 75% more than the USD price that I was paying. I can't afford to pay that but I might have to as I can't find any decent long term rentals and Airbnb prices are skyrocketing.

Prices on everything in pesos is going up and now the amount I'm getting for the blue dollar is going DOWN since Milei won. So this is an ugly trend for people like me that have USD income. I was living it up and I should have purchased something and I might be forced into it now as I can't find a city that offers everything BA does. I can't fathom ever moving back to the USA and I can't afford to live there either now.

At least in BA I don't have to own a car, my utilities are almost nothing. Fast internet and cheap food. I only go home once a year to visit my family and I dread it as it's too expensive to do simple things like rent a car, fill up the gas tank and dine out. It's prohibitively expensive.

This reminds me too much of what happened while Macri was president. I selfishly wanted Massa to win so I could live here cheap. I know it's probably the wrong attitude but it's probably the same as many expats here that are living cheap.

Milei hasn't even started yet and he is already in the USA asking for money already. This is going to be a painful 4 years for expats like us.

 

[Avocado]

What you mention Che Vos is the worst case scenario for people like me! I live in Buenos Aires and moved here a few years ago. I should have purchased an apartment but didn't so I'm at the mercy of having to find a place every year. My landlord already told me when the lease ends they are going to do Airbnb unless I want to pay 75% more than the USD price that I was paying. I can't afford to pay that but I might have to as I can't find any decent long term rentals and Airbnb prices are skyrocketing.

Prices on everything in pesos is going up and now the amount I'm getting for the blue dollar is going DOWN since Milei won. So this is an ugly trend for people like me that have USD income. I was living it up and I should have purchased something and I might be forced into it now as I can't find a city that offers everything BA does. I can't fathom ever moving back to the USA and I can't afford to live there either now.

At least in BA I don't have to own a car, my utilities are almost nothing. Fast internet and cheap food. I only go home once a year to visit my family and I dread it as it's too expensive to do simple things like rent a car, fill up the gas tank and dine out. It's prohibitively expensive.

This reminds me too much of what happened while Macri was president. I selfishly wanted Massa to win so I could live here cheap. I know it's probably the wrong attitude but it's probably the same as many expats here that are living cheap.

Milei hasn't even started yet and he is already in the USA asking for money already. This is going to be a painful 4 years for expats like us.

I agree. I also am renting and it's very painful. Milei says he will change the law and I hope the long term rental market gets working again. There is almost NO rentals on the market now. People like me are doomed from having to deal with corrupt owners and landlords that keep raising prices. It's not fair. Milei will be bad for Argentina. I see more police in the street with more of an attitude. The people used to control and have power and the police were scared but I notice now the police with smug attitudes feeling like they own the place now. Am I alone?

 

[Betsy Ross]

What you mention Che Vos is the worst case scenario for people like me! I live in Buenos Aires and moved here a few years ago. I should have purchased an apartment but didn't so I'm at the mercy of having to find a place every year. My landlord already told me when the lease ends they are going to do Airbnb unless I want to pay 75% more than the USD price that I was paying. I can't afford to pay that but I might have to as I can't find any decent long term rentals and Airbnb prices are skyrocketing.

Prices on everything in pesos is going up and now the amount I'm getting for the blue dollar is going DOWN since Milei won. So this is an ugly trend for people like me that have USD income. I was living it up and I should have purchased something and I might be forced into it now as I can't find a city that offers everything BA does. I can't fathom ever moving back to the USA and I can't afford to live there either now.

At least in BA I don't have to own a car, my utilities are almost nothing. Fast internet and cheap food. I only go home once a year to visit my family and I dread it as it's too expensive to do simple things like rent a car, fill up the gas tank and dine out. It's prohibitively expensive.

This reminds me too much of what happened while Macri was president. I selfishly wanted Massa to win so I could live here cheap. I know it's probably the wrong attitude but it's probably the same as many expats here that are living cheap.

Milei hasn't even started yet and he is already in the USA asking for money already. This is going to be a painful 4 years for expats like us.

Yeah and things were so perfect and going so sell under Massa! This is hilarious. You all act as if Argentina was on a great trajectory under Massa and all the others. I thank my lucky stars I don't have to worry about rent or moving and have a place to live. Some of you expats come across as cry babies and opportunistic that want to see Argentina and its citizens suffer all so you can eat cheap steak.

Probably the only good thing about Argentina getting more expensive is seeing many whiny expats complaining about their expensive Airbnbs having to go back to the cold expensive wasteland that is the USA now. And the really funny thing is that Trump will most likely be President for when you all have to go back. Ha!