Wooohoooo!!!!! One PR down, one to go!

[Darksider415]

Congratulations. What do you mean extra-Mercosur? Are you holding a passport or residency from a Mercosur country? or since you married (in Argentina) someone from Mercosur country this made you eligible?

extra-mercosur - From outside of Mercosur.

I was eligible for PR because my wife is Brazilian, and under Ley 26.240, Brazilians have a right to permanent residency in Argentina.

 

[Oatmeal]

extra-mercosur - From outside of Mercosur.

I was eligible for PR because my wife is Brazilian, and under Ley 26.240, Brazilians have a right to permanent residency in Argentina.

Thanks, do you mind I message you in private about this?

 

[StatusNomadicus]

IDtramite

interesting, i'll add to my write-up links. unfortunately:

1. Migraciones gives an "Expediente" number which is 9 digits #####-2024
2. the Residency results in a "Disposicion" number that's 6 digits
3. and the MiTramite link https://mitramite.renaper.gob.ar/ requires 11 digits



the explanation on that page says "El número de ID está en la constancia de solicitud de trámite" or "the ID number is on your Constancia" - and the WhatsApp bot chat just links to your link MiTramite - so i suppose this is for people who go physically to ReNaPer, since you'd get a paper from them. but for Migraciones' residencies it seems to be auto-generated, so going in-person might not do anything?

...and the person i'm helping (so that when my residency is approved, i know how the process works) doesn't have a Constancia, only an approval letter (attached).

i guess the next step is finding out how the hell you get a Constancia from/for ReNaPer

Hablar con agente and proceed from there.

since they already responded on Facebook to wait 15 days, i'll wait so that this person i'm helping doesn't get flagged as annoying or something

extra-Mercosur?

@Oatmeal i think Extra-MerCoSur means "No-MerCoSur" but various links use the terms. interchangeably?

Estudiar en Argentina

Para venir a estudiar a la Argentina te mostramos los pasos a seguir.

www.argentina.gob.ar

Cambio de Categoría para extranjero no MERCOSUR por hijo argentino o radicado

Obtener una radicación definitiva en el país para ciudadanos extranjeros extra MERCOSUR.

www.argentina.gob.ar

i'm not 100% but when i read it, it means to be "everyone else in the world other than Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Venezuela?, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Peru, Surinam" (so when i met an Uber driver from Panama, we had it in common that even though he was closer to Argentina than the USA and was a native Spanish speaker, he still had to take the same process as someone from the USA, Mexico, Turkey, Japan, Russia, etc.)

MERCOSUR Countries - MERCOSUR

¿Cuáles son los países del MERCOSUR? ¿Cuáles son Estados Partes y cuáles Estados Asociados? ¿Cuál es la diferencia? ¿Puede haber nuevos miembros?

www.mercosur.int

i'll update in a couple weeks!

 

[Darksider415]

i guess the next step is finding out how the hell you get a Constancia from/for ReNaPer

To get the ID Tramite number from ReNaPer, you'll go through the following with their WhatsApp bot:
Option E (Estado del Tramite)
Option A (Hablar con agente)

After that, you'll need your full name and the 26 digit numero de boleta prenumerada. Then, they'll give you the ID Tramite.

 

[Jakoval]

interesting, i'll add to my write-up links. unfortunately:

1. Migraciones gives an "Expediente" number which is 9 digits #####-2024
2. the Residency results in a "Disposicion" number that's 6 digits
3. and the MiTramite link https://mitramite.renaper.gob.ar/ requires 11 digits



the explanation on that page says "El número de ID está en la constancia de solicitud de trámite" or "the ID number is on your Constancia" - and the WhatsApp bot chat just links to your link MiTramite - so i suppose this is for people who go physically to ReNaPer, since you'd get a paper from them. but for Migraciones' residencies it seems to be auto-generated, so going in-person might not do anything?

...and the person i'm helping (so that when my residency is approved, i know how the process works) doesn't have a Constancia, only an approval letter (attached).

i guess the next step is finding out how the hell you get a Constancia from/for ReNaPer


since they already responded on Facebook to wait 15 days, i'll wait so that this person i'm helping doesn't get flagged as annoying or something



@Oatmeal i think Extra-MerCoSur means "No-MerCoSur" but various links use the terms. interchangeably?

Estudiar en Argentina

Para venir a estudiar a la Argentina te mostramos los pasos a seguir.

www.argentina.gob.ar

Cambio de Categoría para extranjero no MERCOSUR por hijo argentino o radicado

Obtener una radicación definitiva en el país para ciudadanos extranjeros extra MERCOSUR.

www.argentina.gob.ar

i'm not 100% but when i read it, it means to be "everyone else in the world other than Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Venezuela?, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Peru, Surinam" (so when i met an Uber driver from Panama, we had it in common that even though he was closer to Argentina than the USA and was a native Spanish speaker, he still had to take the same process as someone from the USA, Mexico, Turkey, Japan, Russia, etc.)

MERCOSUR Countries - MERCOSUR

¿Cuáles son los países del MERCOSUR? ¿Cuáles son Estados Partes y cuáles Estados Asociados? ¿Cuál es la diferencia? ¿Puede haber nuevos miembros?

www.mercosur.int

i'll update in a couple weeks!

The system will add 00 in front of the 9-digit IDtramite automatically once you input it in the box. Below is what I looked up for a friend of mine who isn't so tramite savvy.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

the 26 digit numero de boleta prenumerada

no idea what this is, but the person only has a passport number, expediente number, and disposicion number, so i think perhaps the 15-day wait is part of whatever the next number issuance is...

the 9-digit IDtramite

also no idea what this is - the acceptance letter only contains the aforementioned numbers, and using leading Zeroes on any of the numbers doesn't find anything.i believe there is another document that will happen after the 15 days. but i can't (as usual in these processes) find any FAQ or blog or forum post about when/how this happens, from Residency approved to DNI issued

 

[Darksider415]

Okay, the numero de boleta prenumerada would've been received at the very beginning of the process, for they were running around to pay everything in four different places. It'll be in a PDF file labeled "Boleta_Renaper_<long number>.pdf in their email.

You'll need that 26 digit number to write to ReNaPer to ask for the ID Tramite, which is the number you'll need to track the DNI.

 

[Darksider415]

If it hasn't been made clear yet, do NOT delete or lose anything sent to you until you've got the DNI physically in hand, because you will need things from the day you filed the paperwork on RaDeX...

 

[Jakoval]

no idea what this is, but the person only has a passport number, expediente number, and disposicion number, so i think perhaps the 15-day wait is part of whatever the next number issuance is...


also no idea what this is - the acceptance letter only contains the aforementioned numbers, and using leading Zeroes on any of the numbers doesn't find anything.i believe there is another document that will happen after the 15 days. but i can't (as usual in these processes) find any FAQ or blog or forum post about when/how this happens, from Residency approved to DNI issued

When your expediente status is changed from whatever previously to RESUELTO, you need to wait probably a week or two to be able to request IDtramite on Renaper's Whatspp channel.

 

[import export]

If it hasn't been made clear yet, do NOT delete or lose anything sent to you until you've got the DNI physically in hand, because you will need things from the day you filed the paperwork on RaDeX...

Jesus reading this thread reminds me of going through a war zone. I recall reading of someone that was going through this process and lost some paperwork and further delayed things. Between this and seeing some videos and posts online it sounds like a complete sh*t show.

 

[Darksider415]

When your expediente status is changed from whatever previously to RESUELTO, you need to wait probably a week or two to be able to request IDtramite on Renaper's Whatspp channel.

For what it's worth, I was able to get mine the same day.

 

[Jakoval]

For what it's worth, I was able to get mine the same day.

I tried to get it the same day right after the expediente turned RESUELTO but this was the reply from Renaper:

 

[StatusNomadicus]

"Boleta_Renaper_<long number>.pdf in their email.

You'll need that 26 digit number to write to ReNaPer to ask for the ID Tramite, which is the number you'll need to track the DNI.

got it, how confusing! i'll keep building my write-up on this stuff, thanks for the contributions. i will try this after the 15 days i was instructed (for the person i'm helping).

a complete sh*t show.

it for sure is one of those 'you just have to know that' things - for me, coming to Argentina and just using internet research to navigate the Immigrations process, i for sure found that 95% of blogs and websites (even lawyer ones) are wrong or already outdated. it's really only on the old censored forum where i found some of you guys, and here where there are some oldtimers, where i could get answers to some specifics. i think most people have friends/family to help navigate, but then most people don't pass-on the knowledge online.

i'm at least happy to report that the pessimistic view here by @Alby has actually been fairly improved in 2024:

Rentista visa and some other questions

You can apply (with the help of an attorney who knows what he's doing) for Argentine citizenship soon after your arrival.This way. if you overstay your tourist permit, you will be protected from deportation. According th Bajo_Cero2, the Spanih language requiremnt has been eliminated or at the...

baexpats.org

no longer is the Rentier just a dead-end...i'm even trying the hardest type of Savings Rentista, and i have gotten 2 Precarias now and actual instructions to get my 1-year Temporary Residency (albeit on terms i don't like, and i'm protesting in a letter to the supervisor). if i deposited 14.4 million Pesos into my Banco Nacion account, i would likely already have been awarded a 1-year residency (but i know someone who only had to deposit one month, so i'm fighting it).

i hope Milei's team can Afuera a lot of this stuff and just let Expats invest here. Argentina will boom like USA did in the 1900s. we are all stil VERY VERY early (it's annoying as hell to be here, still)

 

[Darksider415]

no longer is the Rentier just a dead-end...i'm even trying the hardest type of Savings Rentista, and i have gotten 2 Precarias now and actual instructions to get my 1-year Temporary Residency (albeit on terms i don't like, and i'm protesting in a letter to the supervisor). if i deposited 14.4 million Pesos into my Banco Nacion account, i would likely already have been awarded a 1-year residency (but i know someone who only had to deposit one month, so i'm fighting it).

i hope Milei's team can Afuera a lot of this stuff and just let Expats invest here. Argentina will boom like USA did in the 1900s. we are all stil VERY VERY early (it's annoying as hell to be here, still)

FWIW, I think Milei's team is working on making a lot of the hoops go afuera; we're still in the early days where they're bringing people around to the new way of doing things, though. That, and I know for a long time, Migraciones was basically where Kirchneristas were sent to collect years of government service and jubilaciones de privilegio.

Of course, to have money without being in The K Club is contrary to the K way of thinking, hence the old issues with the Rentista.

 

[GraceH]

It does seem like everyone in migracones is either corrupt or just lazy or both. At least with all these layoffs and the government downsizing maybe these employees will actually try to help people or lose their jobs.

Are immigration lawyers just paying bribes to migraciones staff? What do you guys think?

 

[Betsy Ross]

FWIW, I think Milei's team is working on making a lot of the hoops go afuera; we're still in the early days where they're bringing people around to the new way of doing things, though. That, and I know for a long time, Migraciones was basically where Kirchneristas were sent to collect years of government service and jubilaciones de privilegio.

Of course, to have money without being in The K Club is contrary to the K way of thinking, hence the old issues with the Rentista.

They are definitely firing many government workers but there are still many more to go. It isn't easy fixing decades worth of corruption. Many people got jobs where they either never showed up or they do show up but they don't do anything. Eventually this will get sorted out hopefully.

It does seem like everyone in migracones is either corrupt or just lazy or both. At least with all these layoffs and the government downsizing maybe these employees will actually try to help people or lose their jobs.

Are immigration lawyers just paying bribes to migraciones staff? What do you guys think?

I don't know if all of the immigration attorneys are bribing Migraciones employees to speed things up. I used one when I applied as I heard it was impossible to do it on my own. I even knew people that paid immigration attorneys and it took years. Some just give up. Most people just don't have that time to hassle with this on their own. It's great that you are documenting all of this @StatusNomadicus.

It really shouldn't be this easy. But I don't think the process is easy or cheap to do in the USA either.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

we're still in the early days

true - once Argies realize that bringing the best from crumbling areas like the USA will bring mass wealth and better living for all, i suspect there will be less tolerance for illegal immigration, with more desire for Golden Visas and other programs. it's not farfetched that companies like Tesla or Starlink could come to Argentina and thrive, if the tax rates become low or zero.

i'm happy to announce that this quote from the old forum is still working, at least in Cordoba Province:

In the Rad-ex website, if you submit the income verification documents, they'll call you down to migraciones. So you get to talk with an employee at migraciones. Every time they called me down, I expressed enthusiasm and optimism for my progress - feelings which they did not always share. I verbally let them know I was doing everything in my power to get compliant and I was making progress. Throughout the process, I never complained or got frustrated or said it was unfair. I gave them factual information and always departed with "I'll get it done, one way or another." Those guys and girls at Migraciones don't know anything about Argentine banking. They don't even know about Argentine immigration law. I'm serious. They told me things that I know are not true. So I realized there is no point in making their lives difficult by complaining or asking them questions they don't know the answer to. Regarding the structure, if it's unconventional, that is they haven't seen many like it, the income verification will be scrutinized to a far greater degree. If you own a rental apartment, you get a letter from your financial advisor, you copy the rental contract, get it notarized and apostilled, and voila. They recognize rental apartment as compliant. If it's something more unique, the documents need to make absolutely clear that a) there is this source/pool of funds that is very large, b) there is a binding, unbreakable legal agreement whereby this pool/source of funds transfers more than enough money to you on a regular basis (they want to see it goes to YOU - not some DBA or business account), c) that legal agreement will last longer than a year, d) neither party can easily exit the agreement and e) the distributed funds are clearly available for your use. @TheDonald

It does seem like everyone in migracones is either corrupt or just lazy or both

Migraciones folks are just like the rest of normal Argies who have no clue how any of this works (i don't blame them). but, to counter, i just tell them what i've done and explain what i can't possibly do, and they've been helpful every time (including the CABA chat). the Olympic Hoop-Jumping is part of the hazing process to prove yourself, i think

Are immigration lawyers just paying bribes to migraciones staff?

i've asked this myself, and i doubt anyone could prove it, but i'm sure @Bajo_cero2 knows how to give gifts to the right people. lobbying and corporate gifts/donations are legal in the USA, we just lie to ourselves that we aren't corrupt

It really shouldn't be this easy.

typo? what's easy?

for the USA, i think it's horribly corrupt and we're now importing people we don't want, while honest folks who are waiting in line and following the rules have to wait forever. i would bet my Bitcoin that the USA Embassy folks in BsAs are getting lots of favors and perks for deciding which Argentines get visas to the US.

 

[Betsy Ross]

true - once Argies realize that bringing the best from crumbling areas like the USA will bring mass wealth and better living for all, i suspect there will be less tolerance for illegal immigration, with more desire for Golden Visas and other programs. it's not farfetched that companies like Tesla or Starlink could come to Argentina and thrive, if the tax rates become low or zero.

It is hard to tell if Argentina will care about the immigration issue. Their constitution is very friendly to people wanting to move here. Just look at the fact that Milei has invited all of Venezuela to move here and live here and work here. Argentina still needs to solve quite a few tax and employment labor laws before things will work here for many companies. I still hear complaints all the time from friends that own businesses here. The tax rates here for companies is very high in Argentina for the typical company.

i've asked this myself, and i doubt anyone could prove it, but i'm sure @Bajo_cero2 knows how to give gifts to the right people. lobbying and corporate gifts/donations are legal in the USA, we just lie to ourselves that we aren't corrupt

I think that all of these immigration attorneys probably grease the wheel in some way. Even if it's as simple as bringing a box of facturas to the receptionist when a paper is due or some other similar gesture. I dont' think it always needs to be with money. But "gifts" in the right places to the right people seems to be a way of life here. I also have many Argentines that I know that have had to apply for a visa there. Most got their tourist visa but some did not. No one was ever asked for anything in exchange for a visa.

typo? what's easy?

for the USA, i think it's horribly corrupt and we're now importing people we don't want, while honest folks who are waiting in line and following the rules have to wait forever. i would bet my Bitcoin that the USA Embassy folks in BsAs are getting lots of favors and perks for deciding which Argentines get visas to the US.

Sorry typo. I meant it shouldn't be this difficult.

I would disagree with the US Embassy folks and getting favors or perks. My friend worked there several years ago for many years and I asked her this specific question and she claimed that was expressively forbidden and no one did it there as they wouldn't risk their job. So at least there I know it wasn't going on.

 

[Cellular Shill]

Hopefully, the process is getting easier. I bumped into a Russian woman the other day with her child at the park. I asked her about her journey and she had very positive things to say. She already had most of her extensive family here. Her husband's family. Her family too. I was amazed at her level of English and she was speaking to her kids in Spanish. She just moved here in October 2023.

I asked her if she had to hire any immigration attorney and she said she had a baby here and it was a very easy process. It sounds like her family figured it out on their own without a lawyer which was impressive. Or maybe one of their friends helped. I was impressed they were able to get almost their entire extended family here in less than a year.

 

[Oatmeal]

i'm not 100% but when i read it, it means to be "everyone else in the world other than Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Venezuela?, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Peru, Surinam" (so when i met an Uber driver from Panama, we had it in common that even though he was closer to Argentina than the USA and was a native Spanish speaker, he still had to take the same process as someone from the USA, Mexico, Turkey, Japan, Russia, etc.)

MERCOSUR Countries - MERCOSUR

¿Cuáles son los países del MERCOSUR? ¿Cuáles son Estados Partes y cuáles Estados Asociados? ¿Cuál es la diferencia? ¿Puede haber nuevos miembros?

www.mercosur.int

i'll update in a couple weeks!

Thank you.