Is the Expat party in Buenos Aires coming to an end?

[Bob]

Medicare expenses in the USA fluctuate based on individual earnings. Having been self-employed since 1975, I contributed less initially and now pay more. Despite Medicare coverage, it doesn't encompass all medical expenses, and from what I've observed among most seniors (I'm 70), healthcare costs persist, often resulting in thousands of dollars in additional annual expenses beyond Medicare. While this might startle individuals from the UK, it's an undeniable reality in the USA—many seniors, despite having Medicare, encounter financial hardship due to exorbitant medical bills.

Residing in the USA part-time, I can attest that an annual income of $25,000 would essentially place you at or below the poverty line in most areas.
The country harbors several hundred thousand homeless individuals, some of whom receive Social Security or VA benefits yet remain unable to afford housing. The national average price of a new home stands at $430,000, with significantly higher figures in most urban areas. For instance, in Seattle, where one of my sons resides, the average reaches $800,000, though it's misleading as homes under $350,000 are scarce. Private health insurance costs approximately $9,000 annually for a young, healthy individual without pre-existing conditions. However, there are deductibles, usually ranging from 3 to 5 thousand dollars additionally.

I've encountered expats here who received healthcare, including surgeries, at public hospitals without more than a 90-day visa. While there might be a wait and expenses for X-rays and medication, it's a far cry from the healthcare costs in the USA, which could run into tens of thousands of dollars for the same procedures.

Thanks for posting about you meeting expats that are receiving healthcare benefits there in Argentina. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Argentina is a very poor country and I think it's admirable that they are taking care of everyone. But I'm not sure if a poor country like Argentina should be paying for tourists medical bills.

Rightly or wrongly, it sounds like Javier Milei, the new president will end a lot of these programs and also letting Mercosur students come to study free in Argentina. Argentina can't even afford to pay for it's own citizens university so I'm not sure they should be subsidizing all of South America to study here or paying for American tourists medical bills. That doesn't sit right with me from a fiscal perspective.

I am thinking of moving to Buenos Aires for lifestyle reasons as there is NO doubt to me that I can't afford to live in the USA on what I will spend in Argentina. Like many of you mentioned, my plan is to buy a small apartment in either Recoleta or a nice part of Palermo. I arrived a few days ago and love those two neighborhoods. It is cheaper in Villa Crespo but I don't like the vibe as much. I'm afraid it will get too gentrified and the graffiti is some areas is very bad. Already in Soho it is quite bad. I like Palermo Hollywood but I don't think I can afford it there. The apartments I liked were i newish buildings and it was beyond my budget.

This is a great forum. Thanks everyone for sharing info.

 

[earlyretirement]

Thanks for posting about you meeting expats that are receiving healthcare benefits there in Argentina. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Argentina is a very poor country and I think it's admirable that they are taking care of everyone. But I'm not sure if a poor country like Argentina should be paying for tourists medical bills.

Rightly or wrongly, it sounds like Javier Milei, the new president will end a lot of these programs and also letting Mercosur students come to study free in Argentina. Argentina can't even afford to pay for it's own citizens university so I'm not sure they should be subsidizing all of South America to study here or paying for American tourists medical bills. That doesn't sit right with me from a fiscal perspective.

I am thinking of moving to Buenos Aires for lifestyle reasons as there is NO doubt to me that I can't afford to live in the USA on what I will spend in Argentina. Like many of you mentioned, my plan is to buy a small apartment in either Recoleta or a nice part of Palermo. I arrived a few days ago and love those two neighborhoods. It is cheaper in Villa Crespo but I don't like the vibe as much. I'm afraid it will get too gentrified and the graffiti is some areas is very bad. Already in Soho it is quite bad. I like Palermo Hollywood but I don't think I can afford it there. The apartments I liked were i newish buildings and it was beyond my budget.

This is a great forum. Thanks everyone for sharing info.

Hi @Bob . Thanks for posting. Can I ask you how you found this forum?

I agree with you that Argentina needs to take a serious look and evaluate cutting spending. They simply can NOT afford to do many of the things they are doing. I do NOT agree with everything Javier Milei says or does and told him that to his face and told his staff that as well when I met with him a few weeks ago. I feel like it's going to get ugly. I've always maintained it's going to get worse before it gets better.

I disagreed with him that he would easily be able to dollarize the economy. Many bloggers and even companies that I advise for, told me it would be easier but I disagreed and now we are seeing it play out it's EXACTLY how I said it would be.

Most people simply do NOT understand Argentina. I'm in a unique position from investing so much money here, starting many businesses, mostly working with foreign investors, legally bringing in a lot of money for foreign individuals and companies, building a hotel and exiting successfully to a foreign multi-national company.

It's going to be a tough road ahead for Argentina. But Argentina definitely needed a change, IMHO.

I agree with you about Villa Crespo. I don't really like it or Palermo Soho anymore. I was responsible for developing much of Palermo Soho and I truly regret my role in creating "Disneyland" of Palermo. If you can afford it, Recoleta is the best neighborhood for overall living. I also like more authentic parts of Palermo. Check out my website if you're interested in buying. There is a lot of FREE information there as well as every single real estate related article on Buenos Aires real estate - https://buysellba.com/

Cheers.

 

[Jeep]

I live very comfortably in Buenos Aires on about $1,000 US dollars per month. I was fortunate/smart enough to purchase my own apartment many years ago when it was very cheap. Ironically, I saw many Americans buying apartments back in 2003 after the financial crash. It was @earlyretirement that started a company that many foreigners were buying apartments and I couldn't believe that they were all full! Back in that time, the prices for a 1 bedroom apartment were about $150 US dollars each night and I saw it was always full.

I am originally from the United States. I know that there would be NO way I could survive in my home state of less than about $3,800 US dollars per month. It doesn't matter if I was getting food stamps, or other benefits. I've investigated going back to the USA a few times for various reasons including my kids having babies and being closer to my grandchildren. But in the end, it would be impossible for me to survive on my social security payment.

Very few places around the world would I be able to afford and certainly NO city with the lifestyle of Buenos Aires. Once you have a paid-off property, you can live in Argentina on not much money. My monthly expenses is very low and my utilities are almost nothing. I only use AC in the hottest months and don't need to use the heater. The water is included with my monthly HOA.

I read it a few times online but if you want to live in Buenos Aires long-term and you are an expat you MUST own a property here to stay for the long term. It's very difficult as it's all cash and no mortgages but fortunately I sold my apartment in the USA and I am fortunate that I purchased an apartment.

I completely agree with you. The USA has gotten too expensive. They talk about inflation only being X% but it is a lie. I lived in California in Orange County and gas and food prices are crazy now. It was expensive over a decade ago when I lived there. Now there is NO way I could afford to live there. They happen to strip out this out of the inflation #s! And my old place I used to live in is now $3,200 US per month to rent.

 

[Marleny]

I live very comfortably in Buenos Aires on about $1,000 US dollars per month. I was fortunate/smart enough to purchase my own apartment many years ago when it was very cheap. Ironically, I saw many Americans buying apartments back in 2003 after the financial crash. It was @earlyretirement that started a company that many foreigners were buying apartments and I couldn't believe that they were all full! Back in that time, the prices for a 1 bedroom apartment were about $150 US dollars each night and I saw it was always full.

I am originally from the United States. I know that there would be NO way I could survive in my home state of less than about $3,800 US dollars per month. It doesn't matter if I was getting food stamps, or other benefits. I've investigated going back to the USA a few times for various reasons including my kids having babies and being closer to my grandchildren. But in the end, it would be impossible for me to survive on my social security payment.

Very few places around the world would I be able to afford and certainly NO city with the lifestyle of Buenos Aires. Once you have a paid-off property, you can live in Argentina on not much money. My monthly expenses is very low and my utilities are almost nothing. I only use AC in the hottest months and don't need to use the heater. The water is included with my monthly HOA.

I read it a few times online but if you want to live in Buenos Aires long-term and you are an expat you MUST own a property here to stay for the long term. It's very difficult as it's all cash and no mortgages but fortunately I sold my apartment in the USA and I am fortunate that I purchased an apartment.

Wait?! You couldn't afford to live in the USA where you live on $3,800 USD per month? This can't be correct. Can it?

Forgive my ignorance as I have lived in Argentina my entire life. I have been to the USA a few times on vacation but I can't imagine how someone that owns their own property can't afford to live if they have $3,800 US per month and already own your own home. This is hard to believe for me as that seems like an enormous amount of money for us locals.

 

[Vero]

Wait?! You couldn't afford to live in the USA where you live on $3,800 USD per month? This can't be correct. Can it?

Forgive my ignorance as I have lived in Argentina my entire life. I have been to the USA a few times on vacation but I can't imagine how someone that owns their own property can't afford to live if they have $3,800 US per month and already own your own home. This is hard to believe for me as that seems like an enormous amount of money for us locals.

Yes this is exactly correct. There is NO way I could afford to live in the USA in Los Angeles where I am originally from. My kids live in Los Angeles and I would want to be near them. That would be my main motivation to move to the USA to be near my grandkids. I'd LOVE to see my grandkids more than the once a year when I go at Christmas to visit them a few weeks. And the only reason I can afford to visit is my daughter buys my airline ticket to visit and I stay in their house.

Living with my adult daughter is not an option as they don't have an extra bedroom and her two kids already share a bedroom.

Here you can see the average cost of an apartment in Los Angeles is about $2,700 USD - https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ca/los-angeles/

But even assume that I fully own a paid-off place the property tax would be at least $600 per month.

Then add in utilities and it would be another $800 per month (at least. My daughter says I'm dreaming if I only budget $800/month for all utilities). We are already at $1,400

Then add in these things:

- Car payment $300/month

- Medical insurance - I don't want to know! But just for grins and giggles let's dream and say I could find something with Covered California to get subsidized insurance for $500/month

- Food and groceries probably at least $1,000/month minimum

- Car insurance and gas - $700/month

- Internet and cable - $100/month

- HOA - $300/ month

- Cell phone - $100/month


You get the idea? I'm already at $4,400 per month. And there are probably 2 dozen more categories to add. I have done the math 100 times and I can't live in Los Angeles near my daughter and grandkids unless someone subsidizes it.

I have health issues now so I may be uninsurable. Fortunately I've been on OSDE for many years and I have a reasonable plan. People are really kidding themselves about how expensive the USA is in many major cities.

 

[Marleny]

Yes this is exactly correct. There is NO way I could afford to live in the USA in Los Angeles where I am originally from. My kids live in Los Angeles and I would want to be near them. That would be my main motivation to move to the USA to be near my grandkids. I'd LOVE to see my grandkids more than the once a year when I go at Christmas to visit them a few weeks. And the only reason I can afford to visit is my daughter buys my airline ticket to visit and I stay in their house.

Living with my adult daughter is not an option as they don't have an extra bedroom and her two kids already share a bedroom.

Here you can see the average cost of an apartment in Los Angeles is about $2,700 USD - https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ca/los-angeles/

But even assume that I fully own a paid-off place the property tax would be at least $600 per month.

Then add in utilities and it would be another $800 per month (at least. My daughter says I'm dreaming if I only budget $800/month for all utilities). We are already at $1,400

Then add in these things:

- Car payment $300/month

- Medical insurance - I don't want to know! But just for grins and giggles let's dream and say I could find something with Covered California to get subsidized insurance for $500/month

- Food and groceries probably at least $1,000/month minimum

- Car insurance and gas - $700/month

- Internet and cable - $100/month

- HOA - $300/ month

- Cell phone - $100/month


You get the idea? I'm already at $4,400 per month. And there are probably 2 dozen more categories to add. I have done the math 100 times and I can't live in Los Angeles near my daughter and grandkids unless someone subsidizes it.

I have health issues now so I may be uninsurable. Fortunately I've been on OSDE for many years and I have a reasonable plan. People are really kidding themselves about how expensive the USA is in many major cities.

Oh my Lord! I had NO idea the United States was so expensive to live in. We always think the grass is greener on the other side but I didn't understand when people say they need to come to my country to retire. That seems crazy to me. I own my apartment in Recoleta for 30 years. I have very little expenses and fortunately there is no doorman in my building so the expenses are very little.

You say you have health problems. Can you get insurance in Argentina if you are older and have health issues? I didn't know Americans were coming to Argentina and using our hospitals! That is surprising to hear. Can someone my age at 67 years old come to Buenos Aires and get medical insurance for a good price?

 

[Wally]

Oh my Lord! I had NO idea the United States was so expensive to live in. We always think the grass is greener on the other side but I didn't understand when people say they need to come to my country to retire. That seems crazy to me. I own my apartment in Recoleta for 30 years. I have very little expenses and fortunately there is no doorman in my building so the expenses are very little.

You say you have health problems. Can you get insurance in Argentina if you are older and have health issues? I didn't know Americans were coming to Argentina and using our hospitals! That is surprising to hear. Can someone my age at 67 years old come to Buenos Aires and get medical insurance for a good price?

My best friend has been living in Argentina for a long time. He is 73 years old and he first got his DNI many years ago and he was over 65 and he has been with Hospital Italiano for several years. He pays about $125 US dollars per month. I was researching as I may bring my mother to Buenos Aires if my wife and I are able to have a child. I was inquiring and I believe it's one of the few plans where someone over 65 can get insurance. Others didn't offer it or was very expensive. Like OSDE or Swiss Medical.

 

[Aussieland]

Wait?! You couldn't afford to live in the USA where you live on $3,800 USD per month? This can't be correct. Can it?

Forgive my ignorance as I have lived in Argentina my entire life. I have been to the USA a few times on vacation but I can't imagine how someone that owns their own property can't afford to live if they have $3,800 US per month and already own your own home. This is hard to believe for me as that seems like an enormous amount of money for us locals.

Returning to own the home I previously owned in the USA no way I could afford it on $3,800 USD! Definitely not feasible! It would necessitate owning a car, with taxes exceeding $8,000 annually (and increasing).

During my return from Argentina to sell the house, I was incurring an $100 per month electric bill solely for the refrigerator/freezer. Considering it was a rural setting with no industry, stores, or supermarkets in the town, transportation became essential. The heating bill soared to $450 or more for at least 5 months annually. Moreover, I'd have to start paying for Medicare soon.


Going back there, affording a house would be beyond my means. Renting would be the only viable option, and in the vicinity where my family and friends reside (the primary reason for contemplating the move), the minimum cost would hover around $2300 per month, excluding utilities. I'd still require a vehicle, food/dining out, and health insurance.

Fortunately, I was fortunate to be here on vacation last year when I underwent a necessary quadruple bypass surgery.
If there's a way to make the financial aspects work in central Connecticut, I'd be eager to explore it!

 

[Canada Goose]

My best friend has been living in Argentina for a long time. He is 73 years old and he first got his DNI many years ago and he was over 65 and he has been with Hospital Italiano for several years. He pays about $125 US dollars per month. I was researching as I may bring my mother to Buenos Aires if my wife and I are able to have a child. I was inquiring and I believe it's one of the few plans where someone over 65 can get insurance. Others didn't offer it or was very expensive. Like OSDE or Swiss Medical.

I also heard this. I guess it would be smart for expats to get insurance here before they get too old. Does anyone know if you have to have a DNI or permanent residency before you can buy health insurance? I guess that would be one reason to get your permanent residency that I never thought of! I thought I would just buy a place and not really worry about healthcare as I heard hospitals will take you free even if you're a tourist. But today a friend told. me those hospitals aren't that good. I'm not sure what the truth is but I guess it would be crazy not to have medical coverage here.


Those consider moving here that are 65+ years old should consider about health insurance and probably even those that are younger. I wonder if they would take you today if you applied at age 70+?

 

[sergio]

I'm not sure about the costs in your area, but I personally know individuals residing in major East Coast US cities who manage without owning or requiring a car. They own their homes (mostly condos), have Medicare, and sustain themselves on moderate incomes. However, in Argentina, residing outside Buenos Aires would indeed need to own a car.

 

[Aussieland]

I'm not sure about the costs in your area, but I personally know individuals residing in major East Coast US cities who manage without owning or requiring a car. They own their homes (mostly condos), have Medicare, and sustain themselves on moderate incomes. However, in Argentina, residing outside Buenos Aires would indeed need to own a car.

Show me the numbers! And besides New York City, I can't imagine a place where you can reasonably live without having a car. You'd spend a fortune in Uber getting around!

I owned a home in a beautiful rural part of Massachusetts but as mentioned, NO way I could afford a home there now and the cost of real estate has skyrocketed since COVID.

But please @sergio show me the numbers baby! Show me and list out ALL expenses how you can live on the Northeast on $3,500 a month. I'd have to do it on $1,000 a month as that is what my retirement check is.

 

[Pink Panther]

Show me the numbers! And besides New York City, I can't imagine a place where you can reasonably live without having a car. You'd spend a fortune in Uber getting around!

I owned a home in a beautiful rural part of Massachusetts but as mentioned, NO way I could afford a home there now and the cost of real estate has skyrocketed since COVID.

But please @sergio show me the numbers baby! Show me and list out ALL expenses how you can live on the Northeast on $3,500 a month. I'd have to do it on $1,000 a month as that is what my retirement check is.

And this is yet another reason why all over the world the middle class is totally decimated. Totally destroyed.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Show me the numbers! And besides New York City, I can't imagine a place where you can reasonably live without having a car. You'd spend a fortune in Uber getting around!

I owned a home in a beautiful rural part of Massachusetts but as mentioned, NO way I could afford a home there now and the cost of real estate has skyrocketed since COVID.

But please @sergio show me the numbers baby! Show me and list out ALL expenses how you can live on the Northeast on $3,500 a month. I'd have to do it on $1,000 a month as that is what my retirement check is.

You can get over that $3,000 amount if you include the following benefits:

SNAP (food stamp) benefit $291

Additional SSI benefit of up to $914

Medicaid (basically everything is covered for free including drugs if you can't afford. They will even pay you to go get preventative care in the form of a prepaid debit card for each activity you checkoff...)

Free phone and internet access with LifeLine and ACP

Senior discounts for various things including public transit, museums, stores, etc...

Some government programs help with energy cost especially in the winter

 

[David]

My best friend has been living in Argentina for a long time. He is 73 years old and he first got his DNI many years ago and he was over 65 and he has been with Hospital Italiano for several years. He pays about $125 US dollars per month. I was researching as I may bring my mother to Buenos Aires if my wife and I are able to have a child. I was inquiring and I believe it's one of the few plans where someone over 65 can get insurance. Others didn't offer it or was very expensive. Like OSDE or Swiss Medical.

May I inquire about its coverage? Does it include dental and vision care in addition to medical services? Have you ever thought about directly paying for private healthcare services? I'm contemplating these options for myself.

 

[Wally]

May I inquire about its coverage? Does it include dental and vision care in addition to medical services? Have you ever thought about directly paying for private healthcare services? I'm contemplating these options for myself.

That's a great question. I asked for my parents and it was only for medical coverage. No dental. I believe you can buy dental insurance but the locals don't really seem to take good care of their teeth. It's not like in the USA where people go for cleanings every 6 months. Most of my local friends I met go to the dentist too often like we do in the USA. I just pay privately when I go to the dentist. It's not that expensive.

 

[Avocado]

And this is yet another reason why all over the world the middle class is totally decimated. Totally destroyed.

Here's an alternative perspective on this matter: Individuals increasingly depend on government support to sustain a middle-class standard of living. This reliance has grown due to consistent voting for politicians and policies that enable corporations to offer lower salaries while relying on government benefits to bridge the gap. Consequently, many of these individuals experience a lifestyle akin to what the middle class had years ago. With thorough knowledge and utilization of various government and charitable resources, even those categorized as "the poor" can certainly achieve a lifestyle resembling the lower spectrum of the middle class, especially through education about available support avenues.

 

[CaribbeanCool]

You can get over that $3,000 amount if you include the following benefits:

SNAP (food stamp) benefit $291

Additional SSI benefit of up to $914

Medicaid (basically everything is covered for free including drugs if you can't afford. They will even pay you to go get preventative care in the form of a prepaid debit card for each activity you checkoff...)

Free phone and internet access with LifeLine and ACP

Senior discounts for various things including public transit, museums, stores, etc...

Some government programs help with energy cost especially in the winter

Maybe but I only get $1,800 per month which would be reduced by the cost that I would need to pay for Medicaid. And besides even with those benefits, things would always be super tight! You would always be worrying. At least I know I would be. I'm barely getting by even in Buenos Aires. I've made some poor decisions finally in life. I'm paying for it now.

 

[Daniela]

In my case, I made a conscious decision to come to Argentina at age 47 so I could stop working in a job that paid well but that I hated. Had I stayed, I would have worked, probably until last year, and I'm sure that I'd now be very comfortably retired in the US (if I didn't die first from stress).

But having had the experience of being able to stop working for a paycheck at 47 and having all those extra years to do what I wanted to do, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

[Betsy Ross]

That's a great question. I asked for my parents and it was only for medical coverage. No dental. I believe you can buy dental insurance but the locals don't really seem to take good care of their teeth. It's not like in the USA where people go for cleanings every 6 months. Most of my local friends I met go to the dentist too often like we do in the USA. I just pay privately when I go to the dentist. It's not that expensive.

I just pay privately for dental work. But to be honest if it's too expensive I just put it off. I don't go to the dentist nearly as often in the USA where I had great dental coverage with my previous employer.

I recently had a few eye exams and I paid about $10 USD each and I could get in ASAP and no waiting in the office unlike the USA where I'd have to wait for an hour. The healthcare in the USA is totally broken! No respect for our time. Yet, if I cancel or late they would charge me!

 

[Pink Panther]

In my case, I made a conscious decision to come to Argentina at age 47 so I could stop working in a job that paid well but that I hated. Had I stayed, I would have worked, probably until last year, and I'm sure that I'd now be very comfortably retired in the US (if I didn't die first from stress).

But having had the experience of being able to stop working for a paycheck at 47 and having all those extra years to do what I wanted to do, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

I came here at 55 because I was basically unemployable in the United States. I couldn't find a job and no one wanted to hire a middle aged person. I was in danger of losing my home because I was late on my property taxes. Argentina has been very good for me. Not always good to me! But definitely good for me! I think if I was still in the USA, I would have committed suicide!