Is the Expat party in Buenos Aires coming to an end?

[Colin]

One thing that astounds me about Argentina is my father-in-law's recent experience with a tumor. He underwent tumor removal surgery a few months ago. He checked into the hospital on Monday and was walking home by Friday. Besides the skilled doctors and advanced technology, no one discussed finances or money during the process. It wasn't a concern at all. This country offers not just excellent medical care but also great food, clean air, a wonderful lifestyle, and a fantastic atmosphere.

If you are in your 50s, living on a modest income but own a property, I would consider moving here. This seems like a no brainer to me.

Would it equally astonish you to learn that a 64-year-old received a liver transplant in the USA, and all the medical expenses before and after the transplant, including ongoing medication, are fully covered by government-sponsored free insurance? Additionally, the government provides free Home Health Aide services in this scenario.

 

[Avocado]

Would it equally astonish you to learn that a 64-year-old received a liver transplant in the USA, and all the medical expenses before and after the transplant, including ongoing medication, are fully covered by government-sponsored free insurance? Additionally, the government provides free Home Health Aide services in this scenario.

This sounds amazing!! But almost sounds too good to be true. I always hear how horrible the USA healthcare system is for those that aren't paying. I never heard anyone talking about this. Can you enlighten us how this works?

 

[Colin]

This sounds amazing!! But almost sounds too good to be true. I always hear how horrible the USA healthcare system is for those that aren't paying. I never heard anyone talking about this. Can you enlighten us how this works?

It's the Medicaid program in the USA. - https://www.medicaid.gov/

People often express dissatisfaction with exorbitant medical and college tuition expenses. While it's understandable to voice concerns when faced with such high costs, many who complain might manage to afford them by reordering their priorities. However, the truth remains that if someone genuinely cannot afford these expenses, there are avenues to obtain them for free. Medical care and college tuition can be obtained without cost. It's crucial to be aware of available programs and apply for them.

For instance, here are some programs available to New York residents, although most are national programs or have equivalents in other states:

• Medicaid: Provides free medical care, including medications, and can even offer some monetary benefits, around $200 per month.
• The Excelsior Scholarship: Offers free college tuition for individuals earning less than $125,000 annually.
• SSI (Supplemental Security Income): Provides financial assistance, offering up to $914 per month for seniors or disabled individuals.
• SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program): Offers financial aid for food expenses, providing up to $291 per month for individuals.
• LifeLine: Offers a free phone line service.
• ACP (Affordable Connectivity Program): Provides free internet service.
• HEAP (Home Energy Assistance Program): Assists with heating costs.
• Fair Fares and Senior Discounts: Offer 50% off on transportation.
• Discounts on real estate tax for the elderly.

These programs can significantly alleviate the financial burden for those struggling to cover medical expenses or college tuition.

 

[retiredbanker]

It's the Medicaid program in the USA. - https://www.medicaid.gov/

People often express dissatisfaction with exorbitant medical and college tuition expenses. While it's understandable to voice concerns when faced with such high costs, many who complain might manage to afford them by reordering their priorities. However, the truth remains that if someone genuinely cannot afford these expenses, there are avenues to obtain them for free. Medical care and college tuition can be obtained without cost. It's crucial to be aware of available programs and apply for them.

For instance, here are some programs available to New York residents, although most are national programs or have equivalents in other states:

• Medicaid: Provides free medical care, including medications, and can even offer some monetary benefits, around $200 per month.
• The Excelsior Scholarship: Offers free college tuition for individuals earning less than $125,000 annually.
• SSI (Supplemental Security Income): Provides financial assistance, offering up to $914 per month for seniors or disabled individuals.
• SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program): Offers financial aid for food expenses, providing up to $291 per month for individuals.
• LifeLine: Offers a free phone line service.
• ACP (Affordable Connectivity Program): Provides free internet service.
• HEAP (Home Energy Assistance Program): Assists with heating costs.
• Fair Fares and Senior Discounts: Offer 50% off on transportation.
• Discounts on real estate tax for the elderly.

These programs can significantly alleviate the financial burden for those struggling to cover medical expenses or college tuition.

You're way off base. It's not FREE. People like me are paying a sh*t load of taxes so people can get their "FREE". That's how it works. NOTHING is FREE.

 

[Colin]

You're way off base. It's not FREE. People like me are paying a sh*t load of taxes so people can get their "FREE". That's how it works. NOTHING is FREE.

Certainly, that is true. Recipients of these benefits also play a crucial role in contributing to the economy through their purchases and utilization of various services. Even though economy class seats on a plane might not be the most profitable, they remain essential and contribute to the overall success of the airline. The corporate and tax revenues generated by these activities are then gathered and redirected toward other investments and innovations. It forms a cyclical process.

Determining who contributes or pays a fair amount lacks an objective answer because fairness is contingent on the facts one incorporates into their arguments, supporting their perception of what is fair. Likewise, there's no objective method to ascertain the precise amount the government should allocate towards these benefits.

 

[Che Vos]

Would it equally astonish you to learn that a 64-year-old received a liver transplant in the USA, and all the medical expenses before and after the transplant, including ongoing medication, are fully covered by government-sponsored free insurance? Additionally, the government provides free Home Health Aide services in this scenario.

It is so nice to hear that the USA will help with medical bills. This is exactly the opposite of friends I know! My parents are friends with an old retired American. He had medical issues and went to the hospital and he had to declare bankruptcy because he couldn't pay the bills. It's the opposite of what you are writing.

I find it strange that Americans come to Argentina to use our free hospitals. I am proud of my country that we take care of people free or for almost no cost. I used to complain about my country but the more I read online from expats how crazy your country is the more proud I am of my country.

 

[retiredbanker]

For many expats, the party was already over in 2016, when the peso was stuck at 15 to $1 USD.

In my opinion, as the peso strengthens gradually due to anticipated fiscal and monetary reforms, expatriates converting dollars may experience a decrease in purchasing power parity, creating an inverse relationship. Consequently, this shift could lead to higher relative costs for expats with dollar-based fixed incomes.

The economy, which has been significantly distorted for an extended period, appears to be undergoing a correction towards normalcy. This expectation is reflected in international financial markets, as evidenced by the one-month chart for Global X Funds - Global X MSCI Argentina ETF. The long, smooth economic ride experienced by economic refugees may be on the verge of change, and the speed of this transformation remains a key question.

 

[Man on the Moon]

This is all true. A glass of wine in NYC is easily U$S 15 or more plus 30% tax and tip. That's for a glass. The subway is U$S 2.90. London is £2.50 off peak zone 1 base fare which is more expensive. DON JULIO shouldn't be the metric. But if it must be, compare it with a place like Rules in London where a cocktail costs £18 - and there are far more expensive restaurants in London. Home prices? In the millions of £

I totally agree. The dolar blue/euro blue rates fail to accurately represent the 'true' value against the peso. The strength of USD and EUR has been artificially inflated due to imposed restrictions. It wouldn't be unexpected to see a 40-50% increase in expenses for individuals currently dependent on services like Western Union transactions in the coming year or two.

 

[earlyretirement]

I find it difficult to comprehend how anyone can genuinely believe that it's affordable here. The primary expenses, particularly food, have surged to unprecedented levels in US dollars. The cost of decent parillas has skyrocketed to a minimum of US $20 per person, and if you choose to dine at Don Julio, be prepared to shell out a hefty US $80 per person. Don Julio used to be an absolute steal until 2021, with a normal price of US $20, but now it has become four times more expensive.

@Larry you are totally wrong. Food is insanely cheap in Buenos Aires compared to the USA and other world capital cities.

Take a look at this thread - https://www.expatsba.com/threads/cost-of-restaurant-food-in-buenos-aires-december-2023.364/

But I will cut and paste here so for those that are lazy you can just stay in this thread. Food here is cheap! People like Larry complain when it's good and he complains when it's bad.


Here are a few photos of receipts I had of food a few weeks ago when I was in Buenos Aires to give you an idea of the per person cost of dining out.
Exchange rate was 1,000 pesos to $1 USD so around what it is now. Prices are without tip. I tip generously but you should add in 10% to your total.

This was for 2 people. Delicious pate appetizer, 2 gourmet burgers with fries, a bottled water and a Diet Pepsi. Less than $18 US or $9 @.

Picaron - One of my favorite restaurants (I posted a detailed review in the Food & Drink section of this website).

4 people and we ate like crazy. And my friends drank a nice bottle of wine so almost $13 of this is a bottle of wine. It was $77 US for 4 people or $19 @ each and this is at a very nice place that you have to have reservations well ahead of time to get in.

This is from Girabaldi Restaurant right on the water front in Costanera. (I put a detailed review of the restaurant in the Food & Drink section of this website).

This was for 4 people and we ate like pigs with several appetizers and 4 entrees. I paid $58 US dollars for 4 people or $14.50 US each.

Go to those reviews and you can see the massive amounts of food! People that are complaining about food costs here are totally insane. They are very cheap. I took my 3 kids and my wife for Ramen here in San Diego a few weeks ago and it was about $250 US dollars!

It's crazy cheap in Buenos Aires for really great quality food.

 

[Darksider415]

To add to what @earlyretirement said, a friend of ours was in town from Chaco and we went to Guerrin last night. Our total, including drinks, dessert and tip was 30k, which ain’t bad for 3 people.

 

[earlyretirement]

To add to what @earlyretirement said, a friend of ours was in town from Chaco and we went to Guerrin last night. Our total, including drinks, dessert and tip was 30k, which ain’t bad for 3 people.

Thanks awesome! I love those places. Yes, I realize for local standards many of these places are expensive. But I seriously take issue with expats that have USD and complaining about prices here being expensive for food. For sure it WILL get more expensive. That is inevitable. I haven't seen prices this cheap. Even at the bottom after the crash I can't remember going to higher end places for so cheap with inflation adjusted dollars.

 

[Colin]

Has anyone tried to do the type of reforms that Milei is suggesting Argentina needs to do? I genuinely don't know. If anyone can enlighten me?

 

[Betsy Ross]

Aside from the dollarization strategy, I believe India serves as a close model for transitioning from a high-tariff, relatively socialized economy to a lower-tariff, more privatized economic structure. In terms of dollarization, Ecuador stands out as the most evident comparison.

I honestly disagree with all of this doom and gloom about cost of living costs skyrocketing upwards in the near term. In fact, I think the next 2 years or so will be painful for the locals and if you continue to have USD hard currency you are going to be ok. The only wildcard is with rental prices. I can already see that going up tremendously but I think a big part of that mess was the archaic laws during COVID. I'm not sure that is a quick and easy fix and now that people have a taste of USD Airbnb rentals, I don't think they are going back.

 

[Man on the Moon]

In my view, numerous "shock therapy" initiatives undertaken in Eastern Europe post-communism collapse shared significant similarities. While dollarization wasn't a component, these endeavors centered around the privatization of inefficient state-run enterprises. Examples include the Balcerowicz Plan in Poland and the 500 Days Program in Russia.

The aftermath was far from a smooth journey, marked by a substantial immediate decline in the economy. I remember many distressed individuals expressing dissatisfaction, contending that there was an excess of shock and insufficient therapeutic measures.

 

[Betsy Ross]

I believe you will see quite a bit of substantial unemployment in many sectors. Especially in the Governmental sector. By all accounts, there are a lot of fake government employees on the payroll that don't actually do anything. You will see privatization layoffs. Domestic industries that depend on import tariff layoffs too. I don't believe the export sector can ramp up fast enough to absorb the employees. And I believe it's a fairy dream if you think that foreign capital will rush back quickly. I believe it will take a substantial amount of time to get that $$$ moving back into oil, mining, and gas.

 

[Avocado]

For the next year or two or 3 I am more worried about safety and security and crime. I can deal with increased cost of living. But if I can't go outside or I go to the store and everything is locked up. Or my car windows are all broken. Or people break into my PH. Then that is what I worry about.

 

[Fingerless]

For the next year or two or 3 I am more worried about safety and security and crime. I can deal with increased cost of living. But if I can't go outside or I go to the store and everything is locked up. Or my car windows are all broken. Or people break into my PH. Then that is what I worry about.

I agree! In a few years if things keep up I may really be fingerless! Seriously though I don't think things will get that bad. I think blue dollar will go back up. It will go back up after February. Wait and see.

 

[BuySellBA]

For all the expats here complaining about how expensive things are in Buenos Aires, it is still very affordable relative to costs in the USA. Groceries and dining out are extremely expensive in many capital cities and other major cities. Especially on the West Coast.

 

[earlyretirement]

For all the expats here complaining about how expensive things are in Buenos Aires, it is still very affordable relative to costs in the USA. Groceries and dining out are extremely expensive in many capital cities and other major cities. Especially on the West Coast.

I can personally relate to this. I live in San Diego much of the year which has become the #1 most expensive city in the USA now. It's painful going out to eat here with a family of 5 (wife and 3 kids). Often times we will spend. $400+ dollars for dinner out. And most lunches here are approaching $200 US dollars for a nothing special lunch by the time you add on tax and tip.

My wife and I went to dinner out last night at Javier's at UTC Mall yesterday with another couple. Our bill was $600 total so that came out to $300 @ couple. I think locals can complain about food costs in Buenos Aires but expats are in for the shock of their life when they come back to some major metropolitan cities in the USA. Life here has gotten really expensive.

I've lived and worked in Buenos Aires for the past 22 years. I definitely think you will see a purge of expats just like we have seen in other economic cycles there. The only ones that I know that have lasted the test of time and when costs get more expensive are those that were smart enough to buy properties there vs. renting.

San Diego ranks as most expensive US city with LA and Santa Barbara in the top five

San Diego was ranked the most expensive city in the nation to live in, followed by Los Angeles, by U.S. News and World Report’s 2023-2024 list.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Howard Stern]

I can personally relate to this. I live in San Diego much of the year which has become the #1 most expensive city in the USA now. It's painful going out to eat here with a family of 5 (wife and 3 kids). Often times we will spend. $400+ dollars for dinner out. And most lunches here are approaching $200 US dollars for a nothing special lunch by the time you add on tax and tip.

My wife and I went to dinner out last night at Javier's at UTC Mall yesterday with another couple. Our bill was $600 total so that came out to $300 @ couple. I think locals can complain about food costs in Buenos Aires but expats are in for the shock of their life when they come back to some major metropolitan cities in the USA. Life here has gotten really expensive.

I've lived and worked in Buenos Aires for the past 22 years. I definitely think you will see a purge of expats just like we have seen in other economic cycles there. The only ones that I know that have lasted the test of time and when costs get more expensive are those that were smart enough to buy properties there vs. renting.

San Diego ranks as most expensive US city with LA and Santa Barbara in the top five

San Diego was ranked the most expensive city in the nation to live in, followed by Los Angeles, by U.S. News and World Report’s 2023-2024 list.

www.usatoday.com

Yikes! I can't imagine living in the USA again. Too damn expensive!