Is the Expat party in Buenos Aires coming to an end?

[Silvia]

Argentina is a paradise for us old farts! Senior citizenship should be enjoyed but in the USA it's too depressing. I don't think you can really live a dignified and fulfilled life in the USA at our ages unless you have family to support you or a really strong pension which is nonexistent these days!

 

[Vince]

Returning to own the home I previously owned in the USA no way I could afford it on $3,800 USD! Definitely not feasible! It would necessitate owning a car, with taxes exceeding $8,000 annually (and increasing).

During my return from Argentina to sell the house, I was incurring an $100 per month electric bill solely for the refrigerator/freezer. Considering it was a rural setting with no industry, stores, or supermarkets in the town, transportation became essential. The heating bill soared to $450 or more for at least 5 months annually. Moreover, I'd have to start paying for Medicare soon.


Going back there, affording a house would be beyond my means. Renting would be the only viable option, and in the vicinity where my family and friends reside (the primary reason for contemplating the move), the minimum cost would hover around $2300 per month, excluding utilities. I'd still require a vehicle, food/dining out, and health insurance.

Fortunately, I was fortunate to be here on vacation last year when I underwent a necessary quadruple bypass surgery.
If there's a way to make the financial aspects work in central Connecticut, I'd be eager to explore it!

Unless you're in your 70's and have resided in the same house for three decades or were fortunate in the housing market, who in the USA genuinely owns their home outright? The overwhelming majority of "homeowners" are still paying off mortgages. Additionally, when factoring in taxes and insurance, which are considerably higher than in Argentina relative to income earned in dollars, the financial burden escalates. With a budget of $3,800, one might manage to rent a studio apartment, but essential expenses like car expenses, insurance (both auto and health), utilities, and, of course, food, swiftly add up.

 

[earlyretirement]

Unless you're in your 70's and have resided in the same house for three decades or were fortunate in the housing market, who in the USA genuinely owns their home outright? The overwhelming majority of "homeowners" are still paying off mortgages. Additionally, when factoring in taxes and insurance, which are considerably higher than in Argentina relative to income earned in dollars, the financial burden escalates. With a budget of $3,800, one might manage to rent a studio apartment, but essential expenses like car expenses, insurance (both auto and health), utilities, and, of course, food, swiftly add up.

Actually don't take this the wrong way as I totally agree living in the USA in retirement is impossible for many Americans. Same holds true for other countries. The cost of living in many first world countries is sky high! I have enough money to live anywhere in the world but I think living in the USA in retirement would be depressing. An exciting evening in the USA if you're over 65 is ordering a pizza after 9 PM!

One of the things that attracted me about Buenos Aires during the corralito was their economy totally collapsed but senior citizens were still in La Biela at 2 AM drinking empressos! I love that about Buenos Aires.

You are wrong that not many own their own homes in the USA. This used to be true but the percentage of Americans that now own their home free and clear is about 40% and growing. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...9.QTdyfuIv5zTLqt5LNe_g0KQ2yQlJ0EP6Ih7N10OtT2s

I own my home free and clear. I got used to that in Buenos Aires where all the properties are paid with cash. I bought my house in the USA with cash once I bought here at the bottom. It's a great feeling not having a mortgage. When interest rates were so low many refinanced and then just paid their homes off early. It's a GREAT feeling owning NO money to the bank. Many people say they will take that money and "invest" it but many just blow their money on junk. I've found that forcing yourself to pay for a property in cash gives you discipline. ALL my clients and all my friends and employees in Argentina ALL own their properties free and clear and all of them are making significant US Dollar incomes renting out their properties on Airbnb. It's a beautiful thing. ROI is sky high.

 

[Jeb Spencer]

Numerous retired Americans have successfully paid off their homes, leading to substantial legacies for their children, largely due to the significant increase in their home values. Contrary to the notion that most Americans reside in apartments, the majority live in houses. However, it's inaccurate to claim that one-room (studio/bedsit) apartments cost $3,000 outside cities like NYC (Manhattan) or San Francisco. Generally, this isn't the case elsewhere in the country. While it's true that taxes and insurance tend to be higher in the US, there are property tax freeze programs available for low-income individuals aimed at alleviating these burdens.

I think it is debatable that people can't afford to live in the USA on $3,800 per month. Individuals aged 65 and above are covered by Medicare, and despite some claims here, Medicare offers comprehensive coverage. Presently, there are Medicare Advantage plans that come without any supplementary costs, some even providing quarterly credits for over-the-counter products.

For those with extremely low incomes, Medicaid is available, which is entirely free. However, if they were to move to Argentina, it's uncertain whether they would be accepted into ANY private healthcare scheme—although the Italian Hospital was mentioned as a potential option. Yet, this would entail additional expenses. Renting would likely exceed what they pay in the US, especially if they're living in subsidized housing. If they have savings, purchasing a property could be an option, but the cost ranges from USD $100,000 to USD $200,000.

Moreover, navigating Argentina's unpredictable economic policies brings about fluctuating prices, making it an uncertain investment. For someone aged 65 and older, relocating to a foreign country without a strong support network is a daunting task. If things go awry, they'd have to manage on their own.

 

[LongIslander]

Numerous retired Americans have successfully paid off their homes, leading to substantial legacies for their children, largely due to the significant increase in their home values. Contrary to the notion that most Americans reside in apartments, the majority live in houses. However, it's inaccurate to claim that one-room (studio/bedsit) apartments cost $3,000 outside cities like NYC (Manhattan) or San Francisco. Generally, this isn't the case elsewhere in the country. While it's true that taxes and insurance tend to be higher in the US, there are property tax freeze programs available for low-income individuals aimed at alleviating these burdens.

I think it is debatable that people can't afford to live in the USA on $3,800 per month. Individuals aged 65 and above are covered by Medicare, and despite some claims here, Medicare offers comprehensive coverage. Presently, there are Medicare Advantage plans that come without any supplementary costs, some even providing quarterly credits for over-the-counter products.

For those with extremely low incomes, Medicaid is available, which is entirely free. However, if they were to move to Argentina, it's uncertain whether they would be accepted into ANY private healthcare scheme—although the Italian Hospital was mentioned as a potential option. Yet, this would entail additional expenses. Renting would likely exceed what they pay in the US, especially if they're living in subsidized housing. If they have savings, purchasing a property could be an option, but the cost ranges from USD $100,000 to USD $200,000.

Moreover, navigating Argentina's unpredictable economic policies brings about fluctuating prices, making it an uncertain investment. For someone aged 65 and older, relocating to a foreign country without a strong support network is a daunting task. If things go awry, they'd have to manage on their own.

You CLEARLY have NOT resided in the USA in recent years. Single-room apartments indeed command prices ranging from $2000 to $3000 in MANY across the USA. When is the last time you lived in the USA???

Approximately 39 million people in the US reside in apartments, which is roughly half the population of the UK. My adult children both live in apartments—one in NYC. My son in New York recently relocated in October, and the most affordable bedsits he found were priced at $2,900, with many exceeding that figure by a significant margin.

I live in a rural farming community where the average home price exceeds $600,000, far above the current national average of $412,000. This average is nearly double the average home price in the UK, and unlike the UK's "council flats," the US has less than 1% of the population residing in public housing. Roughly 18% of the UK population lives in "social housing."

Understanding the actual cost of living in the US, including expenses for insurance, healthcare, utilities, transportation, and food, is complex and substantially higher compared to many other countries. You are totally out of touch with today's pricing. I mean NO offense to you but you are clearly clueless to the cost of things in the USA today in many metro cities.

 

[Bob]

Hi @Bob . Thanks for posting. Can I ask you how you found this forum?

I agree with you that Argentina needs to take a serious look and evaluate cutting spending. They simply can NOT afford to do many of the things they are doing. I do NOT agree with everything Javier Milei says or does and told him that to his face and told his staff that as well when I met with him a few weeks ago. I feel like it's going to get ugly. I've always maintained it's going to get worse before it gets better.

I disagreed with him that he would easily be able to dollarize the economy. Many bloggers and even companies that I advise for, told me it would be easier but I disagreed and now we are seeing it play out it's EXACTLY how I said it would be.

Most people simply do NOT understand Argentina. I'm in a unique position from investing so much money here, starting many businesses, mostly working with foreign investors, legally bringing in a lot of money for foreign individuals and companies, building a hotel and exiting successfully to a foreign multi-national company.

It's going to be a tough road ahead for Argentina. But Argentina definitely needed a change, IMHO.

I agree with you about Villa Crespo. I don't really like it or Palermo Soho anymore. I was responsible for developing much of Palermo Soho and I truly regret my role in creating "Disneyland" of Palermo. If you can afford it, Recoleta is the best neighborhood for overall living. I also like more authentic parts of Palermo. Check out my website if you're interested in buying. There is a lot of FREE information there as well as every single real estate related article on Buenos Aires real estate - https://buysellba.com/

Cheers.

Hello @earlyretirement! I found your forum from this post on Twitter! https://x.com/BuySellBA/status/1730421634300039610?s=20.

I was not following you but it came up in my feed. I am researching Buenos Aires so maybe the algorithm made you pop up. I saw the yellow star next to your name and it made it pop! I went to the other forum listed on that link but I like the format of this forum better. I originally posted about Villa Crespo and I got a lot of great comments. I am not alone in thinking your website is better than that other forum. I was confused about two forums? What's the story?


Do you also own www.buysellba.com ? Wow you get around!

 

[earlyretirement]

Hello @earlyretirement! I found your forum from this post on Twitter! https://x.com/BuySellBA/status/1730421634300039610?s=20.

I was not following you but it came up in my feed. I am researching Buenos Aires so maybe the algorithm made you pop up. I saw the yellow star next to your name and it made it pop! I went to the other forum listed on that link but I like the format of this forum better. I originally posted about Villa Crespo and I got a lot of great comments. I am not alone in thinking your website is better than that other forum. I was confused about two forums? What's the story?


Do you also own www.buysellba.com ? Wow you get around!

Thank you @Bob for letting me know how you found my website. I really appreciate it. I'm getting new users from all over the world. And the engagement rates are crazy good! Obviously, most people are lurkers but I'm really impressed with the numbers and people are just discovering my website. A LOT of users from Twitter.

I doubt I will renew the Twitter Verified Organization. One because we really don't need the business. I don't have enough hours in the day to meet with everyone that is interested in working with us. But mostly because we already have a lot of investors. I DO enjoy working with new clients (and I have already done paid initial consultations with several of the members on this forum and they all said it was well worth it) but I can't see that paying $1,000 US a month to be a Twitter Verified Organization is worth it. I will see. I know @Elon personally and I have asked him to be on my Advisory Board for my new company, Casa Libre.

I was one of the very first to buy a Tesla Model S from him many years ago in 2012. I also was one of the very first to buy the Tesla Model X. I also own the Tesla Model Y and I have pre-ordered the Tesla Roadster and it's many years late just like my Model X was late. I felt very sorry for my friend, Elon after he overpaid for Twitter. So I have been donating the $1,000 US to him each month. But my charity has limits. Even for friends. LOL.

I have so many various projects going on simultaneously. I own several properties around the world and I own several corporations around the world. I'm planning a big new start-up in 2024 which will be my primary focus. Thanks again for being part of the forum.

 

[Cali Baby]

I live in Southern California in Newport Beach. I own my property with NO mortgage. But I still have to also pay my property taxes which is hefty, my home. owners expenses, insurance and it ALL adds up. My car is all paid off so at least I don't have that expense but insurance, gas, etc. is very expensive in California. I watch every single penny and track everything in Quicken and I still spend about $4,700 USD a month.

I am VERY fortunate that I purchased my condo MANY years ago. As others have mentioned several times in various threads, it is essential to BUY a property in a good area. Over time in desirable areas, you will always come out ahead buying vs. renting. Especially with inflation these days. I'd think in a town like Buenos Aires, it especially makes sense heading into retirement or even if you're younger in life. Real estate is very cheap there now for the quality of a city it is. It's a no brainer at these price levels. The only caveat is to make sure you know what you're doing and using good people. My friend bought an apartment in Buenos Aires several years ago and she thought it was a "slam dunk" as the realtor spoke English and there were many issues with the property but she had NO recourse. The legal system doesn't work there. She tried to sue the realtor and the owner to no avail. It turns out the realtor, the owner and the lawyer they recommended were all related!

I've been enrolled in Medicare for the past three years. Contrary to the belief that it's "comprehensive," the reality is quite different. Several doctors and clinics do not accept it, often leading to additional out-of-pocket expenses. There's also a monthly charge for necessary "additions," and wait times for certain services can be lengthy.

Just for Medicare Part B alone, the US government deducts $200 from my Social Security payment every month. The online information might paint a favorable picture, but the actual experience of Medicare doesn't align with that portrayal. People on this forum are dreaming if they think life in the USA is affordable. I'd ask them to outline ALL expenses in a spreadsheet. My guess is they have NOT lived in the USA for quite some time and have no idea of actual expenses today.

Medicaid eligibility is limited to individuals earning less than $19,000 a year, which leaves a significant gap in coverage for many.

It's unfortunate that a substantial portion of the homeless population in the USA, despite being beneficiaries of both Medicare and Social Security, still struggle to afford housing. This emphasizes the challenges and limitations within these systems that go beyond what is often depicted.

 

[Colin]

Strictly from an economic and financial perspective, the contrast in what $3,000 USD can buy in Argentina versus the US is undeniable. Although certain items like clothing and electronics might be relatively pricey by international standards in Argentina, the majority of other essentials—such as housing, services, food, healthcare, and public transportation—are notably more affordable.

Naturally, relocating to a different country involves various cultural and personal challenges, making it an option that might not suit everyone. However, my emphasis was solely on the financial aspect.

Even when considering subsidized housing in the US, the cost in dollars surpasses that of standard rent in Argentina by a significant margin.

 

[Starfish]

I previously owned my home in Arizona without any mortgage. However, my social security check fell short of covering my monthly expenses. Staying in the States wouldn't have allowed me to retire comfortably; even with Medicare, a serious illness could easily lead to financial ruin. Hence, I made a deliberate decision to move. I now reside in Microcentro, Argentina, where I legally obtained permanent residency and purchased a pleasant apartment with the proceeds from selling my house.

Here, I have access to excellent health insurance that covers almost all of my needs. I've built a wonderful circle of friends and a fulfilling life that I couldn't have envisioned in the States. Not owning a car here is liberating, and with my social security check, I lead a very fulfilling life on $1500 a month. I indulge in dining out frequently, take private tango and Spanish lessons, and attend movies, concerts, shows, and milongas regularly. I've chosen a comfortable life over an extravagant address and cherish the richness of experiences this lifestyle offers.

 

[sergio]

Strictly from an economic and financial perspective, the contrast in what $3,000 USD can buy in Argentina versus the US is undeniable. Although certain items like clothing and electronics might be relatively pricey by international standards in Argentina, the majority of other essentials—such as housing, services, food, healthcare, and public transportation—are notably more affordable.

Naturally, relocating to a different country involves various cultural and personal challenges, making it an option that might not suit everyone. However, my emphasis was solely on the financial aspect.

Even when considering subsidized housing in the US, the cost in dollars surpasses that of standard rent in Argentina by a significant margin.

Medicare covers medical expenses. You have not even addressed the issue of the difficulty of someone 65+ even being accepted by an Argentine medical plan. Subsidized housing as I understand it is a modest % of one's income. How easy is it for someone with no network in Argentina to get long-term housing? Are you sure it would be cheaper than subsidized housing? Yes, at this time USD 3,000 is a very good income in Argentina. The question is whether a move would be justified, especially given the medical care issues and the uncertainty of future economic conditions.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Medicare covers medical expenses. You have not even addressed the issue of the difficulty of someone 65+ even being accepted by an Argentine medical plan. Subsidized housing as I understand it is a modest % of one's income. How easy is it for someone with no network in Argentina to get long-term housing? Are you sure it would be cheaper than subsidized housing? Yes, at this time USD 3,000 is a very good income in Argentina. The question is whether a move would be justified, especially given the medical care issues and the uncertainty of future economic conditions.

I'm uncertain about your situation, but your perspective seems to derive from assumptions based solely on reading rather than lived experiences in both places. In my case, having spent 47 years in the US and 19 years in Buenos Aires, I can confidently assert that your understanding of the situation might be limited.

Repeatedly, you persist in affirming certain viewpoints, despite multiple individuals who have firsthand experiences in both locations providing details that counter your claims. You seem to hunt for flaws in our explanations but are unable to find any.

For instance, you mention, "There are many less expensive cities and towns across the huge USA where people on lower incomes can live," but you fail to consider whether residing in these places would offer a comparable standard of living to living here in Buenos Aires.

Regarding health insurance for those aged 65+, I can affirm that it is attainable. Although it might cost more than Medicare, the overall expenses in other aspects here would outweigh that difference. Additionally, in dire circumstances where payments cannot be made, healthcare in Argentina is available for free.

You've repeatedly emphasized that living in the US on $3000/month is feasible. However, you overlook whether such a life would be desirable or bearable. I understand that the $3000 figure was mentioned for comparison purposes, but it's crucial to acknowledge that many expats here do not have that amount. In fact, the average Social Security payment is half of that figure, and I myself receive even less.

 

[VINO]

I'm uncertain about your situation, but your perspective seems to derive from assumptions based solely on reading rather than lived experiences in both places. In my case, having spent 47 years in the US and 19 years in Buenos Aires, I can confidently assert that your understanding of the situation might be limited.

Repeatedly, you persist in affirming certain viewpoints, despite multiple individuals who have firsthand experiences in both locations providing details that counter your claims. You seem to hunt for flaws in our explanations but are unable to find any.

For instance, you mention, "There are many less expensive cities and towns across the huge USA where people on lower incomes can live," but you fail to consider whether residing in these places would offer a comparable standard of living to living here in Buenos Aires.

Regarding health insurance for those aged 65+, I can affirm that it is attainable. Although it might cost more than Medicare, the overall expenses in other aspects here would outweigh that difference. Additionally, in dire circumstances where payments cannot be made, healthcare in Argentina is available for free.

You've repeatedly emphasized that living in the US on $3000/month is feasible. However, you overlook whether such a life would be desirable or bearable. I understand that the $3000 figure was mentioned for comparison purposes, but it's crucial to acknowledge that many expats here do not have that amount. In fact, the average Social Security payment is half of that figure, and I myself receive even less.

This resonates with reality. I know numerous individuals in the US relying solely on Social Security and a bit extra to get by. What I've observed is that they manage to streamline their monthly expenses to barely make ends meet, until unexpected expenses arise—like special assessments for their condos, car breakdowns, medical or dental issues, or roof leaks (actual incidents from friends' lives). At such moments, their only hope lies in the support of a family member or a generous friend who can provide financial assistance.

Moreover, they're not residing in a sophisticated, pedestrian-friendly, or glamorous city by any means. The challenges they face have been exacerbated by the recent inflation, making their situations even more challenging.

Something tells me people that think it is so easy have NOT lived in the USA for over a decade.

 

[Starfish]

Medicare covers medical expenses. You have not even addressed the issue of the difficulty of someone 65+ even being accepted by an Argentine medical plan. Subsidized housing as I understand it is a modest % of one's income. How easy is it for someone with no network in Argentina to get long-term housing? Are you sure it would be cheaper than subsidized housing? Yes, at this time USD 3,000 is a very good income in Argentina. The question is whether a move would be justified, especially given the medical care issues and the uncertainty of future economic conditions.

What makes the situation in Argentina appear more uncertain than that in the United States? I've tackled the issue of health insurance myself. Even at 73, I managed to acquire pretty good health insurance with the aid of a lawyer friend. Purchasing housing here isn't an issue if you have the necessary funds. I'm not aware of any subsidized housing programs for expats. However, in case of financial hardship, I'm aware that I can access FREE healthcare at a public hospital—completely free of charge.

 

[Calgary Foodie]

We intend to spend a few months in Buenos Aires next year to gauge how much we enjoy living there. As part of this plan, I was considering visiting a facility such as the Hospital Italiano for a comprehensive checkup and paying for it privately. Would that be a reasonable approach? Additionally, what are the costs associated with obtaining good health insurance in Buenos Aires?

 

[Cerveza]

I know a wonderful lady, turning 91, who is in excellent health. She's currently selling her condo to transition into a rental because her condo association in Boston imposed a $53,000 new roof special assessment in the building, which exceeds her limited cash resources. Fortunately, she's mentally sharp enough to manage this move, but it's disheartening to witness someone her age being compelled to leave her home due to such circumstances.

 

[Frosted Flakes]

I'm uncertain about your situation, but your perspective seems to derive from assumptions based solely on reading rather than lived experiences in both places. In my case, having spent 47 years in the US and 19 years in Buenos Aires, I can confidently assert that your understanding of the situation might be limited.

Repeatedly, you persist in affirming certain viewpoints, despite multiple individuals who have firsthand experiences in both locations providing details that counter your claims. You seem to hunt for flaws in our explanations but are unable to find any.

For instance, you mention, "There are many less expensive cities and towns across the huge USA where people on lower incomes can live," but you fail to consider whether residing in these places would offer a comparable standard of living to living here in Buenos Aires.

Regarding health insurance for those aged 65+, I can affirm that it is attainable. Although it might cost more than Medicare, the overall expenses in other aspects here would outweigh that difference. Additionally, in dire circumstances where payments cannot be made, healthcare in Argentina is available for free.

You've repeatedly emphasized that living in the US on $3000/month is feasible. However, you overlook whether such a life would be desirable or bearable. I understand that the $3000 figure was mentioned for comparison purposes, but it's crucial to acknowledge that many expats here do not have that amount. In fact, the average Social Security payment is half of that figure, and I myself receive even less.

Whether someone finds happiness living in one place versus another is influenced by various personal factors and individual preferences.

When you sought information on affording life in the US with a low income, including a $1500/month budget, I provided an extensive list of benefits that could indeed make it financially viable. By "possible," I meant not having to worry about medical expenses, food, or housing costs. The choice between Buenos Aires and a location in the US relies on personal preferences—some may strongly agree with your viewpoint, while others may not.

Your criticism of OP seems hypocritical because, in stating your opinions, you're also making several assumptions. Merely having lived in the US for 47 years and 19 years in Buenos Aires doesn't inherently make someone more qualified to determine what is financially viable or what others prefer. Based on the benefits I've outlined, I know retired individuals who live comfortably with lower incomes than yours. Conversely, I'm aware of younger couples in the same US city making over $200,000 annually and still expressing financial difficulties.

 

[Frosted Flakes]

I know a wonderful lady, turning 91, who is in excellent health. She's currently selling her condo to transition into a rental because her condo association in Boston imposed a $53,000 new roof special assessment in the building, which exceeds her limited cash resources. Fortunately, she's mentally sharp enough to manage this move, but it's disheartening to witness someone her age being compelled to leave her home due to such circumstances.

If she's facing a $53,000 new roof assessment, her condo's value is probably substantial enough for her to potentially arrange a home equity solution to cover this expense without impacting her existing cash flow. The ongoing appreciation of her condo could likely counterbalance that $53,000.

I'm making certain assumptions here, which I believe are reasonable. However, if she has already utilized all her home equity, that presents a different scenario. Nonetheless, this situation alone doesn't necessarily reflect her other financial decisions or imply that she would be in a better situation if she had chosen to live elsewhere.

 

[Vince]

One thing that astounds me about Argentina is my father-in-law's recent experience with a tumor. He underwent tumor removal surgery a few months ago. He checked into the hospital on Monday and was walking home by Friday. Besides the skilled doctors and advanced technology, no one discussed finances or money during the process. It wasn't a concern at all. This country offers not just excellent medical care but also great food, clean air, a wonderful lifestyle, and a fantastic atmosphere.

If you are in your 50s, living on a modest income but own a property, I would consider moving here. This seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Ha. I seriously doubt you are going to find such lower prices in many major metropolitan cities. For people that say you can get really nice places for cheap. Can you post listings so we can see? They are probably in the ghetto or something. Show me the money baby! My sister lives in Houston in a nothing special property and neighborhood and she is paying MUCH more than that. Is this the ghetto?