Argentina Rentista Visa for 2024? What is the minimum income now for retirement visa for Argentina?

[StatusNomadicus]

having connections to either expedite or be more lenient on your case. Not saying that's right or wrong, but in any field having connections lends to being viewed more favorably.

sure, Robert Kiyosaki talked about this on the PBD Podcast:

he has politicians 'on his team' and he's "friends" with local elected officials...gotta "play the game" even if i was raised to believe that corruption didn't happen in the USA. in Brazil they say they're just more honest about the corruption in the open, whereas the USA etc. tries to pretend like lobbying and buying golf vacations for Senators aren't just legal bribes.

Pfizer has been the master of this for many years:

Pfizer pays US$60M to settle allegations of bribing doctors

Pfizer has agreed to pay the U.S. government US$60 million to settle allegations that its employees bribed doctors and other foreign officials in Europe and Asia to win business and boost sales.

www.ctvnews.ca

i plan to document all of this in a more 'Barney-style' ABC-123 guide, but i have some roadtrips/stuff to plan now that i'm not stuck close to Migraciones. for now, i won't be actively looking at this forum other than the MEP repository thread, but if anyone sees someone needing help, please post this thread if they didn't find it when searching. and happy to answer questions about the Cordoba process if you guys have any friends/family doing it this year. this is the way! thanks to earlyretirement and the Mods not locking threads and censoring like the old forum

if anyone has any famiy/friends renting small houses or apartments with some grass for my dog in Mendoza, Salta, etc. - please message me!

and other than MEP uses, WesternUnion rates, and the Crypto/Blue Dollar rates on the www.x.com/ArgentinaMEP page, any other requests for what you guys want tracked?

 

[Spend Thrift]

great link, love it when people journal things like that! props, @Camel

note that there are some serious issues with how Rubilar was reported to perform (versus his very bold claims in the old forum for years). the client asked if a quick USA trip would interrupt the 2 years of continuous residence, and Rubilar assured them no (he most recently ha assured 7 months in Argentina per calendar year is sufficient), yet that did not end up being the case for the judge.

i know everyone wants to believe most lawyers are professional and all of that, but i still believe the $6,500 USD contains money to bribe certain judges. i have no proof other than commonsense and the way the world works; the same thing happens with physicians prescribing certain brands of medications, medical folks referring certain 'associates', etc. (or lobbying from various entities/SuperPACs). it's not evil, it's just how most high positions get paid more. this makes sense why some lawyers keep changing judges until they get certain ones the report from @camel shows how he wasn't informed about 1: the parent-name-delay of 4 years, 2: the rejection from leaving Argentina for a short time in the USA that Rubilar approved, 3: the weird process of demanding to be arrested by the USA Embassy, and 4: Rubilar's continual Nazi-name-calling strategies (and i imagine some 'Roman serf slave feudal law' comments as well) that may have put @camel's case in jeopardy to set a precedent for other Rubilar cases.

also, on the old censored forums, @bwyonsea/@Bajo_cero2 never responds to criticisms; if i was running a business and offering advice online, i would absolutely never sit quietly if people were questioning my integrity. i would immediately offer evidence for why i'm following the ethical and legal way (not only to get more clients, but to show i'm acting in good faith). but one of hundreds of criticisms like "key to the resolution of that case turned out to be the exact thing [Rubilar] claims is never needed - residency. (That he repeats this claim in this very thread, knowing full well the circumstances of the case, is every bit the chutzpah I’ve come to expect from the learned gentleman.)"

...goes unanswered like almost all questions/criticisms. this is why i never hired Rubilar, and why i wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless there was literally no other choice (there probably is). too many unanswered questions, too many criticisms that he ignores (but spends time on the forum answering other questions and posting about Roman slavery racism laws), and too high of a price with zero guarantee (and the mothafucka wants 6k USD cash; bro, it's Argentina, that would be over eight thousand 1,000-Peso notes, or carrying around thousands of USD (which are almost impossible to get unless you bring them on the flight)...just accept electronic payment like everyone else! we all know you upper-class folks have several USD offshore accounts; everyone does.


i read it the same as well. but once the Residency lawyer got residency, it seemed to unlock the Citizenship case Rubilar had already started. who knows!


yeah, i agree as a last resort, but probably just spending some money to get legit Residency would be quicker and cheaper for 95% of people. no idea!

--------------------------

continuing on with the process in Cordoba Province, my status on Migraciones' site

https://www.migraciones.gov.ar/accesible/consultaTramitePrecaria/ConsultaUnificada.php (which you do NOT receive an email about, so i've been checking it every morning with coffee)

finally changed from "Supervision" to "DISPOSICIÓN DE RESIDENCIA PROTOCOLIZADA" - which shows as the last step...yet i still have a button to Attach a PDF. website poor design/glitch, or am i suddenly going to need to show deposited Peso money in my Argentine bank account at the last minute of my 90-day Precaria? lots of unknowns still, but overall my lady and i have been quite successful at doing everything without hiring a translator/expediter/lawyer (i did pay for 3 short consultations when i was first in BsAs to see if they had any sort of common theme - they did not).

the last i was told by the Cordoba Migraciones is that 5x-salary needs to be transferred every month i want residency. they told my girlfriend a few weeks later that she just needed to deposit a 5x-salary once into her Banco Nacion account. this is a huge difference; transferring would be at official rate, probably taxed, and certainly incurring fees 12 times a year...yet she might be able to take out Pesos with WesternUnion and deposit cash at the Blue rate only once to get her DNI. what the hell! will update more later. as of May2024 the salary is:

234,315 Pesos

x5 is 1,171,575 Pesos/month
which at 1298 ARS/USD on WU site right now without fees, would be $903 USD one time for her, supposedly to get a DNI and a year's worth of Residencia Rentista. that would be amazing! and the debit MasterCard that comes with the BNA/BancoNacion account has some offers to use for local spends on groceries and services, though i haven't tried any yet: https://bna.com.ar/personas/descuentosypromociones

**note that her Precaria was granted the day she had her appointment (in the office at 10:45, didn't get seen until 13:30, wasn't done until 14:00) but she has an "Intimacion" to complete - she was told within 30 days to show a stamped piece of paper that the million-ish Pesos are in her BNA savings account (the paper actually says she has 90 days). she was able to use an electronic Precaria (i've been calling it a pre-Precaria, the one that was in-between her Tourist Visa for 9 days until her initial appointment at Migraciones) to open a "cuenta de ahorros" at BNA - the staff didn't seem to notice a difference between a 9-day Precaria and a 90-day "real" Precaria...i played dumb translating for her, and it worked! they asked her for her Social Security Number (could be related to USA and Argentina eventually sharing tax stuff?) but i didn't have to do that, so i told the bank employee that she didn't feel comfortable since so many scams "estafas" in the USA involve the SSN. she was a bit confused, but i explained that a DNI number is thrown-around in Argentina, but a SSN is neverrrrrr just mentioned at the grocery store; it's basically just for direct government interactions. my girlfriend was able to get her "Constancia" proof of Argentine bank account by using her passport number only (and maybe her parcel number/parcel County tax ID in the USA, not sure).

so, the next step is seeing if a Western Union cash deposit will work for proof, and how to get a stamped paper that the deposit was done. and if i can do the same, avoiding doing it 12 times per year. maybe i'll master this stuff and charge a small price to be a Migraciones/RadEx guide in the future, if i learn enough

now, to travel a bit in Argentina during the 90-day period! no car, but renting a car for 2 days to move my pup has been somewhat doable. i'll update more when i learn if in 2024 you can renew Precarias online within 5 or 10 days (i was told both), and how the process is actually done (end of July i'll post here). if anyone has a reliable cheap vehicle they want to lease to me or sell to me, i'm starting to research if it is worth it (but has prices are so high at 1050 Pesos/liter...maybe the global oil price drop will help, or the Milei cabinet will delete some gas tax laws). i found @BowTiedMara's substack post about it here:

Buying a car in Argentina

The road to bureaucracy hell is paved with forms and declarations

www.bowtiedmara.io

Great write up kid. Enjoy reading your stuff.

 

[Uncle Wong]

sure, Robert Kiyosaki talked about this on the PBD Podcast:

he has politicians 'on his team' and he's "friends" with local elected officials...gotta "play the game" even if i was raised to believe that corruption didn't happen in the USA. in Brazil they say they're just more honest about the corruption in the open, whereas the USA etc. tries to pretend like lobbying and buying golf vacations for Senators aren't just legal bribes.

Pfizer has been the master of this for many years:

Pfizer pays US$60M to settle allegations of bribing doctors

Pfizer has agreed to pay the U.S. government US$60 million to settle allegations that its employees bribed doctors and other foreign officials in Europe and Asia to win business and boost sales.

www.ctvnews.ca

i plan to document all of this in a more 'Barney-style' ABC-123 guide, but i have some roadtrips/stuff to plan now that i'm not stuck close to Migraciones. for now, i won't be actively looking at this forum other than the MEP repository thread, but if anyone sees someone needing help, please post this thread if they didn't find it when searching. and happy to answer questions about the Cordoba process if you guys have any friends/family doing it this year. this is the way! thanks to earlyretirement and the Mods not locking threads and censoring like the old forum

if anyone has any famiy/friends renting small houses or apartments with some grass for my dog in Mendoza, Salta, etc. - please message me!

and other than MEP uses, WesternUnion rates, and the Crypto/Blue Dollar rates on the www.x.com/ArgentinaMEP page, any other requests for what you guys want tracked?

Looking forward to reading more of your posts documenting this. At some point in the future I would like to get some sort of residency there. There is more interest from many people now to get 2nd or 3rd passports and also permanent residency in other countries.

Downside to Argentina is I see so many posts all with different information. And it seems like hiring a lawyer is a very expensive process with no guarantee of success. It will be nice to read someone outlining the process in detail. Thanks for all your posts @StatusNomadicus!

 

[Digital Nomad]

I saw this immigration attorney mentioned online. Has anyone used them that can post an experience?

Immigrar

IMMIGRAR - Estudio jurídico especializado en Derecho Migratorio

IMMIGRAR es un estudio jurídico especializado en derecho migratorio que brinda servicios jurídicos a empresas y particulares en Argentina.

www.immigrar.com

 

[StatusNomadicus]

Immigrar.com

the name listed on the site is Ceciia Pernigotti, which does have a listing in the BsAs lawyers search:

Colegio Público de Abogados de Capital Federal

w3.cpacf.org.ar

i always email these people and ask basic questions, so try it out! it tells us not only that they actually respond and speak English as claimed, but then you can get them to commit to prices, timelines, and book a free or cheap consultation for your specific case (and get actual legal advice). i found the lawyers in CABA were all completely different in their prices, approaches, and paperwork requirements. for instance, the often-referred Lorena from ARCA will not do citizenship after you get residency: https://argentinaresidency.com/

and she also swears that the timeline is 5 years for citizenship, not 2-3 years as other attorneys have claimed. these are pretty big differences. also, she's one of a couple lawyers that got butt-hurt when i asked questions and was researching the actual texts of the laws. you can do your own messaging, but when i ask a professional for the actual law, or their reasoning based on the Migraciones text, and they respond with something like 'oh well you just need to trust us!' - i immediately go find someone else Lorena's actual wording in response to me was "The law is not everything. It's what happens at Migrations, regulations they pass on a monthly basis, uses and costumes. So, working with our firm entails trusting us. Of course, you are free to continue doing your own research and go with the professional you feel more comfortable with." - what a chickenshit answer. Rubilar said the same thing to me, in essence: if you don't trust me, then hire someone else.

ummmm, nope! unacceptable. "Trust, But Verify" is the only way to do business.

that being said, here is some specific requirements from ARCA/Lorena/ArgentinaResidency.com that you could compare to Immigrar.com, @Digital Nomad:

"[Trusts/Accountant Letters are] the way to make things work for a client. I've worked on thousands of Trusts Agreements, my clients have followed strictly my instructions, and so far, not one case has been rejected in my professional career. [...] If you have an accountant (doesn't need to be CPA, just Accountant would be enough) willing to sign a statement that basically states about the trust and the money you get from it every month, then we could go further for a Financier Application for one year, renewable each year for one year more, and which can be turned into `permanent after 3 complete years. For renewing you will need to prove you have stayed in Argentina for at least 6.5 months each year, you have received the payments from the trust for a minimum of approx $18,000 during the year (it could be twice a year, not necessarily every month), and that you have wired money from your account in the US into your bank account in Argentina for a total of approx $15,000 during the year of your residency. [For trusts] I need a grantor. Someone who could be a friend or relative of yours. Basically, someone who is granting the trust in your name. I also need a trustee. Someone who would act as the person following the will of the grantor. In any case, any of them will do anything. It is just for the purpose of the [Migraciones requirements]. If you think you could have two people playing the roles of grantor and trustee, we are in. The money is not the problem in your case. It is how you instrument the income." [and] "The answer to your question is NO. You cannot wire funds and that's it." (Dec2023)

anyone know someone who has Pesified/Peso-ified transfers to be eligible for Rentista this year? i can't find a single person. my gf spoke to someone on a facebook forum that was doing Pensionista, and they had to show at least a month of bank deposits to Banco Nacion.

 

[FuturoBA]

@StatusNomadicus IIRC your end goal is to get citizenship/passport do you know where you will be when you apply? Last I read you were still in Cordoba. Reason is I just listened to this podcast with BowTiedMara and that CABA is flooded with applications from the Russians and there's only eight judges processing them, so to expedite he recommends somewhere else or the Province.

Podcast: The Best Citizenships in Latin America - IMI - Investment Migration Insider

Latin America has some the world's fastest and easiest paths to citizenship. But which LatAm citizenships are best suited for your needs?

www.imidaily.com

jump to the 49 min mark discussions more specific about Argentina.

 

[Digital Nomad]

the name listed on the site is Ceciia Pernigotti, which does have a listing in the BsAs lawyers search:

Colegio Público de Abogados de Capital Federal

w3.cpacf.org.ar

i always email these people and ask basic questions, so try it out! it tells us not only that they actually respond and speak English as claimed, but then you can get them to commit to prices, timelines, and book a free or cheap consultation for your specific case (and get actual legal advice). i found the lawyers in CABA were all completely different in their prices, approaches, and paperwork requirements. for instance, the often-referred Lorena from ARCA will not do citizenship after you get residency: https://argentinaresidency.com/

and she also swears that the timeline is 5 years for citizenship, not 2-3 years as other attorneys have claimed. these are pretty big differences. also, she's one of a couple lawyers that got butt-hurt when i asked questions and was researching the actual texts of the laws. you can do your own messaging, but when i ask a professional for the actual law, or their reasoning based on the Migraciones text, and they respond with something like 'oh well you just need to trust us!' - i immediately go find someone else Lorena's actual wording in response to me was "The law is not everything. It's what happens at Migrations, regulations they pass on a monthly basis, uses and costumes. So, working with our firm entails trusting us. Of course, you are free to continue doing your own research and go with the professional you feel more comfortable with." - what a chickenshit answer. Rubilar said the same thing to me, in essence: if you don't trust me, then hire someone else.

ummmm, nope! unacceptable. "Trust, But Verify" is the only way to do business.

that being said, here is some specific requirements from ARCA/Lorena/ArgentinaResidency.com that you could compare to Immigrar.com, @Digital Nomad:

"[Trusts/Accountant Letters are] the way to make things work for a client. I've worked on thousands of Trusts Agreements, my clients have followed strictly my instructions, and so far, not one case has been rejected in my professional career. [...] If you have an accountant (doesn't need to be CPA, just Accountant would be enough) willing to sign a statement that basically states about the trust and the money you get from it every month, then we could go further for a Financier Application for one year, renewable each year for one year more, and which can be turned into `permanent after 3 complete years. For renewing you will need to prove you have stayed in Argentina for at least 6.5 months each year, you have received the payments from the trust for a minimum of approx $18,000 during the year (it could be twice a year, not necessarily every month), and that you have wired money from your account in the US into your bank account in Argentina for a total of approx $15,000 during the year of your residency. [For trusts] I need a grantor. Someone who could be a friend or relative of yours. Basically, someone who is granting the trust in your name. I also need a trustee. Someone who would act as the person following the will of the grantor. In any case, any of them will do anything. It is just for the purpose of the [Migraciones requirements]. If you think you could have two people playing the roles of grantor and trustee, we are in. The money is not the problem in your case. It is how you instrument the income." [and] "The answer to your question is NO. You cannot wire funds and that's it." (Dec2023)

anyone know someone who has Pesified/Peso-ified transfers to be eligible for Rentista this year? i can't find a single person. my gf spoke to someone on a facebook forum that was doing Pensionista, and they had to show at least a month of bank deposits to Banco Nacion.

Thanks for the advice @StatusNomadicus! Great advice.

 

[Digital Nomad]

@StatusNomadicus IIRC your end goal is to get citizenship/passport do you know where you will be when you apply? Last I read you were still in Cordoba. Reason is I just listened to this podcast with BowTiedMara and that CABA is flooded with applications from the Russians and there's only eight judges processing them, so to expedite he recommends somewhere else or the Province.

Podcast: The Best Citizenships in Latin America - IMI - Investment Migration Insider

Latin America has some the world's fastest and easiest paths to citizenship. But which LatAm citizenships are best suited for your needs?

www.imidaily.com

jump to the 49 min mark discussions more specific about Argentina.

Yes many, many Russians here! You can hear Russian all over the place. Seem to be a lot of them and many with children but they all seem very respectable and seem to have money.

 

[James Bond]

They tell you to trust them because they can't tell you that they have "their" people in the system, people they bribe to get stuff done. Even the most prestigious and successful professionals have to do that.

Did you ask the lawyers you've been in touch with if they can provide referrals that you can actually contact? In this country, you'll often hear that you need to work with escribanos and lawyers "de mucha confianza," that's good advice.

A good and honest Escribano is a must in Argentina. You will at some point or another need a good one.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

CABA is flooded with applications

good point, thanks for the link! my initial guess was either BsAs would be streamlined due to the high Expat population, or it would be a huge wait. so far, Cordoba Capital has been successful, though i disagree with @BowTiedMara that it is "Cordobased" because actually BsAs is superior in many ways. my next city (going in population size order, skipping Rosario since driving along the outskirts was enough for me) is Mendoza.

i'll be renewing in Mendoza, depending on how that works (renewed Tourist Visa in BsAs, applied and submitted Residency in Cordoba, now am i allowed to change provinces/delegations before i get my DNI?) - and for citizenship, i hope to be able to ask at my 1-year mark at the local Federal Court and see how backed-up they are...and if the rumor of being able to apply for citizenship a year early, since the wait is 18 months sometimees, is true or just made-up.

i'll probably just keep traveling for good weather, moving every 2-4 months, until i find a Court that will let me apply early. worst-case at 2 years, i'll apply wherever i'm at. hopefully we all have a LOT more data about all of this, by then, and an improved immigrations process, looking at you, Migraciones!!

Russians

i only saw a few in Villa Crespo, Nov-Dec2023. i suspect if i were a Russian/Ukrainian/etc. i would be laying very low until Zelenskyy and NATO are done killing the entire male population :/

referrals

Rubilar sent a bunch of redacted stuff that looked like a 1994 Xerox, but said he can't give referrals due to client privacy (even though i specifically asked referrals who would be willing to share; i would be, to help others) - he offered this as his referral evidence:

304 cases won / успешные дела | rubilar

www.rubilarcitizenship.com

Гражданство Аргентина: адвокат Кристиан Рубилар

Многие спрашивают контакты моих клиентов, чьи дела я уже выиграл. Не раз отвечал, что профессиональная этика и защита конфиденциальности моих клиентов не позволяют мне этого делать. Однако РикиДжеймс — гражданин США, теперь уже и Аргентины,— один из моих бывших клиентов, сам предложил оставить...

t.me

 

[Vince]

good point, thanks for the link! my initial guess was either BsAs would be streamlined due to the high Expat population, or it would be a huge wait. so far, Cordoba Capital has been successful, though i disagree with @BowTiedMara that it is "Cordobased" because actually BsAs is superior in many ways. my next city (going in population size order, skipping Rosario since driving along the outskirts was enough for me) is Mendoza.

i'll be renewing in Mendoza, depending on how that works (renewed Tourist Visa in BsAs, applied and submitted Residency in Cordoba, now am i allowed to change provinces/delegations before i get my DNI?) - and for citizenship, i hope to be able to ask at my 1-year mark at the local Federal Court and see how backed-up they are...and if the rumor of being able to apply for citizenship a year early, since the wait is 18 months sometimees, is true or just made-up.

i'll probably just keep traveling for good weather, moving every 2-4 months, until i find a Court that will let me apply early. worst-case at 2 years, i'll apply wherever i'm at. hopefully we all have a LOT more data about all of this, by then, and an improved immigrations process, looking at you, Migraciones!!


i only saw a few in Villa Crespo, Nov-Dec2023. i suspect if i were a Russian/Ukrainian/etc. i would be laying very low until Zelenskyy and NATO are done killing the entire male population :/


Rubilar sent a bunch of redacted stuff that looked like a 1994 Xerox, but said he can't give referrals due to client privacy (even though i specifically asked referrals who would be willing to share; i would be, to help others) - he offered this as his referral evidence:

304 cases won / успешные дела | rubilar

www.rubilarcitizenship.com

Гражданство Аргентина: адвокат Кристиан Рубилар

Многие спрашивают контакты моих клиентов, чьи дела я уже выиграл. Не раз отвечал, что профессиональная этика и защита конфиденциальности моих клиентов не позволяют мне этого делать. Однако РикиДжеймс — гражданин США, теперь уже и Аргентины,— один из моих бывших клиентов, сам предложил оставить...

t.me

You should be congratulated for going at it alone and great for everyone you are documenting it. I've never seen that in many years in Argentina. I think it's great you're traveling around getting to know Argentina. Big country with a lot of great cities. I would like to see even more of it in the future.

Someone posted a video online the other day inside Russia and also Ukraine and the one thing both videos had in common were the lack of many males. Mostly females. Understandable why so many want to come to Argentina to flee the war.

Rubilar has been around a long time so he must have some success. But I would guess maybe word of mouth with current clients. I don't understand why he doesn't update his website. Like going back in time.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

lack of many males. Mostly females

i told my lady that if i were a Digital Nomad single guy, i would be planning my move to Ukraine after the war...there's going to be a big demand for XY chromosomes. super sad that in 2024 we humans are still bombing each other

Big country with a lot of great cities

i think once the annoying laws are gone (restricting flights, restricting rental cars, not allowing MercadoLibre for foreigners, all the annoying stuff before you get a DNI) more people will come here. especially as the EU, UK, and USA decline. this kind of stuff:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1801441790668460159

 

[Larry]

i told my lady that if i were a Digital Nomad single guy, i would be planning my move to Ukraine after the war...there's going to be a big demand for XY chromosomes. super sad that in 2024 we humans are still bombing each other


i think once the annoying laws are gone (restricting flights, restricting rental cars, not allowing MercadoLibre for foreigners, all the annoying stuff before you get a DNI) more people will come here. especially as the EU, UK, and USA decline. this kind of stuff:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1801441790668460159

Very very very sad you are right we need to be bombing and killing one another all for land.

 

[Uncle Wong]

i told my lady that if i were a Digital Nomad single guy, i would be planning my move to Ukraine after the war...there's going to be a big demand for XY chromosomes. super sad that in 2024 we humans are still bombing each other


i think once the annoying laws are gone (restricting flights, restricting rental cars, not allowing MercadoLibre for foreigners, all the annoying stuff before you get a DNI) more people will come here. especially as the EU, UK, and USA decline. this kind of stuff:

I was thinking the same thing that after Russia and Ukraine are done fighting one another and all the men dying, there will be a need there for men. I saw a sad video the other day in Ukraine of them forcing some poor guy to the frontlines. He was crying and didn't want to go. I am single and met a few Ukrainian females in my travels and they are very beautiful. Same as Russian women.

I see many Russian women are heading to Mexico now looking to meet males. Difficult to believe in this day and age that we would be experiencing what we are today and it seems to be getting worse. Looks like several countries in the EU will resort to conscription and forcing males to sign up for military service if this keeps up. Makes a country like Argentina desirable but I saw even Milei probably isn't against conscription in the future.

 

[earlyretirement]

the name listed on the site is Ceciia Pernigotti, which does have a listing in the BsAs lawyers search:

Colegio Público de Abogados de Capital Federal

w3.cpacf.org.ar

i always email these people and ask basic questions, so try it out! it tells us not only that they actually respond and speak English as claimed, but then you can get them to commit to prices, timelines, and book a free or cheap consultation for your specific case (and get actual legal advice). i found the lawyers in CABA were all completely different in their prices, approaches, and paperwork requirements. for instance, the often-referred Lorena from ARCA will not do citizenship after you get residency: https://argentinaresidency.com/

and she also swears that the timeline is 5 years for citizenship, not 2-3 years as other attorneys have claimed. these are pretty big differences. also, she's one of a couple lawyers that got butt-hurt when i asked questions and was researching the actual texts of the laws. you can do your own messaging, but when i ask a professional for the actual law, or their reasoning based on the Migraciones text, and they respond with something like 'oh well you just need to trust us!' - i immediately go find someone else Lorena's actual wording in response to me was "The law is not everything. It's what happens at Migrations, regulations they pass on a monthly basis, uses and costumes. So, working with our firm entails trusting us. Of course, you are free to continue doing your own research and go with the professional you feel more comfortable with." - what a chickenshit answer. Rubilar said the same thing to me, in essence: if you don't trust me, then hire someone else.

ummmm, nope! unacceptable. "Trust, But Verify" is the only way to do business.

that being said, here is some specific requirements from ARCA/Lorena/ArgentinaResidency.com that you could compare to Immigrar.com, @Digital Nomad:

"[Trusts/Accountant Letters are] the way to make things work for a client. I've worked on thousands of Trusts Agreements, my clients have followed strictly my instructions, and so far, not one case has been rejected in my professional career. [...] If you have an accountant (doesn't need to be CPA, just Accountant would be enough) willing to sign a statement that basically states about the trust and the money you get from it every month, then we could go further for a Financier Application for one year, renewable each year for one year more, and which can be turned into `permanent after 3 complete years. For renewing you will need to prove you have stayed in Argentina for at least 6.5 months each year, you have received the payments from the trust for a minimum of approx $18,000 during the year (it could be twice a year, not necessarily every month), and that you have wired money from your account in the US into your bank account in Argentina for a total of approx $15,000 during the year of your residency. [For trusts] I need a grantor. Someone who could be a friend or relative of yours. Basically, someone who is granting the trust in your name. I also need a trustee. Someone who would act as the person following the will of the grantor. In any case, any of them will do anything. It is just for the purpose of the [Migraciones requirements]. If you think you could have two people playing the roles of grantor and trustee, we are in. The money is not the problem in your case. It is how you instrument the income." [and] "The answer to your question is NO. You cannot wire funds and that's it." (Dec2023)

anyone know someone who has Pesified/Peso-ified transfers to be eligible for Rentista this year? i can't find a single person. my gf spoke to someone on a facebook forum that was doing Pensionista, and they had to show at least a month of bank deposits to Banco Nacion.

Great job @StatusNomadicus of documenting your journey in all of this. I don't know anyone that has done it all alone and I applaud you for sharing information. Not enough of that goes on these days and for whatever reason all the less for Argentina.

I'm one of the ones that used Lorena at ARCA. She did a fantastic job for me so many years ago. I used her as clients of mine used her and recommended her. That's how I found her. She also helped many of my clients get their DNI's but as you mentioned, she doesn't handle citizenship. Like you, she did ask me to "trust her" and I did. I found her timelines to be accurate. I am a bit leery with a lot of these lawyers that say 2-3 years. Maybe they can but most people that I know that do end up getting Citizenship it takes longer than that.

I have no clue if they have contacts within the government or if they have to pay any fee. I never asked nor I doubt anyone would admit to that. But not everyone pays bribes, etc. I have owned many corporations in Argentina over the past 22 years. I have built custom homes and even developed a hotel in Recoleta. Of course, I got asked to pay many bribes. I never did. Not once. It would have probably expedited things drastically but I never wanted to enter that realm because once you do, you will probably get hit up to pay a bribe every time you want something done. Better to do it honestly and legally even if it takes longer. I don't fault anyone that might do that but I've never done that myself.

Probably not smart of me as things would have been faster and easier but then again things probably for many people is going to spell doom. Milei and his administration are out to stomp all of this corruption into the ground.

 

[FuturoBA]

Censored forum someone posted their friend received citizenship in 2 years and 1 month w Rubilar.

Citizenship

This is a great thread with lots of useful information. I made an account because I need to get some clarifications. Me and my wife and son (all non argentine nationals) will travel to BA and my wife will give birth to our second son there. After gleaning what I can from the thread I have the...

baexpats.org

 

[GraceH]

That is great! Very fast. Good news. I’d be curious to hear the situation behind the person applying.

 

[Digital Nomad]

That is great! Very fast. Good news. I’d be curious to hear the situation behind the person applying.

I'd also love to hear the details of the case. Why do you think actual people that went through the process don't post first hand details of their cases online? I almost never see any actual people posting about success stories. Strange.

That poster that posted about it said that the person didn't have residency. Overstayed his visa and was originally from the EU (not Spanish speaking country). He has local income in Argentina but only applied with income from home country.

Still good to read positive cases and not taking too long.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

Why do you think actual people that went through the process don't post first hand details of their cases online? I almost never see any actual people posting about success stories. Strange.

it's everywhere, from Reddit to the old censored expats forum, but it stops now!


1. the time has come for my Precaria Renewal (renovación) - am i the first one on this forum to do this? here's the Chat Bot on Migraciones' website about the steps:

"¿Cómo renuevo mi certificado de residencia precaria?
Para solicitara la renovación de tu Certificado de Residencia Precaria, ingresá aquí [http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/accesible/consultaTramitePrecaria/ConsultaUnificada.php]. Completá los datos con tu número de expediente (figura en el margen superior izquierdo de tu Certificado de Residencia Precaria) y tu fecha de nacimiento. Seleccioná el botón Solicite la renovación de su Precaria. Dentro de los siguientes diez (10) días hábiles podrás descargarla desde la misma plataforma.
Si tenés un Permiso de Permanencia Transitorio (PPT) o un Certificado de Residencia Precaria emitido por Control de Permanencia deberás gestionar la renovación enviando un correo electrónico a: gestión.administrati@migraciones.gov.ar.
Si tenés un Certificado de Residencia Precaria emitido en un trámite Judicializado deberás gestionar la renovación enviando un correo electrónico a: extranjerosjudicializados@migraciones.gov.ar
IMPORTANTE: Excepcionalmente y atento la situación de emergencia sanitaria se dará curso a tu solicitud si te encontrás fuera del Territorio Argentino."

"How do I renew my Precaria residence certificate?
To request the renewal of your Precaria Residence Certificate, go here [http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/accesible/consultaTramitePrecaria/ConsultaUnifica.php]. Complete the data with your file number (it appears in the upper left corner of your Precaria Residence Certificate) and your date of birth. Select the button Request the renewal of your Precaria. Within the next ten (10) business days you will be able to download it from the same platform.
If you have a Temporary Permanence Permit (PPT) or a Precaria Residence Certificate issued by Permanence Control, you must manage the renewal by sending an email to: Gestión.administrati@migraciones.gov.ar.
If you have a Precaria Residence Certificate issued in a Judicialized procedure, you must manage the renewal by sending an email to: buenosjudicializados@migraciones.gov.ar
IMPORTANT: Exceptionally and in view of the health emergency situation, your request will be processed if you are outside the Argentine Territory."


2. okay well 15 days before the expiration date of a 90-day Precaria, a new button appeared (yes, i check every morning with coffee, for changes, since i want a DNI number). "Solicite la renovación de su Precaria" - request the renewal of your Precaria. i clicked it, and it just went to an Error message. this happened daily, although a new text box appeared recently with a "Fecha renovación Precaria" field with a date that is 15 days prior to my Precaria expiration (this must be when i clicked it first). see attachment to compare, if you're doing the same process (redacted for my privacy of course). the printable version doesn't have the colors, and the formatting is different, FYI.

3. welp, no new Precaria appeared at the 10-day-prior mark, and clicking the buttons still does nothing, so i took you guys' advice from last time and hit up the old Chat Bot on the Migraciones site. i got connected to Lorena (human) who then said that my renewal request was showing the same on her end (15 days prior submitted), and i might get an email with updates today, but if i don't, chat with them on Thursday. then, she proceeded to tell me that i should show-up for the Summons that the Cordoba Migraciones gave me. uhhhh, what? i've been on this thing like <insert simile> and i wouldn't have come to Mendoza if i wasn't done in Cordoba. she then says Cordoba lost my digital fingerprints, and pasted-in the text she could see on her side:

"PRESENTARSE EN LA DELEGACION A FIN DE REALIZAR NUEVAMENTE LA BIOMETRIA Y DEBERA PRESENTAR DOCUMENTACIóN QUE ACREDITE EL CRITERIO DE RENTISTA, TITULO DE PROPIEDAD, CONTRATO DE LOCACIóN DEL CUAL SURJA LA RENTA PERCIBIDA”

“APPEAR AT THE [Cordoba] DELEGATION IN ORDER TO CARRY OUT THE BIOMETRY [fingerprints] AND YOU MUST PRESENT DOCUMENTATION THAT CREDITS THE CRITERION OF RENTIST, PROPERTY TITLE, LOCATION CONTRACT FROM WHICH THE RECEIVED INCOME ARISES"

(of note, i am doing a Bank Savings rentista application, so i'm not sure why they wrote that i have a property - i don't own any real estate)

4. supposedly if all of this clusterfuck hadn't happened, you'd be able to click on your new Precaria PDF or get it in your email before the expiration/vencimiento. but this is as far as i got, so i'll finish updating once i do all my new tasks. will i be able to do a new Certificado de Domicilio with the Mendoza police with temporary Airbnb housing? will i not need an appointment at the Mendoza Migraciones like the chat folks in Buenos Aires said? will they need some new documents that i can't possibly acquire in a week? will i be illegal next week, the exact month that i'm actively negotiating a small real estate deal for Crypto in Mendoza?? the sitcom continues

 

[Betsy Ross]

it's everywhere, from Reddit to the old censored expats forum, but it stops now!


1. the time has come for my Precaria Renewal (renovación) - am i the first one on this forum to do this? here's the Chat Bot on Migraciones' website about the steps:

"¿Cómo renuevo mi certificado de residencia precaria?
Para solicitara la renovación de tu Certificado de Residencia Precaria, ingresá aquí [http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/accesible/consultaTramitePrecaria/ConsultaUnificada.php]. Completá los datos con tu número de expediente (figura en el margen superior izquierdo de tu Certificado de Residencia Precaria) y tu fecha de nacimiento. Seleccioná el botón Solicite la renovación de su Precaria. Dentro de los siguientes diez (10) días hábiles podrás descargarla desde la misma plataforma.
Si tenés un Permiso de Permanencia Transitorio (PPT) o un Certificado de Residencia Precaria emitido por Control de Permanencia deberás gestionar la renovación enviando un correo electrónico a: gestión.administrati@migraciones.gov.ar.
Si tenés un Certificado de Residencia Precaria emitido en un trámite Judicializado deberás gestionar la renovación enviando un correo electrónico a: extranjerosjudicializados@migraciones.gov.ar
IMPORTANTE: Excepcionalmente y atento la situación de emergencia sanitaria se dará curso a tu solicitud si te encontrás fuera del Territorio Argentino."

"How do I renew my Precaria residence certificate?
To request the renewal of your Precaria Residence Certificate, go here [http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/accesible/consultaTramitePrecaria/ConsultaUnifica.php]. Complete the data with your file number (it appears in the upper left corner of your Precaria Residence Certificate) and your date of birth. Select the button Request the renewal of your Precaria. Within the next ten (10) business days you will be able to download it from the same platform.
If you have a Temporary Permanence Permit (PPT) or a Precaria Residence Certificate issued by Permanence Control, you must manage the renewal by sending an email to: Gestión.administrati@migraciones.gov.ar.
If you have a Precaria Residence Certificate issued in a Judicialized procedure, you must manage the renewal by sending an email to: buenosjudicializados@migraciones.gov.ar
IMPORTANT: Exceptionally and in view of the health emergency situation, your request will be processed if you are outside the Argentine Territory."


2. okay well 15 days before the expiration date of a 90-day Precaria, a new button appeared (yes, i check every morning with coffee, for changes, since i want a DNI number). "Solicite la renovación de su Precaria" - request the renewal of your Precaria. i clicked it, and it just went to an Error message. this happened daily, although a new text box appeared recently with a "Fecha renovación Precaria" field with a date that is 15 days prior to my Precaria expiration (this must be when i clicked it first). see attachment to compare, if you're doing the same process (redacted for my privacy of course). the printable version doesn't have the colors, and the formatting is different, FYI.

3. welp, no new Precaria appeared at the 10-day-prior mark, and clicking the buttons still does nothing, so i took you guys' advice from last time and hit up the old Chat Bot on the Migraciones site. i got connected to Lorena (human) who then said that my renewal request was showing the same on her end (15 days prior submitted), and i might get an email with updates today, but if i don't, chat with them on Thursday. then, she proceeded to tell me that i should show-up for the Summons that the Cordoba Migraciones gave me. uhhhh, what? i've been on this thing like <insert simile> and i wouldn't have come to Mendoza if i wasn't done in Cordoba. she then says Cordoba lost my digital fingerprints, and pasted-in the text she could see on her side:

"PRESENTARSE EN LA DELEGACION A FIN DE REALIZAR NUEVAMENTE LA BIOMETRIA Y DEBERA PRESENTAR DOCUMENTACIóN QUE ACREDITE EL CRITERIO DE RENTISTA, TITULO DE PROPIEDAD, CONTRATO DE LOCACIóN DEL CUAL SURJA LA RENTA PERCIBIDA”

“APPEAR AT THE [Cordoba] DELEGATION IN ORDER TO CARRY OUT THE BIOMETRY [fingerprints] AND YOU MUST PRESENT DOCUMENTATION THAT CREDITS THE CRITERION OF RENTIST, PROPERTY TITLE, LOCATION CONTRACT FROM WHICH THE RECEIVED INCOME ARISES"

(of note, i am doing a Bank Savings rentista application, so i'm not sure why they wrote that i have a property - i don't own any real estate)

4. supposedly if all of this clusterfuck hadn't happened, you'd be able to click on your new Precaria PDF or get it in your email before the expiration/vencimiento. but this is as far as i got, so i'll finish updating once i do all my new tasks. will i be able to do a new Certificado de Domicilio with the Mendoza police with temporary Airbnb housing? will i not need an appointment at the Mendoza Migraciones like the chat folks in Buenos Aires said? will they need some new documents that i can't possibly acquire in a week? will i be illegal next week, the exact month that i'm actively negotiating a small real estate deal for Crypto in Mendoza?? the sitcom continues

Congrats @StatusNomadicus on making it this far and not pulling out all your hair! And thanks for sharing the process for everyone. I hope it helps many people and you are ultimately successful in getting this done.