Pobre Luis
Active member
I don't understand why do people invest in these kind of poor investments that. keep losing money.
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Javier Milei Launches Bitcoin Revolution in Argentina
import export
Well-known member
I would stay away from any other crypto besides Bitcoin. Even Bitcoin can drastically fall. In the past month it is down 19%. Still up big time for those that got in earlier but it can be very volatile. Something tells me if the stock market crashes and we go into recession these all are going to sink like a rock.
Nasdaq
Well-known member
Well not everyone is losing money in bitcoin. There are a lot of people that got in very low. My son got in at $20,000 per BTC in September 2022 which wasn't that long ago. I tried to tell him not to but he showed me. Now I just keep my mouth shut. It is up 32,000% in the past 10 years so not everyone is losing money in it.
MikeRoss
Well-known member
Heck even Bitcoin is getting killed. I wonder how low it will go. In a recession with everything selling off Bitcoin will probably get killed. I know people that rode Bitcoin up and having sold any when it goes higher and even have tons of debt and don't take their bitcoin to pay off debt. Seems nuts to me. Some are even taking loans against their Bitcoin.
StatusNomadicus
Well-known member
just think of it as NYC versus Tennessee
sure, for the Summer with all the tourists here for Vendimia etc. - but i suspect they will go back down. regardless, i have a paid-off house and can cook cheap rice and beef and buy cheap liters of beer for $1.60 USD - and i'm growing my own cannabis, so not too many expenses other than my big-eater dog
$15-120 USD per month so far depending on the heat and humidity (i was RUNNING my new LG Split allllll the time, and using a new washer-dryer, and a new deep freezer, etc.). i do think the subsidies have been getting removed, so costs are much higher. but still half the price of the USA in Dollars
yeah the tram or buses cost 70 cents USD each swipe. probably used to be almost free. but there are a lot of costs to "free" stuff, as you know with all the communism in Argentina. and no i don't pay for medical insurance because i don't need anything around age 40. i paid cash for a blood test and testosterone check and it was like $40 USD to see the doc. if i get a broken bone i'll just pay cash i suppose.
Futuro has it; i've done the expensive brothel thing in Europe, rented expensive hotel rooms in Dubai, bought new cars and gadgets, chased the new current thing, and my most memorable experiences have been those that didn't cost much, but were transformative and with great people. less is more for me, but i don't mind if people want to spend $100 USD for one dinner in Palermo...i prefer being 'retired' and not having to answer to anyone other than my own morality. my goal in 2025 is to get you guys a true cost-of-living summary of Mendoza, to see just how affordable i can make it
goodbye communist 😉 every time i click "view Muted posts" i remember how dumb you are. if you have a real question, go ahead and ask...happy to help anyone other than a peronist douchebag alamist who didn't say anything while the K Mafia was fleecing the country for years. Milei-Derangement-Syndrome is real ahahhahahaha. and like someone else said, when you take away the noquis' free stuff and people cry about it, those were the people who are the parasites
ah yes, the usual commie returns. same as above for you: GFY, commie! no one wants you hear or cares about your MILEI IS HITLER nonsense. Afuera, go brigade another forum...this one is for Expats, buddy. also, i'd love to see where i said "there is no price increases over the past 14 months in Argentina" - lol, i write essays here, with tons of data and observations and links, and this is what you took away? commies really are retarded
you answered your own question, there 😛 ever watch CNN and then go outside in the USA and realize none of it is happening? commies make fake news all around the world 🙂
sure, i ordered a pepperoni pizza last night from Almacen De Pizzas. just like in the USA, i don't go to the closest steakhouse at 6pm and pay high prices, or drink expensive beers, because a couple minutes away you can find nice restaurants and breweries with half-priced goods. it's just a simple desire to be frugal; no need to impress anyone. i saw this in the Midwest, where people would fill-up gas at the closest station, then complain about the price of gas....bro! you can drive 3 minutes and pay 20 cents per gallon less for your 25-gallon tank, and use rewards points to save a ton! it's not hard if you spend a little time
i noticed that most of them aren't in Argentina most of the year. also, it's high season/summer. and more people are coming to CABA, like i was. and if people are paying that much, the restaurants will charge that much. i choose to 'vote with my Dollar' on these things. i just bought liters of milk for 80 cents USD each, beef for 6000 Pesos/kg, super-cheap veggies and fruit, and all you have to do is shop on a certain day (if you have a DNI like all these crybaby liar Peronistas do) to get discounts. for instance, this weekend at many stores there is a BNA+ MODO 40% discount on tons of stuff, "reintegro" right back to your bank account. having a DNI number is a game-changer, which the commies don't mention.
3,300 Pesos per kilogram of pork here at Coto: https://www.cotodigital.com.ar/siti...aleta-de-cerdo-x-kg/_/R-00017700-00017700-200
so $2.87 USD/kg, or $1.31 USD per pound, something like that. peronists are allergic to facts, and they'll lie to your face to get you to believe their political zealotry. i just bought a kilo of black beans at Carrefour for 829 Pesos. what's the math on that? now i can cook beans and pork for dirt-cheap meals. the monk life isn't for everyone, but also the spend-a-shitload-of-Dollars-at-fancy-restaurants-that-overcharge isn't fulfilling to me
i watch people buy small cans of Heineken from the closest Yes! kiosk for $3 USD alllllll the time. yet i walk to the other block and get Budweiser liters for 1,885 Pesos, and get a 15-25% discount depending on the MODO day. people LOVE spending money on stupid sh*t in Argentina, and then complaining about expenses 😛
like i said, i have paragraphs galore on this forum with links and prices....not sure what else you want me to do. you can google things and look-up prices yourself, as well. Coto, Libertad, ChangoMas, Carrefour, Cencosud, DIA...
i'm glad we're back to the topic of crypto now on this thread. for anyone new here, Larry is a peronist moron who spams MILEI EVIL and your life will be better when you click Mute on him. you're welcome!
now do previous years:
anyone not denouncing the government spending before 2024 is a shill and should be shamed continually until they go away from this Expat forum
you been watching the peronist news again? that's not good for your IQ
they have a shitload of Dollars from the past decades and lay low because flaunting means trouble. watch how much the peronists spend and go on vacation and you will see they are liars, 24/7
@BuySellBA can summarize, but basically the apparent contradiction exists because the premise is wrong. Argentines think they are "poor" like the person in the USA who steals food stamps, gets unemployment and disability, has a free phone and tons of other entitlements, says they are poor...yet they have a Netflix and Paramount+ and Disney+ subscription, don't work much, eat fast food all the time, and always are just laying around. poverty used to mean Subsistence Agriculture, before the commies stole the word to mean they need more money for free, at your tax dollars' expense.
right, but you're quoting a peronist who made-up what i didn't say, so we can just ignore them. of course prices have gone up in Pesos in the busy season. i bought milk liters for 500 Pesos when i got to Argentina 18 months ago, and now they are 900-1200 Pesos per liter. BUT, they are overwhelmingly the same in Dollars, which is what i've been documenting as i've tracked the real-world MEP for over a year
not really, but this is a non-issue since i don't even know what Libra is and i've been in crypto longer than anyone here except maybe @Blockchain - no idea. people who buy memecoins for leveraged day-trading are overwhelmingly not Argentines. does anyone personally know someone who can prove they actually bought a memecoin and lost money because they bought high and sold low, because of a tweet? if so, that person is literally retarded and should be avoided at all costs
Milei was correct in this defense: "It’s false that 44,000 people were affected—at most, it’s 5,000. The chances of there being Argentinians involved are very slim. These are highly specialized individuals in this type of financial instrument. Those who got involved knew the risks very well—they are volatility traders. This is a private matter between individuals, and they participated voluntarily," - no lie, there. stupid is as stupid does. you bought a memecoin from a tweet, and it has no use case in real life, like 99.9% of coins? cry all you want, but you're a moron if you bought some in that short timeframe. i would bet that zero Argentines, especially "poor" Argentines, were affected. this is a non-issue. we have WAY more important things to worry about, but commies will always jump on something silly, yet they would sit silent while a Kirchner did the same thing.
much like Trump re-naming the Gulf of Mexico, it's just irrelevant when we need to be taking the Chainsaw to the US federal government. who cares about the Gulf? there's much more to be critical about. Why is Trump being such a communist about more tariffs? why is Milei's team unable to reform the Immigration system when they control the Executive branch which can make a million changes without the Legislative? 'bigger fish to fry' here. Milei needs to get his czars to work faster with more de-regulation, as much as possible. more power to the Provinces, and less to the national gov't.
no, the Peronists are just doing what they always do...lie. my post history is easy to read
Futuro with the genius as always:
then buy as much as you can. all crypto goes up and down as the US Dollar loses value. BTC is at 85,000 and BitcoinCash is at 340, so who knows? but one of those has been hijacked and doesn't work as p2p cash, and the other works fantastically
¿Por qué Bitcoin Cash? Únete a la revolución del dinero digital
Un sistema de dinero electrónico rápido, seguro y mundial entre pares con costes de procesamiento reducidos
whybitcoincash.com
memecoins? well, some people run AI Bots and make tons of money. but yes, most people who daytrade probably don't make money, and have no idea what they're buying. 99.9% of coins have no real-world use case.
then Short it? tons of money to be made if you're sure. no one knows, but with worldwide tyranny and currency controls and tariffs, having uncensorable money is really powerful. i would bet 1% of the people on this forum posting about Bitcoin have any clue what a blockchain is or how p2p cash can't be stopped. it's really as simple as fundamentals:
people always forget this. we humans tend to focus on the negative. i'm a regular dude, not a coder, and i only got into Bitcoin because of anti-war and anti-federal-government reasons, but i am also doing quite well. i haven't "worked" in almost 3 years
only if you bought at the top and sold at the bottom. Dollar-Cost-Averaging with a crypto that you actually understand is a totally different investment. it's trading fiat Dollars for finite and uncensorable cash.
i think buying stocks that have no intrinsic value, and holding pieces of paper under a mattress, and buying the newest BMW and iPhone are all nuts...just depends on your goals 🙂
Avocado
Well-known member
It does not surprise me you are a dirty drug user.
How will you feel if electricity rates triple from where they are now?
Does not surprise me one bit! Probably why you come to my country!
I told you many times I not communist.
Are you dumb? Read any expat message board. Read the newspaper. All are talking about how expensive things are. Coffee here in many places 5000 pesos.
You sure like beer!
Come on Avocado. Marijuana is legal in much of the world now. Smoking cigarettes are more dangerous than smoking pot. I guess I'm a "dirty drug user" too. 🤣🚬🚬
How much more will electricity rates go up? I understand that the rates were too low before but seems like making them 3x or 4x higher so quickly probably is not smart. It may not be much to Americans that have dollars but imagine paying that electricity bill if you are making pesos! That seems like a big electricity bill to me if you aren't making much.
Uncle Wong
Well-known member
It sounds like you haven't been to Buenos Aires in a while @StatusNomadicus. It isn't only people that are traveling here. I just did a paid consultation with BowTiedMara from X. He is an expat that is married to a local and lives here full time. He said the same thing that is on X and the media and blogs. He is widely trusted on all things Buenos Aires and he confirmed that cost of living has skyrocketed up for his family.
It sounds like you can live cheap in Argentina if you want to. You seem like you live a very cheap life and probably I would do a mix of normal and what you are doing. But if you aren't in Buenos Aires and haven't been for a while you are probably not a good judge of what is happening in BA. He told me that while some things are stable, other things keep going up. He noted restaurants, tuition for his kids school, maid, utility bills, healthcare (was actually paid by his wife's employer so not as much a factor). Car registration, car insurance, ABL bills, transportation, fuel. So it sounds like your experience of what you were doing when you were passing by in BA is much different than today.
Go online and you will see many tourists shocked by prices in BA.
Of course it is big electricity bill! $120 USD per month and trying to say electricity is cheap here! Imagine! That is 147k pesos which is good part of a local salary each month! That is the problem I have with this guy that knows nothing about Argentina. He grift and pass through and think he know Argentina. He admit he escape his country to cheat on taxes and not pay USA. He wants to get Argentina passport so he can illegally not pay taxes in Argentina either. I doubt he will pay his taxes in Argentina if he is not in his country. That is why he call me communist. He is the one wrong.
I came to Argentina legally and I pay my taxes in Argentina. I worked for many years in Argentina and paid taxes.
I have a problem with the foreigner people that come to Argentina with their dollars and try to judge and preach to everyone else when they don't know Argentina or what we are going through. I probably would think Argentina is ok too if I escaped my country and did not pay taxes and trying to do the same in Argentina! I admit I am struggling on fixed income. I stopped working and on pension now and it is difficult. I have enough problems than for someone here that don't know the struggles of Argentines coming and judging and preaching when they are illegal.
And of course he is one of the many Milei fan that excuse his terrible con with Libra. @StatusNomadicus probably try to do the same thing. I see before he keep posting on some crypto for people to buy. I see that go from 630 now to 330 so maybe he do the same thing to us. I don't know anything about crypto. Maybe I am wrong but I saw him promoting some other crypto not bitcoin.
Illegals like @StatusNomadicus are the problem both in his country and also Argentina. They do not want to pay their fair share and then complain about everyone else. Sure I guess my life would be ok if I illegally skip and don't pay taxes either! The nerve for him to call anyone a communist when he openly admits he a tax cheater not paying his fair share.
I do not care if he do drugs and drink all day and do nothing all day. He say he young and move to Argentina to do nothing. All he do is play with his dog all day in park. No work and living with his illegal dollars that he pay no tax on. Maybe I can play with a dog all day if I never paid taxes in my home country all my life.
StatusNomadicus
Well-known member
if i found out that these ~4 Peronist accounts are just AI-made, i wouldn't be surprised...but then again, brainwashing works. how the f*ck in 2025 can someone be such a moron that they think cultivating a few cannabis plants in their house is evil? what a psychopath
you're a Peronist, yeah? you think the national government should regulate everything and make sure there is equity? congrats, you're a totalitarian communist : )
"ideologies such as communism, Peronism, fascism, Nazism, and socialism, despite their apparent differences, share a common thread: they all elevate the state to a position of supreme authority, effectively turning it into an object of worship. [...] Peronism, the Argentine political movement under Juan Perón, is included as a hybrid case. Lindsay points to its roots in fascist-inspired nationalism and socialist-style economic control, where the state, under Perón’s charismatic leadership, became the focal point of identity and economic life. The cult of personality and state-directed policies [of Peronism] reflect a similar elevation of the state over individual agency." https://x.com/i/grok/share/aV0b4b14CtfjILAGw3xypcogg
i find argentine women mostly unattractive compared to brazilians, but again, why are commies so obsessed with personalities and other people's lives? you know the K family bangs hookers and does actual hard drugs all the time, right?
oh sh*t, a $4.17 USD coffee??? oh my god, Milei must be evil! /s
the problem with your stupidity is that you get your "news" from commie articles: https://english.elpais.com/economy-...-most-expensive-country-in-latin-america.html
mOsT eXpEnSiVe CoFfEe *peronist shrieking*********
that's the best you can do? here, 11,500 Pesos for a cappucino: https://alvear-roof-bar.mesa.express/menu/cafes-y-te/
and guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO 😉 just make coffee at home. go to a kiosk and get a cheap cortado. of course Havanna and all those luxury places will charge dummies US prices for a coffee. but think about it: earlyretirement needs to do a very important meeting and wants a nice-ass place, right? so he pays 5,000 Pesos or more per coffee, and has a great time, gets the deal done. why should you be so worried that a business is charging that much consensually? leave us alone. i don't get coffee in the USA because it's $5 USD...guess what else? i don't get coffee in touristy areas because it's $4 USD. get it? it's not that hard, just go somewhere else, or make it to-go in your mate thermos at home.
the problem with you commies is that you conflate a few restaurant high prices with the world-is-ending "look at this commie article that says Argentina has the most expensive coffee in _______" instead of just walking around and looking.
i walked 2 days ago and saw coffees for 1,100 Pesos at kiosks, 1,500 Pesos for coffee and tortita, etc. - so why are you so stupid? of course on the nearby touristy street i could pay $10 USD for a fancy coffee at a glamorous cafe. it's unrelated to the everyday experience of people. tourists in CABA paying $4.17 USD for a coffee are probably still very happy, considering Swiss and Norwegians and people from NYC or SanFran can pay $10-12 USD for some coffees.
no, i prefer to avoid brainwashing
no, not all, just the politically-motivated zealots. i'm here, talking about how Mendoza is super affordable, and when i was in CABA for months, i lived very very cheaply, just by spending a few minutes to research prices.
okay? i like a lot of things. see how you focus on personality traits and people, instead of ideas? it's a low-IQ tendency, and the core of communism. let's stick to the idea of crypto, prices, cost of living, etc. - i don't really care if you have an opinion on my beverage choices
cannabis would be a wonder drug if discovered today. unfortunately, unintelligent people got propagandized into repeating that it's the Devil's Lettuce :/
dunno, but my gas bill is still 50% subsidized for "cold area" - lol, the city of Mendoza is as cold as Phoenix AZ 😛
they were too low, and the result was Argentina has been a shithole economy for decades. i don't think anyone "made them" 3-4x; they just removed some/all subsidies. there is no good time to cut spending, just like there's no "good" time to end a war, but it's necessary. the federal government should have never been subsidizing all these special projects, and we wouldn't be in this situation to start with. and regarding 'poor Argentines' see my other posts - there are millions of Argies with hundreds of thousands of Dollars in assets and cash within their family. of course there are poor everywhere; luckily they have a chance to work and gain wealth, but telling them they are permanent-peasants and victims won't help. many poor people in these situations make daily choices that keep them poor.
and my gf's electric bill in the Midwest is $220/month in the winter for heat, so $120 USD per month in a decent house with single-pane glass and poor sealing/insulation isn't bad. i will be more prepared next summer...but it was only 2-3 months of worry.
sure, and as i've argued with others here, half of his complaints are optional services. all i care about is the cost of living for necessities for the average person; roof, food, transport, etc. - these are all still super cheap in dollars. of course i could pay hundreds for home insurance, medical plans, HBO/Disney+, maid service, HOA fees, drinking water delivery, etc.
but those are choices 95% of the time. the dude uses BTC Lightning and refuses to read Hijacking Bitcoin after all this time, so always remember that he's not perfect and his own biases/problems. he lives in Mar Del Plata last i checked...think that's typical? 😉 i'm certain if i were in charge of his budget i could reduce it by 50% overnight, given his luxury lifestyle and all that (not that i want him to change anything, just an example).
with Dollars, yes. and that's literally the only thing i've tried to emphasize against the 4 peronists here that spout propaganda. everything else isn't relevant.
can't argue this because i can't clone myself, but the commies said all these same things when i was there ~Feb 2024. check the posts if you want.
private school = optional
maid = very optional and i have never paid a maid in my life and don't plan to
utilities = less subsidies but now Argies will learn to use caulking and be more aware of their open windows and doors...welcome to the real world
healthcare = i've beaten this dead horse, but most people are tricked into needed thousands of dollars in medical insurance when you can just keep a small savings account. what exactly are these people going to the doctor so much for?
video: those Pringles have always been expensive. Argies still buy them. big-ass jugs of water are optional (i've drank the tap water for over a year in 3 different provinces - boom, savings). those videos never show buying beans and meat and eggs and tallow and noodles and veggies and fruit, which are a fraction of the price of the USA. just remember who is filming/writing, and why they might be showing certain things only.
want to do a real-time experiment, @Uncle Wong ? you and i buy some similar things and do the math of what mine cost relative in Dollars. let me know! i can message you my WhatsApp and we can post receipts here. might be interesting for those planning an Argentina trip : )
ñoqui spotted - get a job, freeloader! sucks to suck, welcome to real life. we're all sick of paying for you to sit on your ass and write propaganda on an Expat forum. bye!
everyone should always remember DeTocqueville and Sowell, warning us:
"The more people who are dependent on government handouts, the more votes the Left can depend on for an ever-expanding welfare state." (Thomas Sowell)
Alexis de Tocqueville said In Democracy in America that liberty could be eroded if people like Larry become overly reliant on government, because it leads to a "soft despotism" where they trade freedom for security, needing to live on gov't checks every month. refer to many Native Reservations in the USA and their overall squalor for the results of creating 'welfare slaves' - of which the non-working Peronists are a perfect example (protest with this union/political party, or lose your free stuff)
StatusNomadicus
Well-known member
was just listening to @BowTiedMara on a podcast/youtube and thought you guys might like this quote about how Argies are the kings and queens of the world when it comes to anti-government tax evasion 🙂
"everything has to go through a centralized kind of IRS system here, so it's it's a very controlled economy also, because [...] the taxation levels are pretty high, and that's also why almost half of the economy you know is in the shadows, so a lot of people are are not on the books as real employees (they get their money under the table Etc), that's very normal here, and that is something that took me a while to to understand. for my Dutch mind, it was kind of like, you know, "why don't you guys just do everything in white and as you're supposed to? because otherwise, nothing's going to work here" and then after a few years I completely understood. just like they were looking at me, every time I would send like an official invoice and they would be looking at me, it's like 'why are you doing this, this is like only a benefit to the state...you're not benefiting yourself here,and we don't even need your expense,' and only later I understood why they did that. because basically, if you would really pay all the the taxes and tariffs Etc, on top of, in certain industries, on top of your invoices you would almost come out negative. that's how many stacked and layered taxes there are here, uh so it's completely understandable that so many businesses, and you know, individuals try to circumvent that by other means."
(then the podcast host responded) "i don't remember the exact quote or where I had heard it, but it was something along the lines of "in a country like Argentina, whether it's a failed state or just a a country with layered bureaucracy or Banana Republic, or something analogous, life becomes in some sense an illegal act; that in order to live, you have to constantly break the rules. you have to constantly break the laws"
"everything has to go through a centralized kind of IRS system here, so it's it's a very controlled economy also, because [...] the taxation levels are pretty high, and that's also why almost half of the economy you know is in the shadows, so a lot of people are are not on the books as real employees (they get their money under the table Etc), that's very normal here, and that is something that took me a while to to understand. for my Dutch mind, it was kind of like, you know, "why don't you guys just do everything in white and as you're supposed to? because otherwise, nothing's going to work here" and then after a few years I completely understood. just like they were looking at me, every time I would send like an official invoice and they would be looking at me, it's like 'why are you doing this, this is like only a benefit to the state...you're not benefiting yourself here,and we don't even need your expense,' and only later I understood why they did that. because basically, if you would really pay all the the taxes and tariffs Etc, on top of, in certain industries, on top of your invoices you would almost come out negative. that's how many stacked and layered taxes there are here, uh so it's completely understandable that so many businesses, and you know, individuals try to circumvent that by other means."
(then the podcast host responded) "i don't remember the exact quote or where I had heard it, but it was something along the lines of "in a country like Argentina, whether it's a failed state or just a a country with layered bureaucracy or Banana Republic, or something analogous, life becomes in some sense an illegal act; that in order to live, you have to constantly break the rules. you have to constantly break the laws"
James Bond
Well-known member
Most foreigners who move to Argentina don't comprehend how corrupt and broken it is. I've only heard of a few foreigners that were successful in Argentina. I tried my hand at a business there and failed miserably. Had employees sue me and people asking for bribes. You MUST have a good accountant if you want to make it there. Needless to say mine wasn't good enough!
earlyretirement
Moderator
@BowTiedMara is a great guy. I am friends with him and meet up with him each time I'm in BA. Funny as I was just chatting with him today on the phone for about an hour. I'm always amazed that we always see eye to eye on everything and when I notice a trend he says the same thing. I was telling him today that amongst my friends that I see a shift away from people thinking there is light at the end of the tunnel. He is seeing the same thing. NONE of us want a return to Peronism. He is one of the smartest guys in Argentina and has a good pulse on things on the ground.
Very true. I've been doing business in Argentina since 2002. I've set up many corporations and I've seen a lot of foreigners come and only one other American I saw have an exit and he was a friend of mine. But he admits it wasn't much of an exit. I took a good year setting up a business plan and studying the local system. Your best friend in Argentina is a good accountant. To give you perspective, when I had my company, I had 5 accountants working for me including 3 in house full time. Argentina is a very complex place.
You have to understand and structure things very very very carefully in Argentina. It's true that for most companies with all the taxes you would come out negative. But we surprised several audits from AFIP. I am writing a book and part of the story is all of the experiences. One of the most hilarious was one AFIP tax inspector that was doing an audit. Many try to get some kick back or get you to pay a bribe but we would never pay it and had everything structured good.
Blockchain
Well-known member
Love his content on X. I listened to a few podcasts with him and he comes across as knowing Argentina well.
What I can't figure out is why would anyone start a business there! Cepo and capital controls, getting money trapped there with dividends, cash, high taxes, pain with labor laws. Seems like a good place to go and retire and not to own a business.
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