Economy Argentina isn't the affordable option

[dandy]

The minimum salary in September is 118,000 pesos. Doubling that amount equates to 118,000 / 730 * 2 = 323 USD. Your conscientious decision has a significant impact.

Even if you multiply the minimum wage by two, it only amounts to $323, which is a far cry from the earlier claim of $800.

 

[dandy]

I provide compensation of 320,000 pesos, which is nearly 450 USD per month.

For an individual residing in your household with 1.5 days off per week?

 

[dandy]

Describing minimum wage as a form of servitude, those who have the means to pay more should reflect on their conscience. In Bariloche, minimum wages are 50% higher than in the federal capital, and it appears that maids in that area express greater satisfaction.

The minimum wage is a source of frustration. The cost of living in the southern regions surpasses that of Buenos Aires. Even doubling the minimum wage falls significantly short. Across the board, salaries in Argentina are dishearteningly low, even for those with academic qualifications. What's the typical income for a doctor?

 

[Travis]

Individuals have the freedom to compensate others as they see fit; however, it's important to consider paying a livable wage if one has a sense of conscience, contributing to the creation of a more equitable and just world.

It's a matter of the forces of supply and demand.

 

[earlyretirement]

I maintain a spreadsheet to assess various aspects on a scale from 1 to 10 for comparisons between different cities and Buenos Aires. Buenos Aires consistently ranks at the top in each category (I speak Spanish). Can you provide your perspective on this? (Not necessarily Argentina, but specifically Buenos Aires).

1. Language
2. Culture
3. Cosmopolitan city
4. Health system
5. Connectivity
6. Weather
7. School system
8. Ethnicity
9. Migration Policies
10. Cost of Living

Thailand is fantastic, but the cultural and language barriers make it challenging to fully engage in the local culture, attend Thai shows, or connect with the locals. I've visited Thailand at least 8 times, exploring places like Bangkok, Chiang Mai/Rai, Pattaya, Phuket, and more.

This is spot on target and also similar to my list Rico. For me it has to have ALL of these things. I'd probably put health care more at the top of my list of importance now that I am having health issues. Previously I had it where you did but as people get older they need to prioritize that closer to the top and I've found that Argentina Is EXCELLENT!

I totally agree with you about the difficulty with Thailand. It's interesting seeing people that have like minded thoughts. To me that would be the toughest thing about Thailand even though I'm totally in love with the culture, way of life, food and the people there.

Wow, your list of achievements is truly remarkable. You've experienced a wide range of activities and traveled extensively.

Thank you!. I'm truly blessed to have lived an incredible life. I'm currently writing an autobiography about my life. Some in Hollywood have expressed an interest in me writing a book, selling a screen play and making a Hollywood movie about my life. So you could see that in the next few years. I do know NO ONE has lived the type of life I've lived. I'm lucky.

Individuals have the freedom to compensate others as they see fit; however, it's important to consider paying a livable wage if one has a sense of conscience, contributing to the creation of a more equitable and just world.

Yes, I agree with you . I've never paid any of my employees minimum wage. NEVER. I totally agree with you that you MUST pay people a living wage. I don't care what country you are in. If Milei wins, I'm getting ready to gear up and start up operations again in Argentina. I never thought I'd do a large company there again but I see some opportunities now. I will pay my employees a living wage just like I always have done.

Are you personally compensating your maid with $800 per month, or is that statement more of a general observation?

No, I don't have any full time maids now in Buenos Aires. I was fortunate to have sold off almost all my properties at the peak of the Buenos Aires real estate market and timed it perfectly. I do own a few units but I pay them by the hour. My wife pays them 3 X what the normal rate is. Plus help them out with loans and stuff.

At the time when you hired maids for $800, they are likely earning $200 or even less now.

This was back from 2002 to about 2010. The exchange rate was normal back them from 3 pesos to $1 US to about $4.5 pesos to $1 if I recall correctly. I also paid OSDE healthcare benefits for ALL employees which is pretty unheard of in Buenos Aires.

You can see a historical price of exchange rate here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_exchange_rates_of_Argentine_currency

For frame of reference I pay my Mexican maid $250 US dollars for 8 hours here in San Diego. It's nuts! But that's how m much they charge. And minimum wages at places like In N Out where I live they are paying these kids $20 US dollar per hour!! My friend correctly joked the other day, the maid is making more than working at fast food! LOL. Sad but true. After COVID it's NOT easy to find good maids. And I live less than 1 hour from the border. Such is the state in the USA now.

 

[earlyretirement]

Describing minimum wage as a form of servitude, those who have the means to pay more should reflect on their conscience. In Bariloche, minimum wages are 50% higher than in the federal capital, and it appears that maids in that area express greater satisfaction.

I completely concur with your perspective. If you check Twitter, you'll come across outrageous job postings by law firms offering salaries as low as $185 US per month! It's absurd. I even extended an offer of $500 US to someone willing to accept the job, share their experience through a blog, and subsequently expose the law firm (since they posted anonymously). I'm genuinely prepared to pay someone $500 US to take on the position, document their month-long experience, and then resign.

 

[walter50]

Why is it considered wishful thinking? After all, Argentina wouldn't be the pioneer in adopting dollarization. Referring to people as 'stupid' for entertaining the idea might be a bit harsh. Were you around during the Menem era with the 1 peso-1 dollar policy? Back then, many doubted its feasibility, yet it happened. Unfortunately, the government didn't adhere to the convertibility law. The argument for dollarization is that it could enforce compliance.

The prospect appears wishful because, even if Milei were to secure the presidency, he wouldn't have unchecked authority. Gaining the necessary support for such a move seems unlikely. In a global context where the value of the dollar is diminishing, dollarization might not be in Argentina's best interest. Implementing the required fiscal adjustments for the success of dollarization could pose significant challenges for Argentina. While Ecuador has faced issues with this approach, acknowledging some positive outcomes, the idea that it would ensure compliance raises questions about the associated costs. It's worth considering that this isn't two decades ago when the dollar wielded greater influence. With the world becoming more multipolar, rushing into decisions might not be in Argentina's best interest; a more measured approach could be prudent.

 

[Travis]

Let me highlight another challenge associated with dollarization—the demand for change.

If the economy transitions to using dollars, there will be a substantial requirement for smaller denominations—1, 5, 10, 20 dollar bills, and coins, including dimes and quarters. Addressing the logistical aspects, we're talking about tens or even hundreds of tons of these small bills and coins. In addition to the significant financial investment of 30-50 billion USD for the overall process, one must also consider the sheer volume, weight, and monetary value of the small bills and coins needed for this system to function effectively. While Milei supporters might downplay these concerns, the logistical considerations are undeniably substantial.

 

[Redpoint]

Let me highlight another challenge associated with dollarization—the demand for change.

If the economy transitions to using dollars, there will be a substantial requirement for smaller denominations—1, 5, 10, 20 dollar bills, and coins, including dimes and quarters. Addressing the logistical aspects, we're talking about tens or even hundreds of tons of these small bills and coins. In addition to the significant financial investment of 30-50 billion USD for the overall process, one must also consider the sheer volume, weight, and monetary value of the small bills and coins needed for this system to function effectively. While Milei supporters might downplay these concerns, the logistical considerations are undeniably substantial.

Getting everyone to use debit cards could be a solution. It's more efficient for tax collection, and let's face it, cash is a bit of an antiquated relic, isn't it?

 

[Travis]

Getting everyone to use debit cards could be a solution. It's more efficient for tax collection, and let's face it, cash is a bit of an antiquated relic, isn't it?

It's a somewhat ageist response, overlooking the concerns of seniors, not to mention other issues with such a proposal.

Consider scenarios where a store or kiosk lacks internet connectivity, a common occurrence here. Moreover, what about situations with power outages? In those instances, nobody would be able to make purchases. This seemingly casual suggestion has several significant drawbacks.

 

[walter50]

It's a somewhat ageist response, overlooking the concerns of seniors, not to mention other issues with such a proposal.

Consider scenarios where a store or kiosk lacks internet connectivity, a common occurrence here. Moreover, what about situations with power outages? In those instances, nobody would be able to make purchases. This seemingly casual suggestion has several significant drawbacks.

Unfortunately, the younger generation seems to lack wisdom. They often only grasp life's lessons through difficult experiences. If Milei were to emerge victorious, it could serve as a learning experience for them, dissuading future votes for similar charismatic figures. It's a tough lesson they seem to need.

 

[Redpoint]

It's a somewhat ageist response, overlooking the concerns of seniors, not to mention other issues with such a proposal.

Consider scenarios where a store or kiosk lacks internet connectivity, a common occurrence here. Moreover, what about situations with power outages? In those instances, nobody would be able to make purchases. This seemingly casual suggestion has several significant drawbacks.

Amid the pandemic, older individuals adjusted to utilizing debit cards and electronic wallets since alternative options were limited. Pension disbursements were facilitated electronically, directed to either a bank account or a digital wallet.

what about situations with power outages? In those instances, nobody would be able to make purchases. This seemingly casual suggestion has several significant drawbacks.

If the power outage is prolonged to the extent that it hinders your ability to postpone shopping, you might as well be anticipating rescue helicopters.

 

[Redpoint]

Unfortunately, the younger generation seems to lack wisdom. They often only grasp life's lessons through difficult experiences. If Milei were to emerge victorious, it could serve as a learning experience for them, dissuading future votes for similar charismatic figures. It's a tough lesson they seem to need.

Although I am skeptical about the wisdom of adopting dollarization, issues like the shortage of small bills or coins are unlikely to be the decisive factor.

 

[Mayor]

It's a somewhat ageist response, overlooking the concerns of seniors, not to mention other issues with such a proposal.

Consider scenarios where a store or kiosk lacks internet connectivity, a common occurrence here. Moreover, what about situations with power outages? In those instances, nobody would be able to make purchases. This seemingly casual suggestion has several significant drawbacks.

A potential solution could involve introducing a reloadable gift card, similar to a SUBE card, to complement cash transactions. Have you ever experienced a situation on a bus where your SUBE card didn't function due to a blackout?

 

[Travis]

A potential solution could involve introducing a reloadable gift card, similar to a SUBE card, to complement cash transactions. Have you ever experienced a situation on a bus where your SUBE card didn't function due to a blackout?

Do you know that a bus has a battery that is charged by an alternator?
And you are suggesting the implementation of a completely new nationwide payment system in the eighth largest nation in the world.
What about the cost? the setup and testing time? or if it gets hacked?
Cash is always functional. It does not require external power, it is not susceptible to hacking and its use is known to all.

 

[Travis]

Amid the pandemic, older individuals adjusted to utilizing debit cards and electronic wallets since alternative options were limited. Pension disbursements were facilitated electronically, directed to either a bank account or a digital wallet.

If the power outage is prolonged to the extent that it hinders your ability to postpone shopping, you might as well be anticipating rescue helicopters.

Except for those who didn't experience the same outcome.
Did you overlook the instances where certain individuals, particularly seniors, faced challenges with cashless transactions? For instance, there were images circulating of seniors waiting in long lines under the sun to receive payments in person because they couldn't or wouldn't use a debit card. Additionally, were you aware of the announcements specifying which days individuals could line up based on the last digit of their DNI cards?

If the power outage is prolonged to the extent that it hinders your ability to postpone shopping, you might as well be anticipating rescue helicopters.

A seemingly indifferent disregard for such situations is truly heartless, leaving me at a loss for words – or at least words that would be appropriate for this forum. I assure you, there are a few impolite expressions crossing my mind at the moment.

 

[Redpoint]

Except for those who didn't experience the same outcome.

I assume these are the same five million individuals that this person is referring to when discussing those who go without meals.

Did you overlook the instances where certain individuals, particularly seniors, faced challenges with cashless transactions? For instance, there were images circulating of seniors waiting in long lines under the sun to receive payments in person because they couldn't or wouldn't use a debit card. Additionally, were you aware of the announcements specifying which days individuals could line up based on the last digit of their DNI cards?

During its initial phases, the transition was underway. Presently, all pension disbursements are conducted electronically.

Cash is always functional. It does not require external power, it is not susceptible to hacking and its use is known to all.

They could keep a minimal amount of pesos in circulation for emergency situations. It's a preferable option to resorting to printing new local currencies like Patacones.

 

[Mayor]

Do you know that a bus has a battery that is charged by an alternator?
And you are suggesting the implementation of a completely new nationwide payment system in the eighth largest nation in the world.
What about the cost? the setup and testing time? or if it gets hacked?
Cash is always functional. It does not require external power, it is not susceptible to hacking and its use is known to all.

Perhaps that might not be the ultimate solution, but do you genuinely believe stores couldn't have backup power sources, like batteries, to sustain operations during a blackout? Do you not think that cashless societies are already under consideration? Do you happen to have a Mercado Pago account?

 

[stm79]

I believe the concern about having change is somewhat exaggerated. Whenever you present a large bill at a kiosk or market, they rarely have enough change to give you, and they often react negatively to the idea that they should have an adequate supply of small bills for providing change. This has been a longstanding issue.

 

[earlyretirement]

Getting everyone to use debit cards could be a solution. It's more efficient for tax collection, and let's face it, cash is a bit of an antiquated relic, isn't it?

Yes, THIS is spot on target Redpoint! Argentina is already making a push for ALL stores to require to accept debit cards. THIS is the solution. To move more towards Digital society. It works very well. I use my debit card in ALL places including taxis. They can't say no. They are NOT set up yet with foreign credit cards but if you are a local and have a debit card, it works beautifully and I'm very proud of the progress Argentina has made with this over the years. A huge leap forward.

I've offered Milei's transition team and advisors to help advise them. I hold degrees in Political Science and other degrees. I do a LOT of consulting even at Board level public companies. My advice would be a golden visa program. Get EVERY retiree from whatever country that wants to live here and meets basic financial requirements to get a retirement visa which includes DNI. Mexico has a very easy process which I've done myself personally. Make a similar program but even make it more seamless. You can easily streamline it where part of the process includes opening a free bank account instantly so they can transfer funds into it. I know it will take a LONG time for people to build up trust but you have to start somewhere.

It's already VERY easy to get a bank account at Banco Galicia (https://www.galicia.ar/personas/cuenta-gratuita-universal) once you have a DNI. I did it ALL online and over WhatsApp. I didn't have to even go into a branch. The ATM card came within 5 days to my apartment in Buenos Aires. You make it seamless like that and you can have debit cards working for EVERY local as well as foreigner coming here. It's completely FREE and takes only days to get. A huge thanks to members on BA Expats as that is where I learned about this account.

You make it so these retirees, NEVER have to pay asset taxes on assets (cash, real estate, stocks, etc) abroad outside of Argentina. Only inside Argentina and maybe even waive the property tax on their FIRST property. This will get a tremendous amount of people around the world moving here. People underestimate the amount of money that people spend on a DAILY basis. This spurs economic development and growth and helps the economy.

You would have developers all over Argentina building retirement communities for foreigners around the world. The economy would boom here as those people moving in aren't just building homes or buying properties but they are dining out, buying groceries, buying stuff and supporting the local economies.

The downside is It WILL cause real estate prices the country over to skyrocket. You'd have an influx of MANY billions of dollars from people that can't afford to live in their own countries (USA, Canada, UK, etc) and owning here. The quality of life is much better in Argentina, the health care system is much better. The food is much better. People have to think big to turn things around in Argentina.

I have tons and tons of ideas like this.