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Javier Milei Launches Bitcoin Revolution in Argentina
fetch rover
Well-known member
No one is happy paying taxes. However, not too much you can do other than what you are doing leaving the USA, evading taxes and getting a second passport. Now I understand why you want an Argentine passport. Most Americans don't have the courage or will to do something like this.
fetch rover
Well-known member
Is this chart accurate? So if you bought this crypto in April (just 6 months ago) it is worth less than half it's value???Bitcoin Cash is the whitepaper version of Bitcoin, and BTC is broken/hijacked. check out www.x.com/HijackingBTC for the book that covers it all
i don't use crappy technology; BitcoinCash is early, just like coming to Argentina. i can wait; i have plenty of Dollars. i just would like to see more Crypto adoption here, rather than Tether centralized shitcoins. and if places can accept BTC, they can accept BCH; the trend i'm reporting is one where the financial folks want USDT and TRX-20, which are laughable and no different than just wiring USD.
Vero
Well-known member
This is why I do not understand why any Argentine would want to accept payment for a property in a crypto payment? It can immediately go down the same day that the apartment is paid for. I see this is down 8% in one DAY. Cash is better.
They wouldn't. This is why all sellers want only USD cash. Imagine how fast bitcoin and all the shitcoins will fall once escalation gets worse in Israel. If the United States got involved into a further escalation my guess is all of these cryptos will sink like a rock.
Blockchain
Well-known member
Many of these cryptos are extremely volatile. All of these ETF's probably add more volatility into the mix. Let's see what happens if the USA gets pulled into a war. Crypto hasn't gone through a scenario like that so no telling what could happen.
StatusNomadicus
Well-known member
hopefully in a few years we have zero national income/other taxes, since there is no evidence that taxes do anything worthwhile for the people
in a free society, 90% of people aren't having to hide things and become 7-felony-a-day criminals because there are too many laws to know about.this is what i'm hedging against, yes. i don't like tyranny, and i don't plan to pay anything unless they point a gun at me. and yes, i likely will renounce when it's convenient. did you know there's a renunciation exit-tax on us? the USA is such a despotic empire, cosplaying as a free country
billions for Ukraine, trillions for the elites in other countries as "aid" - yet NC and TN can't get help because FEMA is out of money:
i want to avoid a paper trail for me that the next commie government could prosecute me later for
i wonder what the hold-up is for allowing Dollars and whatever else into the country? i keep reading about less restrictions for declaring/blanqueando whatever the term is:Crypto will be more ubiquitous, sure, but for right now it's not that complicated to use a third-party financier to take Bitcoin and give Dollars...the same thing happens when you send a Wire or get a bunch of $100 bills, right? you need to pay a company/cueva, they give the other party Dollars in cash or transfer, and everyone is happy. my transaction would just be a Bitcoin Wallet QR code transfer instead of a Wire Transfer; it would look 99% the same
these need to be Afuera'd ASAP so people can work without having to do blackmarket labor, just like with prostitution, if you make a black market, the ones lowest on the societal pole will be the most-hurt since they can't go to the police or have civil rights. let people work without Daddy Government watching! it happens 80% of the time, anyway.
i don't intend to be on their radar - luckily with crypto you can lay low and keep money out of the US system. privacym though, is still a big problem for Blockchain (it wasn't mean for criminals, as much as the Fake News says it is - you can track everything on a public ledger)
i'm hoping these will be deleted like everything else. Milei knows that taxation is theft, and the State provides no worthwhile services that private companies can't do better. capital gains are the most idiotic tax after a "Wealth Tax" - pointless theft of the people who are producing goods/services. if they aren't deleted, i'll disobey the unjust laws as best as any Argie couldin Argentina I read that the tax rates are very high in Argentina too. And Argentina seems like with all the corruption they blow through a lot of questionable causes too. I doubt they will have 0% capital gains on crypto but from speaking to friends, everything is under the table anyway. Something tells me you won't want to pay capital gains in Argentina either.
the US government is good at destroying the lives of people who resist the Empire, unfortunately.
sure, if you bought Bitcoin at a high and did nothing, then sold at the low, you would lose Dollars in that case. but who would do that?? when prices drop, and you believe in a stock/crypto/good for its fundamentals, you keep dollar-cost-averaging and acquire more at a lower price (if it was a good deal at $672 USD then it's a sweet deal at $328 USD, yeah?) - these arguments are always strange to me. i've held Bitcoin BTC and BCH both since around 2016 when i started learning about how the Federal Reserve is the source of all US war and debt...i've seen highs and lows. i'm not interested that much in getting more Dollars; i'm interested in rejecting the Dollar and using a decentralized peer-to-peer currency that liberates the world from oppression
India banned large cash bills. EU is trying to ban cash. Argentina tried to block Dollars. Cyprus stole cash from its citizens and wouldn't let them withdraw from the ATMs. these are all problems that led to the 2008 creation of Blockchain tech via Bitcoin. highly recommend you follow Roger Ver and Kim Dotcom if you want to see how Bitcoin/BCH was created and can't be controlled by any government
@fetch rover if you bought Silver at $44/oz and then sold it at $15/oz, you would also lose a lot of Dollars: https://www.apmex.com/silver-price
(attached screenshot)
likewise, if you bought a stock at all-time-high in 2007 and then sold after the 2008 crash, or during the COVID crash, or during our current recession, or bought real estate at a high and sold after a housing correction, you'd lose-out in Dollars, sure: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-25-worst-stocks-by-shareholder-wealth-losses-1926-2022/
Crypto is so EARLY still, that huge gains and losses can occur for those who gamble their money. the old Bitcoiners like me never intended to get rich; we wanted to have an uncensorable currency that fights government oppression. but yes, you can lose a lot of Dollars. the best thing you could do with Bitcoin since 2008 is to buy $5 a month and never look at it or touch it
for me, though, i follow the "Spend & Replace" theory, and i try to onboard people and get them started. i've long since made my money back, so it's a philosophical and political pursuit. i have enough money that i could live in Argentina for 70 years without working...money isn't important, but liberating Argentines from the clutches of a Central Bank is very important. this is why Milei should NOT regulate crypto whatsoever.Pesos go down a ton, too. yet people use Pesos. USD cash loses to inflation every year (5%? more? no one knows, but it's horrible inflation regardless of the specific number). there are stablecoins for Crypto to peg to the Dollar. there are plenty of things available, but yes most Crypto is too volatile to be putting 100% of one's wealth into and expecting all the perks of the Dollar with none of the downsides of anything.
eh, shitcoins is a fairly useless term. the US Dollar is the biggest shitcoin, and BTC has $1 USD fees right now so 80% of the world can't use it for normal transactions/purchases. no one knows how crypto will react to regional war and housing/stock collapses. the US Dollar one day will not reign supreme, so having a diversified portfolio is the best!
and sadly, soon some Americans will find their IRA/Roth/accounts/etc. seized in some way. whether it's reducing social security or medicare or devaluing retirements and investments, many people who thought they were "good" financially will have to accept that putting all their "eggs in one basket" (the basket being in control of the US Government and IRS) was not the best idea.
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2. "People can and should do everything they can to pay as little in taxes as possible. This is an ethical imperative; we must starve the beast. It could even be seen as a patriotic duty — if one believes in such things — to deny revenue to the state any way possible, short of endangering yourself. Starving the beast may be the only way to force it back into its cage — we certainly can’t count on politicians to make the right choices — they’re minions of the state. They inevitably act to make it bigger and more powerful… The state, the media, teachers, pundits, corporations — the entire establishment, really — all emphasize the moral correctness of paying taxes. They call someone who doesn’t do so a 'tax cheat.' As usual, they have things upside down. Let’s start with a definition of 'theft,' something I hold as immoral and destructive. Theft is to take someone’s property against his will, i.e., by force or fraud. There isn’t a clause in the definition that says, 'unless the king or the state takes the property; then it’s no longer theft.' You have a right to defend yourself from theft, regardless of who the thief is or why he is stealing. It’s much as if a mugger grabs you on the street. You have no moral obligation to give him your money. On the contrary, you have a moral obligation to deny him that money. Does it matter if the thief says he’s going to use it to feed himself? No. Does it matter if he says he’s going to feed a starving person he knows? No. Does it matter if he’s talked to other people in the neighborhood, and 51% of them think he should rob you to feed the starving guy? No. Does it matter if the thief sets himself up as the government? No. Now of course, this gets us into a discussion of the nature of government as an institution, which we’ve talked about before. But my point here is that you can’t give the tax authorities the moral high ground. That’s important because decent people want to do the morally right thing. This is why sociopaths try to convince people that the wrong thing is the right thing. If an armed mugger or a gang of muggers wanted my wallet on the street, would I give it to them? Yes, most likely, because I can’t stop them from taking it, and I don’t want them to kill me. But do they have a right to it? No. And every taxpayer should keep that analogy at the top of his mind." https://www.businessinsider.com/doug-casey-on-taxes-and-freedom-2012-5
3. https://internationalman.com/articles/get-ready-for-confiscation/
4. https://www.schiffsovereign.com/tax/surreal-irs-apologizes-for-seizing-bank-accounts-16123/
5. https://www.schiffsovereign.com/trends/the-case-for-real-assets-keeps-getting-stronger-151063/
true, we have no idea anything right now. WW3? US Civil War? another Plandemic to control us and impose Global IDs and CBDCs? who will win the US election? how will they expand wars/welfare/debt? how soon will the US Empire decline like the British Empire has disappeared and now have Islamists controlling neighborhoods in London? how will a true emergency affect the unprepared USA, if a Flu like COVID lockdowns caused shortages and panic? this is why having more than just fake Dollars in electronic accounts is a good idea. and food storage and ammunition and real assets instead of just the US Trash Token (as @BowTiedMara says) printed on pieces of paper that can be stolen or burned.
Attachments
Digital Nomad
Well-known member
Very few here pay the IVA tax if they have a choice. That is why you also see a lot of restaurants that offer 15% discount if you pay cash. They don't have to declare their income tax. Argentina is a very high tax society. Even more than the USA so I have heard. My novia's dad runs a company here and he said the taxes here are insane.
I doubt Argentina can cut too many taxes but that would be nice.
I doubt Argentina can cut too many taxes but that would be nice.
LongIslander
Well-known member
Are you saying $2000 was expensive or cheap? That seems really cheap to me. Some new construction is at $4000 per sq. meter now. I think the average price m2 is about $3200 USD per m2 now in Palermo.Bitcoin Cash is the whitepaper version of Bitcoin, and BTC is broken/hijacked. check out www.x.com/HijackingBTC for the book that covers it all
i don't use crappy technology; BitcoinCash is early, just like coming to Argentina. i can wait; i have plenty of Dollars. i just would like to see more Crypto adoption here, rather than Tether centralized shitcoins. and if places can accept BTC, they can accept BCH; the trend i'm reporting is one where the financial folks want USDT and TRX-20, which are laughable and no different than just wiring USD.
i almost did it, but ended up not liking the New-York-City style of CABA much, so i wanted to see other provinces before committing to a 115k USD apartment (prices/m2 were crazy in BsAs, like $2000+/m2)
I am curious why you are so gung ho on BCH @StatusNomadicus? I am not trying to trash it but I have talked to people that I know that are big into crypto and they just laugh at me when I mention it. They just told me to avoid it. The friend that sent me that YT I posted said hat people that bought that when it started will never see prices go back to that level. Even people that bought it 6 months ago are down 53%.
All the cuevas in BA mainly want to deal with USDT which is just like wiring cash like you mentioned. Doesn't that just show you that what people are telling you that cash is still king here is true?
At least bitcoin's price over the history of it has performed extremely well and it seems like that is what the world is going into. Do you not worry about BCH crashing and burning? So many different types have completely cratered. I guess there is a reason or another you like it so much. I hope it skyrockets. I read that whitepaper you posted and it is interesting but if there is no adoption does it really matter?
Vince
Well-known member
Hey @StatusNomadicus I just happened to see BCH today. Wow explosive day. What caused it to go up so much today? Wild seeing this kind of volatility. I added it to my ticker and saw it go up today and was happy for you.
Blockchain
Well-known member
All the cryptos had a great day yesterday.
StatusNomadicus
Well-known member
why? the Milei team has already removed so much from Jan-Oct2024. why limit your imagination to all of that, and not national taxes?
all they have to do is keep deleting laws and removing regulations - the free market will make this country prosper:
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6. https://x.com/feeonline/status/1824835886208430470
7. https://x.com/sfliberty/status/1811134649755730215
8. https://x.com/BowTiedMara/status/1829503630162215421
9. https://x.com/Milei_Explains/status/1784796891651121152
i just don't see how you can think, in Oct2024, that cutting taxes isn't likely
from my perspective, this is how i see it:
House: i'm about to close on a Boleto for my first real estate in Argentina, and instead of 2 taxes i am only paying 1, since the ITI has been removed (confirmed by my Escribania). this 1.5% means you will save 500-2500 USD on each purchase, depending on the price and how much you're declaring (since so many people only declare 40% on the Escritura).
Car: as i'm starting to search for my first car in Argentina, but am going slow because i would prefer to pay with Crypto, i learned from @BowTiedMara that now i'll pay the same amount of registration/title fee whether it's made in Argentina or imported/foreign. and now it seems we will all be saving hundreds of dollars over time because we won't need to pay-into the monopoly scam of the national auto registry. i don't have numbers for this like i do on the real-estate stuff, but it's a win.
i imagine more and more categories will be added. Commies/peronists printed money and made fake Ñoqui jobs for decades, and in only 9 months Milei's team has been able to do all of these AFUERA power-moves, and this is with political opposition from almost all sides.
it's just not a good deal for me...expensive. anything close to USA/EU prices is unattractive to me. i'm about to pay just under $800 USD/m2 for a nice renovated house in the Fifth Section of Mendoza city. why would i want to pay 3200-400 USD/m2 for an apartment, even if it is luxury and super downtown? it's just not my style
sure, i have plenty of resources about the Blockchain Wars, the hard-fork, the huge fees on broken-BTC...but overall it's simple: i've used Bitcoin as currency for 8 or so years now, and BTC sucks and was hijacked by people paid by the big banks. because Crypto is a threat to the fiat scam. an easy link to read, since your friends are all Maxi HODL Lambo goons, is:
Why Bitcoin Cash? Join the digital money revolution
A fast, secure, worldwide peer to peer electronic cash system with low processing fees
whybitcoincash.com
let me know what you think! and the whitepaper is at www.Bitcoin.com/Bitcoin.pdf - let me know where it says that BTC should be a store of value with high fees
no, because i'm buying a house w/ BCH
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Jeb Spencer
Well-known member
I hope they can keep removing taxes. The taxes are killing people. Almost everything has a 21% IVA tax that kills lower class people that are paying that on everything. They did remove that transfer tax. I had to pay that back when I sold my last property. I also had to pay an accountant to get a special permit to sell as a foreigner. That is also removed by Milei.
The removal of the auto registry and taxes is a great win. The other side will push but hopefully they can keep going with these changes.
earlyretirement
Moderator
Congrats! Glad you found a house you like. Yes, they got rid of the ITI (Transfer tax) in July. You don't have transfer tax on the purchase @StatusNomadicus. You pay ITI when you SELL a property so the seller of your property is saving that. But you will when you sell IF the laws aren't changed again. Here in Argentina things can always change. Just because one administration is in power doesn't mean that things can't be changed again. But less taxes is definitely better. It's not common to declare only 40%. Most people want to declare lower but most intelligent Escribanos won't agree to list that low. It is very foolish to go that low and an invitation for potential problems in the future.
AFIP has always monitored listing prices vs. closing prices and I have heard of some people that got audited. I'm not sure how things are in Mendoza and maybe it's more lax there. But here in CABA, AFIP has always monitored listing prices vs. prices declared on the title deed. Many locals might not care and still risk it but it's a good idea to just proceed knowing that things will eventually get streamlined.
Betsy Ross
Well-known member
Different strokes for different folks. Comparing upscale neighborhoods of BA to other areas outside in other cities is night and day. Same thing happens in the USA. Property prices are all over the place based on location. Like buying real estate in Manhattan vs. smaller areas. People that love BA hate Mendoza and vice versa. Great that people like different areas.it's just not a good deal for me...expensive. anything close to USA/EU prices is unattractive to me. i'm about to pay just under $800 USD/m2 for a nice renovated house in the Fifth Section of Mendoza city. why would i want to pay 3200-400 USD/m2 for an apartment, even if it is luxury and super downtown? it's just not my style
Happy you found a home you like @StatusNomadicus. I just saw on X another American that is in Mendoza. That seems like a good option for people that don't like big metropolitan areas like BA. I never hear about too many expats there. Hopefully that changes.
StatusNomadicus
Well-known member
how apropos that just yesterday we were talking about the likelihood of cutting taxes, and literally today Milei's team is dissolving AFIP can't wait to see how the commie peronist tears flow about this one
can't wait to see how the commie peronist tears flow about this oneHe isn't getting rid of it. Just changing the name. I agree that they have too many corrupt AFIP officers that made money doing nothing. This we all agree on. I don't know anyone that likes AFIP but if you think they are getting rid of it I have a bridge to sell you. They just changed the name.how apropos that just yesterday we were talking about the likelihood of cutting taxes, and literally today Milei's team is dissolving AFIP
True. There will still be the tax authority.Getting rid of all these corrupt and worthless employees there is a good step in the right direction. And changing the name is good marketing and PR.
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