Economy Argentina isn't the affordable option

[Travis]

I'd totally disagree with you about it not being a desirable retirement destination for most people. Many people do NOT want to hang out with others that don't speak the native language. I find cities like San Miguel and Ajijic kind of disgusting. Not In the sense they are not beautiful. Because they are. I know those two cities well and have friends that retired there. I have MANY that I know that moved to Chapala and Ajijic. But they learned Spanish and really involved with the community. But many from Canada or USA that go there never even bother to learn Spanish which I find obscene, rude and wouldn't want to hang out with them.

Even on this board there are probably a lot of people that have lived in Buenos Aires years and still don't speak Spanish. I find that disgusting. I've only met a few people on this board in real life. One of them is "Chris" who I met many, many, many years ago. A perfect gentleman that loves Argentina as much as I do. It was great to see him again in La Biela just a few weeks ago. He is the type of guy that I'd want to be friends with in real life.

"Stable" is a relative term. It's very subjective. Why do I want to hang out with "thousands of other expats"? That's not what retired life is about for many of us. What "active foreign community" does a retired person need? LOL.

I kind of laugh when I read posts like this talking about "stable". Many retired in the USA can't even afford to buy groceries now! Do you know how much gas is or healthcare? Not being able to pay for food on the table is NOT "stabile" so I think we have subjective terms of quality of life in retirement.

From my experience, most retirees want a place that is relatively safe, affordable, great cultural activities, decent weather, ability to travel a bit from that destination. Buenos Aires and many areas in Argentina in general gives them that.

Some of you are making a bigger deal out of the "instability" of the locals. For true locals earning pesos it's NOT stable. But for you expats earning dollars you can't even dare talk about stability. Just my 2 cents.

Certainly, the reason I relocated is that with what I receive from Social Security, living in California would have left me with very limited options, potentially even residing in a makeshift shelter under a bridge.

It's disheartening when someone with deep roots in California, belonging to a family that predates the Gold Rush, finds it financially untenable to continue living in the state.

But, you know, no bitterness whatsoever...

 

[earlyretirement]

Certainly, the reason I relocated is that with what I receive from Social Security, living in California would have left me with very limited options, potentially even residing in a makeshift shelter under a bridge.

It's disheartening when someone with deep roots in California, belonging to a family that predates the Gold Rush, finds it financially untenable to continue living in the state.

But, you know, no bitterness whatsoever...

Amen brother. I live here in California and it's a sh*t show. People are in denial. San Francisco all the cars are getting broken into. 3 or 4 blocks in a row of broken windows and the thieves are doing it in the day in broad daylight. No fear of getting arrested. I don't dare rent a car in the Bay Area now.

In Los Angeles many places have everything locked up. And even higher end areas in Orange County, shopping mall stores are getting robbed in daylight.

It's a travesty that people like you can't even afford to live in their own country. I don't think people talk enough about this issue. I think Buenos Aires is an amazing alternative. I really envision a day where Argentina actually targets retired from other countries to move there. I'm working on a few projects to make that happen. The downside is it's going to cause real estate prices there to drastically increase from today's prices. But many people around the world can't afford to retire in their own countries. Argentina is a solution for them.

It's pathetic when talk about how unstable it is in Argentina whether are people in the USA that can't afford to go to the grocery store here in the USA. So nobody cry me a river how Argentina is a tough place to retire because there aren't enough American bros to hang out with!

This pretty much sums up what life is like for many Americans. People are in denial. Watch and see. 2024 and 2025 are not going to be pretty in the


USA

https://twitter.com/x/status/1697379336981008523

 

[Quirno]

Great minds think alike. It's amazing to see Thailand mentioned and to even have someone from Thailand that moved to Buenos Aires. I think that's a testament to how wonderful Buenos Aires is. Like you Quilombo, I could easily live in Thailand if not for the humidity. My kids and my wife also loved it. Even with the humidity, I think I could send a few months a year there just for the amazing food. I found the food there amongst the best and cheapest in the world. So flavorful and so many varieties.

I do agree that quality of life in Buenos Aires is just about as good as it gets anywhere. I've been to over 550+ cities and counting and I have yet to find a better overall city when you factor in cultural events, beautiful architecture, weather, safety. quality of life, restaurants, things to do. I think the people are FAR nicer and friendlier in Thailand vs. Buenos Aires. Actually I don't think the people are that friendly in Buenos Aires compared to the majority of South America. For years, Argentines had an attitude and most still think they are "European" vs. the South Americans that they are.

This economic mess has kind of put them in their place. I want to see it do better but as I've always said, I think systemic change is just about impossible unless they blow up many of their existing laws and restructure. An an ideal world, either a country invades them (which I realize won't happen) or they sell themselves to a wealthy country and agree to start ALL over with their laws, and framework. It's really the only way I see systemic change happening.

Still, as messed ups a country as it is. You can live a pretty damn good life there as long as you make $US and spend in pesos. I don't see it changing any time soon.

Actually Chinatown has dramatically gotten better there. It's amazing how much it's grown in a relatively short amount of time. But most of the restaurants still aren't that good there. I'd never open a restaurant there. But if you do, I'll gladly be a customer!

I have the intention of bringing my husband to Thailand at some point in the future. He's lagging behind in terms of places visited, and Thailand is one of the destinations I wouldn't mind revisiting for the reasons you've mentioned.

Thailand extends beyond just Bangkok, and it's surprising that no one has brought up the topic of entertainment in the country.

I've visited Bangkok, Surat Thani, Koh Samui, Phuket, and Pattaya. Pattaya, in particular, seemed like a miniature Moscow on the beach with a mix of ladyboys and Australians on GHB. It wasn't quite my preference, as I had initially assumed that white tourists were seeking a beach getaway close to Bangkok.

 

[earlyretirement]

Ha, ha. Yes, my personal philosophy in life is 1) don't hurt yourself and 2) don't hurt anyone else. As long as you aren't doing either of the above than NO ONE can judge what a person does. That goes for sexuality also. It's one thing if you're married and should be faithful. It's another thing when you're a bachelor. Sex is too big of a thing in USA and other first world places where they try to shame people into thinking sex is a bad thing. I'm thankful in my youth I traveled the world over and in most of the places I had a lot of fun.

Guys delude themselves into thinking sex is free with non P2P. But in reality you ALWAYS pay. LOL. Prostitution is legal in much of the world. And I don't believe there is anything at all with discussing it as long as you're doing it intelligently. And of course, I mean no disrespect to the females on this forum. But this is just a fact of life and reality. I'm not talking about "passport bros" either. Those guys make me sick. I'm talking about guys that genuinely was to learn about the local culture, take the time to learn the language and want to be a part of society. For guys like that, Buenos Aires and much of South America and Latin America are a paradise.

The reality is once a male goes to destinations where they experience beautiful and loving Latinas, they will never again date an American or Westerner. That's just a fact. A Latina will beat an American/Canadian/British/Australian/etc in almost every way, shape, and form. They are better partners, better lovers, better mothers to kids.

I lived in Buenos Aires during the hey days. We assisted more than 100,000 rental guests and hundreds of investors. Many of them wanted to "have fun" in Buenos Aires. We never judged them and no one should judge anyone for any decisions they want to make. Many times, when they said they wanted to go to a certain club, we called the owners of these establishments and made sure they got a good table, weren't cheated and were respected. We also were very clear to always respect these establishments and the people in them. We would never tolerate anyone disrespecting anyone else. It was a glorious time to live in Buenos Aires.

Right after the corralito was probably THE best time to live in Buenos Aires for a male looking to have fun. The only city I can think of that was better than Buenos Aires was Rio de Janeiro. The days of Help Disco were something to behold. I was single then and I was going back and forth living between Buenos Aires and Rio. It was truly heaven on Earth.

In Thailand my family and I saw lots of people from different backgrounds and sexual orientations all over. We even took our kids to see a fabulous drag show in Phuket that was tastefully done. In all cases, it looked like they were having fun. And in the end, that's what life is all about. As long as you're not hurting yourself or others it's all good. IMHO.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[earlyretirement]

Turkey is the cheapest place to live? This guy doesn't know what he is talking about.

Is it expensive? I've never been there but I'm going in April to Istanbul and Capadoccia. I'm very much looking forward to it.

 

[dandy]

People residing in Argentina due to its affordability are essentially betting that the existing situation will persist, maintaining a certain level of hardship for citizens. However, any efforts to enhance prosperity and reduce poverty could lead to increased prices and higher wages. The current scenario of individuals earning $200 or less a month is unsustainable for the country in the long run.

 

[earlyretirement]

People residing in Argentina due to its affordability are essentially betting that the existing situation will persist, maintaining a certain level of hardship for citizens. However, any efforts to enhance prosperity and reduce poverty could lead to increased prices and higher wages. The current scenario of individuals earning $200 or less a month is unsustainable for the country in the long run.

I've always been one that loves Buenos Aires NOT because it's dirt cheap. Even if it was expensive it would be a world class city. I truly mean that. I'd love it even if it was more expensive. It will NEVER get as expensive as the USA. Things here are out of control. Argentina will NEVER get like that.


Look at the gorgeous architecture. Look at the amazing restaurants. Look at the beautiful parks and the lay out of the city. It's no wonder it was one of the wealthiest countries in the world at the turn of the Century.

I agree with you that the wages are too low. When I employed hundreds there I think I was paying on average like $1,300 US per month. I was paying even maids well over $800 US per month. Plus we got OSDE 410 health plans for all the employees too. They were also working in white and we paid taxes for all of them.

It's crazy now and things must improve. But I don't think it's fair to say people (expats) are only there because it's cheap. I think many people short change Buenos Aires. It's an incredible city. Even if it was US prices, I'd still love it and go down there. Like I said, if you have a paid off place, you can live there for not too much money.

Argentina is an incredible place. I actually hope things improve and things get much more expensive. I have a LOT of friends and even family there and it's painful to see them suffering so much. We all must hope and pray for a better Argentina. Anyone that does not truly doesn't deserve to live there.

Ex-pats that just pray that Argentina's misery and suffering all so they can get a cheap blue dollar deserve to go to hell in my opinion and do NOT deserve to live in Buenos Aires. What good is a cheap place to live if everything is going to sh*t around you. I want to see an Argentina that stops the "brain drain" and the exit of talented and intelligent Argentines. I want to see an Argentina that all that left can can come back to and make a decent living wage.

There has to be a balance of affordable and good for the locals too.

 

[Rico]

I maintain a spreadsheet to assess various aspects on a scale from 1 to 10 for comparisons between different cities and Buenos Aires. Buenos Aires consistently ranks at the top in each category (I speak Spanish). Can you provide your perspective on this? (Not necessarily Argentina, but specifically Buenos Aires).

1. Language
2. Culture
3. Cosmopolitan city
4. Health system
5. Connectivity
6. Weather
7. School system
8. Ethnicity
9. Migration Policies
10. Cost of Living

Thailand is fantastic, but the cultural and language barriers make it challenging to fully engage in the local culture, attend Thai shows, or connect with the locals. I've visited Thailand at least 8 times, exploring places like Bangkok, Chiang Mai/Rai, Pattaya, Phuket, and more.

 

[Rico]

I have the intention of bringing my husband to Thailand at some point in the future. He's lagging behind in terms of places visited, and Thailand is one of the destinations I wouldn't mind revisiting for the reasons you've mentioned.

I've visited Bangkok, Surat Thani, Koh Samui, Phuket, and Pattaya. Pattaya, in particular, seemed like a miniature Moscow on the beach with a mix of ladyboys and Australians on GHB. It wasn't quite my preference, as I had initially assumed that white tourists were seeking a beach getaway close to Bangkok.

It's also important to highlight the popularity of medical and dental tourism in Thailand, where individuals seek affordable plastic surgery services. Additionally, there's a noteworthy mention of markets where the purchasing power of the dollar is emphasized.

 

[Travis]

I've always been one that loves Buenos Aires NOT because it's dirt cheap. Even if it was expensive it would be a world class city. I truly mean that. I'd love it even if it was more expensive. It will NEVER get as expensive as the USA. Things here are out of control. Argentina will NEVER get like that.


Look at the gorgeous architecture. Look at the amazing restaurants. Look at the beautiful parks and the lay out of the city. It's no wonder it was one of the wealthiest countries in the world at the turn of the Century.

I agree with you that the wages are too low. When I employed hundreds there I think I was paying on average like $1,300 US per month. I was paying even maids well over $800 US per month. Plus we got OSDE 410 health plans for all the employees too. They were also working in white and we paid taxes for all of them.

It's crazy now and things must improve. But I don't think it's fair to say people (expats) are only there because it's cheap. I think many people short change Buenos Aires. It's an incredible city. Even if it was US prices, I'd still love it and go down there. Like I said, if you have a paid off place, you can live there for not too much money.

Argentina is an incredible place. I actually hope things improve and things get much more expensive. I have a LOT of friends and even family there and it's painful to see them suffering so much. We all must hope and pray for a better Argentina. Anyone that does not truly doesn't deserve to live there.

Ex-pats that just pray that Argentina's misery and suffering all so they can get a cheap blue dollar deserve to go to hell in my opinion and do NOT deserve to live in Buenos Aires. What good is a cheap place to live if everything is going to sh*t around you. I want to see an Argentina that stops the "brain drain" and the exit of talented and intelligent Argentines. I want to see an Argentina that all that left can can come back to and make a decent living wage.

There has to be a balance of affordable and good for the locals too.

Wow, your list of achievements is truly remarkable. You've experienced a wide range of activities and traveled extensively.

 

[dandy]

I've always been one that loves Buenos Aires NOT because it's dirt cheap. Even if it was expensive it would be a world class city. I truly mean that. I'd love it even if it was more expensive. It will NEVER get as expensive as the USA. Things here are out of control. Argentina will NEVER get like that.


Look at the gorgeous architecture. Look at the amazing restaurants. Look at the beautiful parks and the lay out of the city. It's no wonder it was one of the wealthiest countries in the world at the turn of the Century.

I agree with you that the wages are too low. When I employed hundreds there I think I was paying on average like $1,300 US per month. I was paying even maids well over $800 US per month. Plus we got OSDE 410 health plans for all the employees too. They were also working in white and we paid taxes for all of them.

It's crazy now and things must improve. But I don't think it's fair to say people (expats) are only there because it's cheap. I think many people short change Buenos Aires. It's an incredible city. Even if it was US prices, I'd still love it and go down there. Like I said, if you have a paid off place, you can live there for not too much money.

Argentina is an incredible place. I actually hope things improve and things get much more expensive. I have a LOT of friends and even family there and it's painful to see them suffering so much. We all must hope and pray for a better Argentina. Anyone that does not truly doesn't deserve to live there.

Ex-pats that just pray that Argentina's misery and suffering all so they can get a cheap blue dollar deserve to go to hell in my opinion and do NOT deserve to live in Buenos Aires. What good is a cheap place to live if everything is going to sh*t around you. I want to see an Argentina that stops the "brain drain" and the exit of talented and intelligent Argentines. I want to see an Argentina that all that left can can come back to and make a decent living wage.

There has to be a balance of affordable and good for the locals too.

At the time when you hired maids for $800, they are likely earning $200 or even less now.

 

[perroc]

At the time when you hired maids for $800, they are likely earning $200 or even less now.

Individuals have the freedom to compensate others as they see fit; however, it's important to consider paying a livable wage if one has a sense of conscience, contributing to the creation of a more equitable and just world.

 

[Redpoint]

Individuals have the freedom to compensate others as they see fit; however, it's important to consider paying a livable wage if one has a sense of conscience, contributing to the creation of a more equitable and just world.

Are you personally compensating your maid with $800 per month, or is that statement more of a general observation?

 

[perroc]

Are you personally compensating your maid with $800 per month, or is that statement more of a general observation?

I choose to pay my employees double the minimum wage because I can afford it and strongly believe it's the ethically responsible thing to do. Merely adhering to legal minimums doesn't necessarily ensure a livable wage, and many expatriates express sympathy while their actions contradict this sentiment. This pattern is also observed in the Middle East, where maids often face significant exploitation. In essence, the law may not always align with ethical principles.

 

[Redpoint]

I choose to pay my employees double the minimum wage because I can afford it and strongly believe it's the ethically responsible thing to do. Merely adhering to legal minimums doesn't necessarily ensure a livable wage, and many expatriates express sympathy while their actions contradict this sentiment. This pattern is also observed in the Middle East, where maids often face significant exploitation. In essence, the law may not always align with ethical principles.

The minimum salary in September is 118,000 pesos. Doubling that amount equates to 118,000 / 730 * 2 = 323 USD. Your conscientious decision has a significant impact.

 

[perroc]

The minimum salary in September is 118,000 pesos. Doubling that amount equates to 118,000 / 730 * 2 = 323 USD. Your conscientious decision has a significant impact.

I provide compensation of 320,000 pesos, which is nearly 450 USD per month.

 

[perroc]

The minimum salary in September is 118,000 pesos. Doubling that amount equates to 118,000 / 730 * 2 = 323 USD. Your conscientious decision has a significant impact.

Describing minimum wage as a form of servitude, those who have the means to pay more should reflect on their conscience. In Bariloche, minimum wages are 50% higher than in the federal capital, and it appears that maids in that area express greater satisfaction.

 

[Redpoint]

Describing minimum wage as a form of servitude, those who have the means to pay more should reflect on their conscience. In Bariloche, minimum wages are 50% higher than in the federal capital, and it appears that maids in that area express greater satisfaction.

 

[on the rock]

The minimum wage is exceptionally low, bordering on being unjust. In this locality, no maids are willing to work for such low wages; the standard is at least 150% of the minimum wage, if not more. Personally, I disregard the meager government-mandated increases and regularly adjust salaries based on the prevailing inflation rates. This, combined with a respectful and considerate approach to their needs, leads to content and loyal employees who choose to stay with the family for an extended period.

 

[dandy]

Individuals have the freedom to compensate others as they see fit; however, it's important to consider paying a livable wage if one has a sense of conscience, contributing to the creation of a more equitable and just world.

Sure thing, anyone can toss in more cash than the legal minimum wage. Employers are also supposed to throw in some dough for pensions. But these days, $800 a month is more of a manager's gig. Can't picture many housekeepers raking in that much.