Argentina Rentista Visa for 2024? What is the minimum income now for retirement visa for Argentina?

[Uncle Wong]

What I am puzzled at is why do they make it so easy for people of other Mercosur nations to get residency here and get their DNIs and permanent residency and so difficult for people from first world countries? Doesn't make sense to me when we would contribute far more than someone from Venezuela. The process could definitely be streamlined. I have several friends from Colombia, Brazil and Venezuela and moved to Argentina and relatively simple for them from Day 1. This makes NO sense to me.

 

[Wally]

i think if Milei's cabinet can fix this one thing - the complete lack of stability and ease in moving people and property and doing business here in Argentina - this country will be one of the most prosperous. it's got everything, except everything from flights to residencies to finance are ALL totally unknown. i took a risk moving here, but of course there are thousands of people like us who want to live here, but won't accept the annoying 'Unknowns' of Argentina. once there's an easy pathway, i think people will be coming here in droves. i know several who are watching my case closely, given the USA's decline.


for sure, i tried explaining this to the seller/notary, about how US folks don't hoard physical Dollars because we're guaranteed to lose to 2% MINIMUM inflation constantly, but i think Argentines are just happy with that loss compared to any other possibility (whereas USA folks invest in stocks/mutual funds, use treasury bonds, IRAs, precious metals, etc. to combat Dollar value loss). interesting difference, but also the middle and upper classes in Argentina with generational wealth, and paid-off homes, don't have anywhere near the expenses of USA folks in a similar class, so they don't necessarily NEED to make their Dollars 'work for them' in that sense. super different mindset. also, i would never keep physical Dollars because they can burn, get torn, etc. - precious metals are pretty hardy : )

i think i can convince the Buyer to take Bitcoin, since he does Mining and already owns some cryptos, but i'm sure he'll sell most of it for Dollars that he will keep in his other house for physical storage. he's worried about being "the first one in Mendoza Province to have an Escritura/title/deed showing anything other than Dollars, since he doesn't want attention drawn to him. my Escribanía/notary folks also have NEVER heard of anyone using Crypto - they have only heard rumors of people in CABA and Europe and USA doing it. but they're clueless other than they understand it is supposedly legal now, and they agree that a Buyer and Seller can transact on the blockchain with an immutable transaction as evidence of the payment. so, the tech and laws are there, but who will be the first to draw attention to themselves, especially with the IRS being so anti-crypto in the USA, and the AFIP-IRS supposed information sharing soon? no one knows!


well, it should, but the Disposición was written without including part of the details :/

Article 3: "Asimismo, serán admisibles recursos propios depositados en cuentas bancarias en el extranjero, siempre y cuando se acreditare en forma indubitable la licitud del origen de dichos fondos."

Argentina.gob.ar

Portal oficial del Estado argentino. Conocé cómo hacer trámites en organismos públicos, tramitalos en línea y recibí servicios digitales y beneficios.

www.argentina.gob.ar

the questions i've been trying to get actual answers to (for people who save money and want to live long-term in Argentina) are:

1. what kind of bank account abroad? because initially in CABA some lawyers were saying a Trust could work, using a bank account that deposits money monthly. then more lawyers said no, Argentine government folks don't understand Trusts and they would deny it.

2. how would the money be counted, and how does it need to enter Argentina? because Cordoba Province immigrations folks told me initially that my foreign bank account for Rentista Savings needed to be income in interest, which i discussed in another thread; i told them that would be a savings account with something over a million US Dollars, which 99% of people would never have (and billionaires don't just have millions in cash sitting in a checking/savings account, losing to inflation...maybe a 5% HYSA would be the only thing to hold liquid Dollars in).

3. does the monthly amount even need to enter Argentina? because using my US credit card on Airbnb and at restaurants and shops, i can live perfectly fine in any big city here, with a great exchange rate. why bring money in, if it isn't specifically required in the law? this is something that the government needs to remove as an 'Unknown' so the Migraciones folks can't just make stuff up.

4. when the money enters Argentina, does it need to be in a Wire transfer at the official rate, or can a paper trail from my US account to Western Union to Argentine Peso account cash deposit work? both do the same thing, with way better results for everyone involved (the residency-seeker doesn't lose money to a bank, and they have more money to spend in the country).

...and many others about the details. why is a homeowner Rentier in the USA allowed to deposit monthly into their Argentine account, and supposedly i can't do this as a Rentista Savings guy? the law is from June 2023, so there's been a year to figure all this stuff out, but the Provinces aren't on the same page as CABA (and i don't think they have autonomy about this; i think the supervisors in CABA rule over all).


i haven't used one yet, but they've quoted me 3-5% in the past for Crypto, so with a fee-free Western Union (if any location actually has the cash amount) wouldn't be that much more expensive, would it? i know nothing about the real-world results of Cuevas.


so far, everyone has just been very adamant that my "income" (paying myself with a HYSA to my USA checking account, monthly, fixed/automatic) needs to be deposited into a local bank account, and the only one so far i've been able to open with a Precaria is Banco Nación (only a Savings/ahorros account, and i think i have to wait 6 months to open a Checking/corriente account). i don't know the interest amount, and i wasn't allowed to open a USD account, only a Pesos account with a MasterCard debit card linked to it. i wish i knew someone who had experience with this, but it seems like no one has actually succeeded in Rentista Savings yet (and the Peso-depositing requirement for all Rentista seems to change depending on which Expat you ask...some say you just have to deposit a month, once per year).


well, according to the Mendoza supervisor it's the last step if i want a DNI - deposit a year's worth of Argentine salary to a local Pesos bank account, and live off that money. here's some more references to bringing money into Argentina for Rentista stuff - the lawyers are doing the same thing (i consulted many, paid several for their opinions) they just hold your hand along the way until you get a DNI/residency. from the old censored forum, discussing bringing 1,300 Dollars per month via transfer into an Argentine account @Spend Thrift:

What happens after USD $12,000?

I tried to do a search of existing threads, so hopefully I didn't just miss someone else's answer, but: I've heard that there's a $12,000 limit on bringing in USD as an individual. Since rentistas currently have to show $1,300 per month brought into a local bank account in USD, does anyone know...

baexpats.org

@Blockchain @enbits sure the Official Rate has always been a joke, and slightly less now, but for me i'm going to try everything i can do get the WU/Blue rate, since it's already cost me hundreds of bucks for paperwork/accountants/lawyer consults/translations/FedEx to get to this point of having 8 months legally in Argentina. losing some ~34% of my Dollars to do a transfer would be unacceptable for me, doing that monthly for 2 years straight, or 2 lump sums total before applying for citizenship. i would probably just enroll in a 4-year degree program at the University and take a couple classes until i have my 2 years in country; would be much cheaper, unless you're paying private university tuition (but even then, i don't think it would be that different, but i'd have to do the rough math if i got to that last resort. paying a lawyer would be the most expensive and still unknown, in my opinion)


how many times are you going to mention prices doubling and tripling? you're not even here, dude.

Medical - Healthcare medical monthly premiums are going to get increased!

Does anyone know how much their monthly medical healthcare insurance premiums are going to get increased? I got a call saying it would get increased but the call got disconnected and I can't get anyone on the phone now. Does anyone know if it's all the medical providers that are going up? I...

www.expatsba.com

Question to local members

Hi Vino! Not only restaurant food is better, the food in general tastes much better. Vegetables and fruits, which may not look as picture perfect as in the States and Europe, but they taste SO much better. For example, those big globe red grapes that we see everywhere now, are sweeter than any...

www.expatsba.com

i've debunked the peronist crap the 5% of the commies here were repeating post-election, when they were crying about Milei winning and just made stuff up 24/7. an empanada today should cost 50 cents USD on the street just like always. of course if you want to pay $1 or $1.50 USD for a "gourmet" empanada at a fancy bakery, or a really huge one at a nice restaurant, go ahead 🙂

8,690 Pesos for a dozen = 725 Pesos per, divided by real-world MEP is 1233 MasterCard last night = 59 cents using a credit card using PedidosYa delivery (might have a delivery fee if you don't have Plus), but i'm sure if i walk around today i can find empanadas for anywhere from 50 cents to $2 USD depending on the quality and quantity of food. example: https://www.pedidosya.com.ar/restaurantes/mendoza/de-un-rincon-de-la-boca-cafeteria-y-panaderia-menu

02Feb: https://www.expatsba.com/threads/wh...en-its-overpriced-in-argentina.885/post-11301
08Apr: https://www.expatsba.com/threads/cr...e-mep-transaction-repo-dec2023.576/post-15042

"Argentinian empanadas are smaller than in Chile, and so are pastries, the famous facturas. They are cheap—about 50 cents each for the most common ones. Every bakery usually has an assortment" https://correresmidestino.com/ham-and-cheese-and-other-foods/

Great cheap empanadas - only $0.50 each - Review of La Empanaderia, Buenos Aires, Argentina - Tripadvisor

La Empanaderia: Great cheap empanadas - only $0.50 each - See 9 traveler reviews, candid photos, and great deals for Buenos Aires, Argentina, at Tripadvisor.

www.tripadvisor.com

life is 1/4 to 1/2 the price in Argentina versus the USA, aside from some anomalies like milk and gasoline, but if you eat veggies and meat like me, the cost of eating/cooking is TINY compared to prices in the US.

@StatusNomadicus I think you're too fixated on the cash vs. crypto angle. We never use cash much in the States but here it is all they really trust on property purchases. If you look back at the history of their banking system you will understand why they don't trust anything else. Honestly it isn't too difficult if you have dependable people involved. It is how most of us purchased our properties.

Most of us just sold stocks and cashed out and not like you're responsible for bringing cash in bags here. You're just making a wire transfer to a financial institution that arranges everything. Then at closing the seller is just paid right then and there. Not like people are having to transport cash around. If the seller has an account outside of Argentina you can just wire to their account and forego cash.

Sounds complicated but it really is not too difficult. I get what you are saying about crypto being easier but it is just too new for locals and adoption isn't likely to be too quick. You have to consider lost opportunity costs of waiting for someone to accept and buy that way. People are making the paying in cash too big of a deal. It isn't that difficult.

 

[Digital Nomad]

What I am puzzled at is why do they make it so easy for people of other Mercosur nations to get residency here and get their DNIs and permanent residency and so difficult for people from first world countries? Doesn't make sense to me when we would contribute far more than someone from Venezuela. The process could definitely be streamlined. I have several friends from Colombia, Brazil and Venezuela and moved to Argentina and relatively simple for them from Day 1. This makes NO sense to me.

Yep. It is very very easy for citizens in Mercosur to study, work and live here with no issues. I met lots of Venezuelans here and it seems like it's very easy for them.

I think the difference is that for them, they need to work here and for most expats or people from first world nations, salaries are way too low here so no one is interested in working here. But people just overstay here. No one is really getting deported at all. Just pay a fine and no problem. Milei just told all of Venezuela yesterday they are welcome here. I doubt they will care about Americans moving here.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

no one gets back even after 2 weeks

this will be the theme for your stay, from gyms to realtors to most things. 80% of Argentines don't seem to really 'work' in the USA hustle sense. the other 20% are absolutely professional and work their asses off, and usually have international business/travel as well. once i find hard-working folks, i try to pay them and hire them continually. the same happens with some folks i know in eastern Arizona, who rent property on Airbnb/VRBO - no one there wants to work, so sometimes they don't have people to clean their rental property.

what's your goal, @Matt G? if you read these forums and the old censored one, there is a ton of info over the years.

If it's easy for them I figure it would be easy for me as an American to stay too.

Venezuela is MerCoSur so they have more access, just like i said about EU states having better access to working and living in the EU, whereas i as a USA passport holder can only visit those EU and Schengen countries for 3 months at a time.

Preguntas Frecuentes - Residencias

**1 - ¿Cómo obtengo una residencia permanente en la Argentina?** La actual legislación migratoria permite acceder a una residencia permanente acreditando: - Ser familiar de nacional argentino. - Ser familiar de nacional extranjero que cuenta con residencia permanente. - Contar con residencia...

www.argentina.gob.ar

(see #4 for the requirements for No-MERCOSUR or Extra-MERCOSUR)

we would contribute far more than someone from Venezuela

nationalism is a thing, and the USA makes it hard for certain nationalities to get visas/residency as well, and although i understand what you mean, there is also the other side of the argument - what do Argentines want for their immigration policy? i agree that you and i might be bringing peaceful travel, Dollars, skills, and business development (and my dog is literally the best...you're all welcome!), but also the racism and crime and overall culture might not be appealing for some people who like their Argentina the way it is. i personally don't want Californians moving to my old state of Arizona, because they bring a lot of stupid policies with them. and i would vote against fundamentalist Islamist jihadists from Sunni areas coming to the USA and not assimilating...these things are not going to be appealing to me, no matter how much oil money they bring.

people just overstay here.

as mentioned in other threads/pages, the existing system isn't as lax as it seemed, and certainly isn't guaranteed to remain; i would recommend to any of my friends to get legit residency rather than play the 'game' - especially if you intend to apply for citizenship down the road. i want to go in front of the Judge with a clean 'record' of assimilating and following the letter of the law (which says it's illegal to overstay, otherwise there would be no point in a 90-day Visa).

I doubt they will care about Americans moving here.

sure, we just need to do it legally. which is hard because not everyone qualifies, and the ways of 'making yourself qualify' cost hundreds or thousands of dollars, and lots of time in trámites and such.

It isn't that difficult.

i feel you, and i know i can just do the wire transfer route and get physical dollars for the buyer (95% have insisted physical dollars so far - billetes dólares).

part of my interest in Argentina is to learn more about Crypto, use it to live, and overall just see how the new government changes or doesn't change things. if i find the perfect apartment for a good deal, i'm not going to burn bridges and refuse to use a financiera/Cueva to get the deal done; but if i can find a fellow nerd who wants to help contribute to the ubiquity of Crypto, i'd like to!

a quick 2-minute video from Roger Ver on why Bitcoin is anti-war:

6 mins different speaker:

(some profanity)

every use of Blockchain/crypto spreads its utility, and gives me a chance to learn and show how easy crypto/Bitcoin is. here's an example of Vehicle Titles becoming adapted onto a blockchain for storage and security, instead of just a piece of paper with electronic record:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1818316539093004563

and for anyone who has crypto and likes the service BitPay.com you can now (in more and more US states) pay-off almost any loan or bill or debt:

Paying Your Auto Loans with Bitcoin [Full Guide] | BitPay

BitPay Bill Pay offers the convenience to handle monthly car loan payments in crypto directly to financial institutions using nearly any wallet and with a selection of top cryptocurrencies, available through the BitPay app or directly on our website.

bitpay.com

i will be paying-off my auto loan with this, once my Bitcoin Cash (BCH) spikes up a bit more. kind of cool! you can even pay mortgage payments or the whole loan with Crypto, all using BitPay (1% fee i believe).

overall, i'm ideologically motivated more than financially motivated. just as not voting R or D is a sort of rejection of the Uniparty's duopoly that has ruined the USA and waged wars endlessly around the world (why i'm seeking to never pay US taxes again), not using Dollars is a way to opt-out of the evil empire's money scheme. will my choices change and cause revolution? no, but i like to think when i'm 120 years old i'll be proud to have tried to improve the system 0.00000001% of the way. as Netanyahu is using USA Dollars and weapons to bomb civilians in Beirut Lebanon as we speak right now 30Jul2024, i can't help but research how i can opt-out of the imperial system even more :/

 

[earlyretirement]

this will be the theme for your stay, from gyms to realtors to most things. 80% of Argentines don't seem to really 'work' in the USA hustle sense. the other 20% are absolutely professional and work their asses off, and usually have international business/travel as well. once i find hard-working folks, i try to pay them and hire them continually. the same happens with some folks i know in eastern Arizona, who rent property on Airbnb/VRBO - no one there wants to work, so sometimes they don't have people to clean their rental property.

Very true about that 80%/20% rule that you mention. Most people in Argentina just don't have that sense of hard work and getting back to the client quickly. It's getting better to when I first moved there but even today it is shockingly bad. I still mostly work with the same tight knit hardworking group of people from 22 years ago.

nationalism is a thing, and the USA makes it hard for certain nationalities to get visas/residency as well, and although i understand what you mean, there is also the other side of the argument - what do Argentines want for their immigration policy? i agree that you and i might be bringing peaceful travel, Dollars, skills, and business development (and my dog is literally the best...you're all welcome!), but also the racism and crime and overall culture might not be appealing for some people who like their Argentina the way it is. i personally don't want Californians moving to my old state of Arizona, because they bring a lot of stupid policies with them. and i would vote against fundamentalist Islamist jihadists from Sunni areas coming to the USA and not assimilating...these things are not going to be appealing to me, no matter how much oil money they bring.

I do think that Argentina would quickly change its tune on their extremely open immigration policy if they saw problematic migration from other countries like you are experiencing all over the EU. Many of these EU nations are going to reach a boiling point.

For the most part, many of these Mercosur residents are hard-working people who aren't afraid of hard work. It's for that reason that I think that most locals don't have a problem with them. I do think that Argentina shouldn't be providing free healthcare and education to all of the Mercosur countries.

as mentioned in other threads/pages, the existing system isn't as lax as it seemed, and certainly isn't guaranteed to remain; i would recommend to any of my friends to get legit residency rather than play the 'game' - especially if you intend to apply for citizenship down the road. i want to go in front of the Judge with a clean 'record' of assimilating and following the letter of the law (which says it's illegal to overstay, otherwise there would be no point in a 90-day Visa).

I totally agree if your long-term goal is to legally live in Argentina and possibly someday get Citizenship without issues then it makes sense to do things legally. It does take time and money to go through that process but it is a heck a lot cheaper to do it in Argentina vs. countries like USA. In the USA it's not easy or cheap either.

 

[Tim Joe]

Thank you @StatusNomadicus for the updates. Crossing my fingers that you are successful with this.

 

[RN in BA]

how many times are you going to mention prices doubling and tripling? you're not even here, dude.

I am not a dude. I'm female. No, I don't live there but I have many local friends there and I talk to them daily on Whatsapp. Just while I was there until now many things have definitely gone up at least 2X. I worked and volunteered in a hospital and unless you have been living under a rock, prices have definitely gone up from before this President has been elected. Don't get me wrong. I am a fan of this new President but you can't say prices haven't gone up.

My friends are paying over 200% more on their healthcare premiums, their rents, their utility bills, their HOA fees and too many other things.

Everyone talks about things being double of just last year. I am not sure how you can even argue with that. I am not saying everything but on many expenses things have doubled. Are you trying to imply @StatusNomadicus there is no inflation?

 

[StatusNomadicus]

Argentina shouldn't be providing free healthcare and education to all of the Mercosur countries

it's as unsustainable as the USA's amnesty for illegal border criminals, and hospitals' requirement to treat patients even if they don't have money or legal status. how to fix it? no one knows, but allowing millions in without fingerprints and ID doesn't sound smart to me (and i think the US border state residents agree)

@BowTiedMara talked about the parasitic effects of foreign students getting subsidized (AKA our tax dollars) university in Argentina:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750628252668907923

@RN in BA i know your gender, i know your life story, we were all reading your trip report and giving our perspectives on your experience; 'dude' isn't exclusive to males, but it is used in this case as a form of exasperation...i've been here pre-Milei and have documented a ton. groceries and rent are overwhelmingly the same in the past 8 months in Dollars. of course OPTIONAL things like expensive health care may have gone up, due to a transition phase between tax-subsidized nonsense and still-existing monopolies and barriers to entry in the industry. but those people are CHOOSING to pay for their new plan; why not hire a new company? why not set-up an independent Health Savings Account? it would be like insisting on buying a brand of bread that you have been eating for years, continuing to buy it when its price goes up, then getting mad that 'the price of bread is higher' - dude, just go buy the other brand!

utility bills may have tripled for some people, sure. they were paying like $3 USD a month for gas use and $20 for electricity ahahahha. now people in Argentina can't just leave windows and doors open and crank the A/C or Heat ... welcome to reality 😉 the real question is - will the wasteful people continue to waste energy and have poor insulation in their apartments and houses? i would be no, and so the rich will continue to spend lavishly while the overwhelming majority adjusts their use to be more efficient. in another example, if i was getting subsidized nafta/gasoline for years and thus would just not care about having my gas-guzzling truck idling for hours all the time, when my subsidies go away i can choose to continue to use it that much, but it would be silly to shout about MY GAS BILLS ARE SO HIGH NOW

cost of living complaints can't include optional things, and against the majority opinion here, health insurance is absolutely optional and probably unnecessary for anyone under 70 with no tragic events in their life (90% of people don't need to be taking 7 medications a day; they could just exercise 15 minutes and eat whole foods and stop smoking and drinking and drugs). HOA fees are a choice, as well. why don't they protest and take over the HOA leadership? why did they buy property in an HOA, knowing that fees can go up at any time? these are all choices, and poor ones. rents are absolutely not going up, and whatever buddies you have in Argentina are full of sh*t. get on Airbnb and explore a world of $300 USD/month apartments and very affordable houses. i found small houses near the city for $400-600 USD (25% cheaper if you pay cash). whose rent is going up, exactly?

Salta studio for 300 USD paying credit card on Airbnb: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/585487090792167657

there are thousands of those listings. if your friends choose to live in trendy Palermo neighborhoods for triple the rent price, that's their choice. but to say rent is going up is laughable, when i have been paying 1-3 months rent in 3 provinces for 8 months in Argentina, and i know the prices on Airbnb very well (i am looking at buying a small property to rent-out for part of the year). if you choose to go stay at one of @earlyretirement's fantastic luxury suites, great! but if you walk past hundreds of affordable places that are in walking-distance in a huge beautiful safe city, that's your choice, and has nothing to do with the cost of living for most people. @BowTiedMara showed prices in CABA 30Jan2023, exactly 6 months ago:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752499884236607616

soooooo, where's the huge cost increase, exactly? the deletion of the rental law means that more owners aren't just letting their properties sit vacant (because it was risky to let peronists in for a year if they just stop paying, and the owners aren't allowed to change rent price, etc.) - @BuySellBA talked about the previous law in Oct2023:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718094852414742914

are you referencing BuySellBA's article here? https://buysellba.com/news-/-media/f/record-rent-hikes-in-august

...because the people who are agreeing to pay the new prices are choosing to live somewhere more expensive.

Rental unit in Palermo · ★4.89 · 2 bedrooms · 3 beds · 1.5 baths

Experience Palermo Hollywood

www.airbnb.com

13Nov-11Dec $131 USD total using credit card on airbnb, good reviews, short walk to La Mar restaurant that so many people love.

there, i just hooked you up for a trip to CABA in perfect weather, for cheaper than some stuff in Thailand!

and with all these gripes about costs, what about the myriad decreases in my life? well, for one, i already don't have to pay 1.5% on property, so there's 1000-3000 bucks that i don't have to pay when buying. nice!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1810466825035301053

you want to talk about price increases? bruh, the USA and EU are becoming insanely-unlivable. what are you paying for gas where you're at? fruits/veggies/meat/healthy food? why not complain about that? inflation is literally worldwide, so yes of course Argentina has some; you're implying it's unique to here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1814582140413026549

if you actually want to learn, listen to people living here and then research what they say. i bet 95% of the whining can be debunked with a quick Airbnb search or a Google Maps menu check. and consider who is crying about cost of living - Peronists who are butt-hurt that they don't get paid to live lavishly with guaranteed ñoqui income that they collect monthly? yeah man, of course they are going to post on social media that WE ARE SUFFERING. lol, the only suffering is that they can't just sit on their ass and get paid anymore, and need to actually work a real job like the rest of the non-communist world. sucks to have reality hit them, i guess.

remember the fake news about SUBTE PRICES ARE SKYROCKETING, HOW CAN I GET MY SICK KID TO THE HOSPITAL????!!!!!1111ONE

lol, here is a pre-Milei price increase. crazy, right?

x.com

x.com

how about the fact that my Belgrano subte didn't work the entire time because the commies couldn't get it fixed for months? my cost of living was way higher having to Uber (but i chose to just walk more).

x.com

x.com

just keep in mind who is telling you things, and what their motives/ideologies are. the USA where you're at right now has inflation and is unlivable, which is why you're working a job you hate and living with mom. it doesn't have to be this way. you could get a digital nomad job reviewing medical charts, make $15/hour, and live a very comfy life in a great city like CABA or Mendoza. no need to force living in the US if you don't want to; the world is massive and not all of it is in decline 🙂

 

[Betsy Ross]

Peronists are always complaining about something in Argentina. Even if the economy were to completely improve and inflation down, they would be complaining about the good old days under CFK and how it was better. Such is life for them. Always complaining.

 

[Digital Nomad]

@StatusNomadicus I read this article this morning and thought of you. Just sounds like a crap shoot on many things here.

https://buenosairesherald.com/argentina-101/need-to-open-up-a-bank-account-in-argentina-without-a-dni-heres-how

 

[Jenn]

Mendoza Province Migraciones has a totally different take than Cordoba - whereas in Cordoba Province Apr2024 the supervisor was adamant about my monthly Savings Account in the USA giving FIXED income (so that i started with a Trust and then ended up setting-up automatic payments monthly for more than the 5x-salary amount in Dollars), the Mendoza Province folks told me recently that i just needed to deposit about $10,000 USD at the Official rate in Pesos to my Banco Nacional savings account, and then i'd get a DNI and 1-year temporary residency about 3 months later. whaaaaaat???

At least it sounds like you were able to open up a bank account. Did you open it up at the Banco de la Nacion? Was it difficult?

 

[enbits]

What I am puzzled at is why do they make it so easy for people of other Mercosur nations to get residency here and get their DNIs and permanent residency and so difficult for people from first world countries? Doesn't make sense to me when we would contribute far more than someone from Venezuela. The process could definitely be streamlined. I have several friends from Colombia, Brazil and Venezuela and moved to Argentina and relatively simple for them from Day 1. This makes NO sense to me.

There's a "Mercosur" 2 years visa that after it ends you can apply for residency and after 5 years, citizenship so this is a benefit obtained from being from a Mercosur member country. AFAIK Argentina's citizenship is quite easy to get by just staying 2 years and apply for it.

When it comes to visas by money I don't think nationality matters at all, example: someone could be from Venezuela or Argentina...lets say Marcos Galperin one of the founders of MercadoLibre hey can pay 1 million dollars and get a Golden Visa from almost anywhere in the world.

 

[enbits]

I am not a dude. I'm female. No, I don't live there but I have many local friends there and I talk to them daily on Whatsapp. Just while I was there until now many things have definitely gone up at least 2X. I worked and volunteered in a hospital and unless you have been living under a rock, prices have definitely gone up from before this President has been elected. Don't get me wrong. I am a fan of this new President but you can't say prices haven't gone up.

My friends are paying over 200% more on their healthcare premiums, their rents, their utility bills, their HOA fees and too many other things.

Everyone talks about things being double of just last year. I am not sure how you can even argue with that. I am not saying everything but on many expenses things have doubled. Are you trying to imply @StatusNomadicus there is no inflation?

Things in Argentina were extremely cheap so now prices are bumpy and adapting to the prices from the surrounding Latam countries. Some prices were already higher for decades like electronics and clothing this is due to heavy taxation on imported goods.

Once the Impuesto Pais is removed on December some things will get cheaper, overtime technology goods and imported goods in general will get cheaper and groceries and day to day stuff will be at the same level of neighbouring countries.

This problem was originally caused by the 'Cepo Cambiario' plus having taxes subsidized by ~80%. It's hard for people to understand but we were walking Venezuela's path with these types of policies.

 

[Jenn]

Things in Argentina were extremely cheap so now prices are bumpy and adapting to the prices from the surrounding Latam countries. Some prices were already higher for decades like electronics and clothing this is due to heavy taxation on imported goods.

Once the Impuesto Pais is removed on December some things will get cheaper, overtime technology goods and imported goods in general will get cheaper and groceries and day to day stuff will be at the same level of neighbouring countries.

This problem was originally caused by the 'Cepo Cambiario' plus having taxes subsidized by ~80%. It's hard for people to understand but we were walking Venezuela's path with these types of policies.

I am not a dude. I'm female. No, I don't live there but I have many local friends there and I talk to them daily on Whatsapp. Just while I was there until now many things have definitely gone up at least 2X. I worked and volunteered in a hospital and unless you have been living under a rock, prices have definitely gone up from before this President has been elected. Don't get me wrong. I am a fan of this new President but you can't say prices haven't gone up.

My friends are paying over 200% more on their healthcare premiums, their rents, their utility bills, their HOA fees and too many other things.

Everyone talks about things being double of just last year. I am not sure how you can even argue with that. I am not saying everything but on many expenses things have doubled. Are you trying to imply @StatusNomadicus there is no inflation?

My friends there said prices definitely have at least doubled since last year when they were cheap. I even read that on all the blogs and from popular posters on X that all say it's more than double on many items from last year's bargains. I'm not trying to argue it's not still a good deal compared to US prices but to argue prices haven't gone up on many cost of living items probably isn't true. My friends all say dining out at restaurants was half the price or less than they are now.

I have no stake in this game at all and I haven't even visited yet. 2 tickets and both cancelled for mosquito/Dengue issues and then not wanting to come during winter. But @RN in BA my friends tell me you are correct. Even if you don't own or buy a place my friend that is renting long term the owner wouldn't rent it to her without her paying the monthly hoa fee. From what I'm told almost all properties are apartments and they all have monthly condo fees.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

crap shoot on many things here. https://buenosairesherald.com/argen...-account-in-argentina-without-a-dni-heres-how

Savings Account opening with Banco Nacion was fairly easy for my and my lady, following the post here: https://www.expatsba.com/threads/i-...y-passport-no-dni-or-precaria-heres-how.1247/

patience, sure, but definitely possible to have a Pesos account with a matching MasterCard debit card with BNA as of Jun2024. i can walk anyone through the process...happy to help @Digital Nomad if you're still needing it (i did it in Alto Alberdi, Cordoba province). there is NOT a lot of interest. after a month of having 1.2 million pesos in an account, the amount only increased 200 pesos. soooo, not the 40% interest i've heard. more like 100th of a percent? not sure, but essentially nothing, and you lose to peso inflation daily.

Was it difficult?

nope, the guy Hector in Cordoba knew the process and i had my debit card within 2 weeks. even getting a CDI number at AFIP took like 90 minutes start to finish (of course the gov't makes it easy to register you as a foreign taxpayer!). that being said, the BNA locations/sucursales aren't as connected as i thought; one in Mendoza couldn't see documents from Cordoba, and they were unable to contact that Cordoba branch and order a new debit card or do much at all for me. so, enroll at the one you think you'll be close to? i move too much to be able to do this 😛

AFAIK Argentina's citizenship is quite easy to get by just staying 2 years and apply for it.

much more to the process, otherwise dozens of us wouldn't be scraping the Web for details for years on multiple forums/sites 🙂 there are many competing arguments for how the process works, without really any reports of who has actually done it. even people with marriage to an Argentine have waited years: https://www.expatsba.com/threads/citizenship.1208/post-7130

many Unknowns exist:

1. do the 2 years have to be legal? or can someone fly in, get a 90-day tourist visa, disappear, then at day 730 walk into a courtroom to see a federal judge? what if the judge says the 2 years have to be 2 years of DNI-possessing legal residency? what if that judge views the 2-year overstay as illegal?

2. the spanish-fluency requirement is supposedly gone now, but what other factors are required in the text of the law, but also the minds of the judges? perhaps some judges would see a tourist with no job or property or family as not a 'real argentine' and could find some legal reason to delay the case and make it de-facto impossible.

3. do lawyers have backdoor deals to be able to charge 2k-6k USD for citizenship representation? (looking at Rubilar @Bajo_cero2, specifically, who claims to represent illegal Russians and Chinese with 'roman serf law racism' case law word-salad). can the process be done without legal representation, in actuality?

4. can you apply for an appointment at 2 years, or at 1 year, knowing the courts are backed-up a year or more?

5. if you have Precarias and then 1-year Temporary Residencies for 2 years, can you really leave the country and use 7 months out of a calendar year to be in Argentina, counting toward the 2 years? Rubilar says 7 months minimum per year in Argentina. other lawyers say 'as much as possible because it makes it seem like you actually want to live here' (for Rentista folks, for instance, they might need to fly to their property in the USA/etc. and do maintenance, which could take a couple months, which seems like a legit reason for a Rentier to leave, but the law is written poorly and no one knows for certain).

6. what do you do if you have a DNI finally, had 2 years of Temporary Residency, apply for citizenship, but don't end up qualifying for Permanent Residency between those 2 things? would you be technically 'illegal' while you waited to see the judge, or is there some kind of Judicial-Precaria paper that gives you the right to live in the interim? can you fly out and back in on that paper if it exists?

these are just questions i will be answering in the next year @enbits...there are many more 😉

overtime technology goods and imported goods in general will get cheaper and groceries and day to day stuff will be at the same level of neighbouring countries.

i think so; people overthink the basics. if you overlay the national government's choices onto your personal finances, it's basic economics to understand that restricting trade, using tariffs/etc., and printing Pesos will of course cause all these issues. look how stable prices are already! i've been tracking a can of tuna at Carrefour and it was like 5000 Pesos a few months ago, then 3000, and now i've personally bought tuna cans for 1,791 Pesos in Cordoba and Mendoza both, at least since Apr2024. that's a long time of $1.50 USD tuna, but in Nov2023 when i moved to Buenos Aires tuna was SO EXPENSIVE, like $5 USD a can or something crazy. Peronists will make an excuse why, but Bife de Chorizo has been 9000/kg for months, milk has been 900-1200/liter for months, etc. - i just bought a kilogram of sugar for less than 900 pesos. that's insanely low! i can bake for 2 months with that, and it was like 70 cents USD or something on a credit card

i don't like Milei's worship of Netanyahu and Trump, nor his Zionism/religiosity and 100%-anti-abortion stance, but he got hired as an Economist, and he brought some superstitious baggage with him, like all us humans have

my goal is to buy a place now that the extra 1.3% real estate Stamp Tax is gone (Jun2024), buy a car once the taxes are low and the license plate new law comes in (this year?), and start buying house stuff once the Dec2024 taxes/tariffs/import nonsense is reduced. also, if Argentina allows for local nuclear power plants, energy could be SO CHEAP, and if they allow real private development of the oil/gas, gasoline/diesel could be cents per liter instead of 1000 Pesos per liter. no reason why a country full of oil and cows has expensive milk and gas/nafta.

to argue prices haven't gone up on many cost of living items probably isn't true.

it's easy enough to research yourself and post links here. i'll be waiting for whoever wants to show me necessities are super expensive now, compared to a time in the past. i do like to argue, but am open to new evidence. my gripe is that someone who was here for a short time (@RN in BA) and someone who has never been (@Jenn) - you guys are listening to peronists or SteakBros about price stability in Dollars, rather than people here who live full-time? specifically: what is doubled/tripled in USD, from what date to what date, and what area/store?

the HOA story is weird; there are hundreds of apartments on Airbnb, you can rent for any amount of time. why bother with someone that you don't like their HOA policy? good owners like earlyretirement just set the price with everything included and make it easy on the renter. and he makes BANK, with ultra-nice apartments.

@Jenn do your own research and don't trust people making big claims. i've provided more than enough links for groceries and apartments over the past months on this forum; i'm paying $600 USD for a decent ground-floor apartment on Airbnb with a SuperHost, with 2 beds/1 bath and a patio, one block from the main hip street Aristides (Mendoza's equivalent of Av. Juan Bautista Justo in CABA). if i were a local i could probably pay 400 USD for something even better, but i was in a hurry after procrastinating the booking

the "winter" is a joke - i was tanning in June some days, and i've been running with a regular long-sleeve shirt all of July. this week is 34F-69F and sunny - this in Phoenix Arizona "winter" ahahaha. everyone is still out and about at the park. best part of the "cold"? zero bugs.

 

[GraceH]

Savings Account opening with Banco Nacion was fairly easy for my and my lady, following the post here: https://www.expatsba.com/threads/i-...y-passport-no-dni-or-precaria-heres-how.1247/

patience, sure, but definitely possible to have a Pesos account with a matching MasterCard debit card with BNA as of Jun2024. i can walk anyone through the process...happy to help @Digital Nomad if you're still needing it (i did it in Alto Alberdi, Cordoba province). there is NOT a lot of interest. after a month of having 1.2 million pesos in an account, the amount only increased 200 pesos. soooo, not the 40% interest i've heard. more like 100th of a percent? not sure, but essentially nothing, and you lose to peso inflation daily.


nope, the guy Hector in Cordoba knew the process and i had my debit card within 2 weeks. even getting a CDI number at AFIP took like 90 minutes start to finish (of course the gov't makes it easy to register you as a foreign taxpayer!). that being said, the BNA locations/sucursales aren't as connected as i thought; one in Mendoza couldn't see documents from Cordoba, and they were unable to contact that Cordoba branch and order a new debit card or do much at all for me. so, enroll at the one you think you'll be close to? i move too much to be able to do this 😛


much more to the process, otherwise dozens of us wouldn't be scraping the Web for details for years on multiple forums/sites 🙂 there are many competing arguments for how the process works, without really any reports of who has actually done it. even people with marriage to an Argentine have waited years: https://www.expatsba.com/threads/citizenship.1208/post-7130

many Unknowns exist:

1. do the 2 years have to be legal? or can someone fly in, get a 90-day tourist visa, disappear, then at day 730 walk into a courtroom to see a federal judge? what if the judge says the 2 years have to be 2 years of DNI-possessing legal residency? what if that judge views the 2-year overstay as illegal?

2. the spanish-fluency requirement is supposedly gone now, but what other factors are required in the text of the law, but also the minds of the judges? perhaps some judges would see a tourist with no job or property or family as not a 'real argentine' and could find some legal reason to delay the case and make it de-facto impossible.

3. do lawyers have backdoor deals to be able to charge 2k-6k USD for citizenship representation? (looking at Rubilar @Bajo_cero2, specifically, who claims to represent illegal Russians and Chinese with 'roman serf law racism' case law word-salad). can the process be done without legal representation, in actuality?

4. can you apply for an appointment at 2 years, or at 1 year, knowing the courts are backed-up a year or more?

5. if you have Precarias and then 1-year Temporary Residencies for 2 years, can you really leave the country and use 7 months out of a calendar year to be in Argentina, counting toward the 2 years? Rubilar says 7 months minimum per year in Argentina. other lawyers say 'as much as possible because it makes it seem like you actually want to live here' (for Rentista folks, for instance, they might need to fly to their property in the USA/etc. and do maintenance, which could take a couple months, which seems like a legit reason for a Rentier to leave, but the law is written poorly and no one knows for certain).

6. what do you do if you have a DNI finally, had 2 years of Temporary Residency, apply for citizenship, but don't end up qualifying for Permanent Residency between those 2 things? would you be technically 'illegal' while you waited to see the judge, or is there some kind of Judicial-Precaria paper that gives you the right to live in the interim? can you fly out and back in on that paper if it exists?

these are just questions i will be answering in the next year @enbits...there are many more 😉


i think so; people overthink the basics. if you overlay the national government's choices onto your personal finances, it's basic economics to understand that restricting trade, using tariffs/etc., and printing Pesos will of course cause all these issues. look how stable prices are already! i've been tracking a can of tuna at Carrefour and it was like 5000 Pesos a few months ago, then 3000, and now i've personally bought tuna cans for 1,791 Pesos in Cordoba and Mendoza both, at least since Apr2024. that's a long time of $1.50 USD tuna, but in Nov2023 when i moved to Buenos Aires tuna was SO EXPENSIVE, like $5 USD a can or something crazy. Peronists will make an excuse why, but Bife de Chorizo has been 9000/kg for months, milk has been 900-1200/liter for months, etc. - i just bought a kilogram of sugar for less than 900 pesos. that's insanely low! i can bake for 2 months with that, and it was like 70 cents USD or something on a credit card

i don't like Milei's worship of Netanyahu and Trump, nor his Zionism/religiosity and 100%-anti-abortion stance, but he got hired as an Economist, and he brought some superstitious baggage with him, like all us humans have

my goal is to buy a place now that the extra 1.3% real estate Stamp Tax is gone (Jun2024), buy a car once the taxes are low and the license plate new law comes in (this year?), and start buying house stuff once the Dec2024 taxes/tariffs/import nonsense is reduced. also, if Argentina allows for local nuclear power plants, energy could be SO CHEAP, and if they allow real private development of the oil/gas, gasoline/diesel could be cents per liter instead of 1000 Pesos per liter. no reason why a country full of oil and cows has expensive milk and gas/nafta.


it's easy enough to research yourself and post links here. i'll be waiting for whoever wants to show me necessities are super expensive now, compared to a time in the past. i do like to argue, but am open to new evidence. my gripe is that someone who was here for a short time (@RN in BA) and someone who has never been (@Jenn) - you guys are listening to peronists or SteakBros about price stability in Dollars, rather than people here who live full-time? specifically: what is doubled/tripled in USD, from what date to what date, and what area/store?

the HOA story is weird; there are hundreds of apartments on Airbnb, you can rent for any amount of time. why bother with someone that you don't like their HOA policy? good owners like earlyretirement just set the price with everything included and make it easy on the renter. and he makes BANK, with ultra-nice apartments.

@Jenn do your own research and don't trust people making big claims. i've provided more than enough links for groceries and apartments over the past months on this forum; i'm paying $600 USD for a decent ground-floor apartment on Airbnb with a SuperHost, with 2 beds/1 bath and a patio, one block from the main hip street Aristides (Mendoza's equivalent of Av. Juan Bautista Justo in CABA). if i were a local i could probably pay 400 USD for something even better, but i was in a hurry after procrastinating the booking

the "winter" is a joke - i was tanning in June some days, and i've been running with a regular long-sleeve shirt all of July. this week is 34F-69F and sunny - this in Phoenix Arizona "winter" ahahaha. everyone is still out and about at the park. best part of the "cold"? zero bugs.

Thank you @StatusNomadicus! Your posts are detailed and really seem unbiased and based on reality. I have been here several months and prices have stabilized. As you said there were times when tuna was impossible to find or people were price gouging. Hopefully that is over with.

Things change so quickly so of course that could happen again. My life here costs about a third what I spend in the States.

 

[Jenn]

nope, the guy Hector in Cordoba knew the process and i had my debit card within 2 weeks. even getting a CDI number at AFIP took like 90 minutes start to finish (of course the gov't makes it easy to register you as a foreign taxpayer!). that being said, the BNA locations/sucursales aren't as connected as i thought; one in Mendoza couldn't see documents from Cordoba, and they were unable to contact that Cordoba branch and order a new debit card or do much at all for me. so, enroll at the one you think you'll be close to? i move too much to be able to do this

Big thanks for the info.

it's easy enough to research yourself and post links here. i'll be waiting for whoever wants to show me necessities are super expensive now, compared to a time in the past. i do like to argue, but am open to new evidence. my gripe is that someone who was here for a short time (@RN in BA) and someone who has never been (@Jenn) - you guys are listening to peronists or SteakBros about price stability in Dollars, rather than people here who live full-time? specifically: what is doubled/tripled in USD, from what date to what date, and what area/store?

You're right on all points. I am just listening to my friend on the ground but she sounds like her lifestyle is much different than yours. She is dining out a lot at pricey places. But there are posters on Twitter like Jordan and BowtiedMara that have posted extensively how prices are 2 X of what they were last year. I'm not arguing with you at all. You posted detailed information.

Very true about the winter. I read some posts and got DM from some posters like Sunny that warned against coming in winter but I've been looking at the weather and it looks mild. BTW, does anyone know what happened to Sunny? I see she is gone now. Oh well.

 

[Betsy Ross]

A lot of conflicting info but much might come down to what one person considers essential and another does not. No long-term private health insurance for one person that may consider it nonessential is an absolute necessity to others that might have health conditions. Yet other things like monthly condo fees are a big part of life for many people that rent or own in Argentina. While it's true that you could purposely go out and look for different rentals and move around. Many people that are here long-term don't want to be an a transient stage of constantly moving around. That is not fun. And it is going more towards the norm on long term rentals to stick the renter with rent + monthly fees. There has been a big inflation in monthly hoa fees. There are several threads on that issue.

Medical premiums have skyrocketed. Contrary to the government saying people would be reimbursed or rates would go back to previous prices, they have not. Utility rates have also gone up significantly. I have some acquaintances with large properties that are shocked with $400 US dollar equivalent bills now. Not arguing if rates shouldn't have gone up or not as the rates were very cheap. But just speaking to the inflation aspect of the bill they are paying.

Still a great deal here and I am here for the long haul.

 

[enbits]

What I am puzzled at is why do they make it so easy for people of other Mercosur nations to get residency here and get their DNIs and permanent residency and so difficult for people from first world countries? Doesn't make sense to me when we would contribute far more than someone from Venezuela. The process could definitely be streamlined. I have several friends from Colombia, Brazil and Venezuela and moved to Argentina and relatively simple for them from Day 1. This makes NO sense to me.

Also specifically for US lets not forget that us Argentinians for going to the states as a tourist need to apply for a visa, some friends of mine and myself got rejected for no specific reason. And the amount of things you have to do to apply for it makes you don't wanna try again so maybe there's a hidden reciprocity going on here, I guess the better the relationships between the countries, the easier is to get a visa.

In 2017 Macri made the first step by removing the reciprocity fee for US travelers. But then Trump got elected in the states and Alberto Frenandez in Argentina so the relationships cooled off. Maybe now with Milei-Trump things will make some progress?

Article excerpt:

That’s right – as of March 24, 2016, US visitors to Argentina no longer have to pay the reciprocity fee. No word yet on whether or not those who paid it for future travel will get it refunded (don’t hold your breath).

Argentina is hoping for the US to grant their citizens unrestricted travel without the need for a visa too, but that is a little ways off. At the moment, the US has agreed to waive the interview requirement for those Argentines under 16 or over 65. Not much, but it’s a start!

 

[Billy Goat]

Also specifically for US lets not forget that us Argentinians for going to the states as a tourist need to apply for a visa, some friends of mine and myself got rejected for no specific reason. And the amount of things you have to do to apply for it makes you don't wanna try again so maybe there's a hidden reciprocity going on here, I guess the better the relationships between the countries, the easier is to get a visa.

In 2017 Macri made the first step by removing the reciprocity fee for US travelers. But then Trump got elected in the states and Alberto Frenandez in Argentina so the relationships cooled off. Maybe now with Milei-Trump things will make some progress?

Article excerpt:

That fee for Americans entering Argentina was silly. Argentina definitely needs tourist income so that was not smart. Good they got rid of it. I would guess that if Argentina continues on with their progress and if Trump gets elected, within 2 years they will probably remove restrictions for Argentines to get a visa to go to the U.S.A.